OT - Hamidou Diallo testing Draft Waters

[intlzncster]

This is the Villanova model, really. They've gotten a couple of borderline 5-stars in Brunson and Spellman, but for the most part their team has been made up of guys in the 40-200 recruiting range, and it's served them well.

I hope this is the direction we go in. Make guys in the 30-100 range the priority, and if we can snag the occasional one-and-done on top of it, Andre-style, so be it.

Realistically, it's what we've always done. KO was learning the ropes, and unfortunately fell into the all-eggs-in-one-really-nice-basket trap. With the additions of Killings and Chillious, I hope this changes. He can learn a lot from these dudes.

 

[intlzncster]

And now that the full truth of this "saga" has been revealed... a bunch of you need to seriously consider apologizing to Kevin Ollie. If you don't get it by now - Once Kentucky offered a "scholarship" Hamidou Diallo was never coming here. He is not playing in college - not for one single minute. WAAYYYY too much downside for a kid with great athleticism but a below average jump shot who has had his effort/motor questioned on multiple occasions by multiple people. Guys like him are a dime a dozen in the D-League and playing in professional leagues all over the world.

Those of you who used this as a sign that Ollie and/or Glen Miller were to blame for not getting his commitment (and no, I do not mean all of you, as a number of you like Jaker were spot on that he would never play in college) and used this to propel your Ollie should be fired agendas - Hami WAS NOT COMING HERE... even if Calhoun were here recruiting him. In fact, he would not have gone to Duke, either. Coach K would not allow a kid to use him like this.

We wanted (and needed him) to actually PLAY. Calipari does not. Hami does not want to have to play a minute in college. He knows that his game is limited, and any prolonged playing time in college will diminish his value. His "stock" will never be higher than it is right now, going into this draft.

Give him and his camp a lot of credit - they have played this game brilliantly. They have circumvented the current NBA rules which seemingly force kids to play at least one year of college baxketball (or professionally somewhere else like Emmanuel Mudiay did) quite impressively. Play lame competition for half a year in high school (and don't even play well), go to Kentucky for half a year and PRACTICE... showcase your skills without damaging your ridiculously over-hyped reputation... and you can get drafted in the 1st round, procure a guaranteed 3-year contract without ever having to prove you have the required skills (you know, like maybe a decent jump shot, for one) to actually play in the NBA.

It sucks that he used us, no question. If it makes any of you feel any better, he is obviously using Calipari and Kentucky, as well.

OK, but he hasn't left yet.

 

[Matrim55]

And now that the full truth of this "saga" has been revealed... a bunch of you need to seriously consider apologizing to Kevin Ollie.

No – whether the kid stays or goes, Ollie blew it by going all-in on him and failing to recruit Brown, in particular. That cost us in a big way last year, and will cost us in a big way this year as well.

Ollie deserves to take heat for that. Recruiting has to get better, and that starts with Ollie getting a better feel, and keeping his finger on the pulse. Hopefully Chillious can help in that regard.

 

[intlzncster]

Hopefully Chillious can help in that regard.

And thinking about it, if he can't, then KO will no longer be employed at UCONN. Chili has 25 years at this grind. KO needs to become the student here. Or he's done.

 

[Matrim55]

 

[Walker11]

Yes, NBA guys struggle with the ladies

Inside the 'Tinderization' of today's NBA
Inside the 'Tinderization' of today's NBA

I didn't say that. All I am saying is that it's gotta be nice to be the man and adored by all in Lexington and arguably better than sifting through the basketball groupies trying to get pregnant on Tinder. The college experience is awesome. That's all. I did also say he should go pro if he is going in the 1st

 

[intlzncster]

Yes, NBA guys struggle with the ladies

Inside the 'Tinderization' of today's NBA
Inside the 'Tinderization' of today's NBA

No joke, a lot of pros in all the major sports miss college life. You've got thousands of attractive, relatively imature/free, coeds living just doors away from you. It's like heaven for a big time athlete. More to watch out for on the road in the League.

 

[Chief00]

And now that the full truth of this "saga" has been revealed... a bunch of you need to seriously consider apologizing to Kevin Ollie. If you don't get it by now - Once Kentucky offered a "scholarship" Hamidou Diallo was never coming here. He is not playing in college - not for one single minute. WAAYYYY too much downside for a kid with great athleticism but a below average jump shot who has had his effort/motor questioned on multiple occasions by multiple people. Guys like him are a dime a dozen in the D-League and playing in professional leagues all over the world.

Those of you who used this as a sign that Ollie and/or Glen Miller were to blame for not getting his commitment (and no, I do not mean all of you, as a number of you like Jaker were spot on that he would never play in college) and used this to propel your Ollie should be fired agendas - Hami WAS NOT COMING HERE... even if Calhoun were here recruiting him. In fact, he would not have gone to Duke, either. Coach K would not allow a kid to use him like this.

We wanted (and needed him) to actually PLAY. Calipari does not. Hami does not want to have to play a minute in college. He knows that his game is limited, and any prolonged playing time in college will diminish his value. His "stock" will never be higher than it is right now, going into this draft.

Give him and his camp a lot of credit - they have played this game brilliantly. They have circumvented the current NBA rules which seemingly force kids to play at least one year of college baxketball (or professionally somewhere else like Emmanuel Mudiay did) quite impressively. Play lame competition for half a year in high school (and don't even play well), go to Kentucky for half a year and PRACTICE... showcase your skills without damaging your ridiculously over-hyped reputation... and you can get drafted in the 1st round, procure a guaranteed 3-year contract without ever having to prove you have the required skills (you know, like maybe a decent jump shot, for one) to actually play in the NBA.

It sucks that he used us, no question. If it makes any of you feel any better, he is obviously using Calipari and Kentucky, as well.

He was Glen's and KO's number one priority. We let other recruits fall by the wayside as we romanced Diallo. I said way back he was not coming here but Glen was assuring everyone he was. So I should apologize for that?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I said way back he was not coming here but Glen was assuring everyone he was. So I should apologize for that?

I appreciate your troll game as much as anyone but you're straight up lying here. You have to be more subtle when you revise history.

 

[LStudfellow]

No – whether the kid stays or goes, Ollie blew it by going all-in on him and failing to recruit Brown, in particular. That cost us in a big way last year, and will cost us in a big way this year as well.

Ollie deserves to take heat for that. Recruiting has to get better, and that starts with Ollie getting a better feel, and keeping his finger on the pulse. Hopefully Chillious can help in that regard.

Ok... but 20/20 hindsight is perfect. You are usually a voice of reasoned, supported opinions and explanations on here Matrim... so I am somewhat surprised by your looking back and now saying Ollie blew it AND he should have realized the collateral damage it might have caused with other recruits. It is quite plausible that Hamidou led him and the entire staff to believe he was coming here up until right before he announced his decision.

In fact, here is a quote directly from you on January 4th:

"Which just goes to show that none of the insiders know a damn thing until the kid himself makes the move. Two weeks ago he was a lock to play at UConn, and two days ago he was a lock to play at Kentucky, and now he's not going to play at all, right?

Predicting what a teenager will do is brutally hard. Predicting what a teenager will do when there's fame and millions of dollars on the line?

As a wise man once said, "take it with a grain of salt."


Accurate words from you, per usual. The general opinion on this board, in fact, right up through the Auburn game just 11 days before his announcement was that he was committing to us. Hamidou attending that game was supposed to be the final step. He certainly did not say or do anything to lead any of us to think otherwise. But now you say Ollie should have known, when none of us really did? KO needs to do better, but asking him to be Kreskin is a bit much, don't you think? Kids at that age can be really good at being deceptive, when they want to be.

There are legitimate recent events that Ollie does deserve heat for: taking MAL's commitment for granted by not going to any of his games this winter, for example, is definitely one of them. But for anyone, even you, to say he should have known he was not getting Hamidou sooner - which is what you are implying - is unfair as you even said yourself in January.

Let me also say that I, like you, did not see Hamidou as a savior for us either. We needed and still need more shooters from the wing position, not guys who are drivers but can't hit a consistent jumper, even when open. And then had questions about his consistent effort during games, too? We had enough of that already this year.

 

[auror]

No – whether the kid stays or goes, Ollie blew it by going all-in on him and failing to recruit Brown, in particular. That cost us in a big way last year, and will cost us in a big way this year as well.

Ollie deserves to take heat for that. Recruiting has to get better, and that starts with Ollie getting a better feel, and keeping his finger on the pulse. Hopefully Chillious can help in that regard.

This is incredibly easy to second guess, but very lazy to do so without laying out the options they had at the time and their likelihoods.

I think it's safe to say we were 40-60% likely to land Diallo at the time a decision had to be made on continuing perusing or choosing to pursue other options. The fact that he didn't choose us doesn't change those odds at the time. Certainly Miller thought it was that or higher, which is probably one reason he lost his job (unfairly, perhaps).

Chaundee Brown cut us from his top 4 in August '16. So sometime inbetween March (when he reported we were one of the two recruiting him the hardest) and August you think we failed to recruit him, maybe by backing off intensity or prioritizing Hamidou. Considering Kansas was heavily involved and obviously he liked Wake since he went there (and they were the other of the hardest 2), I'd say we were no better than 33% chance to land Brown at the time.

I'll take prioritizing the 50% top 10 guy in our backyard over the 33% top 50 guy from FL everytime.

 

[EBonz30]

I said we shouldn't worry about Diallo, not sure why we did. MAL was the guy and we let him slip away too, embarrassing.

He was Glen's and KO's number one priority. We let other recruits fall by the wayside as we romanced Diallo. I said way back he was not coming here but Glen was assuring everyone he was. So I should apologize for that?

 

[Fishy]

I think we've done all the post-mortems we can possibly do on recruiting.

No sense worrying about it anymore.

 

[pj]

The general opinion on this board, in fact, right up through the Auburn game just 11 days before his announcement was that he was committing to us. Hamidou attending that game was supposed to be the final step. He certainly did not say or do anything to lead any of us to think otherwise. But now you say Ollie should have known, when none of us really did?

I won't speak for the board's general opinion, but I for one was a skeptic from August 2017 on. If he had wanted to play college ball at UConn, he had the opportunity to enroll for fall 2017, we had the scholly, his friend Mamadou was here, he was not going to develop as a basketball player at Putnam Science Academy, and in fact he didn't. It made no sense to pick PSA over UConn.

When he didn't enroll for the fall, I knew he wasn't enthusiastic about coming to UConn and there was a substantial chance that he would not. I didn't know if the alternatives were Kentucky, pros, whatever, his strategy didn't make sense to me, but I knew there was a giant risk he would never play here.

I can't imagine how the coaches could have thought he was theirs. If so, giant miscalculation. Did they push for a 2017 commitment from him? They must have - so how could they not know he was resistant to playing for us?

 

[auror]

I won't speak for the board's general opinion, but I for one was a skeptic from August 2017 on. If he had wanted to play college ball at UConn, he had the opportunity to enroll for fall 2017, we had the scholly, his friend Mamadou was here, he was not going to develop as a basketball player at Putnam Science Academy, and in fact he didn't. It made no sense to pick PSA over UConn.

When he didn't enroll for the fall, I knew he wasn't enthusiastic about coming to UConn and there was a substantial chance that he would not. I didn't know if the alternatives were Kentucky, pros, whatever, his strategy didn't make sense to me, but I knew there was a giant risk he would never play here.

I can't imagine how the coaches could have thought he was theirs. If so, giant miscalculation. Did they push for a 2017 commitment from him? They must have - so how could they not know he was resistant to playing for us?

It's not black and white though. Even when he didn't come in the fall. What was the likelihood of him coming? Do you risk 75% chance of a top 10 guy or look elsewhere? I do. How about 50%? Still yes, I think. 25%? Maybe not.

 

[pj]

It's not black and white though. Even when he didn't come in the fall. What was the likelihood of him coming? Do you risk 75% chance of a top 10 guy or look elsewhere? I do. How about 50%? Still yes, I think. 25%? Maybe not.

Agreed, you keep recruiting him, because kids can do irrational things. But you don't count on him, and you may not have all the coaches spending months at his games when they could have been spending a bit of time with MAL, not to mention all the New England 2018 recruits was lost ground with.

 

[Matrim55]

Ok... but 20/20 hindsight is perfect. You are usually a voice of reasoned, supported opinions and explanations on here Matrim... so I am somewhat surprised by your looking back and now saying Ollie blew it AND he should have realized the collateral damage it might have caused with other recruits. It is quite plausible that Hamidou led him and the entire staff to believe he was coming here up until right before he announced his decision.

In fact, here is a quote directly from you on January 4th:

"Which just goes to show that none of the insiders know a damn thing until the kid himself makes the move. Two weeks ago he was a lock to play at UConn, and two days ago he was a lock to play at Kentucky, and now he's not going to play at all, right?

Predicting what a teenager will do is brutally hard. Predicting what a teenager will do when there's fame and millions of dollars on the line?

As a wise man once said, "take it with a grain of salt."


Accurate words from you, per usual. The general opinion on this board, in fact, right up through the Auburn game just 11 days before his announcement was that he was committing to us. Hamidou attending that game was supposed to be the final step. He certainly did not say or do anything to lead any of us to think otherwise. But now you say Ollie should have known, when none of us really did? KO needs to do better, but asking him to be Kreskin is a bit much, don't you think? Kids at that age can be really good at being deceptive, when they want to be.

There are legitimate recent events that Ollie does deserve heat for: taking MAL's commitment for granted by not going to any of his games this winter, for example, is definitely one of them. But for anyone, even you, to say he should have known he was not getting Hamidou sooner - which is what you are implying - is unfair as you even said yourself in January.

Let me also say that I, like you, did not see Hamidou as a savior for us either. We needed and still need more shooters from the wing position, not guys who are drivers but can't hit a consistent jumper, even when open. And then had questions about his consistent effort during games, too? We had enough of that already this year.

I've changed my tune as I've learned more – from folks who are close to the program, and folks I trust – about how thoroughly we ignored quality players like Brown, Harvey & Beatty for fear of "scaring off" Diallo.

I'm also not saying that Ollie "should have known." Kids are kids. But it's very much his job to make sure we don't get caught in situations where we're at a talent deficit because we spent two years tilting at a 5-star windmill. As optimistic as I was in January, the departures and losses on the recruiting trail have shown my rosier-than-most outlook to be misplaced.

The good news is that it does look like he's learned a lesson. He made a necessary change to the staff, for one. For two, our pursuit of Waters, and the fact that we went after & signed Anderson so early, suggests he's not going to be waiting on talents like Quickley (for example) anymore. No more white whales, just good players we can hopefully sign, keep and develop.

Learning to run a program takes time, btw, so even if we have another subpar year I don't think KO should be fired (unless it's an absolute catastrophe). I'll be very worried, though, if we have a bad year next year, and a bad time on the recruiting trail, and it's because of the same things we just experienced. If that's the case KO will be, and should be, in trouble.

 

[auror]

I'm also not saying that Ollie "should have known." Kids are kids. But it's very much his job to make sure we don't get caught in situations where we're at a talent deficit because we spent two years tilting at a 5-star windmill.

Were we chasing a windmill the whole time, though? Or did the kid change his mind and become a windmill?How likely was he to become a windmill vs. sign with another school vs. sign at UConn? How much risk should Ollie take?

Remember, during this timeframe we were doing quite well on the trail, had an excellent class coming in, and were predicted favorites of the conference. There was little chance of a talent deficiency on the roster. Seemed like we had the leeway at the time to take a risk.

But the risk missed, and we rolled snake eyes on a season, and whatever else happened.

Put it this way. If you tell me at the time we had a 50% chance at Diallo, and a 10% chance to have double injuries and a few guys transfer and decommit. I'm still putting the press on Diallo.

 

[Matrim55]

Were we chasing a windmill the whole time, though? Or did the kid change his mind and become a windmill?How likely was he to become a windmill vs. sign with another school vs. sign at UConn? How much risk should Ollie take?

Remember, during this timeframe we were doing quite well on the trail, had an excellent class coming in, and were predicted favorites of the conference. There was little chance of a talent deficiency on the roster. Seemed like we had the leeway at the time to take a risk.

But the risk missed, and we rolled snake eyes on a season, and whatever else happened.

Put it this way. If you tell me at the time we had a 50% chance at Diallo, and a 10% chance to have double injuries and a few guys transfer and decommit. I'm still putting the press on Diallo.

Agree, but if you tell me we have a 50% chance at Diallo and a 50% chance at Brown, I don't stop recruiting Brown, or Harvey, or Beatty, or whoever.

 

[pj]

If we have an 80% chance of Diallo and Brown is ready to commit, accept Brown's commitment and if Diallo is "scared" of the competition, maybe he wasn't worth waiting for.

 

[LStudfellow]

I've changed my tune as I've learned more – from folks who are close to the program, and folks I trust – about how thoroughly we ignored quality players like Brown, Harvey & Beatty for fear of "scaring off" Diallo.

I'm also not saying that Ollie "should have known." Kids are kids. But it's very much his job to make sure we don't get caught in situations where we're at a talent deficit because we spent two years tilting at a 5-star windmill. As optimistic as I was in January, the departures and losses on the recruiting trail have shown my rosier-than-most outlook to be misplaced.

The good news is that it does look like he's learned a lesson. He made a necessary change to the staff, for one. For two, our pursuit of Waters, and the fact that we went after & signed Anderson so early, suggests he's not going to be waiting on talents like Quickley (for example) anymore. No more white whales, just good players we can hopefully sign, keep and develop.

Learning to run a program takes time, btw, so even if we have another subpar year I don't think KO should be fired (unless it's an absolute catastrophe). I'll be very worried, though, if we have a bad year next year, and a bad time on the recruiting trail, and it's because of the same things we just experienced. If that's the case KO will be, and should be, in trouble.

Got it - and I appreciate your further explanation Matrim. I am in the same camp as you and others that unless next year is a disaster KO should not be fired. At the same time he does need to show that he has learned from a number of mistakes he made over the last 12 to 24 months... and become better in certain in-game situations as well.

The last month or so things seem to be heading back in a positive direction, but I also will reserve judgement until we see concrete evidence: a.k.a. a couple of actual commitments from guys who can contribute immediately (either next year or the year after) AND have the right "ten toes in" mindset.

 

[Jaker]

You guys need to give this one a rest, he will never play college hoops. At the end of the day, it was no big loss.

 

[BUConn10]

Kevin Durant me-too culture brings Kevin Knox to Kentucky today officially. We live in a culture (primarily in basketball I'd say mainly due to recent moves of the games' stars) where the most talented teams are now the premier destinations for more talent and the team getting fed on at the middle and bottom become talent pools for the current top teams when their guys transfer out at the end of the year, these teams' best hope really is to wait their turn until they got hot so they can get that temporary recruiting bump in hopes of keeping it rolling. No one wants to be a loser in the twitter and Instagram world, everything is too visible.

"Minutes available" and "how big is my role going to be" only apply to teams who lose. In this current landscape, the only way to pull yourself up is to have a great season and capitalize on it each year thereafter on the recruiting front, stock talent deep to sustain a less than ideal season. Can't rely on the name on the front of the jersey or banners hanging in the gym anymore to reel in a kid.

All but confirms Diallo is staying in the draft, he got his spot poached. Cal literally has top 5 kids waiting to poach the spots of other top 5 kids. Meanwhile the rest of the basketball world has to play by normal laws of physics.

And before someone quotes saying the rehashed "something something Cal only one title", your right, their results have been atrocious over the last 8, should have used our blueprint instead.

 

[tcf15]

 

[JSM1970]

They just interviewed him, incredibly likable kid