OT: Juwan Durham update

[businesslawyer]

Agree. But whose job is it to tell the player where to be and what to do in each situation?

Granted, he was clueless at both when he got here, but he is still clueless at both 2 years later as he leaves.

I guarantee Enoch will be a lot better at knowing where to be and what to do with Rick Pitino instructing him.

Really? Pitino has demonstrated that he can teach defense at a much better level than KO has? I don't see it. Proven at recruiting, running an offense and having the vision as to how to create and organize players into a team? Absolutely. But UConn's play under KO does not fit the narrative that we are generally unable to teach players how to defend. See, e.g., our last national championship.

 

[ivrytontusker]

If Durham wants more playing time why would he go to Duke?

VT, ND, etc., Louisville, etc., would give him more playing time than Duke.

 

[August_West]

If Durham wants more playing time why would he go to Duke?

VT, ND, etc., Louisville, etc., would give him more playing time than Duke.

Maybe the Hugs and "Coaching for relationships" style of K appeals to Juwans inner softness.

 

[intlzncster]

Maybe the Hugs and "Coaching for relationships" style of K appeals to Juwans inner softness.

Relentless.

 

[boog204]

Really? Pitino has demonstrated that he can teach defense at a much better level than KO has?

Umm, yes? You cited the 2014 natty. Louisville's defense against us that year was pretty damn good.

76-64; we shot 35%, they shot 48%
81-48, we shot 29%, they shot 45%
71-61; we shot 44%, they shot 41%

In the three games, they totally stifled us twice and the great defensive team that we were, was more or less a non-factor.

I know it's easy to beat on Pitino for his indiscretions, but he's a hall of famer who has taken three different schools to final fours, has won two championships (could have been more if he stayed at UK), and is generally regarded as one of the best coaches ever. You're really thinking that KO has the upper hand on him in any category at this juncture?

I think KO can absolutely coach defense; but saying that KO has "demonstrated that he can do it better" is pretty much disregarding Pitino's 25+ years of consistent excellence.

 

[CL82]

I'm wondering what this thread would like if wasn't getting high major interest. Probably, "I can't believe Ollie wasted a scholarship on this kid. No one else is interested in him."

 

[intlzncster]

Umm, yes? You cited the 2014 natty. Louisville's defense against us that year was pretty damn good.

76-64; we shot 35%, they shot 48%
81-48, we shot 29%, they shot 45%
71-61; we shot 44%, they shot 41%

In the three games, they totally stifled us twice and the great defensive team that we were, was more or less a non-factor.

I know it's easy to beat on Pitino for his indiscretions, but he's a hall of famer who has taken three different schools to final fours, has won two championships (could have been more if he stayed at UK), and is generally regarded as one of the best coaches ever. You're really thinking that KO has the upper hand on him in any category at this juncture?

I think KO can absolutely coach defense; but saying that KO has "demonstrated that he can do it better" is pretty much disregarding Pitino's 25+ years of consistent excellence.

That's mildly disingenuous though. That Louisville team was also constructed in such a fashion to be kryptonite for UCONN. That's the only team in the country that was beating us at the end of the year. Just the worst matchups possible.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Really? Pitino has demonstrated that he can teach defense at a much better level than KO has? I don't see it. Proven at recruiting, running an offense and having the vision as to how to create and organize players into a team? Absolutely. But UConn's play under KO does not fit the narrative that we are generally unable to teach players how to defend. See, e.g., our last national championship.

I mean yes, absolutely. Are you trying to argue that KO is as good of a defensive coach as Rick Pitino, possibly the best ever?

Kenpom Adj team Defense:

Lousiville UConn

2013: 1 59
2014: 5 10
2015: 5 60
2016: 2 12
2017: 8 63

Average: 4.2 40.8

Every year has been better than our best year. We've had two very good years and 3 average ones. In 5 years, his teams have finished top 5 in 4 of them and their worst finish is 8th. That's pretty incredible. Talent is one variable, but they are also playing better teams. But that really isn't close.

KO is a good defensive coach, but those stats would disagree with the defensive wizard some make him out to be on here. And comparing him to Pitino, one of, if not the best defensive coach ever? Come on.

And that wasn't even the point I was making. I was replying to a poster and referring to his positioning knowledge on both ends and in all situations during a game.

Point is, when Enoch gets a heck of a lot better, most people on here will chalk it up to time. Which is certainly one aspect. But he was here for a long time too and didn't exactly show much growth.

 

[Huskyforlife]

He wont. And just say he does for arguments sake, if we're winning we wont give a damn. We need to worry about what we have and what we can get going foward amd stop crying over spilled milk. He left because he was mentally soft. He can never play basketball again for all i care

You're aloud to feel that way. I'm still having a hard time with the loss of a player I thought had lots of talent, and seeing coaches like Buzz, K, and Brey pursue him confirms my opinion.

I look forward to watching Whaley, Diarra, Carlton, and Cobb. But I don't think any of them have the raw talent of Enoch or Durham.

 

[Huskyforlife]

I'm wondering what this thread would like if wasn't getting high major interest. Probably, "I can't believe Ollie wasted a scholarship on this kid. No one else is interested in him."

That would make sense, considering players at low majors generally have less talent than players at high majors. But in the case of Enoch and Durham, they are getting high major interest.

 

[auror]

Really? Pitino has demonstrated that he can teach defense at a much better level than KO has? I don't see it.

That's a pretty unassailable assumption.

Pitino has coached Louisville to a top 10 adjusted defense 7 years in a row (6 of which in top 5), including 2 #1s and a #2. Pretty ridiculous, to be honest.

 

[3'sGetDegrees]

You're aloud to feel that way. I'm still having a hard time with the loss of a player I thought had lots of talent, and seeing coaches like Buzz, K, and Brey pursue him confirms my opinion.

I look forward to watching Whaley, Diarra, Carlton, and Cobb. But I don't think any of them have the raw talent of Enoch or Durham.

Now Enoch is someone I am going to miss. I thought he had the most potential. He had the size and skills. I think he will be real nice down the road. I am sad to see him go.

 

[auror]

Really? Pitino has demonstrated that he can teach defense at a much better level than KO has? I don't see it.

Ollie for comparison (won't let me do 2 images in one post).

 

[AntG168]

Ollie for comparison (won't let me do 2 images in one post).

Anyone comparing ollie to pitino at this point in ollie's career are dumb and being absolutely unfair. Ollie has been coaching for 5 yrs while pitino is a hall of famer. Compare ollie to the smart's and tony Bennett's of the world

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Ollie for comparison (won't let me do 2 images in one post).

Ive tried 10 times to post the Ken Pom Adj D stats. Thought i posted it hours ago, but for some reason only about half of my posts end up showing up.

So Ill post it again:

Kenpom Adj team Defense:

Lousiville UConn

2013: 1 59
2014: 5 10
2015: 5 60
2016: 2 12
2017: 8 63

Average: 4.2 40.8

Its literally not even close. His worst year is better than KO's best. 5 year sample size, but that's all we have to go on.

KO is a good defensive coach, but saying hes on the same level as Pitino? Absurd.

 

[intlzncster]

You're aloud to feel that way. I'm still having a hard time with the loss of a player I thought had lots of talent, and seeing coaches like Buzz, K, and Brey pursue him confirms my opinion.

I look forward to watching Whaley, Diarra, Carlton, and Cobb. But I don't think any of them have the raw talent of Enoch or Durham.

I think arguing these two don't have potential is a stretch, especially Durham. I'm not certain on Steve myself. He has the size, and the touch, but haven't seen anything else. It's almost like he spends all his time alone in the gym shooting jumpshots.

Both of these guys needed a redshirt year for development, and they'll get it by jumping ship.

I'm pissed about Durham leaving, less about Steve, unless we can't find a warm body to fill that whole.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

The question you gotta ask yourself is...Are you an a$$h0le?

If that is objectively the case, there's your answer.

Haha. I mean that definitely crossed my mind. And I may be one, but I don't think any of my posts have ever come close to crossing the line.

My account has issues. Its 100x slower when I'm logged in than when I'm not. And it acts very buggy a lot.

Again, could all be symptoms of my a**holery.

Also, for about three years, I had "nostrodamus all day" as my tag line and I definitely did not write that. So somebody (a mod) must have done that to me. only yesterday did i finally figure out how to change it. so maybe a mod has a vendetta against me, but I wouldn't know why.

 

[KembaStepback]

Durham is easy for these teams to sign. It's on Durhams end none of this makes any sense. These other schools/coaches get to wait ANOTHER year for him to get healthy and hit the weight room. He's got a high ceiling and there really isn't any downside aside from a wasted scholly. He gets to sit out for a 3rd season in 4 seasons.

 

[champs99and04]

Alternatively to stair's point, K and Rick could simply see potential upside, and don't mind stashing a kid at the end of the bench for potential high reward payoff. Really low risk, high reward proposition.

UConn saw that potential upside too. I don't think they wanted either to transfer. But the kids didn't want to be here. That's it.

I don't see why these concepts are so hard for people.

I agree with all of this.

But the fact that they don't want to be here is a huge problem. Pitino and K are ruthless with their players in a world class way, so it can't be that they wanted an easy way out. Instead, it's clearly a matter of credibility - which is understandable to some end, since Ollie obviously doesn't have the pedigree that the other two do - or communication, both of which are flaws that you absolutely cannot have as a head coach. Between the veiled reports from people around the program that something is awry in Storrs - and whether that's a scandalous sort of thing or a natural result of on-court struggles, I don't know - and the flood of players leaving the program, I don't think all of this can simply be explained away as organic roster turnover. There is something more here.

There is no way in hell on God's green earth that Juwan Durham should have left UConn. That he did causes me to question Ollie's abilities as a salesman and that he appears to have drawn interest from Duke - honestly one of the handful of schools I did not expect interest from - makes me shiver like I'm watching a horror movie.

Losing Jackson and MAL is fine. Enoch is a huge talent that I don't think is ever going to put it together. Durham is the one you lose sleep over as a coach. Durham is the one that models the prototype you coveted, the one who blew up the circuit two years ago before tearing his ACL, and the one whose freshman season represented the inevitable bridge back to health. He's the guy who you're thinking about on May 11th and the guy you're thinking about on March 17th when your all-American point guard is crying in the locker-room after the game because his 30 points wasn't enough. He could come back to haunt us.

 

[champs99and04]

Really? Pitino has demonstrated that he can teach defense at a much better level than KO has? I don't see it. Proven at recruiting, running an offense and having the vision as to how to create and organize players into a team? Absolutely. But UConn's play under KO does not fit the narrative that we are generally unable to teach players how to defend. See, e.g., our last national championship.

I mean, yes and no. KO has demonstrated an ability to teach man to man defense at a picturesque level when given the personnel conducive to his schemes. Pitino has churned out elite defense after elite defense with rosters turning over and rules changing and his league changing.
I have maintained that Pitino would have crafted a top ten defense out of what UConn had last season. Ollie stubbornly stuck with his aggressive schemes (and this was perhaps the source of the conflict between he and Miller) and they rated out as average.

In two of the last three seasons, defense has been a major problem for us. Not as big of a problem as offense, but a significant one nonetheless. Fortunately, I do think that the personnel on next years roster is more equipped to produce what KO wants them to. Between the small guards and undersized front court, it strikes me as more similar to the '13 and '14 teams. The question will be can anybody rebound and can anybody protect the rim.

 

[businesslawyer]

Umm, yes? You cited the 2014 natty. Louisville's defense against us that year was pretty damn good.

76-64; we shot 35%, they shot 48%
81-48, we shot 29%, they shot 45%
71-61; we shot 44%, they shot 41%

In the three games, they totally stifled us twice and the great defensive team that we were, was more or less a non-factor.

I know it's easy to beat on Pitino for his indiscretions, but he's a hall of famer who has taken three different schools to final fours, has won two championships (could have been more if he stayed at UK), and is generally regarded as one of the best coaches ever. You're really thinking that KO has the upper hand on him in any category at this juncture?

I think KO can absolutely coach defense; but saying that KO has "demonstrated that he can do it better" is pretty much disregarding Pitino's 25+ years of consistent excellence.

Except:

1. I did not say KO can coach defense better.

2. You're really using stats from 3 games to make your point? Really?

 

[businesslawyer]

That's a pretty unassailable assumption.

Pitino has coached Louisville to a top 10 adjusted defense 7 years in a row (6 of which in top 5), including 2 #1s and a #2. Pretty ridiculous, to be honest.

Your numbers have adjusted for talent? Or you just assume that saying Louisville has produced better computer numbers on Defense over that time means Pitino is clearly a better defensive coach?

Comparison to make it easy: By going 12-0 at Ohio State, Urban Meyer does not prove that he is demonstrably better at coaching defenses than a coach who goes 7-5 at Minnesota.

 

[Fishy]

All right, we've officially plumbed the depths of crazy and can call this one a wrap.