OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[Husky25]

Interested to see if Chile retreats into a defensive position for 70 minutes vs. one of the best teams in the world like the US did.

 

[BlueMAB]

Ole, Chile!

 

[Waquoit]

I was reading a few blogs. The only change anybody thought was Chandler for Beasely. Need more athleticism on left side. Downside too many giveaways. They will have to stick with Johanssen for better or worse.

Then what am I supposed to do with my Beasley kit?

 

[Carl Spackler]

Lots and lots of training with the same players who live and die with each other. Each player knows by heart what his role is, what everyone else’s role is, and what a look/nod/hand gesture mean. It’s one reason why the World Cup gets all of the attention, the premier club teams in England, Spain, Germany, Italy, etc. usually play a better than the national teams. Just look at Portugal versus Real Madrid. It’s also why so many goals in the Cup are off of set pieces because it’s a set play that coaches can quickly prep a team for.

I should have guessed it right away, since the game itself is constant motion, that designing game plans and tactics and developing strategies and how to train for those things would all be constant motion too. I think it would be interesting to watch some practices, to see how soccer teams train their players to be able to do these things mentally. There are things about attacking spaces and decision making on the fly, that I'm seeing in soccer that remind me a lot of the offense that Mike Martz designed in the late 1990s that stormed the NFL and won the Rams a super bowl. Smart players that can make decisions and do smart things - especially on offense - to create space - and be able to communicate it to other players? HUGE thing to be able to do on offense in football. I bet Quarterbacks, WR"s and Tailbacks would benefit greatly from the kind of decision making training that must go into soccer practice.

In soccer, it seems to me that there are basically two ways to attack and advance the ball, well three - one is the actual shot on goal - but the other two are to either target a pass to a player directly, or to target a space on the field and put the ball there, and a player is supposed to go get it there - and should be free to do so without a defender on them, if it's done right. I think the pass to open space is much more effective, and probably a lot more difficult to master.

 

[BlueMAB]

That makes a whole hell of a lot of sense to me. I wrote this somewhere before, probably a few pages ago - watching the game the other night, by the middle of the second half, people I was watching with were freaking out about the repeated attacks and crosses coming from the left side (or right, depending on how you are supposed to look at it from perspective - BTW - I finally figured out that I was counting my numbers backwards with regards to this 4-4-2, 4-3-2-1. 4-2-3-1 stuff)....slow learner there. but anyway, it had happened so often, and I do remember Klinsmann making adjustments in prior games when things weren't working in the field, that I remarked that allowing that stuff to happen must be what they wanted to happen with their game plan. I got some incredulous looks, and the comments about sticking to American football. I remember Klinsmann confirming afterward in interviews that they knew there would be a lot of crossing passes in front of the goal, but nothing really dangerous - something to that effect. The one goal they got, came from a different kind of attack.

I read as well leading up to the game that Ghana like attack up the middle and the goal would have to be force them wide. So that strategy was apparent and it clearly worked.

However, I don't think Klinsmann planned on having his guys do that for 90 minutes. I'm sure they wanted to take possession, maintain it, move the ball up the field and take some pressure off the defense for more than 30 seconds at a time. They failed miserably in that regard, lots of things to clean up, but the result is most important.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I read as well leading up to the game that Ghana like attack up the middle and the goal would have to be force them wide. So that strategy was apparent and it clearly worked.

However, I don't think Klinsmann planned on having his guys do that for 90 minutes. I'm sure they wanted to take possession, maintain it, move the ball up the field and take some pressure off the defense for more than 30 seconds at a time. They failed miserably in that regard, lots of things to clean up, but the result is most important.

I agree. Lots of room to improve.

 

[RioDog]

Things looking bad for the defending world champs...

 

[StevieDude]

Wow about time to put a fork in Spain.

 

[SAMCRO]

Spain was definitely not the European team I thought would struggle playing in Brazil. Looks like having Real, Atletico, and Barca make deep runs (all 3 in the semi and 2 in the final) for UCL, and La Liga coming down to the last game between Barca and Atletico to determine the champion took a lot out of those players. A lot of Portuguese players played for those 3 club teams as well!

 

[junglehusky]

Is it common for soccer players to have only one name? Fred. Pepe. ? I think I've seen it a few times - players listed with only one name - no first and last.

Maybe this is one of the things lacking from USA soccer. Perhaps Clint Dempsey shouldn't be Clint Dempsey anymore, and just be Clint.

If anyone on the squad should go by one name, it's Graham Zusi. Not as Graham (too english sounding) - he should be just Zusi. Maybe tack on an accent - Zusí. Can a name sound any more fùtbol than Zusí?

 

[junglehusky]

You know... not to be a hipster or anything, but USA were beating Spain before it was cool -

 

[StevieDude]

Okay your a Spanish fan. You won the World Cup in '10 and the Euro in '08 & '12. This has got to be disappointing but are they suicidal?

 

[whaler11]

If anyone on the squad should go by one name, it's Graham Zusi. Not as Graham (too english sounding) - he should be just Zusi. Maybe tack on an accent - Zusí. Can a name sound any more fùtbol than Zusí?

Max should join him.

 

[BlueMAB]

Spain could have played in Madrid and they would have lost both those games. Maybe it was tired legs, but they made absolutely no adjustments to what wasn't working.

 

[SAMCRO]

There will be a new World Cup Champion crowned in 2014! Now let's hope the US can officially send Spain's neighbors on the Iberian Peninsula home after starting 0-2 as well.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I read as well leading up to the game that Ghana like attack up the middle and the goal would have to be force them wide. So that strategy was apparent and it clearly worked.

However, I don't think Klinsmann planned on having his guys do that for 90 minutes. I'm sure they wanted to take possession, maintain it, move the ball up the field and take some pressure off the defense for more than 30 seconds at a time. They failed miserably in that regard, lots of things to clean up, but the result is most important.

Klimsman said as much and even indicated the very early goal along with Jozy’s injury and Dempsey’s nose put the US into a defensive posture far earlier than he had hoped for. Their inability to control possions through the midfield also did not help.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

There will be a new World Cup Champion crowned in 2014! Now let's hope the US can officially send Spain's neighbors on the Iberian Peninsula home after starting 0-2 as well.

2014 = The year of the Iberian Meltdown, part II brought to everyone by the good , old US of A.

 

[rich1122]

Spain could have played in Madrid and they would have lost both those games. Maybe it was tired legs, but they made absolutely no adjustments to what wasn't working.

Aging superstars. Looks like the Yankees with A-Rod and Jeter. No juice whatsoever. Understand more now what Klinsman was driving at.

 

[spsct]

You're hilarous. First you say he isn't that good now even though he isn't that good you want to gameplan him. OK.

And all this coming from a guy who admittedly knows little about soccer, but he did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[SAMCRO]

Today's line up with some huge implications.....
12pm Colombia v Ivory Coast in what should be an up and down, attacking style of play. A win all but assures you get out of group stage, but Colombia has more grandiose plans than just getting out of the group stage. This should be a fun one to watch, wish I was able to.

3pm Uruguay v England in a must win, or more accurately, a must not lose match up. IMO, this is the MOTD! Curious to see if Suarez is ready to go. His Liverpool mates may have something in store for him.

6pm Greece v Japan in another must not lose game.

 

[meyers7]

Interested to see if Chile retreats into a defensive position for 70 minutes vs. one of the best teams in the world like the US did.

Chile really doesn't know how to do that. And they didn't.

 

[meyers7]

I should have guessed it right away, since the game itself is constant motion, that designing game plans and tactics and developing strategies and how to train for those things would all be constant motion too. I think it would be interesting to watch some practices, to see how soccer teams train their players to be able to do these things mentally. There are things about attacking spaces and decision making on the fly, that I'm seeing in soccer that remind me a lot of the offense that Mike Martz designed in the late 1990s that stormed the NFL and won the Rams a super bowl. Smart players that can make decisions and do smart things - especially on offense - to create space - and be able to communicate it to other players? HUGE thing to be able to do on offense in football. I bet Quarterbacks, WR"s and Tailbacks would benefit greatly from the kind of decision making training that must go into soccer practice.

Eh, don't think so really. Gridiron football, even Martz's kind is still based on specific assignments (blocking assignments, route assignments). Receiver reads are only to say, I'm gonna run this pattern or that pattern, no I'm gonna make up my own pattern. Even a QB who has to decide who he is going to throw too, which seems like on the fly decision making, isn't really. He is going through a progression that he has practiced over and over. I suppose when a play breaks down and a QB is run out of the pocket and receivers have run their routes, then it's on the fly decisions, but that's not what any coach/player wants to happen. That's when things have gone wrong.

As for soccer practicing to be able to create/think on the fly. They play the game a lot. Most coaches/players say "the game is the best teacher". They do lots of small sided games, 4v4, 5v5, etc. where they learn to create space, move into space, deny space, pass into space, deny passing lanes, etc. They learn to create their triangles and diamonds to be able to move the ball and give the passer options. Playing the game gives the passer/dribbler the experience of trying out all the different options, or creating/seeing new ones.

 

[Husky25]

As for soccer practicing to be able to create/think on the fly. They play the game a lot. Most coaches/players say "the game is the best teacher". They do lots of small sided games, 4v4, 5v5, etc. where they learn to create space, move into space, deny space, pass into space, deny passing lanes, etc. They learn to create their triangles and diamonds to be able to move the ball and give the passer options. Playing the game gives the passer/dribbler the experience of trying out all the different options, or creating/seeing new ones.

I used to love playing 5 v 2. I played left Fullback in my younger days and being one of the monkeys in the middle really taught teamwork, anticipation, and ball control.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Aging superstars. Looks like the Yankees with A-Rod and Jeter. No juice whatsoever. Understand more now what Klinsman was driving at.

I have to think a contributing factor to the underperformance for some traditional powers has to do with the grind/length of the European domestic leagues layered on top with UEFA/Champions leagues, FA competitions etc. Guys playing at the highest level clubs have a hell of a 10 month (August to May) grind. Sure, you can point out that it didnt bother Spain 4 years ago, etc... but cobbling a roster of in-form guys has to be tricky.

 

[meyers7]

I have to think a contributing factor to the underperformance for some traditional powers has to do with the grind/length of the European domestic leagues layered on top with UEFA/Champions leagues, FA competitions etc. Guys playing at the highest level clubs have a hell of a 10 month (August to May) grind. Sure, you can point out that it didnt bother Spain 4 years ago, etc... but cobbling a roster of in-form guys has to be tricky.

There was an article I read (today? yesterday?) about Spain's players not only have long club season's (so do most of the good teams), but also Spain has played long tournaments. Final of 2010 WC, 2008 and 2012 Euros, Confed Cup last year. And on top of that they've been milking the $$ out of being WC champs by playing friendlies all over the place.

Maybe it did wear them down??