OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[EdgewoodNHV]

Welcome, Sir, to the bandwagon that I have been on since 1996. I may though try and catch a few Barclays games going forward.

Yeah, that's how it started for me -- getting into the World Cup. But once you start watching Premiere League, you get a much better sense of the game and learn a lot more about how it should be played optimally, etc. Though it can be frustrating because suddenly you're rooting for a team which is not full of European and South American All-Stars.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Actually if the kids are in one of the academies
http://academy.demosphere.com/Clubs/index_E.html
I don't believe they are letting the kids play in HS anymore.

That is correct. It was big news in Jersey when it went into effect last year in terms of taking kids away from very successful programs and the cost. I think the same is happening to the girls this year.

Cost is one of my concerns, too. Will only kids with families who have the money be allowed to develop?

 

[BlueMAB]

And yes, I'd like to try and "Americanize" the game and no I won't offer any apologies for that.

So you want to Americanize a niche sport, you find boring, don't like, and can't stop posting about even now after the US has been eliminated. Hmmmm.

 

[BlueMAB]

The "Landycakes" stuff should have died in 2010.

How quickly people have forgotten Algeria.

 

[J187Money]

Games at the Rent are always a good time! If you can get to any of them when they are around I highly recommend it.

Only if I get to meet up with any of you fine fellows.

 

[Gurleyman]

How quickly people have forgotten Algeria.

Or Slovenia. He was a strange whistle away from orchestrating three second half goals in a 3-2 comeback. The one he roofed was world class, as was the set piece to Edu that should have counted. The Bradley goal was set up by a 50-yard diagonal ball onto Altidore's head. His performance in that World Cup is the standard by which future field players should be judged.

 

[Excalibur]

Or Slovenia. He was a strange whistle away from orchestrating three second half goals in a 3-2 comeback. The one he roofed was world class, as was the set piece to Edu that should have counted. The Bradley goal was set up by a 50-yard diagonal ball onto Altidore's head. His performance in that World Cup is the standard by which future field players should be judged.

I think he makes a convenient scapegoat for the shortcomings of Bruce Arena and the 2006 team . . .

 

[FrostyNuggets]

How quickly people have forgotten Algeria.

Forgotten...no.

This mindset is exactly what Klinsman was referring to when he spoke about the American tendency to pay for past performance at the expense of assembling the best team for the task at hand.

There's been talk on this board about the poor '98 performance and it's causes. Something not mentioned but perhaps a bigger issue than Harkes/Wynalda, was an aging veteran with diminished skills being a clubhouse cancer (Lalas). Listening/reading what Donavan had to say about the team over the last 15 days or so, I find it likely he would have been a cancer.

 

[ZooCougar]

How quickly people have forgotten Algeria.

Landycakes came back with the sabbatical so that he could have more slumber parties with his sister.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

Or Slovenia. He was a strange whistle away from orchestrating three second half goals in a 3-2 comeback. The one he roofed was world class, as was the set piece to Edu that should have counted. The Bradley goal was set up by a 50-yard diagonal ball onto Altidore's head. His performance in that World Cup is the standard by which future field players should be judged.

Forget? Never. But Donovan basically admitted to being nine toes in. Not exactly inspiring.

 

[whaler11]

Landycakes came back with the sabbatical so that he could have more slumber parties with his sister.

Alex, I'll take things that have nothing to do with putting your best team on the field for $800.

 

[whaler11]

Forgotten...no.

This mindset is exactly what Klinsman was referring to when he spoke about the American tendency to pay for past performance at the expense of assembling the best team for the task at hand.

There's been talk on this board about the poor '98 performance and it's causes. Something not mentioned but perhaps a bigger issue than Harkes/Wynalda, was an aging veteran with diminished skills being a clubhouse cancer (Lalas). Listening/reading what Donavan had to say about the team over the last 15 days or so, I find it likely he would have been a cancer.

Sort of like the American tendency to make up narratives in sports to fit their argument.

Because the NBA overpays for past performance therefore you take Brad Davis to the World Cup instead of Landon Donovan.

It of course had been so long since Donovan had been productive. Only 8 goals in 13 appearances for the national team in long ago 2013.

Altidore couldn't score in a wh*rehouse for a year and couldn't play worse for his club so I guess the standards for past production differ depending on the player.

 

[meyers7]

I know of kids who play local club stuff or ODP and go to regular high schools - they do not play in high school.

Most of our kids do both around here.

 

[junglehusky]

My buddies an Arsenal fan and I must say, of the big 4-5 tams in the EPL, I'd be ok with either Arsenal or Liverpool. However, went to Wales two years ago and saw a Swansea game and was hooked as a fan.

Now that's the way to do it, spending some time in a city to develop that affinity for the local culture, people and team. Now I thought maybe that would happen for me when I went to Edinburgh, staying near Leith but the week that I was there Hibernian FC got relegated, rather embarrassingly.

 

[meyers7]

That is correct. It was big news in Jersey when it went into effect last year in terms of taking kids away from very successful programs and the cost. I think the same is happening to the girls this year.

Cost is one of my concerns, too. Will only kids with families who have the money be allowed to develop?

That's the big question to me. Not sure how the academies/clubs do it. Probably up to them. I imagine a few of them are free or have scholarships, but I doubt all of them do.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Sort of like the American tendency to make up narratives in sports to fit their argument.

Because the NBA overpays for past performance therefore you take Brad Davis to the World Cup instead of Landon Donovan.

It of course had been so long since Donovan had been productive. Only 8 goals in 13 appearances for the national team in long ago 2013.

Altidore couldn't score in a wh*rehouse for a year and couldn't play worse for his club so I guess the standards for past production differ depending on the player.

The better argument would be to suggest Wando, not Davis. Donovan was not in the mix at mid.

And who is making up narratives???? Altidore's 8 goals in 2013 qualifiers don't count, but Donovan's in gold cup games against the likes of Belize, Cuba do?

 

[whaler11]

The better argument would be to suggest Wando, not Davis. Donovan was not in the mix at mid.

And who is making up narratives???? Altidore's 8 goals in 2013 qualifiers don't count, but Donovan's in gold cup games against the likes of Belize, Cuba do?

If you'd prefer Wondo or Johannson that's fine too. Davis' position doesn't much matter because he never should have been in a game. Clearly they weren't slaves to 'positions' based on what they trotted out for Belgium.

Here are the arguments we hear, none of them explain why you'd leave a superior player home to what they took:

1. Couldn't train hard enough: based on the injuries piling up, they might not have cracked the training code. Not that JK will reflect on that or change.
2. Can't reward guys for the past: not true as he was quite successful in the recent past and they built the attack around a player who literally did nothing for a year. Tapping a ball into an empty net in a friendly was cause for a national celebration.
3. JK doesn't trust him: well then why put him on the 30. Why bring him back at all? Just puts you in a position to force made up excuses down the road.
4: He would have been a distraction or a cancer: Well leaving him off was a bigger distraction and there is zero evidence that he wouldn't have accepted a very specialized role.

People don't like him so there is a someone sizable population that will support JK to the death on the topic. The problem of course is there is no reason beyond JK putting his personal feelings ahead of the results. Hopefully he likes the 23 best players in 2018. We know if it's not German it's crap so hopefully the Jones to MLS rumors are unfounded.

 

[meyers7]

Sort of like the American tendency to make up narratives in sports to fit their argument.

Agreed, the Donovan apologists do tend to make stuff up.

Because the NBA overpays for past performance therefore you take Brad Davis to the World Cup instead of Landon Donovan.

See, making up narratives. Again, Donovan was not in competition with Davis. He was in competition with Dempsey, Altidore, Johannson, and Wondo. (Personally I would have preferred him to Wondo, but would have preferred an Altidore back up to either of them)

It of course had been so long since Donovan had been productive. Only 8 goals in 13 appearances for the national team in long ago 2013.

And maybe he could have scored more, in actual WCQ if he'd been around and not out "finding himself".

Altidore couldn't score in a wh*rehouse for a year and couldn't play worse for his club so I guess the standards for past production differ depending on the player.

Actually he played well enough to appear in 38 games for them. (granted he didn't score for ). BUT, he did have 8 goals for the USA in 2013 too. And half of them were in actual WCQ. Because he was there, not on a sabbatical.

Also I don't recall reading anywhere Davis, Wondo, Johannson, Dempsey, well anyone else but Donovan stating they couldn't go 100%. Donovan apologists need to face reality, Donovan made his bed. Klinsmann didn't have to make him sleep in it, but it's understandable that he did. You can blame Klinsmann for not giving into a Prima Donna, but personally I kind of respect him for not.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Nuclear attack...


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/donovan-comes-off-bitter-klinsmann-062000341--sow.html


Donovan should have kept his mouth shut and likely ruined any chance of him seeing the national team again (if there was ever a chance that he could physically make the team); but, some of what he said is true. Bradley did not look good for most of the Cup and one factor was that he played out of his natural position. Not sure if Klinsmann did such on purpose or it was reactionary due to Jozy’s injury. Either way, while I believe he is a very good coach, some of the blame does fall on his shoulders by either 1) tactically putting Bradley in an unantrual position or 2) not filling the roster with a player (E Johnson or Boyd?) that could fill in for Jozy in the case of injury, which he is known to get, or card suspension.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Donavan has proven himself to be a cancer in his comments since being left off the team. Having that voice in the locker room would have been a killer. Now he is begging for the veteran role on the Olympic team.....no thanks.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Another view on the potential 2018 Cup team…
http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/...ster-starting-lineup-tim-howard-jozy-altidore

 

[whaler11]

Nuclear attack...


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/donovan-comes-off-bitter-klinsmann-062000341--sow.html


Donovan should have kept his mouth shut and likely ruined any chance of him seeing the national team again (if there was ever a chance that he could physically make the team); but, some of what he said is true. Bradley did not look good for most of the Cup and one factor was that he played out of his natural position. Not sure if Klinsmann did such on purpose or it was reactionary due to Jozy’s injury. Either way, while I believe he is a very good coach, some of the blame does fall on his shoulders by either 1) tactically putting Bradley in an unantrual position or 2) not filling the roster with a player (E Johnson or Boyd?) that could fill in for Jozy in the case of injury, which he is known to get, or card suspension.

He should have kept his mouth shut but he's right. If Howard didn't play out of his a**, the conversation to date would be completely different.

 

[Adios]

Can we get Andre Blake to get dual citizenship??

 

[whaler11]

Agreed, the Donovan apologists do tend to make stuff up.


See, making up narratives. Again, Donovan was not in competition with Davis. He was in competition with Dempsey, Altidore, Johannson, and Wondo. (Personally I would have preferred him to Wondo, but would have preferred an Altidore back up to either of them)


And maybe he could have scored more, in actual WCQ if he'd been around and not out "finding himself".

Actually he played well enough to appear in 38 games for them. (granted he didn't score for ). BUT, he did have 8 goals for the USA in 2013 too. And half of them were in actual WCQ. Because he was there, not on a sabbatical.

Also I don't recall reading anywhere Davis, Wondo, Johannson, Dempsey, well anyone else but Donovan stating they couldn't go 100%. Donovan apologists need to face reality, Donovan made his bed. Klinsmann didn't have to make him sleep in it, but it's understandable that he did. You can blame Klinsmann for not giving into a Prima Donna, but personally I kind of respect him for not.

Desiring to take your best team to the World Cup /=/ Donovan apologist.

 

[UConnDan97]

Forget? Never. But Donovan basically admitted to being nine toes in. Not exactly inspiring.

I'm growing so tired of this narrative, as it literally has very little to do with anything about why Donovan was left off the team. He took his sabbatical. He came back. He played in the Gold Cup and in qualifiers. He was on the 30 man provisional WC squad prior to the cut.
How quickly we forget that there was another player who took a similar "sabbatical" and found himself on the 23 man roster:

On 16 May 2012, Timothy Chandler declined an offer from U.S. coach Jürgen Klinsmann to join his training camp for the upcoming friendlies and 2014 World Cup Qualifiers.[19] Klinsmann stated that Timothy expressed a need to take a break from the U.S. and find his international identity.[20] However, Chandler later accepted a call-up for the US friendly against Russia, stating that he was "in 1,000 percent."[21]

So I guess the moral of the story is: If you are "nine toes in", it helps to be German?