OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[ZooCougar]

Carl,

What wondo did was perfect, they only other things that would have made it better would be to score or foul, he did exactly what he was put in to do.

 

[Dooley]

What are the tiebreakers? If Ghana wins and we lose don't we advance by head to head? And if Portugal wins and we lose don't they have to make up 5 goals?

Tiebreakers for group stage are as follows:

1. goal differential (GER +4, US +1, Ghana -1, Portugal -4)
2. goals scored (GER 6, US 4, Ghana 3, Portugal 2)
3. H2H

Just about the only way the U.S. doesn't advance is if Germany blows them out AND Ghana blows out Portugal. Note: a blowout would be a win/loss by 2+ goals.

Of course, the easiest scenario is to get a result against Germany. A win OR tie advances out of group stage. A loss AND a GHA/POR tie and the U.S. also advances as #2. About the only scenario that we all have to start worrying about is losing to Germany and Ghana blowing out Portugal.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I will admit I am a casual fan but why isn't H2H the first tiebreaker? Seems like a no brainier to me.

Because it's soccer. And I believe if the goal differential is identical they draw lots. That can't be true. Teams advance based on rock/paper/scissors?

 

[Dooley]

I will admit I am a casual fan but why isn't H2H the first tiebreaker? Seems like a no brainier to me.

I hear you, but it's more complicated than that. Say the U.S. loses and Portugal beats Ghana. Both would have 4 points and just tied. Or even more complicated than that, we've seen group stages where 3 teams have finished with the same amount of points.

As an example, the idea is similar to what we saw last year in college hoops: Louisville owned us, Kentucky owned Louisville, Florida owned Kentucky, we owned Florida. In this hypothetical scenario, who would advance if Louisville, Kentucky, Florida and UCONN all had the same amount of points?

 

[ZooCougar]

Because it's soccer. And I believe if the goal differential is identical they draw lots. That can't be true. Teams advance based on rock/paper/scissors?

In baseball you get to smoke and chew Red Man (OMG Racist!) in the dugout.

 

[meyers7]

including that Lalas guy on the announcing - that guy irritates me for some reason.

He irritates a lot of people. I like him though, probably because he irritates people.

All I'm doing is giving my perspective - I'm not a soccer player or coach, and I very well could be entirely wrong about these concepts in tactics and strategy, but as soon as the U.S. showed anything other than trying to get to the goal - when in possession and in the other half - that's when we lost.

You are, but understandable. Try this. If we have the ball, they can't score. So the idea at the end of the game it to keep the ball as much/long as possible. And keeping it as far away from our goal as possible. Kicking it to the goalie, kicking it out of play (goal kicks, throw-ins), dribbling into traffic are all ways to give the ball back to the other team so they can try to score.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Carl,

What wondo did was perfect, they only other things that would have made it better would be to score or foul, he did exactly what he was put in to do.

I'm not going to continue to argue this. I concede you are most likely right. I just completely disagree with the concept. I believe that the player had two choices of action that would have been "perfect" one - is to do what he did, the other would be to attack the goal.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Because it's soccer. And I believe if the goal differential is identical they draw lots. That can't be true. Teams advance based on rock/paper/scissors?

Anything possible Jimmy. LOL

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

In baseball you get to smoke and chew Red Man (OMG Racist!) in the dugout.

Seriously Zoo, even the most staunch supporter of soccer cannot support drawing lots as an acceptable means of moving on in the sport's biggest global event. Didn't a recent WC end in penalty kicks as well. Come on now.

 

[Carl Spackler]

He irritates a lot of people. I like him though, probably because he irritates people.


You are, but understandable. Try this. If we have the ball, they can't score. So the idea at the end of the game it to keep the ball as much/long as possible. And keeping it as far away from our goal as possible. Kicking it to the goalie, kicking it out of play (goal kicks, throw-ins), dribbling into traffic are all ways to give the ball back to the other team so they can try to score.

I understand that - possession of the ball - they can't score - theoretically - but that's not 100% accurate - especially in soccer. We all just saw how fast you can give up a goal in soccer by giving the ball away - far from your own goal in the other half of the field. Even more inaccurate in football - theoretically, because on any given play - the defense can score. Minutiea - whatever. Not important.

Here's a thought for you. I'm much more interested in psychology, mental, emotional, focus issues in high level performance - whatever it may be. Sports, or otherwise. Physical aspects are secondary and come with training and recruiting. That's what I am, how I operate.

So let me breakdown what is in my head as those last 3-5 minutes are winding down. ALL of this, happens instantaneously. I can just write it out now with the benefit of hindsight and time. Amazon jungle. Incredible heat and humidity - fatigue and stress on the body and MIND. Portugal team knows - absolutely KNOWS they need at minimum a tie, or their World Cup is over. Everything is on the line. USA really, has out played them for the entire game, and is the more physical and well conditioned team, it was obvious again last night - not so against Ghana, but it was last night, and again - that sub - that kid #2 - I can't remember his name again, but that kid comes in late - and he's lightning on the field and with less than 10 minutes to go in the game, he's flying all over, out runs everybody to a ball at the back line of the field, makes a great crossing pass - and the USA is up 2-1 with the game on the line. Pressure on Portugal - the world cup is on the line. It's score a goal - or it's over - really. The game changes because of it. An extra defender is subbed in for the USA and a fresh offensive player is subbed in, basically playing alone in the attack.

For the USA now - it's win - and you advance. In my mind - a one goal lead - is not safe. It wasn't before the scored the game tying goal, and the fact that they scored it, just validates my opinion. A two goal lead? different situation. So - for USA - it's been a hard fought game, coming back from the early disaster of a mistake, and taking the lead. How did they do it? By attacking every chance they got.

Now - we all saw Portugal crumble mentally against Germany. They were completely up against the wall now, 2-1 against us. Why - on earth, would you give such a team, the opportunity to change their momentum, their attitude and do it willingly?

To me - that's what happened, the moment we won possession of the ball late, and that player, the new offensive sub, went down the line, made the great moves to get open, and then instead of attacking the goal, went to the corner, putzed around a bit and then made the long pass out to the midfield.

To me - that's when our foot came off their throats, and we allowed them to breathe new life. Mentally, emotionally, they knew the USA was holding on for the lead. THe announcer - Lalas, is praising it as a "professional" move, to do that, and at home, I'm cringing on the edge of my couch, and the same feeling I used to get watching the clock run down at Rentschler when Edsall was coach, and the only thing you could was hope that the clock would hit zero before the other team would score to win the game.

I hate that feeling. I think they made a mistake by playing the ball into the corners of the offensive end at the end of the game, rather than maintaining the type of attack the USA had been playing all day long.

I suspect that if the USA takes the foot off the pedal for any moment, against Germany, we will lose the game.

 

[meyers7]

Seriously Zoo, even the most staunch supporter of soccer cannot support drawing lots as an acceptable means of moving on in the sport's biggest global event. Didn't a recent WC end in penalty kicks as well. Come on now.

Doesn't the NFL have something similar in their playoff scenarios? At some point doesn't it come down to a coin toss?? Think I remember reading about that somewhere.

People definitely don't like the Kicks From the Mark at the end of the game. But can't really make them play forever. I always thought maybe taking off a player every few minutes would open up the game. ????

 

[SubbaBub]

If people think of Bradley's last touch as a muffed KO return recovered and returned for a touchdown by a team down by 6 in a playoff game, then you have a good understanding of the appropriate level of WTF.

You are going to be hearing all day how a point was all they needed. To them I say, think of the bloody sock game as a Yankee fan knowing Kevin Brown is going to the hill for you in game 7.

Germany could easily win 2-0 or 3-1 if they have a mind to play it out. That would have been nice to avoid.

 

[meyers7]

I understand that - possession of the ball - they can't score - theoretically - but that's not 100% accurate - especially in soccer. We all just saw how fast you can give up a goal in soccer by giving the ball away. Even more inaccurate in football - theoretically, because on any given play - the defense can score. Minutiea - whatever. Not important.

Well sure you can score on yourself, you can do that in Gridiron too (safety). But not "especially in soccer".

Here's a thought for you. I'm much more interested in psychology, mental, emotional, focus issues in high level performance - whatever it may be. Sports, or otherwise. Physical aspects are secondary and come with training and recruiting. That's what I am, how I operate.

So let me breakdown what is in my head as those last 3-5 minutes are winding down. ALL of this, happens instantaneously. I can just write it out now with the benefit of hindsight and time. Amazon jungle. Incredible heat and humidity - fatigue and stress on the body and MIND. Portugal team knows - absolutely KNOWS they need at minimum a tie, or their World Cup is over. Everything is on the line. USA really, has out played them for the entire game, and is the more physical and well conditioned team, it was obvious again last night - not so against Ghana, but it was last night, and again - that sub - that kid #2 - I can't remember his name again, but that kid comes in late - and he's lightning on the field and with less than 10 minutes to go in the game, he's flying all over, out runs everybody to a ball at the back line of the field, makes a great crossing pass - and the USA is up 2-1 with the game on the line. Pressure on Portugal - the world cup is on the line. It's score a goal - or it's over - really. The game changes because of it. An extra defender is subbed in for the USA and a fresh offensive player is subbed in, basically playing alone in the attack.

For the USA now - it's win - and you advance. In my mind - a one goal lead - is not safe. It wasn't before the scored the game tying goal, and the fact that they scored it, just validates my opinion. A two goal lead? different situation. So - for USA - it's been a hard fought game, coming back from the early disaster of a mistake, and taking the lead. How did they do it? By attacking every chance they got.

Now - we all saw Portugal crumble mentally against Germany. They were completely up against the wall now, 2-1 against us. Why - on earth, would you give such a team, the opportunity to change their momentum, their attitude and do it willingly?

To me - that's what happened, the moment we won possession of the ball late, and that player, the new offensive sub, went down the line, made the great moves to get open, and then instead of attacking the goal, went to the corner, putzed around a bit and then made the long pass out to the midfield.

To me - that's when our foot came off their throats, and we allowed them to breathe new life. Mentally, emotionally, they knew the USA was holding on for the lead. THe announcer - Lalas, is praising it as a "professional" move, to do that, and at home, I'm cringing on the edge of my couch, and the same feeling I used to get watching the clock run down at Rentschler when Edsall was coach, and the only thing you could was hope that the clock would hit zero before the other team would score to win the game.

I hate that feeling. I think they made a mistake by playing the ball into the corners of the offensive end at the end of the game, rather than maintaining the type of attack the USA had been playing all day long.

I suspect that if the USA takes the foot off the pedal for any moment, against Germany, we will lose the game.

Yea no, that's just a bad idea. Poor strategy. Should/would get you fired as a coach, sat as a player. When the clock is running down the QB takes a knee, he doesn't throw a bomb. (or any pass for that matter), they run out the clock. The defense doesn't blitz, it plays prevent.

When the shot clock is off, the players don't jack up shots, they run the clock out (in reality they get fouled, but you know).

Sometimes the other team makes a great play. It happens. We did it in 2010 against Algeria. Scored in the 91st minute to win the game. Soccer can be very cruel and very ecstatic.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

I know I shouldn't care, but it annoys me how much Carl attempts to act like a soccer expert given his total lack of soccer knowledge. I understand the desire to analyze and whatnot, but it's important to realize your lack of expertise sometimes.

 

[meyers7]

If people think of Bradley's last touch as a muffed KO return recovered and returned for a touchdown by a team down by 6 in a playoff game, then you have a good understanding of the appropriate level of WTF.

True, but, but, he did lose it in their half 60+ yards away from goal. The defense should have been able to cover for the mistake. There was only 1 guy in the box for Portugal and like 4-5 defenders. Granted it was a great, world class cross from the player of the year. But, come on, clear that out, anywhere.

True Bradley has had a poor WC so far. I'm hoping something clicks on for him soon.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Well sure you can score on yourself, you can do that in Gridiron too (safety). But not "especially in soccer".


Yea no, that's just a bad idea. Poor strategy. Should/would get you fired as a coach, sat as a player. When the clock is running down the QB takes a knee, he doesn't throw a bomb. (or any pass for that matter), they run out the clock. The defense doesn't blitz, it plays prevent.

When the shot clock is off, the players don't jack up shots, they run the clock out (in reality they get fouled, but you know).

Sometimes the other team makes a great play. It happens. We did it in 2010 against Algeria. Scored in the 91st minute to win the game. Soccer can be very cruel and very ecstatic.

Yeah, I get that. Did you understand anything I wrote though? I will concede, and already did before, that playing to the corner was a correct play. Tactically. I disagree that it was the only "correct" play. Strategically, I disagree with that approach late in the game. Completely. To me, that kind play goes against everything the USA was doing all game long, and I won't change my mind on this - that - is a bad thing to do late in a game. Especially when the other team is the frame of mind it was. Had we been playing that kind of game all day long, I have a different opinion, but we were taking shots on goal all day, from everywhere, close - far from goal, everywhere. I think, that had we maintained the mindset of attacking the goal, all the way to the end - we win that game and have advanced already. They had already made the tactical substitutions, and set up the defensive posture. I think it was mistake. Game over. Tie. Germany next. I believe that if we do the same thing and change that kind of approach against Germany - we lose. I hope we don't.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I know I shouldn't care, but it annoys me how much Carl attempts to act like a soccer expert given his total lack of soccer knowledge. I understand the desire to analyze and whatnot, but it's important to realize your lack of expertise sometimes.

I'm not too concerned about what I'm an expert in, and what I'm not, when it comes to writing on UCONN football message board about World Cup soccer.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Doesn't the NFL have something similar in their playoff scenarios? At some point doesn't it come down to a coin toss?? Think I remember reading about that somewhere.

People definitely don't like the Kicks From the Mark at the end of the game. But can't really make them play forever. I always thought maybe taking off a player every few minutes would open up the game. ????

Yes the NFL has a coin toss as like the 15th option. It's virtually impossible. Much more likely to happen in soccer. I also don't know why H2H isn't given more weight than goal differential. If Germany wins and the US and Ghana are tied for second, no way should Ghana advance.

I like your idea about taking a player off every 10 or 15 minutes of OT. Playoff hockey they play until there's a goal. Put the subs in.

 

[ZooCougar]

Seriously Zoo, even the most staunch supporter of soccer cannot support drawing lots as an acceptable means of moving on in the sport's biggest global event. Didn't a recent WC end in penalty kicks as well. Come on now.

Penalty kicks are part of the game. And drawing lots is pretty unlikely too.

 

[ZooCougar]

Seriously Zoo, even the most staunch supporter of soccer cannot support drawing lots as an acceptable means of moving on in the world's biggest global event. Didn't a recent WC end in penalty kicks as well. Come on now.

FYP.

 

[ZooCougar]

I know I shouldn't care, but it annoys me how much Carl attempts to act like a soccer expert given his total lack of soccer knowledge. I understand the desire to analyze and whatnot, but it's important to realize your lack of expertise sometimes.

I agree. But he is also an expert on NAVY SEAL ops too.

 

[ZooCougar]

If people think of Bradley's last touch as a muffed KO return recovered and returned for a touchdown by a team down by 6 in a playoff game, then you have a good understanding of the appropriate level of WTF.

You are going to be hearing all day how a point was all they needed. To them I say, think of the bloody sock game as a Yankee fan knowing Kevin Brown is going to the hill for you in game 7.

Germany could easily win 2-0 or 3-1 if they have a mind to play it out. That would have been nice to avoid.

Seriously, Michael Bradley's play may have locked up 3rd place for us. That play and his piss poor performance in the first two games are borderline unforgiveable.

He also should have put that one ball in the back of the net. He is playing totally soft out there right now.

 

[whaler11]

Penalty kicks are part of the game. And drawing lots is pretty unlikely too.

Two things that suck about soccer.

A: diving and faking injuries. Really the tattoo guy looks like a clown - oh hey tough guy with 2 million tattoos - you got tapped in the face please stop. It was great when Dempsey made slight contact with a guy in the thigh and he rolled around like he had been shot in the testes - and Dempsey just looked at him with contempt.

B: Penalty kicks to decide games. It's an awful way to choose a winner.

 

[spsct]

Tiebreakers for group stage are as follows:

1. goal differential (GER +4, US +1, Ghana -1, Portugal -4)
2. goals scored (GER 6, US 4, Ghana 3, Portugal 2)
3. H2H

Just about the only way the U.S. doesn't advance is if Germany blows them out AND Ghana blows out Portugal. Note: a blowout would be a win/loss by 2+ goals.

Of course, the easiest scenario is to get a result against Germany. A win OR tie advances out of group stage. A loss AND a GHA/POR tie and the U.S. also advances as #2. About the only scenario that we all have to start worrying about is losing to Germany and Ghana blowing out Portugal.

So G&G wins by a total of 3 goals would do us in... Hell, even a total win margin of 2 could do us in if Ghana scores more goals than us overall.

This is why I'm nervous... We know Portugal will be pressing because they need to make up a lot of ground. Ghana could really light them up...

&%!* you Bradley!

 

[ZooCougar]

Two things that suck about soccer.

A: diving and faking injuries. Really the tattoo guy looks like a clown - oh hey tough guy with 2 million tattoos - you got tapped in the face please stop. It was great when Dempsey made slight contact with a guy in the thigh and he rolled around like he had been shot in the testes - and Dempsey just looked at him with contempt.

B: Penalty kicks to decide games. It's an awful way to choose a winner.

I am just glad that the USMNT keeps those antics to a minimum. Portugal should have earned about three red cards for acting last night.

I don't have a problem with PKs. PKs are part of the game, everyone knows that after a certain point the game will be decided in PKs. It's much better than some awful 20 inning baseball game.