OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread | Page 37 | The Boneyard

OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

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Dooley said:
Whaling the ball out of bounds doesn't do much good. Ballboys get replacements onto the field lickity split. The right play is to go the corner, shield the ball from defenders, then try to knock it out of bounds off of a defender. Once the ball is out, you take forever to throw the ball back in. Better yet, you take forever to throw it, then hand it off to somebody else to throw it in (and they also take forever to throw it back in). Once the ball is in, it's all about possession. Possession by a corner flag is most ideal.
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It's better than what actually happened.
 
ZooCougar said:
It's better than what actually happened.
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The frustrating thing is that they did the right thing and went to the corner. Once they were there, they played it out for some reason. Portugal bailout.

Oh well, we're still in good tiebreaker position.
 
Dooley said:
Whaling the ball out of bounds doesn't do much good. Ballboys get replacements onto the field lickity split. The right play is to go the corner, shield the ball from defenders, then try to knock it out of bounds off of a defender. Once the ball is out, you take forever to throw the ball back in. Better yet, you take forever to throw it, then hand it off to somebody else to throw it in (and they also take forever to throw it back in). Once the ball is in, it's all about possession. Possession by a corner flag is most ideal.
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But it allows the defenders to reset. That's not what happened here. Bradley butchered his first touch then immediately lost the ball. Beckerman was slow to react and got left in the dust once he was out of position. Zusi, is supposed to help Beasley but he was on the bench leaving that space open. Where was Gonzo? Didn't see him in frame, wasn't he supposed to be back defending these crosses?

Beasley, actually did the best he could. If he presses any further, CR goes around him with no one between him and Howard. The cross was perfect, but a relatively low percentage play if the box is covered.

Johnson allows him man past him. He either doesn't tell Cameron he's coming or Cameron missed it. As the ball is whipped in, Besler is caught in no man's land and Cameron let's the runner get in between him and the ball. If he stands up straight he should be able to clear it with his head. Howard, while mostly hung out and helpless, could have tracked it across and made a play but that's nit picking as there is really no guarantee he'd get there in time.
 
What are the tiebreakers? If Ghana wins and we lose don't we advance by head to head? And if Portugal wins and we lose don't they have to make up 5 goals?
 
Jimdish255 said:
What are the tiebreakers? If Ghana wins and we lose don't we advance by head to head? And if Germany wins and we lose don't they have to make up 5 goals?
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Portugal need to win big and have us lose.

Ghana has 3 goals to date we have four. They need to beat Portugal, have us lose to Germany. If the margin are equal we end up tied in differential and whoever had more total goals moves on. So, matching scores favor us. But the Ghana game will be high scoring, ours won't unless we get blown out.

We'll need at least a point or a Portugal draw/win. Anything else probably doesn't break our way.
 
Jimdish255 said:
What are the tiebreakers? If Ghana wins and we lose don't we advance by head to head? And if Portugal wins and we lose don't they have to make up 5 goals?
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I'm reading that it's goal differential first, goals scored second and then head to head record. What a great game though. Incredible how fast things can change. That kid #2 for USA is world class track speed. That kid can motor.

There was talk about playing for a draw around here recently I was involved in. The concept is simply alien to me - I think you play to win, always - and I can't imagine the USA coming out and doing it any different, in fact, I think we ended in a tie in this game, because at the end of the game, instead of sticking with the plan to attack, in the final few minutes they stopped attacking and tried to sit on the lead. I won't wiaver from that perspective - ti's what I believe - you play to win - always.

I do very specifically recall writing a long time ago in this discussion, that the best way to advance - is to score as many goals as possible, and I think we should try to score as many as possible against Germany -- as well.

But here we are - the reality is that USA vs. Germany on Thursday, and it's a rock solid argument, that the ideal situation is not to go all out for the win, but for both teams to walk around, and pass the ball back and forth for 90 minutes in a 0-0 tie - so that both move on without anyone getting hurt.

Would the teams agree to do that?

Strange sport.
 
There won't be collusion. There will be very conservative play until about the 65 minute mark and if tied you may see the record for backwards passes to the goalkeeper broken.
 
Bradley is killing me. He's suuposed to he the Rock on this team and it's now three costly mistakes in 2 games. Against Ghana he doesn't dribble into the corner and gives it away in crunch time. Tonight, he misses an easy goal by trying to taping in. He then gets saved from an amazing Jones strike and a Dempsey chest shot only to give the ball away in the middle of the field with a few seconds left. Once he turned it over and I saw Ronaldo with it, I hs d the same reaction as Whaler, "this isn't going to end well".

Not saying Bradley needs to be benched but JK needs to get in his ear.

I was impressed by some other guys. Yedlin was quick as heckler and created that score by Dempsey and I like Zusi playing from the get go.

Gotta pray Germany is in no rush to win big on Thursday.
 
It's absolutely true that we had the result in the palm of the hand and let it slip away with a split second of mental carelessness. But it's worth pointing out - if it had been the US that was down 2-1 and came back to tie at the last minute, how would we feel?
 
I don't recall personally watching a game where both teams merely needed a draw to move onto the knockout round. Do the teams actually try to play to score or just dribble it around for 90 minutes by gentleman's agreement?
 
From what I can tell reading these scenarios I just perused - Germany is in the same situation as us, except they have 6 goals to our 4. They sure as hell arent' going to want to lose and be stuck in a tie-breaker the Ghana or Portugal. We sure as hell don't want that.

The ideal theoretical situation is both teams agree to basically throw the game in the toilet and walk off the field with a 0-0 tie, well rested and nobody hurt. Hard for me to grasp that exists - but it does. You see NFL playoff bound teams wanting to tank games and stay healthy - but the other team usually isn't also in the same boat.

What I do hope is that both teams come out ready to play, and play a great game. I still do not believe we are overmatched with anybody on our schedule - including Germany. We may have not been the better team for the whole game, and deserved to beat Ghana, but we did. We certainly outplayed and were the better team vs. Portugal, but a bad mistake early, and a bad mistake very late, gives you the 2-2 tie.

As for the discussion about kicking out of bounds, running clock, etc. - I say make the goalie have to make save, if you can, with your last kick. At least try. I might be totally wrong, but I believe that if the USA had kept going for goal in those last 5 minutes, instead of trying to run clock, we hold on to the lead, adn maybe even tack on another goal.

Well - from waht I've seen of Germany, Ghana, Portugal and the USA in the group of death, I think that if Germany and the USA come out both with the intention to score as many goals as possible and win - that it should be a very good game, and at the end - both will still advance - just as they would with a 0-0 tie of a trash game.

Sure makes the month of June go by fast.
 
What people are forgetting about is the fact that Germany will NOT go into this game looking for a tie. Mainly for 2 reasons:

1) They're Germany. There is something within them when it comes to soccer that makes them want to go directly to the goal (do not pass "GO", do not collect $200). They are historically the anti-Italy, who wants to score 1 goal and then play defense for 89 minutes.

2) They want to finish first in the group, because first in the group means the difference between playing Belgium in the first round and playing Algeria. I'm being serious.

Let's hope that we beat 'em and get Algeria in the second round...
 
If Germany and USA both come out guns blazing, Germany wins 8 or 9 times out of 10, most of them by 2 or more goals which would be just what Ghana wants. I do not want to see Fabian Johnson and DaMarcus Beasley overlapping into the attacking third as many times as they did today against Portugal. Go for the win, sure, do so with full awareness that Germany is more capable of punishing mistakes than Portugal.
 
United States loses to Portugal 2-2 is how it feels to me.

However, we're still in decent shape going forward. The big fear at this point is that Ghana beats Portugal worse than Germany beats us. That's the more likely scenario in which the US would be screwed. I don't see it as very likely that Portugal does enough against Ghana to advance, goal differential wise.
 
Jimdish255 said:
It's going to be a wild afternoon. I'm not working.
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fortunately I don't have to teach until 4:30. I may be a tad late. They'll just have to understand.
 
Carl Spackler said:
in fact, I think we ended in a tie in this game, because at the end of the game, instead of sticking with the plan to attack, in the final few minutes they stopped attacking and tried to sit on the lead. I won't wiaver from that perspective - ti's what I believe - you play to win - always.
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Let me draw an analogy you can understand. Say you're up 7 with 60 seconds left in a football game, it's 3rd and 12. You could throw the ball and get a first down and end the game, but the odds of converting on 3rd and 12 are very poor, even for the best teams. So you run the ball, kill the clock, and punt the ball away.

Throwing the ball might get you a win, but the odds aren't in your favor. We did the right thing, we just didn't execute. Bradley has to send that ball as far downfield as he can. Or kick it out of bounds. It doesn't matter, just give the defense the time to get back and set up. What Bradley did was the equivalent of the Giants fumbling the handoff agains the Eagles in 1978. Just don't turn the ball over like that and we win. Instead, he fumbled it away.
 
I don't think Portugal will mail it in. When we scored our second goal they were essentially eliminated and they knew it. They still pressed and tried to score. I would expect the same against Ghana. Also remember that Ghana is missing muntari, which is a big blow.
 
Dooley said:
Tiebreakers: 1. goal differential 2. goals scored 3. H2H
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I will admit I am a casual fan but why isn't H2H the first tiebreaker? Seems like a no brainier to me.
 
WingU-Conn said:
Let me draw an analogy you can understand. Say you're up 7 with 60 seconds left in a football game, it's 3rd and 12. You could throw the ball and get a first down and end the game, but the odds of converting on 3rd and 12 are very poor, even for the best teams. So you run the ball, kill the clock, and punt the ball away.
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Where've you been the last three years?
 
WingU-Conn said:
Let me draw an analogy you can understand. Say you're up 7 with 60 seconds left in a football game, it's 3rd and 12. You could throw the ball and get a first down and end the game, but the odds of converting on 3rd and 12 are very poor, even for the best teams. So you run the ball, kill the clock, and punt the ball away.

Throwing the ball might get you a win, but the odds aren't in your favor. We did the right thing, we just didn't execute. Bradley has to send that ball as far downfield as he can. Or kick it out of bounds. It doesn't matter, just give the defense the time to get back and set up. What Bradley did was the equivalent of the Giants fumbling the handoff agains the Eagles in 1978. Just don't turn the ball over like that and we win. Instead, he fumbled it away.
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There are times I want to rip one of Carl's arms off and beat him with it, this is one of this times. They were closing the game out in a textbook fashion.

Bradley is just soooo weak right now. He is a true liability.
 
WingU-Conn said:
Let me draw an analogy you can understand. Say you're up 7 with 60 seconds left in a football game, it's 3rd and 12. You could throw the ball and get a first down and end the game, but the odds of converting on 3rd and 12 are very poor, even for the best teams. So you run the ball, kill the clock, and punt the ball away.

Throwing the ball might get you a win, but the odds aren't in your favor. We did the right thing, we just didn't execute. Bradley has to send that ball as far downfield as he can. Or kick it out of bounds. It doesn't matter, just give the defense the time to get back and set up. What Bradley did was the equivalent of the Giants fumbling the handoff agains the Eagles in 1978. Just don't turn the ball over like that and we win. Instead, he fumbled it away.
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I get the thought process, I do - but it's apples and oranges. The clock doesn't stop in soccer. You have to get to the whistle - the only whistle - the final whistle. THe clock starts and stops for many reasons in football, including pass plays vs. running plays. I agree that if the ball isn't turned over in the mid-field on that last second play, Portugal doesn't get the run down the field and the best player in the world for the past year, doesn't get the opportunity to deliver a perfect pass in the most pressure situation there can be. But it's just like football in other ways - it's the accumulation of all the little things - if the ball isn't turned over so badly so early in the game in front of our own goal, it's a different game, if the ball is one inch in a different direction on the shot that hit our goal post, it's a different game.

What comes to my mind, is not the last play, but a play earlier where the Wondolowski sub, got the ball down the sideline with some nifty moves, I couldn't believe he got by the defender and the ball didn't go out - he continued to the corner, and everyone was praising him for burning the clock - including that Lalas guy on the announcing - that guy irritates me for some reason. For me - that was my first uh-oh, we're in trouble. if that guy simply keeps his foot on the gas, and turns the corner he had gained advantage he's dribbling straight on goal and going to have the force the goal keeper to do something. Put a shot on the goal - what's the worst that could happen? It goes in? You get a goal kick? The goalie stops it and keeps it in play? THat's probably the best scenario other than a goal. What else happens if you do that? IMO - the rest of the Portugal team that's been pressing ahead to get the game tying has to get back, if the goal keeper has the ball in his hands.

THe same thing happened in the other corner, the player dribbled to the corner and stood over the ball - uh oh - in my mind.

All I'm doing is giving my perspective - I'm not a soccer player or coach, and I very well could be entirely wrong about these concepts in tactics and strategy, but as soon as the U.S. showed anything other than trying to get to the goal - when in possession and in the other half - that's when we lost.
 
ZooCougar said:
There are times I want to rip one of Carl's arms off and beat him with it, this is one of this times. They were closing the game out in a textbook fashion.

Bradley is just soooo weak right now. He is a true liability.
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Dude! That's funny. But really - if Bradley trully is a weakness - why the hell would they want the ball near him to close out the game? I don't get it. Text book fashion - maybe so - but the ball ended up on the foot of the consensus best player of the world with about 15 seconds to play, in perfect position to make a play, and he made it - and his teammate finished the job.

If we're up 3-1, it doen'st matter. This is what I don't get about soccer - score the damn goals. Somebody wrote about GErmany just now, playing to score goals - that makes sense to me.
 
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