OT: Juwan Durham update

[HuskiesAllDay]

Brimah could have literally stood at halfcourt on offense and done nothing and still, compared to the choices, made us a far better team because of his defense. I don't remember you on JC's butt in '06-'07 when Thabeet started, and Brimah's offensive skills this year were literally light years advanced compared to Thabeet's. KO -- like JC -- looked for rim protection first and foremost in a Center.

Are you asking whether, if in hindsight he knew that we were going to have a losing season and he would then lose Durham and Enoch at the end of it, would he have played them more and won less to build for next year? We'll never know. But I will never, never criticize a coach for wanting to give himself the best chance to win any game he comes into. And if you really think JC was o.k. "playing for the future" and not desperately wanting to maximize chances of winning each and every game, you don't know the man nearly as well as you claim to.

Thabeet played that year because we had nobody else. Same as Brimah this year, except AB was a senior who showed marginal improvement at best in his 4 years here. We weren't giving up big time potential development by playing Thabeet. We did by playing Brimah and now both of those guys are gone and all we have to show for it is a losing season.

Now compare that to the return on playing time investment that JC was able to achieve with Thabeet.....Little different story.

 

[intlzncster]

Emojis.

So I can't have my 'Generation #'? Throw me a f#$king bone.

 

[pj]

Many times he fought for position in the post and never got the ball.

Maybe that's because he shot 41% from the field. Our guards were more productive.

Be that as it may, you can't sacrifice defense. Enoch taking a shot on offense was at best the equal of Jalen, Christian, or Rodney taking a shot. Enoch on defense was far inferior to Brimah. You only need 1 shooter per possession, but you need 5 defenders. There is no hiding a center who doesn't defend, he's the last line of defense. When he doesn't rebound either (7.5 rebounds per 40 minutes for Enoch, vs 9.9 for Brimah), it doesn't make sense to play him.

 

[AntG168]

LOL - Thabeet was the second over-all pick of the NBA draft and you are comparing Brimah favorably to him? Additionally, his team won a huge number of games.
I think last season Enoch could have definitely been a much player than Brimah. Many times he fought for position in the post and never got the ball. The kid had good hands, wide shoulders and a nice soft touch. There is a reason Pitino signed him, he saw those things too.

Cmon cheif there is no way in hell Enoch would have gave us a better chance to win than Brimah last yr. Look at brimah's +/-

 

[August_West]

Shocker: The Boneyard lawyers see gray in a world where most see black or white.

Dont you guys have a public and country to continue fleecing instead of this self-congratulatory circle pull? Or is it lunch time (3 hours billed to client because you perused a 1 page memo while awaiting your caviar)?

 

[Chief00]

Maybe that's because he shot 41% from the field. Our guards were more productive.

Be that as it may, you can't sacrifice defense. Enoch taking a shot on offense was at best the equal of Jalen, Christian, or Rodney taking a shot. Enoch on defense was far inferior to Brimah. You only need 1 shooter per possession, but you need 5 defenders. There is no hiding a center who doesn't defend, he's the last line of defense. When he doesn't rebound either (7.5 rebounds per 40 minutes for Enoch, vs 9.9 for Brimah), it doesn't make sense to play him.

You can't extrapolate statistics on a young Big who did not see any minutes! That's foolish. You dudes all tied your boats to a guy who showed no improvement in 4 years.

 

[AntG168]

You can't extrapolate statistics on a young Big who did not see any minutes! That's foolish. You dudes all tied your boats to a guy who showed no improvement in 4 years.

But cheif he didnt see minutes because he made the team exponentially worse every time he was on the floor. What was Ollie to do? Throw games to play him?

 

[upstater]

You can't extrapolate statistics on a young Big who did not see any minutes! That's foolish. You dudes all tied your boats to a guy who showed no improvement in 4 years.

6 foot guards would drive the lane for lay-ups when he was in.

What more do you need to see?

 

[UConnNick]

Not sure if sarcasm, but that's not right. You don't want the kid around other players at all, because you don't want them getting sick too.

Also, if you don't rest these things, they tend to linger or relapse. Just the way of the world.

Feel a little icky defending the kid this point, but I'm betting the flu thing wasn't his call.

Maybe you're right, but we have a player on the women's team named Katie Lou Samuelson who was so sick she threw up in a trash can behind the bench and still scored something like 25 points against one of the best teams in the country at Maryland. Geno was also just as sick as KLS during that game and the days leading up to it. Should both of them have sat that one out so as not to infect the whole rest of the team? We also probably lose that game without their presence. Geno apparently didn't think it was too great a risk to expose the rest of the team to their illness, and he's considered one of the greatest coaches who has ever lived.

 

[pj]

You can't extrapolate statistics on a young Big who did not see any minutes! That's foolish. You dudes all tied your boats to a guy who showed no improvement in 4 years.

If you are talking about extrapolating from this season to 2018-19, I agree. If you're talking about extrapolating from 12 minutes to 20 minutes per game last season, I think I can absolutely say that minutes 13 to 20 would probably have looked exactly like minutes 1 to 12!

 

[UConnNick]

"...ridiculous to me beyond belief...?

You don't know much about the history between the two schools. Go back and take a look at how many times we played each other from the late 1940's to mid 1970's. The number is zero. Recruiting wars between the two schools were legendary. Ever hear of Johnny Egan?

Familiarity and proximity breed contempt.

 

[Chief00]

Cmon cheif there is no way in hell Enoch would have gave us a better chance to win than Brimah last yr. Look at brimah's +/-

When you see him play for Loiusville, you will understand what I mean better.

I also believe he had defensive ability - his problem defensively was more processing in real time our numerous defenses and defensive principles last season. Physically he is capable.

 

[gtcam]

Obviously my points are speculative as I am not part of the program and have no access beyond watching on tv, going to games, and reading on here and tos.

If its one player then its more likely to be player specific. But when it becomes a trend then you have to ask yourself if maybe its not just the players.

I was responding to the overwhelming majority of posts which tend to blame/ rip on JD, SE, and VJ without ever considering another explanation. As I said, I'm sure its a little of both and both parties need to share in the "blame". But the fan reaction here is not nearly as balanced and almost everyone is blaming the players for being lazy, soft, or just plain bad.

I completely agree with your analysis on every player and I have never stated otherwise. I said as much before and acknowledged all of their strengths and flaws.

My entire point was that despite these flaws, it doesn't seem like we've been able to maximize the strengths of these players. And every one of them had at least a few strengths/ skills that could have been better utilized in my opinion.

Every coach in America deals with players who are flawed. Is everyone on SMU and Cinci flawless? Do they somehow manage to only find players who are strong mentally and want to work hard? I have no idea, but it seems way too lazy to just blame this all on the players. Seems to me that their coaches have done a much better job of taking less heralded, less skilled players and getting more out of them than we do with more prized acquisitions.

Maybe all 3 of them are lazy and unwilling to put the work in. I have no idea. But its becoming too common around here and over too many classes for me to think that this is all on them.

I think all 3 of them are completely justified in wanting to transfer and can understand if all 3 of them are either unhappy with the coaches and/or doubtful of their ability to maximize their potential here.

And I don't enjoy seeing them get completely ripped on this board and dont agree with that assessment. That is all I'm trying to say.

I understand that
Thanks
Sometimes you just can't teach kids who don't want to accept constructive criticism

 

[intlzncster]

Maybe you're right, but we have a player on the women's team named Katie Lou Samuelson who was so sick she threw up in a trash can behind the bench and still scored something like 25 points against one of the best teams in the country at Maryland. Geno was also just as sick as KLS during that game and the days leading up to it. Should both of them have sat that one out so as not to infect the whole rest of the team? We also probably lose that game without their presence. Geno apparently didn't think it was too great a risk to expose the rest of the team to their illness, and he's considered one of the greatest coaches who has ever lived.

Fair enough, but every situation is different. Dr can usually make the call as to whether things were contagious or not. Also, Durham's relative importance vs KLS makes it a different risk reward proposition. And the UCONN women can win other games with only 3 players. The men were too thin to take the chance.

 

[gtcam]

When you see him play for Loiusville, you will understand what I mean better.

I also believe he had defensive ability - his problem defensively was more processing in real time our numerous defenses and defensive principles last season. Physically he is capable.

1. If he plays ant meaningful minutes
2. I disagree that he is physically capable - he has zero lateral quickness - all his offensive moves are straight at the basket, not across the lane. Defensively, you need lateral quickness - he has none

 

[intlzncster]

Brimah could have literally stood at halfcourt on offense and done nothing and still, compared to the choices, made us a far better team because of his defense. I don't remember you on JC's butt in '06-'07 when Thabeet started, and Brimah's offensive skills this year were literally light years advanced compared to Thabeet's. KO -- like JC -- looked for rim protection first and foremost in a Center.

Are you asking whether, if in hindsight he knew that we were going to have a losing season and he would then lose Durham and Enoch at the end of it, would he have played them more and won less to build for next year? We'll never know. But I will never, never criticize a coach for wanting to give himself the best chance to win any game he comes into. And if you really think JC was o.k. "playing for the future" and not desperately wanting to maximize chances of winning each and every game, you don't know the man nearly as well as you claim to.

JC wound NEVER have done what Chief was suggesting KO did. You play to win the game. That's what competitors do.

Quite frankly, if KO started mailing it in during a season, then THAT would have me calling for change. Not acceptable.

 

[John]

Maybe you're right, but we have a player on the women's team named Katie Lou Samuelson who was so sick she threw up in a trash can behind the bench and still scored something like 25 points against one of the best teams in the country at Maryland. Geno was also just as sick as KLS during that game and the days leading up to it. Should both of them have sat that one out so as not to infect the whole rest of the team? We also probably lose that game without their presence. Geno apparently didn't think it was too great a risk to expose the rest of the team to their illness, and he's considered one of the greatest coaches who has ever lived.

when UNC played UConn at the XL a few years ago, one of their better players was throwing up in a bucket on the sideline due to the flu, who was that?

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

JC wound NEVER have done what Chief was suggesting KO did. You play to win the game. That's what competitors do.

Quite frankly, if KO started mailing it in during a season, then THAT would have me calling for change. Not acceptable.

Sitting Jake Voskhul to play Justin Brown is mailing it in.

Reducing the time of an ineffective Brimah to develop a high potential guy is not.

 

[Mr. French]

When you see him play for Loiusville, you will understand what I mean better.

I also believe he had defensive ability - his problem defensively was more processing in real time our numerous defenses and defensive principles last season. Physically he is capable.

Everyone who dresses is physically capable of playing D.

The most important aspect is mental.

Another statement in a long line of confusing or obvious ones.

 

[Danzz]

1. If he plays ant meaningful minutes
2. I disagree that he is physically capable - he has zero lateral quickness - all his offensive moves are straight at the basket, not across the lane. Defensively, you need lateral quickness - he has none

Defense is more desire than talent and Enoch could have worked harder to improve. Hate to say it because I was one who expected a good year out of him but it didn't happen.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

When you see him play for Loiusville, you will understand what I mean better.

I also believe he had defensive ability - his problem defensively was more processing in real time our numerous defenses and defensive principles last season. Physically he is capable.

Right, he'll be 2 years farther along in his development.

You're sounding an awful lot like a casual fan.

 

[Mr. French]

Right, he'll be 2 years farther along in his development.

You're sounding an awful lot like a casual fan.

You mean like saying "his issues were mentally processing the defensive assignments in real time, he was physically capable." ?

As though that's not the case with anyone struggling on D ... As though that's not a statement made to sound deep and intricately knowledgeable about the game, but in fact is one of the more simplistic statements that could be made.

Not trying to rip Chief, but sometimes this stuff is too obvious to not point out. I mean, how is that high level basketball stuff? Sounds 'casual' at best ...

 

[mauconnfan]

Thabeet played that year because we had nobody else. Same as Brimah this year, except AB was a senior who showed marginal improvement at best in his 4 years here. We weren't giving up big time potential development by playing Thabeet. We did by playing Brimah and now both of those guys are gone and all we have to show for it is a losing season.

Now compare that to the return on playing time investment that JC was able to achieve with Thabeet.....Little different story.

Please stop. Thabeet was twice as smart as Brimah on the court you could see it immediately. We aren't even talking about the same kind of player Thabeet was so much better it wasn't close, because he had natural ability. Are you going to give JC all the credit for Emeka too? No he made himself better, was very smart and picked things up immediately you could see it happening. These kids are taught how to play, I saw AB in one on one coaching that is allowed in September for the hour or 2 at Gampel once and I thought he was going to be a world beater posting up against some 6'2 walk on practice kid. His moves and jump hooks we're really nice, repeating it form both sides for a very long time. Now transition it to the game..oh sorry he couldn't. He's a totally different case than Thabeet, not close.

What we are forgetting is a lot of teams have Brimah's but they were lucky enough that they weren't starting theirs. Many back ups have flaws and that's the reason they are bench players. We didn't get anyone better so this flawed player was in the spotlight too much hence the constant questioning of the staff. If they recruited the position better everyone would be thrilled with AB playing 12-18 minutes off the bench.

 

[businesslawyer]

LOL - Thabeet was the second over-all pick of the NBA draft and you are comparing Brimah favorably to him? Additionally, his team won a huge number of games.
I think last season Enoch could have definitely been a much player than Brimah. Many times he fought for position in the post and never got the ball. The kid had good hands, wide shoulders and a nice soft touch. There is a reason Pitino signed him, he saw those things too.

Nice of you to intentionally misstate my position. I referred to freshman Thabeet versus senior Brimah. And freshman Thabeet was as bad offensively as current Enoch is on defense. Sophomore Thabeet (much less Junior Thabeet) was much better offensively than current Brimah.

 

[mauconnfan]

When you see him play for Loiusville, you will understand what I mean better.

I also believe he had defensive ability - his problem defensively was more processing in real time our numerous defenses and defensive principles last season. Physically he is capable.

He was awful on defense whether it was man to man or zone, not sure what the heck else you need to see to think he had ability. They all have "ability" it's just some work harder to correct their flaws. He needs to do some real hard work on his feet, aerobics and or he's always going to be the guy we saw on defense. And even on offense where I loved his potential, he needs to figure out how to explode UP to make the lay ins and dunks because he showed little to none sometimes when made a great move and couldn't finish.