OT: How Bad Are the Giants?

[Scoe]

I disagree on Barkely. I wish they offered him what the eagles offered him and that he was in New York next 3 years.

i think the modern way nfl GMs think about running back and positional value has swung too far that people think all RBs are equal.

that isn’t the case. Barkley, at $38m vs. singletary at $16m, its easy for me. I think Barkley is a difference maker that I would spend the extra.

Giants did do a nice job of saying it was Barkley or we wouldn’t have been able to trade for Burns and sign three OL.

But, they could have figured out a way to do Both. The salary cap was huge.

One player you have to account for on offense. The other is there as an essentially replacement level back .

Do the Chiefs have any wrs close to as good as Tyreek Hill? The have won the last 2 Super Bowl without him, and Tyreek Hill is far better then Saquon. You replace a running back with running backs, ie the 2007 Giants replacing Tiki Barber.

 

[NJHusky]

The Giants in fact did offer Saquon a contract on 3 times, offering him market value. They offered him more then the Eagles did.

Really? That’s not what I remember reading

 

[NJHusky]

Do the Chiefs have any wrs close to as good as Tyreek Hill? The have won the last 2 Super Bowl without him, and Tyreek Hill is far better then Saquon. You replace a running back with running backs, ie the 2007 Giants replacing Tiki Barber.

Comparing a well run team with competent executives, a HOF coach and the best Qb to the giants is farcical.

 

[JohnFSilver]

On salary cap and Barkley. They could have maneuvered. It was a Barkley, or no o line decision.

You can redo deals. Barkley, Nabers, new line, and then you get rid of jones in offseason.

the salary cap, they could have made it work.

This was a philosophical decision as much as a cap decision. Ever giants fan out there think they are bill barnwell.

value > elite production.
On offense , the giants only big money player is Thomas And Jones. Everyone else I would consider a value play.

because of that, you get a replacement level offense. Just a bad job of roster construction. You don’t degrade the roster and expect better results .

 

[JohnFSilver]

Comparing a well run team with competent executives, a HOF coach and the best Qb to the giants is farcical.

hold on, the chiefs have excellent cheap talent at WR, RB and a great great player at qb. If u have the super great qb, you can do what the chiefs and patriotshave done. If you don’t, you have to make up for your qb not being a superstar elite talent.

I would look at building more like the 49ers do with mcaffrey, Samuel, Aiyuk, etc. they are so explosive they help Purdy.

I am finished with dimes. Not good enough. But they improved line, marginally, and added Nabers, but took away Barkley and Waller. That is a net loss talent wise.

 

[NJHusky]

hold on, the chiefs have excellent cheap talent at WR, RB and a great great player at qb. If u have the super great qb, you can do what the chiefs and patriotshave done. If you don’t, you have to make up for your qb not being a superstar elite talent.

I would look at building more like the 49ers do with mcaffrey, Samuel, Aiyuk, etc. they are so explosive they help Purdy.

I am finished with dimes. Not good enough. But they improved line, marginally, and added Nabers, but took away Barkley and Waller. That is a net loss talent wise.

Is the line better? They gave up 5 sacks....That's 85 in a 17 game season...They gave up 85 last year...20 more than the next worst team and 3x more than second best team

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Is the line better? They gave up 5 sacks....That's 85 in a 17 game season...They gave up 85 last year...20 more than the next worst team and 3x more than second best team

Jones also kinda went into a few sacks yesterday. It seems as if his pocket presence has gotten worse. He moved into the pressure multiple times. He also RARELY throws the ball away.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Is the line better? They gave up 5 sacks....That's 85 in a 17 game season...They gave up 85 last year...20 more than the next worst team and 3x more than second best team

I think eye test said they were better. I blane jones for some sacks. Also, play calling too. Jones just doesn’t look as explosive as he did earlier in career with his legs, and is just not accurate enough or have a strong enough arm.

I think guys like Daboll, Josh McDaniel, Eric Bienemy, Mcadoo etc.…they are their living based on work they do. But those guys are have elite qbs who do things that make the offense look easy.

Mahomes, by his ability can really elevate wide receivers and running backs. But, if you put an average qb there, they are going to fall in production.

Trying to find that QB is fantasy. Maybe stroud is next one.

But even a guy like Lamar Jackson, two time mvp but isn’t a great thrower. I don’t think you ca win with him unless great talent around him.

I would do the good competent QB, great talent around route. Right now, giants are operating like Daniel Jones is an all pro. He isn’t. They don’t have enough talent on that offense.

Does anyone think Kirk cousins wouldn’t kill it in San Francisco?

And, the Jones contract isn’t an albatross. That is league average for qb. So, he isn’t killing the cap.

 

[Scoe]

Comparing a well run team with competent executives, a HOF coach and the best Qb to the giants is farcical.

Exactly the best rbs won't carry you to a Super Bowl the best executives, coaches and qbs will.

 

[Improviser]

On salary cap and Barkley. They could have maneuvered. It was a Barkley, or no o line decision.

You can redo deals. Barkley, Nabers, new line, and then you get rid of jones in offseason.

the salary cap, they could have made it work.

This was a philosophical decision as much as a cap decision. Ever giants fan out there think they are bill barnwell.

value > elite production.
On offense , the giants only big money player is Thomas And Jones. Everyone else I would consider a value play.

because of that, you get a replacement level offense. Just a bad job of roster construction. You don’t degrade the roster and expect better results .

Seems like Vikings got a replacement level defense based on what I saw yesterday. 6 new players and Van Finkel did quite a bit for them.

Not sure what their tradeoff was and who they gave up.

 

[Scoe]

hold on, the chiefs have excellent cheap talent at WR, RB and a great great player at qb. If u have the super great qb, you can do what the chiefs and patriotshave done. If you don’t, you have to make up for your qb not being a superstar elite talent.

I would look at building more like the 49ers do with mcaffrey, Samuel, Aiyuk, etc. they are so explosive they help Purdy.

I am finished with dimes. Not good enough. But they improved line, marginally, and added Nabers, but took away Barkley and Waller. That is a net loss talent wise.

The talent was already there before Mccaffrey got to the Niners.

 

[JohnFSilver]

The talent was already there before Mccaffrey got to the Niners.

And, they added him and can pay him.

And on defense they have big money guys too.

First rule of GM.

1. Try not and get worse players.

Everyone saying Singletary was fine. 3.7 ypc and no explosive ability.

I just find some nfl really get into the roster construction part of nfl. The draft, cap space, value…getting the best team value-wise isn’t necessarily best approach.

Winning football games, a player who can affect the game materially, you do not get rid of those players.

 

[Scoe]

And, they added him and can pay him.

And on defense they have big money guys too.

First rule of GM.

1. Try not and get worse players.

Everyone saying Singletary was fine. 3.7 ypc and no explosive ability.

I just find some nfl really get into the roster construction part of nfl. The draft, cap space, value…getting the best team value-wise isn’t necessarily best approach.

Winning football games, a player who can affect the game materially, you do not get rid of those players.

Saquon didn't wanna be a Giant they tried to sign him in 2022. The Niners were already a Super Bowl contender, then they got Mcaffrey. The damage was already done Saquon wasn't sticking for another rebuild, it's time to move on.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Saquon didn't wanna be a Giant they tried to sign him in 2022. The Niners were already a Super Bowl contender, then they got Mcaffrey. The damage was already Saquon wasn't sticking for another rebuild, it's time to move on.

Ok. That is fair. But don’t try and have arm chair Bill Barnwell’s throw out words like value, salary cap constraints, roster management as if difference makers don’t matter.

 

[Deepster]

I feel like Drake Maye can be at least a middle of the pack NFL starter, maybe even a top 10 starter one day. It’s a relief going into next year’s draft knowing the Pats can try to get a left tackle and wide receiver help and not have to worry about a quarterback.

I'm all for optimism, but top 10? Based on what? A few preseason drives?

Just for kicks, which QB is he going to leapfrog?

1. Mahomes
2. Josh Allen
3. Lamar Jackson
4. Jalen Hurts
5. CJ Stroud
6. Jordan Love
7. Jared Goff
8. Tua Tagovailoa
9. Brock Purdy
10. Dak Prescott

 

[TheHorde]

I'm all for optimism, but top 10? Based on what? A few preseason drives?

Just for kicks, which QB is he going to leapfrog?

1. Mahomes
2. Josh Allen
3. Lamar Jackson
4. Jalen Hurts
5. CJ Stroud
6. Jordan Love
7. Jared Goff
8. Tua Tagovailoa
9. Brock Purdy
10. Dak Prescott

I said down the line. He’s almost 10 years younger than Dak so he will outlast him. Purdy is not very good he’s surrounded by an incredible supporting cast. He’s a game manager. I’m not sure how many of the list you cited will even be still playing by the time Maye is 30. I said “can be” not “will be”, by the way. He was drafted third for a reason and has a ton of outstanding tape in college.

 

[Deepster]

I said down the line. He’s almost 10 years younger than Dak so he will outlast him. Purdy is not very good he’s surrounded by an incredible supporting cast. He’s a game manager. I’m not sure how many of the list you cited will even be still playing by the time Maye is 30. I said “can be” not “will be”, by the way. He was drafted third for a reason and has a ton of outstanding tape in college.

Zak Wilson was drafted second. Bryce Young was drafted first.

 

[TheHorde]

Zak Wilson was drafted second. Bryce Young was drafted first.

And your stellar list doesn’t have Joe Burrow on it.

 

[JohnFSilver]

I'm all for optimism, but top 10? Based on what? A few preseason drives?

Just for kicks, which QB is he going to leapfrog?

1. Mahomes
2. Josh Allen
3. Lamar Jackson
4. Jalen Hurts
5. CJ Stroud
6. Jordan Love
7. Jared Goff
8. Tua Tagovailoa
9. Brock Purdy
10. Dak Prescott

Hurts, purdy, goff, Prescott.

Geez. League is terrible at qb, to be honest. Mahomez and Allen, top 2. Jackson is very productive. Everyone else? Mid.

Top picks Murray. burrow, Lawrence, and young are not even in the top 10. So much for tanking.

 

[Deepster]

And your stellar list doesn’t have Joe Burrow on it.

And you still haven’t listed anything remotely realistic why Maye could be top ten.

 

[Deepster]

Hurts, purdy, goff, Prescott.

Geez. League is terrible at qb, to be honest. Machines and Allen, top 2. Jackson is very productive. Everyone else? Mid.

Goff is the only one I’d probably off for Maye and he was a quarter from the Suoer Bowl last year.

Keep in mind these were the same comments on Maye we heard on Mac Jones last two years.

 

[navery12]

Is the line better? They gave up 5 sacks....That's 85 in a 17 game season...They gave up 85 last year...20 more than the next worst team and 3x more than second best team

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Didn’t know where to get the stats but that looks a lot like what I saw. He rarely stepped up and away from the pressure, often fading into it.

 

[JohnFSilver]

looked at sportsrac contract. The giants don't pay anyone on offense except Thomas and Jones.

How do eagles, 49ers, cowboys, and chiefs pay all these players, but giants couldn't afford Barkley.

look at the contracts on offense. Jones, Thomas, and then nothing but bargain basement or rookie contracts. What did they expect?

 

[Improviser]

No bargains in the Giants' basement.

When in business, Filene's Basement had some good bargains for their clothes.

For any who remember the place.