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Butch said:
Do the Giants regret picking Barkley over Darnold yet?
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I can only guess the fans who do as we speak, there's plenty. Barkley already did something our RB's couldn't do for many years now, break a run with a crappy line.

Hey Darnold showed a presence in the pocket, liked it no doubt. They also blocked better and didn't play against Jacksonville. Lot of football to see but a great sign nonetheless for J E T S fans on their choice too.
 
40 year Jet fan here. The Browns and Giants passing on Darnold is the luckiest break the Jets have had in my lifetime. I was one of the many Jets fans hoping we would lose every game last year so we could secure the rights to draft Sam. Sam has that "It factor" that all the great ones have and he's 21.

Giddy times for Jets fans.
 
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intlzncster said:
I only cared because I think it's a myopic argument, lacking context.



My quote from above: I dunno how Matty P will do. Time will tell. But they look like junk tonight.

Anyone who thinks they know how coordinators will do as HCs is full of it. It's a gamble. A few years ago, Hue Jackson was the bell of the ball, and he's junk.



Meh, Bill OBrien is 31–34. And that's only because he played most of last year without his stud QB. At the end of this year, he'll be well into the black.
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Define “well into” and there’s a fun bet in here.
 
metsfan2323 said:
40 year Jet fan here. The Browns and Giants passing on Darnold is the luckiest break the Jets have had in my lifetime. I was one of the many Jets fans hoping we would lose every game last year so we could secure the rights to draft Sam. Sam has that "It factor" that all the great ones have and he's 21.

Giddy times for Jets fans.
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Same boat here. 40 years myself. And, for those who think Jets fans are overreacting to one game, here is a list of every Jets QB since I really began following them closely:

Sam Darnold 2018
Josh McCown 2017
Bryce Petty 2016
Ryan Fitzpatrick 2015
Michael Vick 2014
Geno Smith 2013
Matt Simms 2013
Tim Tebow 2012
Greg McElroy 2012
Mark Brunell 2010
Mark Sanchez 2009
Brett Favre 2008
Kellen Clemens 2006
Brad Smith 2006
Patrick Ramsey 2006
Jay Fiedler 2005
Kliff Kingsbury 2005
Brooks Bollinger 2004
Quincy Carter 2004
Chad Pennington 2000
Rick Mirer 1999
Vinny Testaverde 1998
Ray Lucas 1997
Neil O'Donnell 1996
Frank Reich 1996
Bubby Brister 1995
Glenn Foley 1994
Jack Trudeau 1994
Boomer Esiason 1993
Jeff Blake 1992
Browning Nagle 1991
Troy Taylor 1990
Tony Eason 1989
Kyle Mackey 1989
Mark Malone 1989
David Norrie 1987
Walter Briggs 1987
Ken O'Brien 1984
Pat Ryan 1978
Matt Robinson 1977
Marty Domres 1977
Richard Todd 1976
 
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Deepster said:
Same boat here. 40 years myself. And, for those who think Jets fans are overreacting to one game, here is a list of every Jets QB since I really began following them closely:

Sam Darnold 2018
Josh McCown 2017
Bryce Petty 2016
Ryan Fitzpatrick 2015
Michael Vick 2014
Geno Smith 2013
Matt Simms 2013
Tim Tebow 2012
Greg McElroy 2012
Mark Brunell 2010
Mark Sanchez 2009
Brett Favre 2008
Kellen Clemens 2006
Brad Smith 2006
Patrick Ramsey 2006
Jay Fiedler 2005
Kliff Kingsbury 2005
Brooks Bollinger 2004
Quincy Carter 2004
Chad Pennington 2000
Rick Mirer 1999
Vinny Testaverde 1998
Ray Lucas 1997
Neil O'Donnell 1996
Frank Reich 1996
Bubby Brister 1995
Glenn Foley 1994
Jack Trudeau 1994
Boomer Esiason 1993
Jeff Blake 1992
Browning Nagle 1991
Troy Taylor 1990
Tony Eason 1989
Kyle Mackey 1989
Mark Malone 1989
David Norrie 1987
Walter Briggs 1987
Ken O'Brien 1984
Pat Ryan 1978
Matt Robinson 1977
Marty Domres 1977
Richard Todd 1976
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We must be the same age. My first memory as a Jet fan was debating if Matt Robinson was better than Todd. I was in the Robinson camp.
 
Deepster said:
Same boat here. 40 years myself. And, for those who think Jets fans are overreacting to one game, here is a list of every Jets QB since I really began following them closely:

Sam Darnold 2018
Josh McCown 2017
Bryce Petty 2016
Ryan Fitzpatrick 2015
Michael Vick 2014
Geno Smith 2013
Matt Simms 2013
Tim Tebow 2012
Greg McElroy 2012
Mark Brunell 2010
Mark Sanchez 2009
Brett Favre 2008
Kellen Clemens 2006
Brad Smith 2006
Patrick Ramsey 2006
Jay Fiedler 2005
Kliff Kingsbury 2005
Brooks Bollinger 2004
Quincy Carter 2004
Chad Pennington 2000
Rick Mirer 1999
Vinny Testaverde 1998
Ray Lucas 1997
Neil O'Donnell 1996
Frank Reich 1996
Bubby Brister 1995
Glenn Foley 1994
Jack Trudeau 1994
Boomer Esiason 1993
Jeff Blake 1992
Browning Nagle 1991
Troy Taylor 1990
Tony Eason 1989
Kyle Mackey 1989
Mark Malone 1989
David Norrie 1987
Walter Briggs 1987
Ken O'Brien 1984
Pat Ryan 1978
Matt Robinson 1977
Marty Domres 1977
Richard Todd 1976
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47 years here.

Saw Namath in Shea a bunch of times.

I like the quote in this thread of someone saying Jets fans are jumping the gun over one win against the Lions. Lolz. No long time Jets fan would ever do that. I know you dont. Dont think metsfan does either.

I do like Darnolds upside, a lot. We may have finally caught a break (but Ill wait for the other shoe to drop)
 
the Q said:
Define “well into” and there’s a fun bet in here.
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Wrong word, I'll grant you. They are probably going to be a 10-6 or 11-5 team. So you are looking at +4 or 5 games. So overall record for BO of +1 or 2. I expect it'll continue to climb.

If you are a decent coach, all you need is a good QB and GM.
 
metsfan2323 said:
We must be the same age. My first memory as a Jet fan was debating if Matt Robinson was better than Todd. I was in the Robinson camp.
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for one season he was.

Remember it well.

Todd got hurt and Robinson looked like gang busters.

Won the starting job next season and then broke his Thumb arm wrestling someone 3 days before season started.
Jets.
 
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August_West said:
I do like Darnolds upside, a lot. We may have finally caught a break (but Ill wait for the other shoe to drop)
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The only thing that gives me pause is Woody Johnson. I've often compared him to a slightly lesser version of James Dolan.

That said, Darnold and a good GM (your guy looks pretty decent atm) maybe able to counteract the Woody effect. He needs to have learned his lesson and stay far away from the building while football guys are doing football things.
 
metsfan2323 said:
40 year Jet fan here. The Browns and Giants passing on Darnold is the luckiest break the Jets have had in my lifetime. I was one of the many Jets fans hoping we would lose every game last year so we could secure the rights to draft Sam. Sam has that "It factor" that all the great ones have and he's 21.

Giddy times for Jets fans.
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Even though I'm a Pats fan, I'm kinda rooting for Darnold, so I can stick it to Giants fans. Don't hate the Giants, just like to needle their fans cause they needle us.

I'll say it again, and people think I'm crazy, but I do think Baker will be the best QB out of this draft. Just depends on if he gets Browns-ed or not. Darnold does look like he'll be at worst a good QB; not a bad floor to have.
 
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intlzncster said:
Wrong word, I'll grant you. They are probably going to be a 10-6 or 11-5 team. So you are looking at +4 or 5 games. So overall record for BO of +1 or 2. I expect it'll continue to climb.

If you are a decent coach, all you need is a good QB and GM.
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I like the cowherd system (school letter grades)

A coach
A owner
A GM
A QB


This also explains how the packers have inexplicably wasted Rodgers prime
 
the Q said:
I like the cowherd system (school letter grades)

A coach
A owner
A GM
A QB


This also explains how the packers have inexplicably wasted Rodgers prime
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I'd agree, but with some caveats. An Owner needs to fully support financially/infrastructure/culture, and stay out of the way. Basically don't screw it up.

Coach is very important, but good players, especially good QBs, are what makes good coaches. At the end of the day, if you can execute*, things just work, no matter what it is you're doing.

*finding guys who can execute and buy into your system is GM
 
intlzncster said:
I'd agree, but with some caveats. An Owner needs to fully support financially/infrastructure/culture, and stay out of the way. Basically don't screw it up.

Coach is very important, but good players, especially good QBs, are what makes good coaches. At the end of the day, if you can execute*, things just work, no matter what it is you're doing.

*finding guys who can execute and buy into your system is GM
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I agree wih your general premise but I do draw a line at schemes and play calling. Sometimes you need to adapt your schemes to the talent, not vice versa. That’s coaching too.
 
the Q said:
I agree wih your general premise but I do draw a line at schemes and play calling. Sometimes you need to adapt your schemes to the talent, not vice versa. That’s coaching too.
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I mean fair, but I think this is less the case in Football than other sports. So much of the game is what happens off the field in the offseason. You don't see that Pats (easiest example due to success) changing schemes too much. They draft and sign guys who fit their system.

It's really hard to build any continuity year on year if you keep switching up what you are doing.

What they do do, which fits what you are talking about, put guys in position to maximize their strengths, but within their system.
 
I mean, who's the top 3 QB's from my list? I've thought about it for years and it has to be Vinny, Ken O'Brien and Boomer? Maybe Pennington in there? Ugh.
 
intlzncster said:
I mean fair, but I think this is less the case in Football than other sports. So much of the game is what happens off the field in the offseason. You don't see that Pats (easiest example due to success) changing schemes too much. They draft and sign guys who fit their system.

It's really hard to build any continuity year on year if you keep switching up what you are doing.

What they do do, which fits what you are talking about, put guys in position to maximize their strengths, but within their system.
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I would disagree strongly.

Look at 2002 dink and dunk. To the 04 Corey Dillon power running offense, to the shotgun deep ball and spread with Moss and welker, to the 2 te short passing and hit the TEs on mid deep seams of the early 2010s, to what they do now.

They’re all different.
 
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the Q said:
I would disagree strongly.

Look at 2002 dink and dunk. To the 04 Corey Dillon power running offense, to the shotgun deep ball and spread with Moss and welker, to the 2 te short passing and hit the TEs on mid deep seams of the early 2010s, to what they do now.

They’re all different.
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Of course, but it's the same playbook. Same offense. It hasn't changed. They're still running most of the same plays, just tweaked a bit for personnel.

For example, Welker was receiving dink and dunks all 2007. But they also had Moss, so Bill, as I mentioned, put him in the best place to maximize his ability (of going long).

Troy Brown, Welker, Edelman, Amendola were all getting the same routes. Kevin Faulk, Woodhead, Vereen, James White the same thing.

Blount, Ridley were running a lot of the same plays Dillon did, just with lesser results because he wasn't as good.

Gronk gets a lot of the same stuff Coates got, with an expanded route tree to maximize/utilize his preternatural abilities.

They are, and always have been, very much a possession offense. Which takes a toll on the opposing defense, and makes their own defense look better than it actually is.

The only big schematic change during the BB years has been a definitive shift from the 3-4 to more of a 4-3 defense, likely due to change in NFL rules, and ability to find guys to fit the system.
 
Deepster said:
I mean, who's the top 3 QB's from my list? I've thought about it for years and it has to be Vinny, Ken O'Brien and Boomer? Maybe Pennington in there? Ugh.
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Vinny was underrated. Problem was they got him on the butt end of his career.
 
Deepster said:
I mean, who's the top 3 QB's from my list? I've thought about it for years and it has to be Vinny, Ken O'Brien and Boomer? Maybe Pennington in there? Ugh.
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sounds about right.
 
Deepster said:
Same boat here. 40 years myself. And, for those who think Jets fans are overreacting to one game, here is a list of every Jets QB since I really began following them closely:

Sam Darnold 2018
Josh McCown 2017
Bryce Petty 2016
Ryan Fitzpatrick 2015
Michael Vick 2014
Geno Smith 2013
Matt Simms 2013
Tim Tebow 2012
Greg McElroy 2012
Mark Brunell 2010
Mark Sanchez 2009
Brett Favre 2008
Kellen Clemens 2006
Brad Smith 2006
Patrick Ramsey 2006
Jay Fiedler 2005
Kliff Kingsbury 2005
Brooks Bollinger 2004
Quincy Carter 2004
Chad Pennington 2000
Rick Mirer 1999
Vinny Testaverde 1998
Ray Lucas 1997
Neil O'Donnell 1996
Frank Reich 1996
Bubby Brister 1995
Glenn Foley 1994
Jack Trudeau 1994
Boomer Esiason 1993
Jeff Blake 1992
Browning Nagle 1991
Troy Taylor 1990
Tony Eason 1989
Kyle Mackey 1989
Mark Malone 1989
David Norrie 1987
Walter Briggs 1987
Ken O'Brien 1984
Pat Ryan 1978
Matt Robinson 1977
Marty Domres 1977
Richard Todd 1976
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Wow you do deserve a break in that lineup
 
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Deepster said:
I mean, who's the top 3 QB's from my list? I've thought about it for years and it has to be Vinny, Ken O'Brien and Boomer? Maybe Pennington in there? Ugh.
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Chad is #1 there IMO. He took some really crappy offenses to playoffs. The guy had a solid arm at Marshall (and Randy Moss) and might've been a truly great one if he didn't mangle his shoulder. Still, he managed to survive a decade in the NFL with a noodle arm mostly by using his head and got to playoffs in the years he wasn't sidelined.

I was pretty much done with the Jets when they signed Favre and threw Chad to the curb. I was actually happy when Chad, wearing Dolphin teal and orange, beat Favre and took that last playoff spot. Penny was a great leader of men and, IMO, would be an awesome coach.

Vinny was great in the Vinny way, and also didn't have great teams around him. Kenny had great weapons but was too risk averse and concerned about interceptions - he should've won more even with Marino in his division. Boomer... he's still a Bengal to me.
 
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storrsroars said:
Chad is #1 there IMO. He took some really crappy offenses to playoffs. The guy had a solid arm at Marshall (and Randy Moss) and might've been a truly great one if he didn't mangle his shoulder. Still, he managed to survive a decade in the NFL with a noodle arm mostly by using his head and got to playoffs in the years he wasn't sidelined.

I was pretty much done with the Jets when they signed Favre and threw Chad to the curb. I was actually happy when Chad, wearing Dolphin teal and orange, beat Favre and took that last playoff spot. Penny was a great leader of me and, IMO, would be an awesome coach.

Vinny was great in the Vinny way, and also didn't have great teams around him. Kenny had great weapons but was too risk averse and concerned about interceptions - he should've won more even with Marino in his division. Boomer... he's still a Bengal to me.
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Yea after Chad's first year as a starter he was the one getting the Joe Montana comparisons not Brady. Once the shoulder injuries started he just became so limited, still a guy who could manage games well and beat the bad teams, couldn't beat the best defenses. Not to in any way suggest he would have had a career like the greats, but the injuries were still a shame.
 
storrsroars said:
Chad is #1 there IMO. He took some really crappy offenses to playoffs. The guy had a solid arm at Marshall (and Randy Moss) and might've been a truly great one if he didn't mangle his shoulder.
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Pennington was not on an elite track imo. He could have been a good to very good QB. We'll never know.

kemba said:
Yea after Chad's first year as a starter he was the one getting the Joe Montana comparisons not Brady. Once the shoulder injuries started he just became so limited, still a guy who could manage games well and beat the bad teams, couldn't beat the best defenses. Not to in any way suggest he would have had a career like the greats, but the injuries were still a shame.
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All that does is show how dumb people are in a hot take world.
 
intlzncster said:
Even though I'm a Pats fan, I'm kinda rooting for Darnold, so I can stick it to Giants fans. Don't hate the Giants, just like to needle their fans cause they needle us.

I'll say it again, and people think I'm crazy, but I do think Baker will be the best QB out of this draft. Just depends on if he gets Browns-ed or not. Darnold does look like he'll be at worst a good QB; not a bad floor to have.
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Darnold is a solid pro QB. Jets will dominate the AFC East, post-Brady, if other teams don't find as good of a QB.

This dude looks better than Garoppolo.
 
Darnold's big test will be in November and December games in the cold and wind of Giants Stadium. Kid grew up on the beach of Cali. His idea of cold weather is probably 50's.
 
Devland said:
Darnold's big test will be in November and December games in the cold and wind of Giants Stadium. Kid grew up on the beach of Cali. His idea of cold weather is probably 50's.
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Brady grew up in San Mateo. And Favre grew up in the bayou.
 
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