OT: Connecticut College

[HuskyHawk]

Don't try to understand it. After going through the process with 2 kids and seeing where their friends got into and where they didn't, I'm convinced it's a total crapshoot applying to schools. That's why I always suggest just applying to as many schools as you think fit your criteria. You just don't know these days.

It’s too complicated. But look at the recent Ivy stats and it tells you a lot. As @upstater said, can you signal that you’ll pay full tuition? That helps. Does your High School have others applying? Who are they?

 

[Duncan Idaho]

@August_West you ever play at Stash's in New London back in the day? Stash and his kid opened up On the Waterfront. It use to be a Chuck's Steakhouse

 

[BPT2Storrs]

For those talking standardized testing (and if any of you are lawyers or doctors), does the LSAT or MCAT really gauge how good you’ll do in law school/med school or in the profession?

 

[husky429]

For those talking standardized testing (and if any of you are lawyers or doctors), does the LSAT or MCAT really gauge how good you’ll do in law school/med school or in the profession?

I don't know. GRE I have an issue with because it's just a catch-all for grad schools that don't have enough applicants to have their own test. Not really a fan of it. Doesn't make sense to have a general test for specialized grad schools to me.

LSAT: "The data showed that the LSAT continues to be the best individual predictor of 1L law school grades. Interestingly, a combination of LSAT score and GPA is an even better predictor than the LSAT alone." The Art of Law School – Helping You Succeed in Law School does-your-lsat-score-predict-law-school-success/#The_truth_is_that_your_LSAT_score_does_serve_as_the_best_predictor_for_your_performance

MCAT seems to show that it's a good predictor of medical school success, but less as a resident. MCAT scores and medical school success: Do they correlate?.

I have no idea if either of these are legit sources, and I'm not taking the time to look elsewhere. Just the first results on a quick google search.

We're talking about SAT/ACT though. I am a teacher/administrator--that's all I have enough experience with to speak with a semblance of authority.

 

[HuskyHawk]

For those talking standardized testing (and if any of you are lawyers or doctors), does the LSAT or MCAT really gauge how good you’ll do in law school/med school or in the profession?

Many years ago I read that the LSAT was the most predictive of the standardized tests. I think it’s the logic questions. Saved my butt. My first three semesters at UConn sucked, so my GPA was meh. But scored 99.x percentile on the LSAT so I got in to several schools.

I think they should stick with the SAT/ACT and if they need to, devalue it. Test optional isn’t good.

 

[husky429]

Many years ago I read that the LSAT was the most predictive of the standardized tests. I think it’s the logic questions. Saved my butt. My first three semesters at UConn sucked, so my GPA was meh. But scored 99.x percentile on the LSAT so I got in to several schools.

I think they should stick with the SAT/ACT and if they need to, devalue it. Test optional isn’t good.

It makes sense. SAT/ACT is a general test for a general degree. GRE is so weak because it's a general test for a specialized degree. LSAT/MCAT are probably somewhere right in the middle.

 

[Chief00]

They have good play productions at Conn College. My favorite is South Pacific in the summer.

 

[August_West]

@August_West you ever play at Stash's in New London back in the day? Stash and his kid opened up On the Waterfront. It use to be a Chuck's Steakhouse

Yup. That was a crazy place. Could be rough at times.

 

[8893]

Many years ago I read that the LSAT was the most predictive of the standardized tests. I think it’s the logic questions. Saved my butt. My first three semesters at UConn sucked, so my GPA was meh. But scored 99.x percentile on the LSAT so I got in to several schools.

I think they should stick with the SAT/ACT and if they need to, devalue it. Test optional isn’t good.

Agree, and similar experience here: middling GPA from UConn because I worked 25-30 hours a week, partied too much and rarely attended class, but really high LSAT scores helped me (and also pegged me as a likely under-achiever for the schools I really wanted, including UConn Law, which later admitted me on transfer and gave me a scholarship).

The thing I wonder about the SATs and LSATs though is the extent to which they can be gamed with enough practice. There is no question that my Kaplan LSAT prep, and a great instructor, helped me improve my scores, but I also spent a ton of time doing practice tests, listening to the tapes, etc. To some extent, access to those resources may be limited; but I paid for it all myself with money I earned while working and going to school, so I'm not sure what privilege would have to do with it. Like anything, you just have to want it badly enough to put in the work.

 

[upstater]

Legend has it that the Harvard boys used to say “Smith to bed, Holyoke to wed.”

I heard this applied to totally different schools. And Smith is generally a much tonier school than Holyoke. When I was in Boston in the 80s, it was Lesley for the first, Wellesley for the second.

 

[upstater]

Asking because of what we went through 20+ years ago with my daughter. She had a sterling academic resume, with an 800 verbal, 670 math sats. She was offered next to nothing from 2 of 3 schools she applied to. I didn’t understand what they were looking for. Still don’t.

He was 1990s as well. I dont understand what it was. He had excellent grades and SATs. But there's now a huge difference between boys with good stats and girls with good stats. There's a huge deficit of boys performing well for grades and/or SATs. We're going to approach 2 great girls for every 1 great boy soon. That means it's much harder for girls.

As for me, I was in the 1980s. I turned down a full scholarship at Vassar to go to Boston U. Other schools I got into, like Penn and Cornell, didn't give me a dime. They gave me gov't loans, and that's it. Not even $1. Tuition was $16k at the time.

 

[upstater]

My only real problem with the new "testing optional" approach is that a lot of middle class students are getting crowded out, and their places at top universities are being snatched away.

Otherwise, there have been schools that have been optional for decades, and they have treated the application process holistically. These schools are few and far between, like Oberlin.

 

[husky429]

Agree, and similar experience here: middling GPA from UConn because I worked 25-30 hours a week, partied too much and rarely attended class, but really high LSAT scores helped me (and also pegged me as a likely under-achiever for the schools I really wanted, including UConn Law, which later admitted me on transfer and gave me a scholarship).

The thing I wonder about the SATs and LSATs though is the extent to which they can be gamed with enough practice. There is no question that my Kaplan LSAT prep, and a great instructor, helped me improve my scores, but I also spent a ton of time doing practice tests, listening to the tapes, etc. To some extent, access to those resources may be limited; but I paid for it all myself with money I earned while working and going to school, so I'm not sure what privilege would have to do with it. Like anything, you just have to want it badly enough to put in the work.

SATs can definitely be gamed to an extent. Test-taking strategies can be really important, and tutors can teach you common types of math problems that are on the test every year, for example. When I was tutoring SATs for rich kids in Farmington/Simsbury/Avon my first couple years teaching for extra cash, I think with 6 months of tutoring 1 day per week, you could expect your score 100-150 points. Twice a week the average would push 170 point improvement. Any more than that was exceptionally rare.

I don't know anything about the LSAT except that my wife's scores were way better than mine--which weren't even that bad--and I'm bitter about it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Agree, and similar experience here: middling GPA from UConn because I worked 25-30 hours a week, partied too much and rarely attended class, but really high LSAT scores helped me (and also pegged me as a likely under-achiever for the schools I really wanted, including UConn Law, which later admitted me on transfer and gave me a scholarship).

The thing I wonder about the SATs and LSATs though is the extent to which they can be gamed with enough practice. There is no question that my Kaplan LSAT prep, and a great instructor, helped me improve my scores, but I also spent a ton of time doing practice tests, listening to the tapes, etc. To some extent, access to those resources may be limited; but I paid for it all myself with money I earned while working and going to school, so I'm not sure what privilege would have to do with it. Like anything, you just have to want it badly enough to put in the work.

It's funny how close our paths were in some ways, same years at UConn. Early challenges at UConn. UConn law waitlisted me. But my family was in Simsbury then and I really wanted to get further from home than West Hartford.

As for prep, I think it helps for the SAT, but only marginally so. You have to be smart enough and educated enough for the prep to take. I think the vocab is hard for some kids. Schools in less affluent areas need to do better preparing kids. I did no LSAT prep except a few free practice tests. I had never considered law school when a 2 years older friend from UConn was planning to go. He was taking the free practice tests. So I did about 6 of them and never missed a question. That's what made me think maybe I should consider it.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Yup. That was a crazy place. Could be rough at times.

Pretty good bar food though. At least from around ~09-13 if memory serves.

 

[August_West]

Pretty good bar food though. At least from around ~09-13 if memory serves.

Definitely. Fun place too.

My memories there go back to early 90's though. Was a big time biker bar for a bit.

 

[8893]

It's funny how close our paths were in some ways, same years at UConn. Early challenges at UConn. UConn law waitlisted me. But my family was in Simsbury then and I really wanted to get further from home than West Hartford.

As for prep, I think it helps for the SAT, but only marginally so. You have to be smart enough and educated enough for the prep to take. I think the vocab is hard for some kids. Schools in less affluent areas need to do better preparing kids. I did no LSAT prep except a few free practice tests. I had never considered law school when a 2 years older friend from UConn was planning to go. He was taking the free practice tests. So I did about 6 of them and never missed a question. That's what made me think maybe I should consider it.

Funny, UConn Law waitlisted me the first time; I deferred admission to University of Denver Law School, took a year off and worked and reapplied to UConn and they rejected me outright immediately.

I wrote a very direct and somewhat snotty essay for my transfer application after being top of my first year class at Denver, and UConn Law wrote me an apology with my acceptance.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Funny, UConn Law waitlisted me the first time; I deferred admission to University of Denver Law School, took a year off and worked and reapplied to UConn and they rejected me outright immediately.

I wrote a very direct and somewhat snotty essay for my transfer application after being top of my first year class at Denver, and UConn Law wrote me an apology with my acceptance.

Classic. I applied to UConn and UGA and they both waitlisted me. I think my near perfect LSAT made me too confident. So I also worked for a year and reapplied. Same two waitlisted me again but Maryland, Kansas and Florida State accepted me so off I went. By the way, for anyone with future law students out there, I think working between undergrad and law school is hugely beneficial. Almost all the people in the top of my class did that.

 

[Fishy]

My only real problem with the new "testing optional" approach is that a lot of middle class students are getting crowded out, and their places at top universities are being snatched away.

Otherwise, there have been schools that have been optional for decades, and they have treated the application process holistically. These schools are few and far between, like Oberlin.

If you’re a middle class white female, lower your sights by about two levels.

If you’re male, perhaps raise it a level or two. We have somehow managed to completely break education for males.

 

[superjohn]

If you’re a middle class white female, lower your sights by about two levels.

If you’re male, perhaps raise it a level or two. We have somehow managed to completely break education for males.

It's so bad and is still somehow controversial to talk about. It hits across every level of schooling and the numbers are even more bleak for black males. It's a huge problem with terrible societal implications.

 

[upstater]

If you’re a middle class white female, lower your sights by about two levels.

If you’re male, perhaps raise it a level or two. We have somehow managed to completely break education for males.

True. But I think there's a lot that's happened in 30 years to make it so.

As a kid who grew up with no parents in the house until late, and who watched a lot of TV, and who had an Atari and Odyssey game system, it gives me no pleasure to say this because it makes me a hypocrite, but I know this is true from talking to college kids a lot: when you spend a lot a lot a lot of time gaming, there's a lot less time for academics. I could go on, but I see it, I know it. A couple of my students do it 23 hours a day. It sounds like an exaggeration. It's not.

 

[superjohn]

True. But I think there's a lot that's happened in 30 years to make it so.

As a kid who grew up with no parents in the house until late, and who watched a lot of TV, and who had an Atari and Odyssey game system, it gives me no pleasure to say this because it makes me a hypocrite, but I know this is true from talking to college kids a lot: when you spend a lot a lot a lot of time gaming, there's a lot less time for academics. I could go on, but I see it, I know it. A couple of my students do it 23 hours a day. It sounds like an exaggeration. It's not.

That's so far down the list though.

 

[HuskyHawk]

True. But I think there's a lot that's happened in 30 years to make it so.

As a kid who grew up with no parents in the house until late, and who watched a lot of TV, and who had an Atari and Odyssey game system, it gives me no pleasure to say this because it makes me a hypocrite, but I know this is true from talking to college kids a lot: when you spend a lot a lot a lot of time gaming, there's a lot less time for academics. I could go on, but I see it, I know it. A couple of my students do it 23 hours a day. It sounds like an exaggeration. It's not.

We are raising the greatest generation of drone pilots imaginable.

 

[8893]

We are raising the greatest generation of drone pilots imaginable.

I know two people who are intending exactly that career for their college-aged sons.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Classic. I applied to UConn and UGA and they both waitlisted me. I think my near perfect LSAT made me too confident.

Serious question: I take "near perfect" LSAT scores to mean high 170s or thereabouts so how bad were your college grades that you got waitlisted at UConn and Georgia? Did you assault a teacher or something?