OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[EdgewoodNHV]

Seriously, Michael Bradley's play may have locked up 3rd place for us. That play and his piss poor performance in the first two games are borderline unforgiveable.

He also should have put that one ball in the back of the net. He is playing totally soft out there right now.

He had some pretty horrible plays, but he also had some great balls, too. The entire midfield goes through Bradley. Jones and Fabian have been better but even still, I don't think we have a replacement for Bradley at this point. It was a brutal ball to give up, but he played 95 minutes in the rainforest. I think we're harping a bit hard on him individually.

 

[ZooCougar]

So G&G wins by a total of 3 goals would do us in... Hell, even a total win margin of 2 could do us in if Ghana scores more goals than us overall.

This is why I'm nervous... We know Portugal will be pressing because they need to make up a lot of ground. Ghana could really light them up...

&%!* you Bradley!

Here is what I expect. Germany and the US will play this smart. If both sides can work there way into defensive stalemate then this thing will become a snooze.

 

[spsct]

So now my dilemma, Thursday night USA vs. Germany and everyone is asking me where I'm watching the game... At the bar which will be full of drunks having fun (possibly at my expense), at a friends house with a bunch of people (and kids!) having fun (possibly at my expense), or at home alone... I really feel bad punching kids, but if they get mouthy... Look out!

I hate living in Germany right now... I knew this was going to happen when they drew the groups...

 

[Carl Spackler]

Not often that whaler and I will agree on something, but my favorite moment of that entire game yesterday was undoubtedly the look of disgust from Dempsey to that Portugese player flopping around on the ground after contact.

 

[ZooCougar]

He had some pretty horrible plays, but he also had some great balls, too. The entire midfield goes through Bradley. Jones and Fabian have been better but even still, I don't think we have a replacement for Bradley at this point. It was a brutal ball to give up, but he played 95 minutes in the rainforest. I think we're harping a bit hard on him individually.

We could put Carl in there and redistribute the ball to the other team. Go back and watch the first two games. He's been atrocious.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

We could put Carl in there and redistribute the ball to the other team. Go back and watch the first two games. He's been atrocious.

Honestly aside from Jones, everybody in the first game was pretty bad. If you really want to blame someone, blame Cameron, who not only gave up the first goal, but also failed to mark his man at the end of the game. Yeah, Bradley gave up possession, but he did so on the Portuguese side and we had men back. The defenders have to defend there. It's Cameron's guy who scores the goal.

 

[spsct]

Honestly aside from Jones, everybody in the first game was pretty bad. If you really want to blame someone, blame Cameron, who not only gave up the first goal, but also failed to mark his man at the end of the game. Yeah, Bradley gave up possession, but he did so on the Portuguese side and we had men back. The defenders have to defend there. It's Cameron's guy who scores the goal.

&%!* you too, Cameron!

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Someone someday explain why teams get so cute? Great you ran off 10-15 seconds by going to the corner. Just blast the thing in the bleachers and make them go through 11. How they could possibly have that much space in added time is ridiculous.

The trick is to get it into the corner and hold it as long as possible and then force the other team to foul the holding player or to kick it out of bounds for a comer (preferable) or thrown in. A spot like that, I would want Altidor with the ball. He’s a monster to push off. I wonder what Klinsman’s thought with Germany? Play Jozy if he is healthy enough to go and risk an injury in a game that the US only need a draw or try and live without him until the quarterfinals.

Blasting it into the stands to kill time works in rec or even high school where there are less than 2 balls boys. At the Cup, there are a dozen. The ball is back in paly quickly.

Of course, on defense, when dealing with an opposing team’s odd man rush, blasting the ball into the second deck is a good thing.

By the way, Bradley clearly carries some blame for that goal; but, where was everyone else? Beckerman was late to engage once Bradley got stripped of the ball by Eder. Beasley did a decent job keeping Ronaldo to the outside and that pass the Winker made was spot on. Can’t see fault there. But, Ronaldo had 1 person to pass it to with everyone, including the other Portugal players, trailing. Varela should have been boxed in between 2 of the 3 central defenders out on the field at that time. Instead, Cameron let him get a goal side position on him while Besler looks like he was ball watching and/or too spent to catch-up. Why was Omar trailing the play so poorly when he had the freshest legs on the pitch. Poor communications with the other center backs or just rusty from not having played before? Maybe Brooks, who had proven himself, should have been put in instead. I do not know.


Subbing in Yeldin with about 15 minutes left though was a good decision, his speed drove the tied Portuguese, who burnt though all of their subs with 30 minutes left in the match, nuts.
By the way, I am hoping Klimsman’s post game rant of the US’s game and travel schedule, which is spot on for the most part except that the US should have picked a more centrally located base camp, does not bite the US in the arse. I can see FIFA encouraging a call or two from the officials.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Bradley made a bad mistake at the end of the game. It's pretty clear, everybody thinks I'm some kind of idiot when it comes to soccer and competition, and the end of that game, but if we aren't playing to run out the clock, and haven't taken the posture and attitude of doing that in the final 15 minutes of the game after going up 2-1, Bradley is never in that position to make that mistake, and I don't buy this nonsense of wanting to put the ball as far away from your own goal. Portugal scored a game tying goal from that turnover, from well within their own side of the field, in about 4 seconds. It would take about 6-8 seconds to score a goal from the far corner, if the passes and spacing are right. Bradley also made some really good plays, and was very unlucky not scoring the goal - which reminds me again of why the end of that game makes no sense - the USA was generating scoring chance after scoring chance all game long - how is it not clear to anyone watching, that the moment we gave up the win, was when we stopped going for scoring chances?

maybe this is the prevailing attitude as to what is correct to do in soccer - and if that is the case, that the way the end of that game was played by the USA is the prevailing wisdom in soccer - it's probably why I don't really like the sport much. I hope that our American attitude to play to win - takes over. Never take your foot off the gas. And I am not making the argument to play stupidly - just stick with a concept and plan and be consistent. They had already made the defensive oriented substitutions -when the offensive player is able to make a run at the goal - take the opportunity. That's all I think.

I like that Klinsmann was asked about his decision making at the end of game in the post game interview I just watched. Second guessing himself. He looked confused at the question. Then he said there will be things to look at and correct, but the game is over and all that matters is going forward. I might not know much about soccer, but I bet that one of the things they will look at is how those last 15 minutes played out and how they got tentative in the offensive end after going up 2-1.

Klinsmann had already made the substitution with an extra defender to protect at the back, why change the offensive attack when you've got the opportunity?

I let it be now - promise. The game on Thursday will be interesting, I'm hoping for an all out effort, and an American win.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Still in good shape tiebreaker wise. A blowout loss to Germany and a Ghana win against Portugal is really the only way we don't advance (I don't think Portugal will blow out Ghana).

Unfortunately, I see Ghana as a team that can match the US’s strength, speed, and endurance and they have an extra days rest before facing Portugal, which is likely spent, though they do get Pepe back. It’s a nightmare match-up for the Portuguese. Big concern is Ghana beating Portugal by more than 2 goals.

 

[SubbaBub]

True, but, but, he did lose it in their half 60+ yards away from goal. The defense should have been able to cover for the mistake. There was only 1 guy in the box for Portugal and like 4-5 defenders. Granted it was a great, world class cross from the player of the year. But, come on, clear that out, anywhere.

True Bradley has had a poor WC so far. I'm hoping something clicks on for him soon.

Yes, I spouted a diatribe on everyone's breakdowns on that play. But, I see this in a similar vein to the end of the Alabama/Auburn game. I'm sure Bradley knew what to do, but that trap/first touch was terrible for a player of his caliber. Hence, the fumble comparison.

 

[ZooCougar]

JK's substitution decisions last night were impeccable. He's made great managerial decisions in this World Cup. We're scoring two goals a game.

Now he just needs to extract Michael Bradey's head from his arse.

 

[ZooCougar]

Yes, I spouted a diatribe on everyone's breakdowns on that play. But, I see this in a similar vein to the end of the Alabama/Auburn game. I'm sure Bradley knew what to do, but that trap/first touch was terrible for a player of his caliber. Hence, the fumble comparison.

He's just been awful in mishandling the ball all tournament.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Or Portugal 4-0 and Germany 3-1 and Portugal advances on total goals.


Btw, almost zero chance less that 4 goals in the Gha/Por game. Neither team is interested in playing defense. Should be a good game to watch. US/Ger will hopefully be the most boring soccer match of all time. If I'm them, I kick the ball of in each half and let it sit there in the circle for 45 minutes.

That has been done before and (West) Germany was one of the two teams involved. Even has a name, ‘Nichtangriffspakt von Gijón.’

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germany_1%E2%80%930_Austria

One advantage is that no one in Group H strikes fear for the round of 16. Belgium has played below expectations. Russia just does not look that good. Algeria could pose a physical match-up issue; but, they let in too many goals. Thus the question going forward is if there is a preference as to who to play in the next 2 rounds. The 1G seed would likely be matched with France in the quarterfinals and then Brazil in the semis while 2G would likely face Argentina in the quarterfinal and maybe the Netherlands in the semi’s. Does Germany have a preferred route? Do they have injury/fitness concerns? That will determine if they fight for a win (but can settle with a tie as they would still get the 1G seed) or would they settle for a tie and risk a loss, which should still get them in on goal differential.

 

[Dooley]

Unfortunately, I see Ghana as a team that can match the US’s strength, speed, and endurance and they have an extra days rest before facing Portugal, which is likely spent, though they do get Pepe back. It’s a nightmare match-up for the Portuguese. Big concern is Ghana beating Portugal by more than 2 goals.

My hope is that Ronaldo is disgusted with himself over 95 minutes of mediocre play against the U.S. that he puts in a gutsy effort against Ghana. That man can create against anyone in the world. As we saw last night, all he needs is a few feet of room. I think he'll get that because Ghana will be pressing to score goals too. I'm worried that he's nursing an injury and will carry over his lackluster play against the U.S. into the Ghana game. But he played the full game last night and was able to create a beautiful cross in the last seconds so maybe he's not as injured as rumored. Just a bit off, so far.

Ghana is a very good team but their weakness is their back line. Both the U.S. and Germany poked holes in their back line on set pieces/corners. That sort of weakness falls right into Portugal's wheelhouse.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I am just glad that the USMNT keeps those antics to a minimum. Portugal should have earned about three red cards for acting last night.

I don't have a problem with PKs. PKs are part of the game, everyone knows that after a certain point the game will be decided in PKs. It's much better than some awful 20 inning baseball game.

I do wish that OT was sudden death though. If in OT, the team that score first wins. Period.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

So now my dilemma, Thursday night USA vs. Germany and everyone is asking me where I'm watching the game... At the bar which will be full of drunks having fun (possibly at my expense), at a friends house with a bunch of people (and kids!) having fun (possibly at my expense), or at home alone... I really feel bad punching kids, but if they get mouthy... Look out!

I hate living in Germany right now... I knew this was going to happen when they drew the groups...

On the Portugal’s first goal with my 7 year old sitting me, I screamed, ‘that was fucoolish.‘ My wife gave me a look basically saying, I am glad you saved that one or no more World Cup for you.’ I’ll be taking a long lunch break for work on Thursday and watch the game at the bar by the office.

 

[meyers7]

Yeah, I get that. Did you understand anything I wrote though? I will concede, and already did before, that playing to the corner was a correct play. Tactically. I disagree that it was the only "correct" play. Strategically, I disagree with that approach late in the game. Completely. To me, that kind play goes against everything the USA was doing all game long, and I won't change my mind on this - that - is a bad thing to do late in a game. Especially when the other team is the frame of mind it was. Had we been playing that kind of game all day long, I have a different opinion, but we were taking shots on goal all day, from everywhere, close - far from goal, everywhere. I think, that had we maintained the mindset of attacking the goal, all the way to the end - we win that game and have advanced already. They had already made the tactical substitutions, and set up the defensive posture. I think it was mistake. Game over. Tie. Germany next. I believe that if we do the same thing and change that kind of approach against Germany - we lose. I hope we don't.

I completely understand your position. But any coach who would do that would/should be fired. If in Gridiron you had your QB throwing the ball when he could have taken a knee and ran the clock out and not put his team in jeopardy, that would be very bad tactically and strategically and should get you fired. Sure it may work, maybe you score another TD, but that would still be a very poor decision making for a coach.
Do you understand what I am writing?

There is quite a difference in doing the correct thing and getting unlucky than doing something dumb and getting lucky.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Yes, I spouted a diatribe on everyone's breakdowns on that play. But, I see this in a similar vein to the end of the Alabama/Auburn game. I'm sure Bradley knew what to do, but that trap/first touch was terrible for a player of his caliber. Hence, the fumble comparison.

Ok - sorry - not done yet, but I have a different example, a more personal one. The North Carolina loss 5 years ago. 12-10, after being up 10-0 in the final 15 minutes. Watching the final 15 minutes of that game soccer game yesterday, after going up 2-1 was essentially the same feeling for me. It still burns me - worst coached game of Edsall's career IMO. We went completely away from everything we had done up to that point to get up 10-0 and went into a shell of an attitude in play calling and approach, and gave away all the momentum, to a top 25 ranked team, on the road, that had their backs up against the wall. We end up giving up the lead on, of all things, a holding penalty in our own endzone - safety. The game ends with a last second, meaningless offensive play, that ended in a sack if I'm not mistaken.

Things happen a lot faster in soccer, than they do in football, because you can't start and stop play, and because of that, the flow of the game, as mentally, and emotionally for the players, is THAT much more important, you can't stop to regroup.

My bet, is that if Klinsmann had the opportunity to call a TO, and huddle his player at some point in that last 15 minutes, he would have, and he would have told them to keep the pedal to medal when they have the ball on offense. I would bet that when they review the game film, especially the last 15 minutes, that's exactly what they will talk about - how they went tentative in the final 15 minutes after scoring the go ahead goal, and that they should not have done that.

If I am wrong, so what - who cares except those of you actually reading this.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I completely understand your position. But any coach who would do that would/should be fired. If in Gridiron you had your QB throwing the ball when he could have taken a knee and ran the clock out and not put his team in jeopardy, that would be very bad tactically and strategically and should get you fired. Sure it may work, maybe you score another TD, but that would still be a very poor decision making for a coach.
Do you understand what I am writing?

There is quite a difference in doing the correct thing and getting unlucky than doing something dumb and getting lucky.

You're arguing with a guy who still thinks that McEntee should've thrown the ball in Nashville 3 years ago. LOL.

 

[junglehusky]

News flash - taking the ball to the corner with minutes left when you have the lead is playing to win. If there's 30 minutes to play and you're tied, then I agree with Carl's distaste -- in the first or second game... totally different story if this happens with Germany. The situation dictates tactics.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I completely understand your position. But any coach who would do that would/should be fired. If in Gridiron you had your QB throwing the ball when he could have taken a knee and ran the clock out and not put his team in jeopardy, that would be very bad tactically and strategically and should get you fired. Sure it may work, maybe you score another TD, but that would still be a very poor decision making for a coach.
Do you understand what I am writing?

There is quite a difference in doing the correct thing and getting unlucky than doing something dumb and getting lucky.

I have made many comparisons between the sports, similarities. But here you are wrong, there is nothing similar in the play calling at the end of a football game, as to the approach that we went into on the offensive at the end of the game vs. Portugal. You can start and stop, and regroup yourself all the time in football, you have to be constant in soccer. Klinsmann didn't make any decisions, except the substitutions and he ahd substituted a defensive player!!! How is everyone ignoring this - it was the players on the field themselves started playing tentatively - klinsmann didn't tell them to play conservative at the end, and I just wrote that I think, that if had the opportunity to call a timeout, he would have told them to continue to attack the goal!!! How is trying to score a goal, when you can, a bad thing to do?

Soccer is a strange sport.

The object - is to impose your will on the other team. Demoralize them. Competition. To UCONN football, the best win, the most effective we have ever been at this level of play we've been at since 2000 was the bowl game win over South Carolina in 2009. We ended that game, with the QB taking a knee, with the lead, at the opposing team's 5 yard line or something, instead of punching it in for the TD.

There is absolutely nothing demoralizeing that taking the ball into the corners could have done for Portugal, at the end of that game, when our offensive players had the opportunity to attack, and my opinion is that it's actually contrary - and was uplifiting to the attitudes of the Portugese players.

 

[Carl Spackler]

News flash - taking the ball to the corner when you have the lead is playing to win.

A one goal lead, in soccer, doesn't appear to be safe lead. I already wrote elsewhere that a 3-1 game, a 2 goal lead, that changes things - play to run out the clock, by all means.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You're arguing with a guy who still thinks that McEntee should've thrown the ball in Nashville 3 years ago. LOL.

Play calls are awesome when they work, and absolutely idiotic when they don't. I do think that going for the first down, was the correct thing to do. I would do it again. What happened to Don Brown's defense in that game, is often overlooked by McEntee's throw.

 

[meyers7]

Yes the NFL has a coin toss as like the 15th option. It's virtually impossible. Much more likely to happen in soccer. I also don't know why H2H isn't given more weight than goal differential. If Germany wins and the US and Ghana are tied for second, no way should Ghana advance.

I like your idea about taking a player off every 10 or 15 minutes of OT. Playoff hockey they play until there's a goal. Put the subs in.

I think (imo) one reason they may go with GD first is theoretically it should promote more attacking soccer (and for most people, attacking soccer is more interesting). If you grab a goal and defend for 80 minutes and end up with a +1 GD vs pushing for more goals, maybe win 2-0 0r 3-0 and have a +2 or +3 GD. And it could possibly eliminate teams earlier. More exciting (should produce better games) with more teams still alive. Theoretically that is.

Also, why shouldn't Ghana advance. They drew Germany, we didn't (theoretically in the future), they beat Portugal, we didn't. (and really they outplayed us in our game, though we got the result). (think I got those scenarios right)

In some leagues, (pretty sure La Liga - Spain) they do go by head to head.