OT: How Bad Are the Giants? | Page 4 | The Boneyard

OT: How Bad Are the Giants?

TheHorde said:
I said down the line. He’s almost 10 years younger than Dak so he will outlast him. Purdy is not very good he’s surrounded by an incredible supporting cast. He’s a game manager. I’m not sure how many of the list you cited will even be still playing by the time Maye is 30. I said “can be” not “will be”, by the way. He was drafted third for a reason and has a ton of outstanding tape in college.
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Zak Wilson was drafted second. Bryce Young was drafted first.
 
Deepster said:
I'm all for optimism, but top 10? Based on what? A few preseason drives?

Just for kicks, which QB is he going to leapfrog?

  1. Mahomes
  2. Josh Allen
  3. Lamar Jackson
  4. Jalen Hurts
  5. CJ Stroud
  6. Jordan Love
  7. Jared Goff
  8. Tua Tagovailoa
  9. Brock Purdy
  10. Dak Prescott
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Hurts, purdy, goff, Prescott.

Geez. League is terrible at qb, to be honest. Mahomez and Allen, top 2. Jackson is very productive. Everyone else? Mid.

Top picks Murray. burrow, Lawrence, and young are not even in the top 10. So much for tanking.
 
JohnFSilver said:
Hurts, purdy, goff, Prescott.

Geez. League is terrible at qb, to be honest. Machines and Allen, top 2. Jackson is very productive. Everyone else? Mid.
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Goff is the only one I’d probably off for Maye and he was a quarter from the Suoer Bowl last year.

Keep in mind these were the same comments on Maye we heard on Mac Jones last two years.
 
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looked at sportsrac contract. The giants don't pay anyone on offense except Thomas and Jones.

How do eagles, 49ers, cowboys, and chiefs pay all these players, but giants couldn't afford Barkley.

look at the contracts on offense. Jones, Thomas, and then nothing but bargain basement or rookie contracts. What did they expect?
 
No bargains in the Giants' basement. :rolleyes:

When in business, Filene's Basement had some good bargains for their clothes.

For any who remember the place.
 
JohnFSilver said:
looked at sportsrac contract. The giants don't pay anyone on offense except Thomas and Jones.

How do eagles, 49ers, cowboys, and chiefs pay all these players, but giants couldn't afford Barkley.

look at the contracts on offense. Jones, Thomas, and then nothing but bargain basement or rookie contracts. What did they expect?
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Because those teams load up on contracts where the future cap hits are enormous and it's worth it to win and hopefully compete for Super Bowls. Could the Giants have done that for Barkley by restructuring Thomas's and Lawrence's contracts? Sure. But that's bad business when the upside is 4 wins versus 2 wins. Keeping cap flexibility for 2025 and 2026 is more valuable
 
Niners looked pretty damn good without Mcaffrey, an undrafted rb with 147 yards rushing like I said the Niners were already a Super Bowl contender without him, of course they're a top 2 team with Mccaffrey.
 
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navery12 said:
Because those teams load up on contracts where the future cap hits are enormous and it's worth it to win and hopefully compete for Super Bowls. Could the Giants have done that for Barkley by restructuring Thomas's and Lawrence's contracts? Sure. But that's bad business when the upside is 4 wins versus 2 wins. Keeping cap flexibility for 2025 and 2026 is more valuable
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Then why field any team?
just trade Thomas and Lawrence. Trade Nabers while value is high.

The goal is to win games. Mara has the right attitude imo in thinking of other stakeholders. This a marketing disaster by giants.

giants are not putting their best possible team on the field. Inexcusable.

just insane management with roster construction and cap management treated like it is a video game.

I get 80% of Barkley production at 30% the cost. Brilliant!

morons.
 
Scoe said:
Niners looked pretty damn good without Mcaffrey, an undrafted rb with 147 yards rushing like I said the Niners were already a Super Bowl contender without him, of course they're a top 2 team with Mccaffrey.
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giants should trade for him.
 
Scoe said:
Niners looked pretty damn good without Mcaffrey, an undrafted rb with 147 yards rushing like I said the Niners were already a Super Bowl contender without him, of course they're a top 2 team with Mccaffrey.
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is mason better than any rb on giants. Or would any rb do what mason did.
 
JohnFSilver said:
Then why field any team?
just trade Thomas and Lawrence. Trade Nabers while value is high.

The goal is to win games. Mara has the right attitude imo in thinking of other stakeholders. This a marketing disaster by giants.

giants are not putting their best possible team on the field. Inexcusable.

just insane management with roster construction and cap management treated like it is a video game.

I get 80% of Barkley production at 30% the cost. Brilliant!

morons.
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You seem unable to grasp basic football knowledge at this point so I'm not gonna bother responding after this.

You keep Lawrence and Thomas and Nabers because they're foundational pieces who will still be in their prime when the Giants are ready to win with their next QB. Barkley would not be

Your 80% production for 30% of the cost comment shows just how out of touch you are. Because that would be great value for the Giants and is exactly what they're hoping for
 
navery12 said:
You seem unable to grasp basic football knowledge at this point so I'm not gonna bother responding after this.

You keep Lawrence and Thomas and Nabers because they're foundational pieces who will still be in their prime when the Giants are ready to win with their next QB. Barkley would not be

Your 80% production for 30% of the cost comment shows just how out of touch you are. Because that would be great value for the Giants and is exactly what they're hoping for
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Careful with that. I know exactly what they are doing from roster building and football and then also analyzing it as a business process as well. I am just being a bit sarcastic.

What I am pointing out is there is a chance to leverage the group think.

What GMs should reach for is try and find a market differentiator. In the past, that was a really cheap and productive running back.

But now, everyone is doing that, the running back position so devalued that there is a value opportunity in going against consensus.

Where is the edge now?

RB is commoditized. I think there is an opportunity, at that price, to get premium production and game impact at a fraction of the cost of what it would happen at another position .

The way Barkley, and the elite running backs effect the game compared to what you would have to pay a WR or DE to have that impact…if you can acquire talent at that cost then you do it.

The holy grail is elite production like Barkley in a rookie contract.

Now, would I take a rb top 5? No. Just too much risk there.

But In business and in life:

Quality > Value

The question is, what’s the delta? How much premium will the quality cost? I think RBs have hit bottom.

I want the highest quality at the least cost I can get. Do not settle for lesser quality and commoditize a position where you can have a game wrecker.

If giants felt that Barkley wasn’t that any more. Then sure. If they felt they have a guy who can do that? Sure.

But they don’t have that guy. Now, what they are left with is replacement level dime a dozen commoditized back.

This is why MBAs screw up businesses. It’s why CEO’s get paid so much.

Vision > system.

Lastly: Schoen would say, at a unit level, I got great value out of RB, TE, WR (rookie contracts) and OL ( runyan, rotten, Elu).

My issue is I am not getting value out of my QB and that is why our outputs are not producing despite tremendous value plays.

So, they go get Kirk Cousins next year and will they go to Super Bowl? Of course not.

You see the problem? They are actually farther away from contending than when he took over. Not only do they have less talent, they have expensive non-producers and cheap value plays.

All because he keeps on searching for value.
 
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Scoe said:
Niners looked pretty damn good without Mcaffrey, an undrafted rb with 147 yards rushing like I said the Niners were already a Super Bowl contender without him, of course they're a top 2 team with Mccaffrey.
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If they're smart, CMC is rested until he's 100% no matter how long that takes and when he comes back? He's in some type of 60/40 or 65/35 type share to make sure he's good for the SB run. No reason to lean on him with 25-30 touches a game.
 
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navery12 said:
You seem unable to grasp basic football knowledge at this point so I'm not gonna bother responding after this.

You keep Lawrence and Thomas and Nabers because they're foundational pieces who will still be in their prime when the Giants are ready to win with their next QB. Barkley would not be

Your 80% production for 30% of the cost comment shows just how out of touch you are. Because that would be great value for the Giants and is exactly what they're hoping for
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I am your manager. Good job finding value.

What’s your plan to bridge the other 20% of production?
 
JohnFSilver said:
I am your manager. Good job finding value.

What’s your plan to bridge the other 20% of production?
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Bringing in Greg Van Roten, Jermaine Eluemunor, and Jon Runyan Jr with the saved money to give Drew Lock time to throw the ball down field to the improved receiving core
 
navery12 said:
Bringing in Greg Van Roten, Jermaine Eluemunor, and Jon Runyan Jr with the saved money to give Drew Lock time to throw the ball down field to the improved receiving core
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And how is that working out for you?

Lol.

I like you, Navery. I'm just busting balls now.

the answer is what Schoen said in Hard Knocks. That is what our $40m qb is for.

You lose production. You have to make it up at:

1. Another position - QB/WR/TE
2. Coaching
3. Player development
4. Scouting

Dynasty Patriots won by having an elite QB. They then found a differentiator at the TE position and went to the replacement level at WR and RB they also found a differentiator in the slot.

They were innovative.

On defense, they relied on belichick defensive coaching and scheming as differnetiator. Genius.

Giants have little talent on the field on offense, and are they differentiators in coaching, scout, or player developmen?

Hate to ruin everyones day.
 
JohnFSilver said:
And how is that working out for you?

Lol.

I like you, Navery. I'm just busting balls now.

the answer is what Schoen said in Hard Knocks. That is what our $40m qb is for.

You lose production. You have to make it up at:

1. Another position - QB/WR/TE
2. Coaching
3. Player development
4. Scouting

Dynasty Patriots won by having an elite QB. They then found a differentiator at the TE position and went to the replacement level at WR and RB they also found a differentiator in the slot.

They were innovative.

On defense, they relied on belichick defensive coaching and scheming as differnetiator. Genius.

Giants have little talent on the field on offense, and are they differentiators in coaching, scout, or player developmen?

Hate to ruin everyones day.
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The offensive line looked much better and the receivers were getting open, so I think pretty well. But until they have a real QB nothing matters so it's gonna be a long season
 
JohnFSilver said:
And how is that working out for you?

Lol.

I like you, Navery. I'm just busting balls now.

the answer is what Schoen said in Hard Knocks. That is what our $40m qb is for.

You lose production. You have to make it up at:

1. Another position - QB/WR/TE
2. Coaching
3. Player development
4. Scouting

Dynasty Patriots won by having an elite QB. They then found a differentiator at the TE position and went to the replacement level at WR and RB they also found a differentiator in the slot.

They were innovative.

On defense, they relied on belichick defensive coaching and scheming as differnetiator. Genius.

Giants have little talent on the field on offense, and are they differentiators in coaching, scout, or player developmen?

Hate to ruin everyones day.
Expand ...
The bloom is off Daboll’s rose imo. He fires wink, now he blames Kafka/takes playcalling. He’s running out of folks to blame.

He left Buffalo and Allen hasn’t skipped a beat….maybe it was Allen all along and had nothing to do with Daboll

No matter what happens, I don’t see Mara firing Schoen/Daboll this season…he wouldn’t admit to making yet another terrible hire.
 
As he gets older, I don't think Barkley wanted to play for the Giants any longer. It seemed that whatever the Giants offered, he wanted more. I think he wants a chance at some hardware while he still has some tread on his cleats.

As an outsider, I have the benefit of not looking through Big Blue colored glasses and I have posted it in numerous threads that he was a business decision for the Maras, but a poor selection (on par for Gettleman) for Giants' fans. As dynamic as he is and as many jerseys as the Maras were able to sell, runningback is a plug & play/cherry-on-top position. He may have been worth a #2 pick for some team, but the Giants had more important holes to fill then and have the same issues now.

Commanders fans have more reason for optimism than the Giants.
 
.-.
NJHusky said:
The bloom is off Daboll’s rose imo. He fires wink, now he blames Kafka/takes playcalling. He’s running out of folks to blame.

He left Buffalo and Allen hasn’t skipped a beat….maybe it was Allen all along and had nothing to do with Daboll

No matter what happens, I don’t see Mara firing Schoen/Daboll this season…he wouldn’t admit to making yet another terrible hire.
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It was 2nd and 5 and we did 2 straight DJ QB sneaks…That tells you all about Daboll’s chops as a play caller.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
It was 2nd and 5 and we did 2 straight DJ QB sneaks…That tells you all about Daboll’s chops as a play caller.
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And then punted!! The bravado he had in year 1 is gone. Guys coaching for their jobs rarely do a good job…they play not to lose rather than playing to win
 
Husky25 said:
As he gets older, I don't think Barkley wanted to play for the Giants any longer. It seemed that whatever the Giants offered, he wanted more. I think he wants a chance at some hardware while he still has some tread on his cleats.

As an outsider, I have the benefit of not looking through Big Blue colored glasses and I have posted it in numerous threads that he was a business decision for the Maras, but a poor selection (on par for Gettleman) for Giants' fans. As dynamic as he is and as many jerseys as the Maras were able to sell, runningback is a plug & play/cherry-on-top position. He may have been worth a #2 pick for some team, but the Giants had more important holes to fill then and have the same issues now.

Commanders fans have more reason for optimism than the Giants.
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If the Giants wanted to keep him they could have franchised him again. The RB number is not that big.
 
Husky25 said:
As he gets older, I don't think Barkley wanted to play for the Giants any longer. It seemed that whatever the Giants offered, he wanted more. I think he wants a chance at some hardware while he still has some tread on his cleats.
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He's 27. He's fast approaching that age where an NFL RB hits 100,000 on the odometer. It's clear the Giants aren't going anywhere. Good for him to get a shot at some playoffs and a run while he still has some juice.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
It was 2nd and 5 and we did 2 straight DJ QB sneaks…That tells you all about Daboll’s chops as a play caller.
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It's wearing off quick, but I'm not completely out on Daboll yet. I think he just doesn't trust Daniel Jones enough to call anything beyond the simplest plays
 
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