OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[whaler11]

Why would it matter to Liverpool? Does the FA not allow the national coach to also coach a club team?? I have no clue b/c it's a different country but we allow our Olympic coaches to coach NBA/College teams.

Because it would be like Joe Girardi coaching in the College World Series. There is a ton of
overlap.

 

[UCFBfan]

Because it would be like Joe Girardi coaching in the College World Series. There is a ton of
overlap.

That makes sense as the qualifiers are during the Prem season.

 

[meyers7]

Alright, now we're talking.....only in the most inflexible and basic offensive play calling systems is there no room for players to do anything except exactly what they're programmed to do. What Martz did with the Rams - and he was able to do it b/c he players smart enough, skilled enough, and communicating well enough, was to incorporate a new wrinkle into the Sid Gillman, Don Coryell basics of stretching the field both vertically and horizontally. It's called many different things now, but it's basically a 'choice' route tree. BTW: Building a football offensive play calling system, specifically a passing attack, is a lot more than WR's running single route assignments. Each downfield option to throw the ball (up to 5 on any down) - has it's own specific route tree - literally b/c when you draw it up you're basically drawing a tree trunk with branches - there will be numbering systems, letters, etc. whatever the playbook is written up as - to identify with specific branch of the tree is supposed to happen on any given play. But with more dynamic offenses, you don't have the only one option in the play call, players will have multiple options on where to get on the field based on the defensive alignment. The Rams offense back then, used the short crossing routes out of the backfield as the primary read for those things. It was an amazing offense to watch back then, because when the deep balls would be thrown, Kurt Warner would drop back 3 steps from under center, and let loose a very high arcing ball deep that based on the original formation at the line of scrimmage, looked like he was throwing away to open space, especially when defenses would bring pressue and blitz, but would hang up in the air for awhile, and then a receiver would run under it and catch it.

Watching these long ball passes to open space in soccer is essentially the same thing, the player passing knows where the open space is going to be, and knows he's got a player that can get there.

Most sophisticated passing offenses, from high school up through pros use some variation of the choice routes since the 1999-2001 NFL seasons and the Rams success with it, but it requires a ton of practice - and------decision making on the fly - from multiple players on the offense. QB and downfield receiving options.

Other examples of the decision making in football as well - involve blocking - blocking is not quite as simple as line up and hit the guy in front of you. There are adjustments that need to be made at the line of scrimmage regularly with regards to matching up the offensive front with defensive front 7. BTW - we absolutely sucked at this in the past 2 1/2 seasons under George Deleone. THe guy was a complete clusterf-ck of coach. With a veteran center returning, our old OL coach back, and a whole bunch of people that seem to be able to motivate and communicate well, I hope and expect that to improve.but even more so - the QB and backfield have to looking at the spacing on the field, and understanding the offensive play call, and making decisions about who to block on a pass protection.

This is the biggest reason why most tailbacks coming into college from high school, or into the NFL from college, do not play regularly for at least a season or two - it takes a lot of training and practice to be able to be back there, and make the right decisions about who to block.

From the other perspective, which is my favorite, you'll hear DL's, linebackers and especially safeties, and MLB's talking about making sure their "fits" are right. THey are not talking about fitness or having a fit - they are talking about filling spaces. Leveraging the offense - if one single player takes a bad angle on making contact, and doesn't get their "fit" right - especially from the back line of the defense - it can mean the difference between squashing a play at the line of scrimmage, or giving up a huge play.

THis happened when he crumbled against Michigan late in the game last season. One single player goes to the wrong shoulder, of the offensive player, and fills the wrong gap, and the play goes for a touchdown. Those guys back there, on the last level of the D, need to make choices on the fly too.

The thing that is very consistent for me between the two sports, is that offense is about creating space on the field to advance the ball, and defense is about taking away space to stop the ball.

THis is why it would be interesting for me, to learn how soccer practices are set up, to help players understand spacing and decision making

Yea that's pretty much what I said. They have specific routes to run. Granted when they get to the line of scrimmage they are making reads. And from those reads they run a specific route. They are not creating on the fly. They are following a script (playbook). In fact if they don't run a specified route, the QB is not going to be happy with them. Sometimes I'm sure you have seen a QB make one read and the receiver a different read. i.e. the receiver runs an in and the QB throws an out. You're describing the "trees" is exactly what I was talking about.

And yes the Center will normally make the blocking calls at the line.

And all this happens before the snap. When play actually takes place, they already have their assignments and they better not change what's expected. (again unless there is a broken play).

Really the only time that decisions are made "live" are the QB going down his progression. But he has a specific progression to go down. One could possibly make a case of an option QB, but he's really not "creating" on the fly. He's following his reads (where's the DE, etc.), his script.

You pretty much validated my argument.

Defense is a different animal. Wasn't really talking about that. They probably are more similar in that a lot of what they do is react.

 

[meyers7]

BTW: Before some jackwagon makes some more comments about holiday inns, know it all, etc....I'm writing this to you, because I don't recognize you around here, and I enjoy the perspective of learning new things - and soccer is something new to me, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure what your experience with football is, but making the assumption, adn we know what ass u me can mean, but whatever...just making the assumption that perhaps you don't get into American football the way I do..

I know quite a bit about most sports. I don't follow some of the major sports as much as I used to. Since soccer is on pretty much all the time and I find it infinitely more interesting than any other sport, that's where most of my time is spent. I used to be able to know all the baseball players, football players, basketball players, but I just don't have the time anymore. When you are following the NBA, NFL, MLB you only have to follow 1 league. When I follow soccer, I'm following 4-5 leagues, plus national teams. Just takes a lot of time.

I don't follow UCONN football that much, I am 1st a Michigan fan when it comes to college football. I grew up out in the midwest, so I started liking them 40+ years ago. I usually am over on the WBB board. I like to see the MBB and FB do well, but I don't really follow them.

 

[meyers7]

http://gfycat.com/DeepMetallicChafer

Thanks, they kept showing Suarez's finish, which was great, but not showing the headed ball.

 

[whaler11]

I know quite a bit about most sports. I don't follow some of the major sports as much as I used to. Since soccer is on pretty much all the time and I find it infinitely more interesting than any other sport, that's where most of my time is spent. I used to be able to know all the baseball players, football players, basketball players, but I just don't have the time anymore. When you are following the NBA, NFL, MLB you only have to follow 1 league. When I follow soccer, I'm following 4-5 leagues, plus national teams. Just takes a lot of time.

I don't follow UCONN football that much, I am 1st a Michigan fan when it comes to college football. I grew up out in the midwest, so I started liking them 40+ years ago. I usually am over on the WBB board. I like to see the MBB and FB do well, but I don't really follow them.

So for someone like you do you love the Champions League? Or are the individual leagues more important?

I love the structure of the EPL. I love relegation and promotion. I love that there are no playoffs.

I just can't go all in because I hate that the same few clubs spend billions and horde all the great players.

The thing I can't stand about MLS is how they Americanized it. I get why the ownership structure makes relegation impossible - it would be much more attractive to me at least if it were structured like the EPL.

 

[Waquoit]

I'm listening on radio and JP and Tommy are adamant it was offsides.

The TV guys were Brits and the didn't 2nd guess it at all.

 

[whaler11]

The TV guys were Brits and the didn't 2nd guess it at all.

I haven't seen it anywhere else, but they said it when he scored, after he scored and on the postgame. They are calling the games off monitors in Bristol so I guess it makes sense they could miss something and stick with it.

 

[Waquoit]

They are calling the games off monitors in Bristol so I guess it makes sense they could miss something and stick with it.

I thought they were in Brazil.

 

[whaler11]

I thought they were in Brazil.

The radio guys I believe are in Bristol. They always used to be.

 

[Waquoit]

I thought they were in Brazil.

Sorry, I lost the train. Yeah, I don't think they would send the radio guys to Brazil.

 

[meyers7]

So for someone like you do you love the Champions League? Or are the individual leagues more important?

I love the structure of the EPL. I love relegation and promotion. I love that there are no playoffs.

I just can't go all in because I hate that the same few clubs spend billions and horde all the great players.

The thing I can't stand about MLS is how they Americanized it. I get why the ownership structure makes relegation impossible - it would be much more attractive to me at least if it were structured like the EPL.

Yes, I do follow the CL. Some of the best soccer being played. And my team (Arsenal) are always in it, so that gives me more incentive.

It would be cool if MLS could do regulation, but I doubt it would ever go over here. Owners of course wouldn't want to put up all that money only to not get to play in the league anymore. Maybe if the NASL became stronger??

 

[whaler11]

Sorry, I lost the train. Yeah, I don't think they would send the radio guys to Brazil.

I've listened a lot this week - JP and Tommy are great. Everyone else is fine except Shep Messing. Shep Messing sounds like they pulled him out of a middle school gym class 15 minutes before the game.

 

[ZooCougar]

Yes, I do follow the CL. Some of the best soccer being played. And my team (Arsenal) are always in it, so that gives me more incentive.

It would be cool if MLS could do regulation, but I doubt it would ever go over here. Owners of course wouldn't want to put up all that money only to not get to play in the league anymore. Maybe if the NASL became stronger??

I can't see that system working here. The culture here is that owners want that security. I was living near Kaiserslautern when FC Kaiserslautern was relegated in the Bundesliga. The ramifications are huge, it's almost like getting stuck in the AAC. Less TV money, less everything.

 

[Waquoit]

Go Ticos!

 

[UConnTrumbull]

CONCACAF lookin like the former Big East

 

[meyers7]

I can't see that system working here. The culture here is that owners want that security. I was living near Kaiserslautern when FC Kaiserslautern was relegated in the Bundesliga. The ramifications are huge, it's almost like getting stuck in the AAC. Less TV money, less everything.

Yea, I agree, don't expect it here. Least not in my lifetime.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Go Ticos!

Costa Rica's first half goal was great.

Just saw a shot of Italy's fan section, looked like the waiting room at Blue Man Group tryouts.

 

[SubbaBub]

Yea, I agree, don't expect it here. Least not in my lifetime.

There is a core difference between the league/franchise system in the US and the Federation/club system abroad.

If the NFL had sway over all football in the US, then you could have teams the quality of Alabama and FSU move up and the Jags move down. Player contract salaries are tied to the league their in or have clauses releasing them if relegated.

Basically, the club name moves down but most of the better players disperse.

 

[Jimdish255]

Lousy break for Honduras on the performance art purchased by the referee leading to the free kick goal. Honduras down one with twenty to go vs Ecuador.

 

[UCFBfan]

Pretty awesome story about Rip, his masks, and Clint Dempsey.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/worldcup/2...rral&utm_content=WorldCup&utm_campaign=Unpaid

 

[spsct]

I can't see that system working here. The culture here is that owners want that security. I was living near Kaiserslautern when FC Kaiserslautern was relegated in the Bundesliga. The ramifications are huge, it's almost like getting stuck in the AAC. Less TV money, less everything.

Great analogy... A couple of years ago Frankfurt got relegated and you would have thought it was the end of the world.

I really like the relegation / promotion system as it adds excitement to both ends of the table.

I agree with the previous poster (meyers7?) that the top teams have a huge advantage and horde the best players. I would say Bayern München will most likely win the Bundesliga for the next 4-5 years and it probably won't be close. I'm a fan of a relatively small club from Mainz, so I know we will never sniff the CL, let alone the Bundesliga title; but that makes the matches more fun due to no pressure.

Champions League (and to a lesser extent Europa League) tournaments are a bit of a mystery to me... People will hate Bayern for 34 match days a year but if they play in the CL everyone is a Bayern fan because they are a German team... Weird. It's like a Red Sox fan cheering for the Yankees in the WS because they are an AL team. I couldn't do it.

So says the jackwagon...

 

[UConnDan97]

Great analogy... A couple of years ago Frankfurt got relegated and you would have thought it was the end of the world.

I really like the relegation / promotion system as it adds excitement to both ends of the table.

I agree with the previous poster (meyers7?) that the top teams have a huge advantage and horde the best players. I would say Bayern München will most likely win the Bundesliga for the next 4-5 years and it probably won't be close. I'm a fan of a relatively small club from Mainz, so I know we will never sniff the CL, let alone the Bundesliga title; but that makes the matches more fun due to no pressure.

Champions League (and to a lesser extent Europa League) tournaments are a bit of a mystery to me... People will hate Bayern for 34 match days a year but if they play in the CL everyone is a Bayern fan because they are a German team... Weird. It's like a Red Sox fan cheering for the Yankees in the WS because they are an AL team. I couldn't do it.

So says the jackwagon...

There are some in each country that would NOT cheer for their country's teams in Champions League, to go along with your Red Sox / Yankees analogy (I know this happens with Inter and AC Milan in Italy). Hated rivals aren't well received, even when battling other countries.

I would LOVE to see a relegation system in at least one major sport in the US. It would make some things a lot better, in my opinion. You would see a lot less teams that don't put money back into their rosters (I'm thinking specifically of MLB teams). Also, the entire season is exciting for every team involved, and every game becomes meaningful...

 

[DarthGrumpy]

There are some in each country that would NOT cheer for their country's teams in Champions League, to go along with your Red Sox / Yankees analogy (I know this happens with Inter and AC Milan in Italy). Hated rivals aren't well received, even when battling other countries.

I would LOVE to see a relegation system in at least one major sport in the US. It would make some things a lot better, in my opinion. You would see a lot less teams that don't put money back into their rosters (I'm thinking specifically of MLB teams). Also, the entire season is exciting for every team involved, and every game becomes meaningful...

Regulation would also kneecap the bain of pro sports in the US - owners pitting cities and their taxpayers against each other to get team X to move from city A to city B. If regulation was in place, an owner could simply buy a local team, put money into them and then they can earn their way up to the majors.

 

[UCFBfan]

Relegation would only work in soccer as it is the only sport in the world where it exists. So why not have it in MLS? The simple answer is that there aren't enough fans to support this. If the bottom three teams in MLS got relegated to USL or NASL or whatever the second tier would be, those teams would likely fold as no one would go. There's just not enough interest yet to support this. Also, lets say three teams from USL get promoted, do you really think their attendance is going to sky rocket? Probably not as there are no major superstars in MLS like in other leagues. Should attendance spike and rise as has been happening slowly, this could be an option. However, as someone said in an earlier post, probably not in our lifetimes....

I guess college football could institute this rule on second thought.....