OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[whaler11]

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/klinsmann-were-not-settling-draw-234841675.html

You should like to all the times he talked about bringing the fittest team he could then go watch the first game again. Talk is cheap but that concept is lost on you...

 

[Carl Spackler]

You should like to all the times he talked about bringing the fittest team he could then go watch the first game again. Talk is cheap but that concept is lost on you...

You just hate to be wrong, especially when writing at me. LOL.

Do you honestly think that we were not in good physical condition against Ghana? Is that what you mean? Did I misunderstand? this is the same team that was fitter and faster than every team we've played in the past year I've seen, right up to that first world cup match. Ghana has some very, very good athletes playing for them. So do we.

 

[whaler11]

You just hate to be wrong, especially when writing at me. LOL.

Do you honestly think that we were not in good physical condition against Ghana? Is that what you mean? Did I misunderstand? this is the same team that was fitter and faster than every team we've played in the past year I've seen, right up to that first world cup match. Ghana has some very, very good athletes playing for them. So do we.

We'll see what happens Sunday in the second half if it's tied and Germany has beat Ghana.

You may have missed two subs for hamstring issues by halftime and half a team that spent the game with cramping issues on Monday. I guess I missed all the issues Ghana and all the other teams are having.

If you think the US was faster than Ghana, wow I'd love to understand how Ghana dominated the play for almost the entire game.

 

[ZooCougar]

Ronaldo is the world player of the year right? Don't know who votes on that, but it seems a popularity contest I think, because in watching the Germany - Portugal game, it seems he's a pretty one dimensional player - clearly very good at attacking and goal scoring. I don't know if it's possible or not, but my feeling would be to develop some kind of tactics where you attack Ronaldo and make him defend when on the offensive, and when defending, pin the guy to the sidelines and keep the ball away.

You're judging the dude from watching him once? I hate Ronaldo and his incessant diving, but he is totally boss as a player. He's also not 100% right now.

By the way, the last time we faced Portugal they had Luis Figo who was named the best player in the world the year prior. We made him look silly in 2002. It happens.

 

[BlueMAB]

I did not see that performance, but even so, it doesn't change my opinion that a team playing solid team defense and with a good plan to force the ball away from the guy can be pretty effective - because I did watch the Germany - Portugal game.

(edit: and I wonder if the guy can defend, it did not seem that he was interested at all in getting back in defending in the game I watched. reminded me of lots of dangerous scorers in basketball. I honestly don't know if he plays a position on the field where that matters much in soccer, but if it were possible to develop such a plan, I would make it a focus to go at him when on the offensive and make him defend, or go by him. I admit freely, that my sample size of watching the player is very small - could be entirely wrong about his ability to defend - and as noted, I have no idea if it's even a legitimate thing to do in soccer game plans to go after him like I've written.)

11 players defend. But they don't all defend on their own final third of the field. If your team needs Ronaldo in the final third in order to get possession of the ball you're already screwed. Ronaldo should (and does) chase and pressure the ball when the opponents back line has it and is trying to advance out of their own final third.

If your plan is to go at Ronaldo on offense, then you've only gotten past the first line of their defense, you'll still have to deal with the midfielders, and back line. And sending the back on his side on repeated runs leaves him open for counter attacks. It's probably not worth the risk except for set pieces.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You're judging the dude from watching him once? I hate Ronaldo and his incessant diving, but he is totally boss as a player. He's also not 100% right now.

By the way, the last time we faced Portugal they had Luis Figo who was named the best player in the world the year prior. We made him look silly in 2002. It happens.

Yup - judging on watching once. it was a world cup game - I think it was an important game - no? If the guy is really hurt, and not just witch doctor, even more the reason to go after him in game planning. I'm wondering from the real soccer guys around here if it's something you can actually do - attack the position he plays when advancing the ball.

 

[ZooCougar]

We'll see what happens Sunday in the second half if it's tied and Germany has beat Ghana.

You may have missed two subs for hamstring issues by halftime and half a team that spent the game with cramping issues on Monday. I guess I missed all the issues Ghana and all the other teams are having.

If you think the US was faster than Ghana, wow I'd love to understand how Ghana dominated the play for almost the entire game.

Last time we played Ghana, we dominated play and still lost. Time of possession doesn't mean squat unless you finish.

And when Ghana equalized, the US picked up on possession and scored. That's all that counts. And against a team that we historically don't match up well against, I'll take it.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I did not see that performance, but even so, it doesn't change my opinion that a team playing solid team defense and with a good plan to force the ball away from the guy can be pretty effective - because I did watch the Germany - Portugal game.

(edit: and I wonder if the guy can defend, it did not seem that he was interested at all in getting back in defending in the game I watched. reminded me of lots of dangerous scorers in basketball. I honestly don't know if he plays a position on the field where that matters much in soccer, but if it were possible to develop such a plan, I would make it a focus to go at him when on the offensive and make him defend, or go by him. I admit freely, that my sample size of watching the player is very small - could be entirely wrong about his ability to defend - and as noted, I have no idea if it's even a legitimate thing to do in soccer game plans to go after him like I've written.)

Ronaldo is a great player, especially his ability to shot from anywhere. That said, I have always questioned his mental game and I absolutely hate his diving antics. He wants to the player to take the shot, to get the goal, to be in the limelight. Thus, I have always thought one way to beat him is to contest everything coming out of Portugal’s backfield and clog his passing lanes. Make him go back and win the ball and then carry to ball out himself. He does not like the grunt work. Then, use a zone defense to contain him and switch different players with different skills with fresher legs on and off him. Tire him out. Frustrate him. Do that and you end-up with a pretty boy, who loses interest in the game and spends most of it yapping to the refs for a foul and his own players for a pass.

 

[ZooCougar]

Yup - judging on watching once. it was a world cup game - I think it was an important game - no? If the guy is really hurt, and not just witch doctor, even more the reason to go after him in game planning. I'm wondering from the real soccer guys around here if it's something you can actually do - attack the position he plays when advancing the ball.

You're completely off the rails. In soccer you can't judge a player like Ronaldo on one game. It's just foolishly ignorant.

 

[Carl Spackler]

11 players defend. But they don't all defend on their own final third of the field. If your team needs Ronaldo in the final third in order to get possession of the ball you're already screwed. Ronaldo should (and does) chase and pressure the ball when the opponents back line has it and is trying to advance out of their own final third.

If your plan is to go at Ronaldo on offense, then you've only gotten past the first line of their defense, you'll still have to deal with the midfielders, and back line. And sending the back on his side on repeated runs leaves him open for counter attacks. It's probably not worth the risk except for set pieces.

That's what I was wondering. I get that he's a forward, and there are more players behind him, but was wondering if maybe there was some kind of way to get around him and put pressure on the defense. The overlapping runs from the back and give and go's would be the way I suppose, but you got to have some way to rotate in behind to protect the counter.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You're completely off the rails. In soccer you can't judge a player like Ronaldo on one game. It's just foolishly ignorant.

Whatever man - it's June, I'm a UCONN football fan, and there isn't a hell of a lot to talk about, in a month, I won't think again about soccer, but for now, it's pretty interesting to me, and the USA is going up against a team with supposedly the best player in the world this year, and if you're not going to game plan for that player, that's foolish - and holy sh----t, when you develop game plans, you don't look at what a team (or player) did a year ago, you look at what they did in the game last week. That's AMERICAN football 201.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Ronaldo is a great player, especially his ability to shot from anywhere. That said, I have always questioned his mental game and I absolutely hate his diving antics. He wants to the player to take the shot, to get the goal, to be in the limelight. Thus, I have always thought one way to beat him is to contest everything coming out of Portugal’s backfield and clog his passing lanes. Make him go back and win the ball and then carry to ball out himself. He does not like the grunt work. Then, use a zone defense to contain him and switch different players with different skills with fresher legs on and off him. Tire him out. Frustrate him. Do that and you end-up with a pretty boy, who loses interest in the game and spends most of it yapping to the refs for a foul and his own players for a pass.

If I had to write up a report on Ronaldo based on his most recent performance in the world cup, it would read something like that.

 

[BlueMAB]

That's what I was wondering. I get that he's a forward, and there are more players behind him, but was wondering if maybe there was some kind of way to get around him and put pressure on the defense. The overlapping runs from the back and give and go's would be the way I suppose, but you got to have some way to rotate in behind to protect the counter.

It's not needed or worth the risk against Portugal. Their back line is already suspect, and down two starters. We do send our backs on runs (Beasley often), but usually they are picked up by midfielders, it's not often a striker the class of Ronaldo is going to drop back to his 18 to cover. He'd prefer to let the defense win the ball, and then make a counter attack using his speed. Giving him a ball he can run with, facing one or two defenders with loads of space works to his advantage. When healthy, he's one of the fastest men in the world with the ball at his feet.

 

[ZooCougar]

Whatever man - it's June, I'm a UCONN football fan, and there isn't a hell of a lot to talk about, in a month, I won't think again about soccer, but for now, it's pretty interesting to me, and the USA is going up against a team with supposedly the best player in the world this year, and if you're not going to game plan for that player, that's foolish - and holy sh----t, when you develop game plans, you don't look at what a team (or player) did a year ago, you look at what they did in the game last week. That's AMERICAN football 201.

You're hilarous. First you say he isn't that good now even though he isn't that good you want to gameplan him. OK.

 

[Carl Spackler]

It's not needed or worth the risk against Portugal. Their back line is already suspect, and down two starters. We do send our backs on runs (Beasley often), but usually they are picked up by midfielders, it's not often a striker the class of Ronaldo is going to drop back to his 18 to cover. He'd prefer to let the defense win the ball, and then make a counter attack using his speed. Giving him a ball he can run with, facing one or two defenders with loads of space works to his advantage. When healthy, he's one of the fastest men in the world with the ball at his feet.

That makes sense to me. Watching Germany - Port the other day, Germany was attacking at one point, and the announcer was impressed that there were two guys running up on the ball, and one was a center back. As soon as the play settled down, it was very clear that the guy was way out of position on the field, and had to run way back.

It also makes sense that a forward wouldn't be that much involved in defending, especially close to their own goal, but I still think there probably has to be some way to develop an attacking play out of your own end, when there is a player that was as disinterested in defending as I saw on Monday. As soon as the ball was away from him, he was standing around and looking the other way. maybe that's normal for forwards in soccer.

I guess the question really is, if we've got the ability as a team to do what Germany did defensively against the guy, because they completely shut him down. We'll find out on Sunday.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You're hilarous. First you say he isn't that good now even though he isn't that good you want to gameplan him. OK.

Glad you are enjoying it. I never said anything the sort.

I didn't say he isn't good, quite the opposite - I;ve said many times, repeatedly, that I realize the guy has been voted the best player in the world this year. He's clearly somebody that should be important in planning for a game. What I"ve said is that the performance I've seen didn't impress me much and he seems quite one-dimensional - attacking only.

 

[BlueMAB]

That makes sense to me. Watching Germany - Port the other day, Germany was attacking at one point, and the announcer was impressed that there were two guys running up on the ball, and one was a center back. As soon as the play settled down, it was very clear that the guy was way out of position on the field, and had to run way back.

It also makes sense that a forward wouldn't be that much involved in defending, especially close to their own goal, but I still think there probably has to be some way to develop an attacking play out of your own end, when there is a player that was as disinterested in defending as I saw on Monday. As soon as the ball was away from him, he was standing around and looking the other way. maybe that's normal for forwards in soccer.

I guess the question really is, if we've got the ability as a team to do what Germany did defensively against the guy, because they completely shut him down. We'll find out on Sunday.

I don't want to take anything away from Germany, they are one of the best teams in the world. But Ronaldo's teammates helped take him out of the game. Early on there were times where he was open with 1v1 opportunities, and they didn't give him the ball. They definitely have chemistry issues. If we can score first (and preferably in the first half) they may implode again. The pressure is on them to win, not us.

 

[BlueMAB]

Did anyone see that Cahill goal? Holy sh--

 

[Carl Spackler]

I don't want to take anything away from Germany, they are one of the best teams in the world. But Ronaldo's teammates helped take him out of the game. Early on there were times where he was open with 1v1 opportunities, and they didn't give him the ball. They definitely have chemistry issues. If we can score first (and preferably in the first half) they may implode again. The pressure is on them to win, not us.

Are there ways to disrupt communication on a soccer field? How do players signal each other about "making runs" and stuff like that?

 

[BlueMAB]

Are there ways to disrupt communication on a soccer field? How do players signal each other about "making runs" and stuff like that?

Just the crowd noise.

When I played most of the communication was about defensive assignments. On offense, you don't want to tell the defense what you're doing, like any other sport. You hope to have the experience and vision as a team to know where the space is, where the runs can and should be made (also based on your game-plan) and have the ball be passed appropriately. Beasley isn't going to signal to Bradley he's about to make a run, he just does it. Then it's up to the back line and midfield to rotate appropriately to cover on a turnover.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Along the way here some people have talked about youth coaching info - I found this while looking up some stuff on soccer game plans and strategy. This should be helpful to anyone that's involved in youth coaching soccer.

http://resources.ussoccer.com/n7v8b... Training U.S. Soccer Coaching Curriculum.pdf

 

[Carl Spackler]

Just the crowd noise.

When I played most of the communication was about defensive assignments. On offense, you don't want to tell the defense what you're doing, like any other sport. You hope to have the experience and vision as a team to know where the space is, where the runs can and should be made (also based on your game-plan) and have the ball be passed appropriately. Beasley isn't going to signal to Bradley he's about to make a run, he just does it. Then it's up to the back line and midfield to rotate appropriately to cover on a turnover.

Interesting - I was looking up some info on game planning and stuff, and it's hard to get away from my mindset of a start/stop and line of scrimmage. It doesn't exit in soccer - obviously, but it's how I think when I look at the game. How a team trains, it seems, is what's going to dictate what structure to any organized play happens. edit - where in football, you have the line of scrimmage and design set plays, and train for the specfics of each individual play. Game planning in soccer is going to involve setting up specifically designed practice sessions by what I can tell, rather than a systematic, and structured set of plays - and then decision making where the ball is going on offense in the game, is all on the fly individually by which player at the specific moment has the ball when in possession - right? Soccer offense - for an individual is essentially the combination of physical skill when in possession of the ball and decision making, and decision making when another player on your team has possession of the ball - need to train for both scenarios.

One more question - are there structured "plays" in soccer when attacking/on offense? It seems to me that there are - when you see the ball played long distances - it's usually either intended for the ball to go to a player, or to a space, where a player is supposed to fill. Is all of that happening on the fly?

Very important to have a good coach that knows how to train for specific scenarios!

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Did anyone see that Cahill goal? Holy sh--

Good volley for Cahill's goal, but a foolish play for a 2nd yellow card and automatic disqualification for the Socceroos' 3rd game.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Least likable player / personality in the World Cup? 2 gimmes in Ronaldo and Neymar, but others ... ?

 

[Carl Spackler]

Least likable player / personality in the World Cup? 2 gimmes in Ronaldo and Neymar, but others ... ?

When of the more entertaining things for me, just because I'm little odd that way, is that Brazil has a player who's name is Fred. That's it. Fred. As for least likeable player for me so far in what I've seen, I don't really have one. Probably the guy that got red-carded from Portugal. That was just stupid, and close behind that is the guy from Germany that was pretending he had a broken jaw that goaded him to the red-card.