OT: Giants

[8893]

You forgot McDaniels

And Belichick.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

And Belichick.

And Saban.

 

[8893]

And Saban.

And Hurley.

Wait, what?

 

[CardiacAndre7]

And Pitino

 

[HuskyHawk]

Seeing rumors or Saban and Patricia. Those who are supposedly in the know around New England say that Patricia is the more Belichick like guy over McDaniels. Very smart. It seems clear that Detroit wants him. He might prefer NY.

 

[Waquoit]

And Belichick.

Exactly. Trade Belichick for the Gints number 1 plus a few other goodies. Next man up for the coaching staff and front office. Better a year too early than a year too late. It's the Patriot Way!

 

[The Viking]

Regarding Patricia, the Pats defense is bizarre statistically

yards per attempt - 31st best
points allowed - 5th best
Pct of drives ending in a score - 6th best
Turnovers -25th best
Sacks - 10th best
Penalties - 24th best

So Negatives:
Give up yards
Don't create turnovers
Create penalties

Positives
Sack the QB
Don't allow points

Not sure if they simply go with a bend but don't break approach - if they just are really tough in the Red Zone - whatever. I don't watch a lot of Pats games.

He's a very smart guy, he's been working under Belicheck for awhile. Considering Gettleman wants to become old school tough in the trenches, play northeast football, I can see why tehy might hire him. He's from NY, has that Northeast mentality, has a degree in aeronautical engineering so he's not an "idiot", hopefully he would be smart enough to know clock management.

I guess he's OK for me as long as he finds a quality offensive coordinator. The bottom line for me is this draft is absolutely huge for this franchise. The draft, along with what Gettleman does to this roster before preseason is the biggest story of the year for the franchise, more than the head coach.

 

[upstater]

Regarding Patricia, the Pats defense is bizarre statistically

Not sure if they simply go with a bend but don't break approach - if they just are really tough in the Red Zone - whatever. I don't watch a lot of Pats games.

This has been the same kind of statistic since Belichick arrived in New England. It doesn't change much. Bottom 3rd of the league in yardage given up, top third in points.

It's a combination of bend-but-don't-break, tough red zone D, and having Brady leading one of the top offenses (i.e. Time of Possession, opposing teams must play from behind and thereby rack up passing yards).

 

[KembaStepback]

For HC, I think my preference is Shurmur. He only has 2 yrs as HC of the Browns, so I'll give him a pass. He lead a very injured Vikings offense to a first round bye. Schwartz couldn't do anything with a talented Lions roster. I like McDaniels. Not sure on Patricia. Belichick isn't happening and Im not really into Saban.

So with that said, Im hearing that Shurmur and Keenum could be a package deal. Now...im not sold on Keenum, but im curious as to what kind of deal he would get/want. A lot depends on how he plays in the playoffs. If he would take a shorter term deal with reasonable money Id have to consider it. If that's the case they could trade down and address the other glaring issues like OL LB and RB.

 

[whaler11]

The 'favorite', 'all signs point to', 'early leader' rumors for coaching searches have about as much validity as Flugar's rumors about horse trading.

I think it's all click bait.

So far the leaders were: Schwartz, Schumur, Wilks and now Patricia. The media guys really covering their bases here.

About a week ago I sent some friends a text.

“No way in the world would I ever hire Patricia as a head coach”


I should have known what that would lead too.

 

[KembaStepback]

I am just happy they're taking their time with this. Make sure you get the right guy with the right plan.

 

[intlzncster]

Seeing rumors or Saban and Patricia. Those who are supposedly in the know around New England say that Patricia is the more Belichick like guy over McDaniels. Very smart. It seems clear that Detroit wants him. He might prefer NY.

Well, he is an actual rocket scientist by trade.

 

[intlzncster]

Exactly. Trade Belichick for the Gints number 1 plus a few other goodies. Next man up for the coaching staff and front office. Better a year too early than a year too late. It's the Patriot Way!

Well, if you believe this source, the price would be 3 1st rounders. lol

If I'm Kraft, I still wouldn't do it.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

About a week ago I sent some friends a text.

“No way in the world would I ever hire Patricia as a head coach”


I should have known what that would lead too.

I'm not sold on Patricia either. I don't know a damn thing about the inner workings of the Patriots, but he just screams coordinator to me.

If you're a team like the Lions with an established QB, I think it may not be a bad choice, but with the Giants likely drafting a rookie QB, I'd think you'd want someone with a bit more experience.

To me, it seemed like Pat Shurmur may not have been a bad choice given the QBs he's worked with along with prior HC experience. Sure his record wasn't good with Cleveland, but who's is?

 

[upstater]

Well, if you believe this source, the price would be 3 1st rounders. lol

If I'm Kraft, I still wouldn't do it.

If it's the #2 pick this year? Hmmmm, LOL. I'd say BB and Brady have one more good year in them, so I wouldn't make the trade either. If this were offered in 2019, I'd jump on it. You can have your 4 years of BB so the Patriots can replenish.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Regarding Patricia, the Pats defense is bizarre statistically

yards per attempt - 31st best
points allowed - 5th best
Pct of drives ending in a score - 6th best
Turnovers -25th best
Sacks - 10th best
Penalties - 24th best

So Negatives:
Give up yards
Don't create turnovers
Create penalties

Positives
Sack the QB
Don't allow points

Not sure if they simply go with a bend but don't break approach - if they just are really tough in the Red Zone - whatever. I don't watch a lot of Pats games.

He's a very smart guy, he's been working under Belicheck for awhile. Considering Gettleman wants to become old school tough in the trenches, play northeast football, I can see why tehy might hire him. He's from NY, has that Northeast mentality, has a degree in aeronautical engineering so he's not an "idiot", hopefully he would be smart enough to know clock management.

I guess he's OK for me as long as he finds a quality offensive coordinator. The bottom line for me is this draft is absolutely huge for this franchise. The draft, along with what Gettleman does to this roster before preseason is the biggest story of the year for the franchise, more than the head coach.

As for this season's stats, you might consider a few more details. Like looking at the last ten games. Then considering who they are playing out there. The secondary is strong. The D line is young and has come on late in the year. All three of their best LBs missed much of the season (they may have VanNoy in this week). He's done it with guys cut midseason by other teams.

I think Patricia is definitely the better HC candidate than Josh, although both may get jobs. Josh has a loaded roster to work with.

 

[HuskyHawk]

If it's the #2 pick this year? Hmmmm, LOL. I'd say BB and Brady have one more good year in them, so I wouldn't make the trade either. If this were offered in 2019, I'd jump on it. You can have your 4 years of BB so the Patriots can replenish.

I'd take that next year if we get to keep Patricia. Honestly, I'd trade Brady for another first rounder+ and sign Jimmy G as a free agent. Team would be loaded.

 

[intlzncster]

Regarding Patricia, the Pats defense is bizarre statistically

yards per attempt - 31st best
points allowed - 5th best
Pct of drives ending in a score - 6th best
Turnovers -25th best
Sacks - 10th best
Penalties - 24th best

So Negatives:
Give up yards

Don't create turnovers
Create penalties

Positives
Sack the QB
Don't allow points

Not sure if they simply go with a bend but don't break approach - if they just are really tough in the Red Zone - whatever. I don't watch a lot of Pats games.

This has been the same kind of statistic since Belichick arrived in New England. It doesn't change much. Bottom 3rd of the league in yardage given up, top third in points.

It's a combination of bend-but-don't-break, tough red zone D, and having Brady leading one of the top offenses (i.e. Time of Possession, opposing teams must play from behind and thereby rack up passing yards).

It's usually not this lopsided in terms of yards. They had a string of really bad games early in the year on D, the first 5 or 6 or so, that has skewed the results. But they aren't usually in the Top half of the NFL in this category anyway.

One extenuating circumstance with this Pats D is that it is very patchwork. A lot of these guys are relative no namers, outside some in the defensive backfield. They jettisoned a ton up front on the D line and lost a lot at linebacker (incl their best defender - Hightower IR). Their best linebacker is freakin Kyle Van Noy, and he hasn't played in 6 weeks.

But they don't care too much about yards in general. They basically care about not getting beat by the big play, and force the other team to make play after play, looking for mistakes.

They don't care about actual sacks. They care about pressures. Pressure the QB while holding their lane integrity. Very rarely do they ever just let a great pass rusher loose to ad-lib his way to the QB. That's why a guy like Chandler Jones gets so many sacks with the Cardinals vs the Pats. He got some with the Pats, but only within the structure.

Belichick's philosophy is that the only stats that matter in terms of consistent winning are points and turnovers. Red Zone is everything. Turnovers they are usually good at, but in the end, the focus is on turnover differential. Pats are 11th in that category.

 

[intlzncster]

If it's the #2 pick this year? Hmmmm, LOL. I'd say BB and Brady have one more good year in them, so I wouldn't make the trade either. If this were offered in 2019, I'd jump on it. You can have your 4 years of BB so the Patriots can replenish.

Honestly, I think BB is going to go a lot longer than people think. I don't think he'd be happy doing anything else. I won't be surprised at all to see him coach into his 70's. I know he said he wouldn't in passing a while ago. But when he comes up to it, I don't think so.

I think he's too important.

I'd like to see Brady actually regress before I say he has 1 good year in him left. The guy was playing with a bad achilles and shoulder the last portion of this year. He struggled a bit (for him), when he did.

But yeah, Jimmy G came along 3 years too early.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's usually not this lopsided in terms of yards. They had a string of really bad games early in the year on D, the first 5 or 6 or so, that has skewed the results. But they aren't usually in the Top half of the NFL in this category anyway.

One extenuating circumstance with this Pats D is that it is very patchwork. A lot of these guys are relative no namers, outside some in the defensive backfield. They jettisoned a ton up front on the D line and lost a lot at linebacker (incl their best defender - Hightower IR). Their best linebacker is freakin Kyle Van Noy, and he hasn't played in 6 weeks.

But they don't care too much about yards in general. They basically care about not getting beat by the big play, and force the other team to make play after play, looking for mistakes.

They don't care about actual sacks. They care about pressures. Pressure the QB while holding their lane integrity. Very rarely do they ever just let a great pass rusher loose to ad-lib his way to the QB. That's why a guy like Chandler Jones gets so many sacks with the Cardinals vs the Pats. He got some with the Pats, but only within the structure.

Belichick's philosophy is that the only stats that matter in terms of consistent winning are points and turnovers. Red Zone is everything. Turnovers they are usually good at, but in the end, the focus is on turnover differential. Pats are 11th in that category.

Nailed it. And the NY Daily News seems to think Matt Patricia is headed to NY. All signs point to Patriots DC Matt Patricia as next Giants coach

 

[upstater]

I'd take that next year if we get to keep Patricia. Honestly, I'd trade Brady for another first rounder+ and sign Jimmy G as a free agent. Team would be loaded.

Jimmy G is going to get franchised by the 49ers, but if he were available I still have concerns about his durability. Guy took one big hit and separated his shoulder. Not to mention Jimmy G's great run (7 tds and 5 ints) is not the greatest run ever.

 

[Waquoit]

Well, if you believe this source, the price would be 3 1st rounders. lol

If I'm Kraft, I still wouldn't do it.

I would. I'm inclined to believe that trading Jimmy G at below market value was a BB hissy-fit. It would be a win-win, Pats have their succession plan and BB has a new challenge.

 

[intlzncster]

I would. I'm inclined to believe that trading Jimmy G at below market value was a BB hissy-fit. It would be a win-win, Pats have their succession plan and BB has a new challenge.

The majority of that ESPN article didn't pass the smell test for me. Especially that bit. BB's about as emotionless as you can get with roster decisions. And Kraft hasn't made a football decision since he's been there.

I think 3 years from now, assuming health, you'll see BB, TB, and Kraft still working together. jmo though

 

[Waquoit]

The majority of that ESPN article didn't pass the smell test for me. Especially that bit. BB's about as emotionless as you can get with roster decisions. And Kraft hasn't made a football decision since he's been there.

I think Kraft made one here. BB wanted to keep JG and cut TB12 loose. Kraft said no freakin' way.

 

[upstater]

I would. I'm inclined to believe that trading Jimmy G at below market value was a BB hissy-fit. It would be a win-win, Pats have their succession plan and BB has a new challenge.

I think it was likelier a bad gamble.

First of all, there were many articles 2 months ago about how the 49ers paid too much. But secondly, Hue Jackson complained that the front office never offered the Patriots anything for Garoppolo, and that they knocked off for the day after lunch at the deadline. But the 3rd factor in all this, even if they had made an offer, they made it with the Houston texans pick, which was closer to pick #20-22 at the time (the deadline came before D. Watson was injured), and at the time, the 49ers were winless and their pick was #34.