OT: Keyontae Johnson UF | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT: Keyontae Johnson UF

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UCTitleTown said:
I dont believe that coke is the drug of choice for today's young people.
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I realize that. And all my speculation falls in the spectrum between being a jackass and somehow trying to make a point.

None of us have any information on his pre-existing health nor do we have any info on what doctors have found since yesterday. But we have a bunch of people posting on here speculating.
 
JohnFSilver said:
Well, life insurance is monetary. It is a fiancial contract.

health insurance is medical care.
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Oh...so, with health care, there are no financial contracts or implications? (I did not know that, even after having been in the biz for more than 25 years...thanks!) :rolleyes:
 
billybud said:
As late as November 1....The BE hadn't set protocols....can not find any for post Covid heart review...might be...just can not find it on web.
Big East COVID-19 protocols remain a work in progress
www.theuconnblog.com

Big East COVID-19 protocols remain a work in progress

Commissioner Val Ackerman says the conference has yet to set its COVID-19 testing and quarantine guidelines.
www.theuconnblog.com www.theuconnblog.com
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I remember Hurley saying in a recent interview earlier this week that anyone that tested positive had to go through cardiac testing, so I assume at minimum UConn is on the same page as SEC.
 
Why does every moment of our life have to be tied to COVID, maybe K.J. collapsed just like so many athletes before him did, which COVID wasn’t even here yet.

I don’t really understand our passion as a society to try to tie everything & anything to COVID?
 
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RayRay said:
I remember Hurley saying in a recent interview earlier this week that anyone that tested positive had to go through cardiac testing, so I assume at minimum UConn is on the same page as SEC.
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Should be along the SEC, ACC, PAC....I just can't find a web reference....but I can not open Courant articles...
 
EBonz30 said:
Why does every moment of our life have to be tied to COVID, maybe K.J. collapsed just like so many athletes before him did, which COVID wasn’t even here yet.

I don’t really understand our passion as a society to try to tie everything & anything to COVID?
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Because, uh, *gestures wildly at everything*

I get it though. Yeah, of course not everything is related to covid. Of course there’s a good chance this tragedy isn’t related to covid. The fact that he did have covid this year, though, makes it entirely appropriate to discuss it and to discuss whether or not programs, conferences, and the NCAA are doing everything they can to protect student athletes.

It’s exhausting, I agree, but reality is indiscriminate to our exhaustion.
 
Jay-Bone said:
Who is using him as a pawn?
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Another poster noted that he has practically been screaming about long term effects of SARS-CoV-2 infection, and noted that everything should be shut down if this young man's apparent cardiovascular issue was caused by Covid-19.
People are going to want to to use this young man's tragedy to support their desire for . . . whatever they think is correct.

Jay-Bone said:
Seems like you're sensationalizing this not being covid related more so than those speculating a possible link.
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Well this is exactly the point. This may be SARS-CoV-2 related, but all the science we have to date says, very unlikely. That's not sensation. That's just what the science is telling us. The sensation is the Penn State doc falsely announcing numbers, the German study having to retract faulty numbers, and the overboard reaction to every morsel of news that runs across the screen.

Jay-Bone said:
Do you have scientific evidence there aren't lasting effects?
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That's not how it typically works, but thanks for the smile this morning. If you believe that, in order to hold a basic belief true, you must first provide "evidence that there aren't," then be super sure not to take any of the mRNA vaccines that they are rolling out - the concept is brand new and the particular naked nucleic acids they are going to be shooting into your shoulder are also new. So we are dealing with a novel vaccine type and novel vaccine within that type, the latter of which has been under development for . . . 270 days.

I'll have no problem taking the vaccine if they make me, or if I have the choice and I choose to, but make no mistake about it . . . we won't know what the long term effects are, if any, until years from now.

Finally, if it's up to me to provide "evidence that there aren't," rather than the person arguing for long term effects to provide "evidence that there are," then you'd almost have to accept any argument that you can't refute with "evidence that there aren't."

For example, the existence of a god or a dozen gods or a sun god. Do you have any evidence that there aren't?

Or Mastodons and Sabre Tooth Tigers in the woods around Storrs, Connecticut. Do you have an evidence that there aren't? I think you do not, sir.

And I'm not advocating for any position. I'm advocating for the science. If a study was produced that showed that a SARS-CoV-2 infection was the primary or substantial cause of a young, healthy athlete's death, you can mark it down that I'll be the first one calling for the season to end.
 
BParkDog said:
It was a Penn State's director of athletic medicine, Dr. Wayne Sebastianelli , who presented the original data, publicly, that "30-35% of all Big10 athletes had myocarditis after Covid-19." It was flatly untrue, probably a lie, and later claimed to be "outdated numbers from a preliminary study." Had to eventually own up the published number - which was 15%. We're talking about a worldwide pandemic and this guy, and MD presumably, is casually throwing out numbers. Should have been fired on the spot for negligence, if it was true that he just didn't know that his numbers were dated, or should have been fired for malpractice if he did know. In any event, his lie/misinformation alarmed many people, and is one more example of the hysteria surrounding this virus/illness.

I just, quickly, looked at the Ohio State study - not going to read the original. Conclusion was: "Using CMR imaging, 15% of athletes in the study were shown to possibly have myocarditis."

Again, every researcher out there is looking for something. Using a scan to say that 15% "possibly" have myocarditis is exactly why the pathologists published their study two months later . . . turns out imaging is not definitively reliable, but pulling out the heart and cutting it into sections is.

But you can't make a splash with, "Big10 athletes appear normal after Covid-19." No fame/promotion/publication/funding there.
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Gotcha. The NYT quoted the 15% number and mentioned the Ohio State people (who had some media backlash themselves they tried to spin which I had linked elsewhere in this forum so I thought that was the retraction you meant. My apologies), so I must have missed the original hullabloo. Either way, "possibly 15%" isn't exactly something to ignore, either, and I don't think autopsies of 75 year olds would cause me to dismiss a different data point that was more relevant to my population, even if the autopsies are more rigorous.

It's good to see as @billybud mentions the SEC had policies in place to check the heart. Hopefully they were followed, hopefully myocarditis isn't a huge risk for young athletes testing positive, and obviously more strongly hopefully he recovers completely and can resume his NBA dream.
 
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huskymedic said:
ACC post infection clearance policy in real life (from this past Tuesday):



www.sun-sentinel.com

Miami Hurricanes CB Al Blades Jr. to miss remainder of season with myocarditis

Miami Hurricanes junior cornerback Al Blades Jr. will miss the remainder of the season with myocarditis, he announced Tuesday night. Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle and one of the p…
www.sun-sentinel.com www.sun-sentinel.com
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bvmsports.com

Vanderbilt women’s basketball player Washington becomes face of dangers brought on by COVID-19

After a strong freshmen year, Vanderbilt women’s basketball guard Demi Washington was expected to do big things for the Commodores this season. Now, Washington will be sidelined after a battle with COVID-19 left her with myocarditis that could threaten her health.
bvmsports.com bvmsports.com
 
billybud said:
Each conference has their own rule...the ACC's mirror's the SEC.....specifies that every student-athlete who tests positive will undergo a cardiac evaluation that includes an electrocardiogram, a troponin test and an echocardiogram before a phased return to exercise.
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Should be NCAA wide for all sports they are playing
 
BParkDog said:
Screaming is probably the right word, because there is virtually zero evidence of any meaningful long term effects in young people.
There have been at least 2 studies suggesting potential long term effects from myocarditis in young people. Both were retracted/corrected.

The problem here is very obvious. There is a massive bias among researchers to be the first to publish any novel results concerning SARS-CoV-2 and the impact of Covid-19. That bias led the PennState researchers to publish unscientific, unsupported conclusions that they retracted. Same thing with the German study. Bizarrely, to me, it seems that there are many people who want young people to be affected more than thy are - misery loves company, I guess.

A study published earlier this month in Cardiovascular Pathology examined actual autopsies performed on Covid-19 fatalities. The conclusion? The rate of myocarditis in Covid-19 fatalities, as determined from an actual examination of the heart, and not a scan or troponin assay, is very small, and is, "not the dominant mechanism of cardiac injury."

I've noted this elsewhere - one of the big challenges with SARS-CoV-2 is all the emotion and bizarre cultural polarization it has caused, none of which is based on science.

This young man has suffered an incredible tragedy. We owe it to him, and to decency, to not use him as an unwilling pawn.
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Last sentence totally agree with.

You are incorrect about the German study. Data errors in their original paper reported in JAMA on July 27th were found. The German authors of that study agreed with those data errors and corrected the original JAMA paper which satisfied the concern.

On August 25th a second JAMA paper from the German authors was published indicating they made corrections to the data. They wrote this:

We are pleased to confirm that reanalysis of the data has not led to a change in the main conclusions of the study. As we originally reported, compared with healthy controls and risk factor–matched controls, patients recently recovered from COVID-19 had lower left ventricular ejection fraction, higher left ventricle volume, and elevated values of T1 and T2. However, the corrected findings no longer show higher left ventricular mass in these patients.

You are dismissing a valid scientific paper and it's potential findings. JAMA Cardiology editor Robert Bonow, MD, and deputy editor Clyde Yancy, MD (both Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine, Chicago, IL), also weighed in, issuing a brief letter accompanying the correction. They proceeded with a repeated statistical review—and requested reanalysis and revision by the original investigators—following questions raised after the study’s publication, they write. “A rigorous review has confirmed that the findings as originally reported remain valid.”
 
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BParkDog said:
A study published earlier this month in Cardiovascular Pathology examined actual autopsies performed on Covid-19 fatalities. The conclusion? The rate of myocarditis in Covid-19 fatalities, as determined from an actual examination of the heart, and not a scan or troponin assay, is very small, and is, "not the dominant mechanism of cardiac injury."
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Now this part of the post has some merit.

By definition myocarditis indicates the presence of inflammatory infiltrate with adjacent myocyte injury. They conclude that the autopsy data indicates a low incidence of myocarditis present in autopsies of patients who died from Covid-19. The article reviews autopsy reports and they state histological reports are vastly different and perhaps too subjective. But even at low numbers they believe myocarditis from Covid -19 is important.

From that article: Even a low myocarditis rate of ∼1.4% among fatal cases would still predict hundreds of thousands of worldwide cases of myocarditis in severe COVID-19 due to the enormous numbers of infected individuals. Low rates of myocarditis do not indicate that SARS-CoV-2 individuals are not having cardiovascular problems, but rather those complications are likely due to other stressors such as endothelial cell activation, cytokine storms, or electrolyte imbalances.

They write there appears to be a disconnect between MRI clinical findings and incidences of histological myocarditis. The low incidence of COVID-19 myocarditis across this large series stands in sharp contrast to the reports of COVID-19 survivors having a myocarditis rate of 60% as determined by cardiac MRI. It will be incumbent on our colleagues in radiology to better interpret the meaning of cardiac MRI changes and other study data in light of this low incidence of histopathologic myocarditis.

So how do you rectify MRI observations such as the German study and this review of autopsies. A clue might be this:

In this issue of JAMA Cardiology, Lindner and colleagues4 report on 39 autopsy cases of patients with COVID-19 in whom pneumonia was the clinical cause of death in 35 of 39 (89.7%). While histopathologic evaluation did not meet criteria seen in acute myocarditis, there was evidence of virus present in the heart in 24 of 39 patients (61.5%) with a viral load more than 1000 copies per microgram of RNA in 16 of 24 patients (66.7%). Evidence of active viral replication was also noted. In situ hybridization suggested that the most likely localization of the viral infection was in interstitial cells or macrophages infiltrating the myocardial tissue rather than localization in the myocytes themselves. Further using a panel of 6 proinflammatory genes, the investigators demonstrated increased activity among hearts with evidence of viral infection compared with hearts with no SARS-CoV-2 viral infection detected.4 These new findings provide intriguing evidence that COVID-19 is associated with at least some component of myocardial injury, perhaps as the result of direct viral infection of the heart.
 
fleudslipcon said:
Low rates of myocarditis do not indicate that SARS-CoV-2 individuals are not having cardiovascular problems, but rather those complications are likely due to other stressors such as endothelial cell activation, cytokine storms, or electrolyte imbalances.
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This sentence alone can explain a lot of things. If it's determined his collapse was related to his earlier case of covid, it doesn't have to relate to myocarditis. If your blood vessels have been impacted by covid, that in itself can lead to blood pressure deregulation, which frequently causes cardiovascular problems, and indeed leads people to collapse especially under stress situations. This is why cardiologists and sometimes neurologists are the main doctors who treat post-viral infection syndromes.
 
upstater said:
This sentence alone can explain a lot of things. If it's determined his collapse was related to his earlier case of covid, it doesn't have to relate to myocarditis. If your blood vessels have been impacted by covid, that in itself can lead to blood pressure deregulation, which frequently causes cardiovascular problems, and indeed leads people to collapse especially under stress situations. This is why cardiologists and sometimes neurologists are the main doctors who treat post-viral infection syndromes.
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This certainly is a possible explanation. Another is that viral loads are reaching the heart in sufficient numbers and damaging or interfering with enough myocardial cells to get radiological results that mimic myocarditis.

My concern with this virus is that it might have more capability to reach vital organs than influenza or respiratory viruses. Unfortunately we won't know this until after the fact.

The following study supports your hypothesis. The thing to consider in this BBC article is that the new scanning system they employ may be revealing vascular problems in the lungs as opposed to damage to the lung tissue itself or fluid in the lungs both of which are detectable with normal MRIs.

Covid-19: Lung damage 'identified' in study
 
fleudslipcon said:
The following study supports your hypothesis.
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Study relates to Covid-19 pneumonia, as far as I can tell (can't find peer-reviewed publication). It appears to involve people who were hospitalized with pneumonia related to Covid-19 disease, then released.
If that's the case, then this is likely inapplicable to young, healthy, asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic athletes who did not have pneumonia.
 
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Jay-Bone said:
Who is using him as a pawn? Seems like you're sensationalizing this not being covid related more so than those speculating a possible link. Do you have scientific evidence there aren't lasting effects?

Would you tell his doctor not to consider possible effects, so you can use him as a pawn to grind your axe?

Gathers died from the 2nd time he collapsed 3 weeks after the first collapse. Its a shame we don't take medical conditions more seriously. But he had to play, he was a superstar.

Will you clear this kid to play in 3 weeks because you only have one case of a player dying after collapsing a second time? Florida's fans might get depressed if they don't have a winning season.

I had no idea Scott Atlas was a UConn alum.
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Does your Dr. Atlas comment mean you revere Dr. Fauci's leadership?
 
Yardigan said:
Oh...so, with health care, there are no financial contracts or implications? (I did not know that, even after having been in the biz for more than 25 years...thanks!) :rolleyes:
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The way things are going you won’t be able to get auto insurance with a pre-existing health issue.
 
Remote learning, hybrid models, smaller class sizes - a lot transmitted in schools. Early season numbers for vaccinations against the flu were double what they were last year at the same time.

'New data from the health IT firm IQVIA finds that 23.5 million people got the flu shot from Aug. 7 through Oct. 2, compared with 12.6 million during the same timeframe in 2019.'
 
Johnson had help from the start....as he went down, the Florida trainers rushed out...they then waved FSU's trainers over...the paramedics came in from the NW corner of the stadium.....an FSU fan who is a cardiologist came out of the stands and assisted...Johnson was put on a gurney and taken to Tallahassee Memorial...the FSU fan/cardiologist rode with him....no update yet this morning.
 
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