OT: Boston Marathon Bombing Suspects

[upstater]

Some interesting stuff on boston.com reporting:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...ho-led-whom/uZnY8vkwoqBomkzmVcrYiN/story.html

Not so sure I buy the scared 19-year old younger brother angle, or the Manson-like mastermind older brother angle. The father says they've been set-up by the FBI. The mother had been spouting 9/11 conspiracy theories, claiming that the United States planned it to make us hate Muslims. Father moves back to Russia a year ago, mother stays here, oldest brother returns to Russia for six months last year, meeting at least six times with a known radical Islamist leader. Younger brother prides himself on being a great liar, and has apparently been foreshadowing some type of harm for months now. Could draw a few different conclusions from that, one of which being that the younger brother may have relished his role of appearing to fit in, all the while awaiting the day he could take part in this plan.

None of that article surprises me, but I draw different conclusions. For one, the mother went back to Dagestan with the father, so her quotes in the last few days come from there. But as for the FBI set-up stuff, the FBI interrogated and investigated the older brother years ago at Russia's request. He was being looked at for terrorism by the FBI years ago. This is why the parents are convinced by a conspiracy. They don't believe the FBI ever stopped watching them and that the FBI used them as patsies.

As for younger brother prides himself on being a great liar, are you referring to his critique of American foreign policy? Also, his point about people equating Islam with terrorism? I can picture people who aren't terrorists making those exact same arguments. In other words, I don't see any inconsistencies there. Plenty of people critique American foreign policy.

 

[8893]

None of that article surprises me, but I draw different conclusions. For one, the mother went back to Dagestan with the father, so her quotes in the last few days come from there. But as for the FBI set-up stuff, the FBI interrogated and investigated the older brother years ago at Russia's request. He was being looked at for terrorism by the FBI years ago. This is why the parents are convinced by a conspiracy. They don't believe the FBI ever stopped watching them and that the FBI used them as patsies.

As for younger brother prides himself on being a great liar, are you referring to his critique of American foreign policy? Also, his point about people equating Islam with terrorism? I can picture people who aren't terrorists making those exact same arguments. In other words, I don't see any inconsistencies there. Plenty of people critique American foreign policy.

I'm referring to this part of the article:

If Tamerlan recorded his thoughts, they have not yet surfaced — at least publicly. His brother left a trail on the Internet, although in an Aug. 7, 2012 tweet, he called himself a ‘‘heavy sleeper and a great liar’’
In March, Dzhokhar tweeted: ‘‘Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.’’ A week and a half earlier, he reminded his followers, ‘‘Never underestimate the rebel with a cause.’’
The day of the bombing, he wrote: ‘‘There are people that know the truth but stay silent & there are people that speak the truth but we don’t hear them cuz they’re the minority’’

As for the mother, I'm referring to the woman who reportedly went to the family house here for facials and said that the mother expressed strident anti-American views, especially about 9/11.

 

[upstater]

I'm referring to this part of the article:

As for the mother, I'm referring to the woman who reportedly went to the family house here for facials and said that the mother expressed strident anti-American views, especially about 9/11.

I thought you were referring to Dzokhar, not Tamerlan. We all know about Tamerlan's youtube and radical views. The stuff Dzokhar spoke about with friends seems innocuous.

As for the mother, the 9/11 stuff does stand out, but I will point out that we have even boneyarders saying the same thing in the last week, and there are plenty of Americans that think of it as an inside job. The FBI stuff comes post interrogation as well. Remember, the mom was giving a facial to the mother of her son's high school friend, and as her son is just 19, that couldn't have been more than 2 or 3 years ago (i.e. after the FBI investigation). So, her views on the FBI were after the incident.

Again, what one woman receiving a facial might regard as anti-American is probably commonly shared among most Muslims in America. I bet most share the critique of American decisions in the Middle East. I would not say the same however about 9/11. I bet that's a fringe belief anywhere you go.

 

[huskypantz]

The mom is an idiot. Take out the 911 conspiracy theory, it doesn't change her stupidity. Her sons had pipe bombs. There's no "pipe bomb club" in high school (at least not in the civilized world). There was no plant - they ran from the cops and tossed IED's at cop cars. Even if the sons were set up at the marathon, their behavior afterwards is just as damning as the video and images around the bombing. She is so brainwashed it's just sad. It sounds like the older brother's views were fueled/supported by her radicalism.

 

[8893]

Ironic shirt the older brother is wearing here:

 

[Adios]

Ironic the priests at a Jesuit high school I went to treated me with a LOT more respect than the laymen (besides the women, they were cool, too). Thank God the priests were more open-minded and thoughtful. My senior-year layman theology teacher used to look at me with scorn. This balding dude looks at a chronically ill kid who knows barely anything about life with such enmity. He wasn't the only one who gave me weird looks.

Personally, I couldn't care, but still reflects how of much of the masses here think. No mercy. Keep stereotyping all the way. Also ironic that this country was created through attempted genocide and there's not much shame. Beating a dead horse (or man, in this case) must be fun. Let it go and let the dead man answer to his Maker. All I know is I do not envy him.

Regarding anti-Americanism, maybe you should start bombing punk bands. The Chinese make video games where you kill American soldiers. Maybe you should bomb them, too. And keep shopping at Walmart while doing so.

 

[8893]

I thought you were referring to Dzokhar, not Tamerlan. We all know about Tamerlan's youtube and radical views. The stuff Dzokhar spoke about with friends seems innocuous.

As for the mother, the 9/11 stuff does stand out, but I will point out that we have even boneyarders saying the same thing in the last week, and there are plenty of Americans that think of it as an inside job. The FBI stuff comes post interrogation as well. Remember, the mom was giving a facial to the mother of her son's high school friend, and as her son is just 19, that couldn't have been more than 2 or 3 years ago (i.e. after the FBI investigation). So, her views on the FBI were after the incident.

Again, what one woman receiving a facial might regard as anti-American is probably commonly shared among most Muslims in America. I bet most share the critique of American decisions in the Middle East. I would not say the same however about 9/11. I bet that's a fringe belief anywhere you go.

I was referring to the younger brother; it's not clear to me which is the one to whom the "great liar" tweet is attributed because that passage is poorly written. I read it as coming from the younger brother, but I can see how you could read it otherwise.

In any event, the younger brother clearly wrote the "I want out" tweet, and even his choice to become a citizen on 9/11 last year can be seen (in retrospect, of course) as more coldly sinister than his older brother's more overt conduct.

We're all obviously trying to read the tea leaves, and all I'm saying is that I can see a different narrative than the one that is emerging. Anything is possible (as we've already seen), but the younger brother just seems too smart and confident to have been under the control of his older brother. I honestly wonder about the possibility of some long-term, time-release "human detonation" a la The Manchurian Candidate, whereby a generation of kids could essentially be bred to live double lives, the sole purpose of which is to acclimate one's outward social life to America, all the while being trained for the day when they will "detonate" and turn on the society in which they have earned the trust of their neighbors. Sounds crazy, but so does every other explanation for this.

 

[8893]

Ironic the priests at a Jesuit high school I went to treated me with a LOT more respect than the laymen (besides the women, they were cool, too). Thank God the priests were more open-minded and thoughtful. My senior-year layman theology teacher used to look at me with scorn. This balding dude looks at a chronically ill kid who knows barely anything about life with such enmity. He wasn't the only one who gave me weird looks.

Personally, I couldn't care, but still reflects how of much of the masses here think. No mercy. Keep stereotyping all the way. Also ironic that this country was created through attempted genocide and there's not much shame. Beating a dead horse (or man, in this case) must be fun. Let it go and let the dead man answer to his Maker. All I know is I do not envy him.

Regarding anti-Americanism, maybe you should start bombing punk bands. The Chinese make video games where you kill American soldiers. Maybe you should bomb them, too. And keep shopping at Walmart while doing so.

Hey Butch, if you're intending to reply to something I wrote, I think you must have misinterpreted it. I'm not making any generalizations or stereotypes about Muslims at all. I am definitely making assumptions about radical Islamists. I don't consider the latter to apply to the former. If you're suggesting that there is any justification for what either of these monsters did, I will definitely disagree with that, too.

 

[Adios]

I don't think there's any justification. No Muslim in the right mind thinks this kind of behavior can be justified. I also think anti-Americanism is stupid and short-sighted.

 

[3uconn]

@BreakingNews: Reports: Boston Marathon bombing suspect awake, responding in writing to questions, officials tell @ABC, @USATODAY, @NBCNews

 

[upstater]

I was referring to the younger brother; it's not clear to me which is the one to whom the "great liar" tweet is attributed because that passage is poorly written. I read it as coming from the younger brother, but I can see how you could read it otherwise.

In any event, the younger brother clearly wrote the "I want out" tweet, and even his choice to become a citizen on 9/11 last year can be seen (in retrospect, of course) as more coldly sinister than his older brother's more overt conduct.

We're all obviously trying to read the tea leaves, and all I'm saying is that I can see a different narrative than the one that is emerging. Anything is possible (as we've already seen), but the younger brother just seems too smart and confident to have been under the control of his older brother. I honestly wonder about the possibility of some long-term, time-release "human detonation" a la The Manchurian Candidate, whereby a generation of kids could essentially be bred to live double lives, the sole purpose of which is to acclimate one's outward social life to America, all the while being trained for the day when they will "detonate" and turn on the society in which they have earned the trust of their neighbors. Sounds crazy, but so does every other explanation for this.

Wow, you are really going off kilter here. You don't "choose" to become a citizen on 9/11. That's when they call you. You become a citizen at the same time as hundreds of others. There's an actual ceremony.

Again, "I want out" and all that other stuff--innocuous stuff that any immigrant might have said. His parents left for their former country for heaven's sake. What does that tell you? They didn't like it here. That's what it tells me. None of this, however, tells you anything about terrorism. It's just common boilerplate stuff a teen immigrant might say.

I think you're way out in conspiracy theorist land with the rest, as in 9/11 inside job territory.

I mean, look at the older brother's youtube site. If you're a sleeper, uh, maybe don't draw attention to yourself? This guy was interrogated by the FBI!

 

[Danzz]

FBI searching for a gang of at least 12 re Boston Bombing.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...unting-12-strong-1844844#.UXM54Yqm6hA.twitter

This article is loaded with inacuracies.

 

[8893]

Wow, you are really going off kilter here. You don't "choose" to become a citizen on 9/11. That's when they call you. You become a citizen at the same time as hundreds of others. There's an actual ceremony.

Again, "I want out" and all that other stuff--innocuous stuff that any immigrant might have said. His parents left for their former country for heaven's sake. What does that tell you? They didn't like it here. That's what it tells me. None of this, however, tells you anything about terrorism. It's just common boilerplate stuff a teen immigrant might say.

I think you're way out in conspiracy theorist land with the rest, as in 9/11 inside job territory.

I mean, look at the older brother's youtube site. If you're a sleeper, uh, maybe don't draw attention to yourself? This guy was interrogated by the FBI!

What I'm saying is that maybe the younger brother was better at it.

Of course the circumstantial evidence is just that--i.e., circumstantial--and not enough on its own to draw any valid conclusions. But here we have corroboration with a lot of direct evidence. We know the younger brother did what he did and the only question now is why. You seem to buy the "brainwashed by older brother" story that has emerged, and all I'm saying is that the evidence is not that clear to me. I think it is just as likely that he was a willing participant.

 

[upstater]

What I'm saying is that maybe the younger brother was better at it.

Of course the circumstantial evidence is just that--i.e., circumstantial--and not enough on its own to draw any valid conclusions. But here we have corroboration with a lot of direct evidence. We know the younger brother did what he did and the only question now is why. You seem to buy the "brainwashed by older brother" story that has emerged, and all I'm saying is that the evidence is not that clear to me. I think it is just as likely that he was a willing participant.

I am not saying at all that he was brainwashed by the older brother. I tend to believe the brother wielded powerful influence on him. But given everything that's been said and written so far by the younger brother, I would classify it (if this were Jeopardy) under "Things an immigrant from the Middle East or Caucasus might say." When the father goes off half-cocked and threatens people, I chalk it up to the fact that his son is being sought in a police dragnet, hours after his other son was shot and run over and then died, rather than considering it a direct threat to America. It's all a matter of context. This doesn't mean I judge it proper or predictable that he said that. Plenty of parents in the same situation would not utter such a thing. But I'm not here to wonder what is normal behavior when your two boys committed a terrorist act, shot two cops, then one died while the younger is being sought. It's likely that anything and everything might be said in such a situation.

 

[UCweCONN]

The wife of the older bomber is an American who converted to Islam and she is quite HOT (in my opinion). Who needs 70 virgins in Heaven when you have her??

 

[babysheep]

Who needs 70 virgins in Heaven when you have her??

Seriously who would even want virgins? Means you get to teach 72 chicks how to have sex. Sounds kind of boring to me.

This is something I've found extra interesting about Islam especially. You wonder who the average person who dies for jihad in the hope of having 72 virgins in heaven (setting aside the ridiculous expectation for a heaven in the first place), and you realize it's probably mostly virgins. It's sad that these boys go through their short lives never getting a piece of ass and they end up voluntarily ending the only life they know they'll get with the expectation that they will be rewarded with 72 chicks whom have never seen a penis before.

Then you start to realize just how deep the insecurity issues go in to Islam with its obsession with virginity and with female sexual repression in just about every way imaginable. I mean nearly all religion tries to control human sexuality -most notably so, women- but Islam just takes it so far. I guess that is the next logical place to take it when you plagiarize as much as Islam does from Christianity and further Judaism.

 

[intlzncster]

Again, "I want out" and all that other stuff--innocuous stuff that any immigrant might have said. His parents left for their former country for heaven's sake. What does that tell you? They didn't like it here. That's what it tells me. None of this, however, tells you anything about terrorism. It's just common boilerplate stuff a teen immigrant might say.

Actually, his dad returned to Eastern Europe because he got the living beat out of him by some Russians, and he was trying to defend some other guy. He couldn't get the medical care he needed here, so he headed home. His dad like it in the US.