OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread | Page 28 | The Boneyard

OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

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First of all... I AM SO HAPPY we won. When you're winning in the World Cup, scoring points then watching is so much better. The pressure is off and I can really enjoy watching the other games. Just like when our football team is winning, it just makes taking in the whole sport that much more palatable.

Here are my thoughts. I can't tell you how many times I have seen the USMNT dominate play and LOSE. Winning 2-1 against our Nemesis is huge regardless of the ethereal style points. Both US goals were beatiful by the way.

Look, this team played balls out in qualifying. It's not a top 5 team in the world by any stretch of the imagination. But it is a good side that can find many ways to win. If they are doing what they can do, then I am pretty confident that this is going to be a fun World Cup.

What am I worried about? While losing Jozy may seem killer, we have weapons. What worries me is conditioning. We had too many dudes dinged up from the conditions last night. I am worried that we missed the boat somewhere....

USA players weren't the only ones with these problems. Both Germany and Portugal had players go down with the same kind of physical problems earlier in the day, in a whole different city. The Ghana team had some players with problems too. Altidore's was hopefully not as severe as it looked. The heat and humidity and the amount of running those players need to do is phenomenal stress on the body. COnditioning isn't going to show up on day one, all that happened yesterday was proof that the conditions are extremely difficult. Conditioning will show up next week, and the week after and as long as it goes.
 
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But they really seem like a bunch of candy-asses with a good deal of quit in them.
Agree 100%. But that isn't relevant to my point. Substitute another team for Portugal if you wish
 
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Your focus on physicality is making you lose sight of what's most important in soccer, talent.

Guys like Ronaldo can use their size and speed to over match defenders, yes. Zlatan is another example, physical gifts play a role.

But guys like Maradona, Pele, Neymar, Iniesta, Messi. They use their skills and technique. When you have a team like Spain that can make pinpoint one touch passes to each other, you don't need to be bigger, faster, or stronger to make an opponent look foolish.

Footwork, technique, ball skills, all areas where Portugal outclasses the US, and all reasons we could lose to them despite the fact they don't have any huge physical advantage.

Individual talent cannot win games in a team sport where 11 individuals need to compete as a unit. This is football 101.
 
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USA players weren't the only ones with these problems. Both Germany and Portugal had players go down with the same kind of physical problems earlier in the day, in a whole different city. The Ghana team had some players with problems too. Altidore's was hopefully not as severe as it looked. The heat and humidity and the amount of running those players need to do is phenomenal stress on the body. COnditioning isn't going to show up on day one, all that happened yesterday was proof that the conditions are extremely difficult. Conditioning will show up next week, and the week after and as long as it goes.

Thanks for your non expert, expert analysis.
 

meyers7

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Bedoya was also limping around for a bit. It was a rough game and Sunday's game will even be worse weatherwise.
I'm hoping that affects Portugal more than us, but I'm not sure.
 
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Change of tactics here in discussion, and then I'm out for awhile. Nice day.

I did a whole bunch of reading yesterday, and what I learned, confirmed what I learned a while back, is that soccer is very much like my oval football, just without any start or stops in ball movement, and a whole different meaning to what "stopping" the ball is. My football, the ball and man is connected and you need to knock them both to the ground to stop, in soccer you need to separate the man from the ball - to stop. In my football, separating the man from the ball, is a totally different thing, in stopping the advance.

Advancing the ball isn't that much different, other than nobody can pick it up and carry it around, other goalie in his designated area, and that when advancing the ball, there is a hell of lot more leeway in going backwards with the ball.

The actual strategy and tactics and play making / structure in soccer is where I get lost, but I'm learning.

I learned yesterday that soccer is much like football in that it is copycat - teams take what works for others and copy it. Spain, has won the last world cup, and the Euro, and basically developed a style of play that reminded me of the old New Jersey Devils a long time ago. They won championships, but it was a ticky tacky (those are the actual words used) method where they passed the ball all over the place with accuracy - and don't really understand much more after that. It worked and it won, and people didn't like it much, but they copied it.

Now - the Germans, yesterday won a world cup game 4-0 without playing a true goal scorer forward. I read that - they played a style of play and strategy and tactics that had something to do with luring an opposing team into thinking they are defending well against the sideline and then springing a long attack with an overhead pass across the field. It apparently works well, against the style of play that had developed in the world in the past several years around what Spain was doing.

My point in writing all of this - is that when Klinsmann talked about expectations, I believe he was talking about this kind of thing. A country like Germany, and probably Brazil, and others, approach a tournament like this world cup - with a strategy and tactics and method of opposing their will on the others within the game that is designed to win the entire thing. They have the ability to do that.

THe USA - we simply can't do that - develop an entire strategy and tactics irrespective of opponents we face, with the goal to win the whole tournament.

We need to take our strategy and tactics game planning - and I guarantee that game planning is HUGE in soccer, maybe more so than American football because the game play never stops, and we need to be doing it on a game by game basis, and I believe we have the talent level, and physical ability, throughout the roster to find ways to match up with anybody on our schedule. The fact that we were able to win, without any significant contribution from Michael Bradley - reinforces that for me.

Enjoy the afternoon everyone!!
 
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Change of tactics here in discussion, and then I'm out for awhile. Nice day.

I did a whole bunch of reading yesterday, and what I learned, confirmed what I learned a while back, is that soccer is very much like my oval football, just without any start or stops in ball movement, and a whole different meaning to what "stopping" the ball is. My football, the ball and man is connected and you need to knock them both to the ground to stop, in soccer you need to separate the man from the ball - to stop. In my football, separating the man from the ball, is a totally different thing, in stopping the advance.

Advancing the ball isn't that much different, other than nobody can pick it up and carry it around, other goalie in his designated area, and that when advancing the ball, there is a hell of lot more leeway in going backwards with the ball.

The actual strategy and tactics and play making / structure in soccer is where I get lost, but I'm learning.

I learned yesterday that soccer is much like football in that it is copycat - teams take what works for others and copy it. Spain, has won the last world cup, and the Euro, and basically developed a style of play that reminded me of the old New Jersey Devils a long time ago. They won championships, but it was a ticky tacky (those are the actual words used) method where they passed the ball all over the place with accuracy - and don't really understand much more after that. It worked and it won, and people didn't like it much, but they copied it.

Now - the Germans, yesterday won a world cup game 4-0 without playing a true goal scorer forward. I read that - they played a style of play and strategy and tactics that had something to do with luring an opposing team into thinking they are defending well against the sideline and then springing a long attack with an overhead pass across the field. It apparently works well, against the style of play that had developed in the world in the past several years around what Spain was doing.

My point in writing all of this - is that when Klinsmann talked about expectations, I believe he was talking about this kind of thing. A country like Germany, and probably Brazil, and others, approach a tournament like this world cup - with a strategy and tactics and method of opposing their will on the others within the game that is designed to win the entire thing. They have the ability to do that.

THe USA - we simply can't do that - develop an entire strategy and tactics irrespective of opponents we face, with the goal to win the whole tournament.

We need to take our strategy and tactics game planning - and I guarantee that game planning is HUGE in soccer, maybe more so than American football because the game play never stops, and we need to be doing it on a game by game basis, and I believe we have the talent level, and physical ability, throughout the roster to find ways to match up with anybody on our schedule. The fact that we were able to win, without any significant contribution from Michael Bradley - reinforces that for me.

Enjoy the afternoon everyone!!

I also did some research. I found that math is not any different than reading. My math involves numbers, and reading involves words. Other than that, they are the same.
 

meyers7

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I'm beginning to think that soccer players need to be the most well conditioned athletes in the world at the elite level. To get to PK's would take 120 minutes + whatever extra time they tack on.
Pretty much. Not only speed running, but stamina running (avg team distances is about 8-10K for a game). Along with leaping abilities (timing on those leaping abilities in order to head the ball), plus the technical skills to dibble, receive, pass and shoot (with your feet, which is probably harder than with your hands although you do have a pretty big target to shoot at) and then tactical acumen. Easy game to play, harder to master.
 

meyers7

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Klinsmann is a realist. If it is in our best interest to to play for a draw, then he will play the team for a draw. Maybe you should just observe the World Cup, since it is your first and refrain from providing us expert commentary.
Ah it's ok. We don't want to run off new fans. He'll learn and understand if he watches more.
 
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Admittedly, I don't watch the USMNT too often but I enjoy watching the WC. After watching our team for 90 minutes, I'm happy about the win but is it me or do we just lack ball skills and speed? Ghana dominated most of the match, creating opportunities throughout. Jones is a nice player - he seemed to get stronger as the game wore on. Gutty win, hoping we can pull a rabbit out of the hat against Portugal.

Ball skills yes, speed not so much.
 

meyers7

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Individual talent cannot win games in a team sport where 11 individuals need to compete as a unit. This is football 101.
Actually, that is absolutely wrong. Lots of football matches are won on moments of individual brilliance (talent). See Maradona vs England '86, and Bergkamp vs Argentina '98 for examples.
 
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Individual talent cannot win games in a team sport where 11 individuals need to compete as a unit. This is AMERICAN football 101.

FIFY.

Here's 6 minutes of one guy making 2, 3, 4, 5+ defenders miss and finishing on his own. This isn't 11 players working together, it's one working his magic.

 
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FIFY.

Here's 6 minutes of one guy making 2, 3, 4, 5+ defenders miss and finishing on his own. This isn't 11 players working together, it's one working his magic.



I mean, okay, sure, there's like 2-3 guys in the world who can do that. For everyone else, you'll probably have to work as a team. :cool: Not like Messi is carrying Argentina single handedly either. Even with all that talent they're gonna have to play some defense at some point.
 
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I mean, okay, sure, there's like 2-3 guys in the world who can do that. For everyone else, you'll probably have to work as a team. :cool: Not like Messi is carrying Argentina single handedly either. Even with all that talent they're gonna have to play some defense at some point.

Yes, everyone has to play defense, but we're playing one of those guys Sunday. Carl's point is that you cannot win if you don't play as a team. It's easier, obviously, but Soccer is distinctly different than American football where you literally cannot score (on offense) without your teammates.

Fortunately for us, Portugal plays like they don't want Ronaldo to touch the ball. Now if only we could stop passing the ball to the other team.
 
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Also, I really wish we'd hear some news about the injuries asap. I'm not optimistic about Jozy but man we could really use him.
 

meyers7

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Also, I really wish we'd hear some news about the injuries asap. I'm not optimistic about Jozy but man we could really use him.
I wonder if Klinsmann wishes he'd have brought Boyd now? If you are gonna play with a hold up guy, you probably need a back up.
 

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They don't play again until Sunday, so there is little incentive to make a quick decision but I suspect he'd done for the Tournament. More of a concern is the sheer number of guys who looked like they had hamstring/cramping issues. By my count, Besler, Dempsey, Cameron, Jones, Johnson, Beckerman all had issues with cramping or other aliments that had them stretching or otherwise limping around the field at different points last night.
 

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http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/17/usa-ghana-jozy-altidore-michael-bradley

But it’s the Johansson substitution that should throw a light back on Klinsmann’s decision-making on the roster, and take some of the lustre off his reputation.

Johannsson’s movement, running and willingness to shoot is a handy weapon to throw on towards the end of games to stretch tiring defences. But playing from near the start, at this level, he didn’t look like a player to tire Ghana out. Of the other dedicated strikers, Dempsey is better from deep and Chris Wondolowski is a poacher with an eye for goal rather than a man to hold up play.

This all represents a problem. There is no ready replacement for Altidore, given the way Klinsmann wants to play. Eddie Johnson may be in poor club form but he would at least give a decent option within that set up, and while there are reasonable arguments to be made for Landon Donovan’s exclusion, he too would have been a good person to turn to when you need to shuffle attacking players into workable alternatives.
 

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Mexico is buzzing here in the 2nd half too. Coming inches away from taking the lead. I'm really impressed because I thought Brazil would be laser focused in this one but it appears that they are content with sleepwalking their way through group play. Mexico is talented enough to possibly make them pay for that.
 

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Mexico goal keeper is keeping them in this game. Very impressive!
 

SubbaBub

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I predict a Brasil PK here in the next 7 minutes.
 

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Mexico goal keeper is keeping them in this game. Very impressive!

He's made some clutch saves. The one on the goal line on the 1st half header was probably his best.
 
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