OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[ZooCougar]

Just for "ha ha's", I took my own advice and made a list of the best players from each World Cup nation and where they play. I put two names where I thought it would be disputed, trying to give favor to the English player, so as not to seem biased. Then I'll let everyone make up their own minds in terms of the quality of players in each (with the understanding that all the leagues we are discussing are high quality):

Brazil - Neymar (Spain)
Argentina - Messi (Spain)
Spain - Iniesta (Spain) or Costa (Eng) [feel free to pick whichever, but keep in mind that Costa didn't see the field a lot in the WC]
Portugal - Ronaldo (Spain)
Germany - Muller (Germany) or Schweinsteiger (Ger)
France - Ribery (Germany) or Benzema (Spa) [Ribery HAS to be considered the one here, even if he didn't make the Cup]
Holland - Robben (Germany)
England - Gerrard (England) or Sterling (Eng) [I actually think Sterling is the best one they've got, but I didn't want to fight over it]
Uruguay - Suarez (Spain) or Cavani (Fra)
Colombia - James Rodriguez (Spain) or Falcao (Fra)
Ecuador - Valencia (England)
Chile - Sanchez (England) or Vidal (Ita) [I think Vidal is the better player, but for the purposes of this, we're going with Sanchez]
Honduras - Palacios (England)
Iran - Mekounam (Spain)
Belgium - Fellaini (England) or DeBruyne (Ger.)
Russia - Kerzhakov (Russia)
Mexico - Dos Santos (Spain) or Peralta (Mex.)
USA - Dempsey (USA) or Bradley (USA/Can.)
Greece - Samaris (Greece)
Bosnia and Herzegovina - Dzeko (England) or Pjanic (Ita.) [again, I like Pjanic better, but for our purposes...]
Nigeria - Mikel (England)
Ghana - Gyan (UAE) or Muntari (Ita.)
Costa Rica - Navas (Spain) or Ruiz (Eng.) [feel free to choose whichever, but it has to be Navas, really]
Algeria - Bougherra (Qatar) or Mesbah (Ita.)
South Korea - Ja-Cheol (Germany) or Keun-ho (Korea)
Japan - Honda (Italy) or Nagatomo (Ita.)
Australia - Cahill (USA)
Croatia - Modric (Spain)
Cameroon - Song (Spain)
Ivory Coast - Gervinho (Italy) or Kalou (Fra.)
Switzerland - Lichsteiner (Italy) or Shaqiri (Ger.)

So there are my takes (feel free to disagree). By my personal assessments, I guess the score head-to-head is Spain 10 vs. England 7...

By the end of the transfer period most of these guys could be on Barcelona's roster.

 

[SAMCRO]

Dan, I'm not disagreeing that La Liga is the best league right now (i've said it several times throughout this thread), but your example really exemplifies how unbalanced La Liga can be percieved, and how balanced the EPL can be percieved. From the names you referenced above, 10 of the 12 playing in Spain play for 2 teams Real and Barca.Where as the 10 names playing in England are spread across 7 clubs (no more than 2 on any one club).

edit: All but one of the guys playing in Germany play for Bayern Munich; and the 8 in Italy spread across 5 clubs. These numbers really do support the peception of balanced leagues v. top heavy leagues (but in reality La Liga has a lot of depth and is decent at the bottom of the table too.

 

[meyers7]

Dan, I'm not disagreeing that La Liga is the best league right now (i've said it several times throughout this thread), but your example really exemplifies how unbalanced La Liga can be percieved, and how balanced the EPL can be percieved. From the names you referenced above, 10 of the 12 playing in Spain play for 2 teams Real and Barca.Where as the 10 names playing in England are spread across 7 clubs (no more than 2 on any one club). And all but one of the guys playing in Germany play for Bayern Munich

Bingo!

 

[UConnDan97]

Dan, I'm not disagreeing that La Liga is the best league right now (i've said it several times throughout this thread), but your example really exemplifies how unbalanced La Liga can be percieved, and how balanced the EPL can be percieved. From the names you referenced above, 10 of the 12 playing in Spain play for 2 teams Real and Barca.Where as the 10 names playing in England are spread across 7 clubs (no more than 2 on any one club).

edit: All but one of the guys playing in Germany play for Bayern Munich; and the 8 in Italy spread across 5 clubs. These numbers really do support the peception of balanced leagues v. top heavy leagues (but in reality La Liga has a lot of depth and is decent at the bottom of the table too.

Your analysis of my analysis isn't really accurate either. This is not a compilation of World Cup players in this league. This is the cherry-picked "best" player from each country. It stands to reason that 2 of the richest sports teams in the world might contain a disproportionate amount of those players.

If you think the quality of the Spanish league stops at the top two teams, then I'd refer you to the Europa Cup finals for the last 10 years or so. Winners like Sevilla and Athletico, and finalists like Bilbao and Espanyol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UEFA_Cup_and_Europa_League_finals

Seven of a possible eighteen finals in the Europa Cup were Spanish over the last 9 years. These are comprised of teams that are 5th, 6th, and 7th respectively in La Liga. So don't tell me that there's not depth in La Liga, because that's just a ridiculous notion. It's okay to be second best to a league like La Liga. There's no shame in it...

 

[UConnDan97]

Bingo!

Please refer to my post above. "Bingo" was NOT his name-o...

 

[UCFBfan]

Ok I'm sidetracking this pissing contest between La Liga and EPL to discuss our own league....Just saw this article about Las Vegas being possibly the 24th MLS team (I guess they want 24). Here's the link Las Vegas MLS?

So my question is, when will we finally see a relegation system in place. There are cities that pull massive fans for their NASL or USL teams. San Antonio, Sacramento, Orlando (future MLS) all are packing stadiums for non-MLS games. I understand that ownership needs to change their views and this will probably never happen but an honest question...how much more can MLS really expand before becoming too bloated?? 24 teams is massive. In comparison:

Bundesliga - 19 teams
La Liga - 21 clubs
Ligue 1 - 20 clubs
EPL - 20 clubs
Serie A - 20 clubs

So MLS would be at 24. Assuming attendance stays strong and interest continues to rise, do they really think there won't be more major cities wanting in? So when do they start saying, ok, you get a NASL/USL team to cities instead of adding more MLS teams? If the interest is there, which many cities have shown for non-MLS clubs, why not join the rest of the footballing world in regards to how to run your league(s)??

 

[SAMCRO]

Your analysis of my analysis isn't really accurate either. This is not a compilation of World Cup players in this league. This is the cherry-picked "best" player from each country. It stands to reason that 2 of the richest sports teams in the world might contain a disproportionate amount of those players.

If you think the quality of the Spanish league stops at the top two teams, then I'd refer you to the Europa Cup finals for the last 10 years or so. Winners like Sevilla and Athletico, and finalists like Bilbao and Espanyol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UEFA_Cup_and_Europa_League_finals

Seven of a possible eighteen finals in the Europa Cup were Spanish over the last 9 years. These are comprised of teams that are 5th, 6th, and 7th respectively in La Liga. So don't tell me that there's not depth in La Liga, because that's just a ridiculous notion. It's okay to be second best to a league like La Liga. There's no shame in it...

Seriously? Yo uare completely missing my point and what I've been saying all along. I've consistently stated La Liga is the best league and has depth to it (not just top heavy0. I made the same point you just linked to in a different thread that La Liga has dominated UCL and Europa in recent years. My point was that the "analysis" you provided only supported the false perception that la Liga is solely top heavy since 10 of the 12 names you listed played for only 2 teams. In reality La Liga has a lot of depth, even past the top 8. In another post (forget which thread) I pointed out where relegated teams had beaten or tied the top 3 in La Liga last year, so it is not such a lopsided league as people believe. My earlier post, also points this out:
UEFA "Country Coefficients"
2014/15 top 5: Spain (La Liga), England (EPL), Germany (Bundesliga), Portugal (Primiera), Italy (Series A)
2013/14 top 5: Spain, England, Germany, Italy, Portugal
2012/13 top 5: Spain, England, Germany, Italy, Portugal
2011/12 top 5: England, Spain, Germany, Italy, Portugal
2010/11 top 5: England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France

 

[ZooCougar]

Ok I'm sidetracking this pissing contest between La Liga and EPL to discuss our own league....Just saw this article about Las Vegas being possibly the 24th MLS team (I guess they want 24). Here's the link Las Vegas MLS?

So my question is, when will we finally see a relegation system in place. There are cities that pull massive fans for their NASL or USL teams. San Antonio, Sacramento, Orlando (future MLS) all are packing stadiums for non-MLS games. I understand that ownership needs to change their views and this will probably never happen but an honest question...how much more can MLS really expand before becoming too bloated?? 24 teams is massive. In comparison:

Bundesliga - 19 teams
La Liga - 21 clubs
Ligue 1 - 20 clubs
EPL - 20 clubs
Serie A - 20 clubs

So MLS would be at 24. Assuming attendance stays strong and interest continues to rise, do they really think there won't be more major cities wanting in? So when do they start saying, ok, you get a NASL/USL team to cities instead of adding more MLS teams? If the interest is there, which many cities have shown for non-MLS clubs, why not join the rest of the footballing world in regards to how to run your league(s)??

The talent pool can't support 24 teams, therefore MLS must be looking to sign more internationals that they will sell later on down the road.

It's not so much should relegation be implemented, it's more like how could it be implemented? What happens when some team that plays in a 3,000 seat stadium gets promoted?

I would rather see MLS Clubs do what LA has done and have LA Galaxy II that plays in the USL.

 

[UConnDan97]

Ok I'm sidetracking this pissing contest between La Liga and EPL to discuss our own league....Just saw this article about Las Vegas being possibly the 24th MLS team (I guess they want 24). Here's the link Las Vegas MLS?

So my question is, when will we finally see a relegation system in place. There are cities that pull massive fans for their NASL or USL teams. San Antonio, Sacramento, Orlando (future MLS) all are packing stadiums for non-MLS games. I understand that ownership needs to change their views and this will probably never happen but an honest question...how much more can MLS really expand before becoming too bloated?? 24 teams is massive. In comparison:

Bundesliga - 19 teams
La Liga - 21 clubs
Ligue 1 - 20 clubs
EPL - 20 clubs
Serie A - 20 clubs

So MLS would be at 24. Assuming attendance stays strong and interest continues to rise, do they really think there won't be more major cities wanting in? So when do they start saying, ok, you get a NASL/USL team to cities instead of adding more MLS teams? If the interest is there, which many cities have shown for non-MLS clubs, why not join the rest of the footballing world in regards to how to run your league(s)??

As much as I would like to see relegation take place here, I think that there is also a danger to it. The MLS brand is strong and is growing. I'm glad that it's healthy, and I think that it will help us develop world class players some day. But I also think that there's a danger to over-expansion (we may have already done that!). And I also think that the league would suffer if large markets were to be relegated.

A nightmare scenario for the league would be if we relegated the Galaxy, Seattle, and New York in the same year...

 

[UConnDan97]

Seriously? Yo uare completely missing my point and what I've been saying all along. I've consistently stated La Liga is the best league and has depth to it (not just top heavy0. I made the same point you just linked to in a different thread that La Liga has dominated UCL and Europa in recent years. My point was that the "analysis" you provided only supported the false perception that la Liga is solely top heavy since 10 of the 12 names you listed played for only 2 teams. In reality La Liga has a lot of depth, even past the top 8. In another post (forget which thread) I pointed out where relegated teams had beaten or tied the top 3 in La Liga last year, so it is not such a lopsided league as people believe. My earlier post, also points this out:
UEFA "Country Coefficients"
2014/15 top 5: Spain (La Liga), England (EPL), Germany (Bundesliga), Portugal (Primiera), Italy (Series A)
2013/14 top 5: Spain, England, Germany, Italy, Portugal
2012/13 top 5: Spain, England, Germany, Italy, Portugal
2011/12 top 5: England, Spain, Germany, Italy, Portugal
2010/11 top 5: England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France

Sorry I misunderstood your comment. When you led off with, "Dan, I'm not disagreeing....but your example really...", it probably led me down the wrong interpretation of what you were saying. It now sounds like you were saying that you were agreeing, and I should have let the double-negative cancel out...

 

[ZooCougar]

As much as I would like to see relegation take place here, I think that there is also a danger to it. The MLS brand is strong and is growing. I'm glad that it's healthy, and I think that it will help us develop world class players some day. But I also think that there's a danger to over-expansion (we may have already done that!). And I also think that the league would suffer if large markets were to be relegated.

A nightmare scenario for the league would be if we relegated the Galaxy, Seattle, and New York in the same year...

I mentioned before I was looking for a side to support. I'll learn what I can about Inter Milan, but I am kind of getting excited about MLS now.

Over the years I have tried to get into it first with the Metrostars, then DC United and the Wizards, but I could never get into it. Seeing the World Cup in person as my first experience with professional soccer totally spoiled me and the level of play was just abysmal to my own eye. But after what I have seen recently I am probably going to follow SKC the most.

-I live 20 minutes from the stadium. It's so much easier to build a true connection to a team I can go see a couple times a month.

-There is no shortage of detailed coverage in the local media.

-They are in the running to win the Supporter's Shield; which will be an exciting race.

-They are playing in the CONCACAF Champions League, while winning that is a tall order. Victory means a berth if the FIFA Club World Cup..

-No shortage of stars on this team AND they are growing their own talent which is really appealing to me.

What's not to like?

Anyways, this article is somewhat relevant to the conversation.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...-first-days-mls-30-and-other-week-19-thoughts

MLS is developing very quickly. Right now they are artificially maintaining parity but eventually the league won't be able to do that in my opinion.

Clubs like Seattle, LA and KC are doing fantastic jobs with their academies and player development. These clubs don't just want to be big in MLS, they have global aspirations. Eventually some of these less developed franchises aren't going to be able to keep pace and MLS will be stratified.. In short the major markets in the league will have about as much of chance at relegation as Chelsea and Liverpool. Just my .02.

 

[SubbaBub]

La Liga has the best team and the best player. The Bundesliga also has a team and a few players better than anyone in the EPL. The EPL is the better league in the same way the old BE was better than the ACC. Yeah they had UNC and Duke (when they were playing better) but the BE was a better league. The EPL is also English speaking which is big if you want to gain fans in America.

For the earlier US players question, Fulham aka Fulhamerica, the best history in signing US players, though they don't have any right now and they've been relegated. I'd like to think it's not a coincidence. Right now, finding US players in top leagues abroad is tough. Geoff Cameron is the only field player I can think of that is getting regular starts in a top 4 league right now.

 

[UCFBfan]

As much as I would like to see relegation take place here, I think that there is also a danger to it. The MLS brand is strong and is growing. I'm glad that it's healthy, and I think that it will help us develop world class players some day. But I also think that there's a danger to over-expansion (we may have already done that!). And I also think that the league would suffer if large markets were to be relegated.

A nightmare scenario for the league would be if we relegated the Galaxy, Seattle, and New York in the same year...

I agree with you but I really think that there is over expansion happening but it might be ok right now. I'm just curious what is going to happen when 24 teams are prospering and you still have major cities that are hammering for clubs. You can't add more teams, it's just not possible. I know the Big 4 leagues have 32 teams but they have a different make up. You can't put 32 teams in the MLS....it'll just be interesting to see what happens when 24 becomes not enough. It might not get to that point and it might just be that 24 becomes the max for awhile. However, it might not be.....

 

[UCFBfan]

I mentioned before I was looking for a side to support. I'll learn what I can about Inter Milan, but I am kind of getting excited about MLS now.

Over the years I have tried to get into it first with the Metrostars, then DC United and the Wizards, but I could never get into it. Seeing the World Cup in person as my first experience with professional soccer totally spoiled me and the level of play was just abysmal to my own eye. But after what I have seen recently I am probably going to follow SKC the most.

I must say I'm a little jealous that not only do you live close enough to a MLS team but you live close enough to one that is full of rabid fans. I've never been to a Revolution game but I hope to get to one soon but it's not inspiring to think it'll be a quarter full stadium that's not even soccer specific.

 

[whaler11]

Rough night for Sporting.

Thanks for answering the question what subject is more tedious than college football conference 'strength' debates.

 

[ZooCougar]

I must say I'm a little jealous that not only do you live close enough to a MLS team but you live close enough to one that is full of rabid fans. I've never been to a Revolution game but I hope to get to one soon but it's not inspiring to think it'll be a quarter full stadium that's not even soccer specific.

Watching some of the Chicago-San Jose game now. Place is full but it looks like a NASL game compared to SKC, Seattle and Portland.

 

[ZooCougar]

This is the new facility I was talking about. Impressive.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mls/sporting-kc/article791676.html

 

[ZooCougar]

Rough night for Sporting.

Thanks for answering the question what subject is more tedious than college football conference 'strength' debates.

Rougher night for LA. 7-0 loss to Man U and unlike Sporting they predominantly had starters(and Landycakes subbed in) playing in the second half. Just pathetic.

 

[Waquoit]

Rough night for Sporting.

If 4-1 is rough, what do you call 7-0? But Landon Donovan insisted that the result was not embarrassing.

 

[meyers7]

Hmmmm.. This factor is purely subjective.

True, but they don't usually put a lot of money in something they can't sell.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I must say I'm a little jealous that not only do you live close enough to a MLS team but you live close enough to one that is full of rabid fans. I've never been to a Revolution game but I hope to get to one soon but it's not inspiring to think it'll be a quarter full stadium that's not even soccer specific.

The Revs used to be one of the best teams to go see with a good, soccer loving fan base. Unfortunately, playing in front of a 1/3 full +60K football stadium, which is owned by management and thus does not cost them much, out in the suburbs for nearly 20 years has taken its toll. The Revs needsa 20K to 30K soccer specific stadium inside of Boston’s urban ring and everyone knows it. The city of Boston has a great demographic for soccer – a large number of young, international, millennials who favor mass transit over cars. Sadly, the Kraft’s have been too busy swimming in their cash waiting for the best deal possible while letting the Revs wallow. The reason that the Kraft’s are now cozying up to the new Mayor of Boston (Menino was not a soccer fan) is because Revere and Somerville (two inner cities next to Boston with mass transit access) don’t have the money that the Kraft’s seek to maximize their profits while shifting as much risk as possible to the taxpayers (sound familiar Hartford?). Boston has that money; but, finding space for a stadium maybe a challenge. Many believe the reason that Kraft is one the business leaders pushing for a 2024 Summer Olympic bid for Boston is because the Revs would get a post-Olympic downsized main stadium in Boston paid by somebody else.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/ma...olympic-bid/GHU9h2PkeLwJHU6tm9nVvO/story.html

 

[meyers7]

All you've shown is that there seems to be more money in the EPL than La Liga currently.

Well that was one of your "yes's". Just showing you it's actually a "no".

The idea that tv revenue is being compared has no bearing on the quality of the league,

True, but it demonstrates more entertaining. Like I said they don't put money in things they can't sell.

Trouble with the speed and intensity of the league??? Please stop.

Hello, McFly? Really? You're missing a lot there.

 

[meyers7]

Your analysis of my analysis isn't really accurate either. This is not a compilation of World Cup players in this league. This is the cherry-picked "best" player from each country. It stands to reason that 2 of the richest sports teams in the world might contain a disproportionate amount of those players.

If you think the quality of the Spanish league stops at the top two teams, then I'd refer you to the Europa Cup finals for the last 10 years or so. Winners like Sevilla and Athletico, and finalists like Bilbao and Espanyol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UEFA_Cup_and_Europa_League_finals

Seven of a possible eighteen finals in the Europa Cup were Spanish over the last 9 years. These are comprised of teams that are 5th, 6th, and 7th respectively in La Liga. So don't tell me that there's not depth in La Liga, because that's just a ridiculous notion. It's okay to be second best to a league like La Liga. There's no shame in it...

But again, that is ONE way to look at "best league". There are many others. And as I said, depends on how one defines "best league".

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Rougher night for LA. 7-0 loss to Man U and unlike Sporting they predominantly had starters(and Landycakes subbed in) playing in the second half. Just pathetic.

At least Brazil admitted they got embarrassed. I know it was only an exhibition; but, you need to show some pride. The Galaxy showed none.

Heck, my over 40 rec soccer team played last night in 90 F humid heat with no subs. We knew we were screwed, especially as the other team had 2 subs and 3 strong and in-shape forwards. So, we buttoned down the hatches, played a bend; but don’t break defense and managed to win 2 to 1 on a counter that went in about a minute before a thunderstorm line chased us all off the field. We played with pride (and a box of Advil, several ice packs, and possibly a leg transplant or two).

 

[ZooCougar]

At least Brazil admitted they got embarrassed. I know it was only an exhibition; but, you need to show some pride. The Galaxy showed none.

Heck, my over 40 rec soccer team played last night in 90 F humid heat with no subs. We knew we were screwed, especially as the other team has 3 strong and in shape forwards. So, we buttoned down the hatches, played a band; but don’t break defense and managed to won 2 to 1 on a counter that went in about a minute before a thunderstorm lien chased us all off the field. We played with pride (and a box of Advil, several ice packs, and possibly a leg transplant or two).

I saw the interview with the Man U manager after the game. It was his first game, he seemed kind of incredulous. I mean 7-0?