OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[Mots010]

Dan, I don't know if you watched the game but I did. If you're basing your view on a still photo I can't help you. You should watch the video. What he did to the goalie is a foul. There is no question. Again, barring bad calls and freak plays, that game is probably 2-0 Brazil, 1-0 at worst.

You can't just discount goals like that. I'd say Brazil's two goals in the run of play were awful plays by the keeper. The fact is, the game was tied 1-1 and Croatia was controlling the play in the 2nd half, then Brazil was handed a garbage penalty kick. Croatia is then forced to press, and Brazil gets a counter with the open field. Even then, the keeper gets beat on the near side with a tumbling toe poke, another ball a good keeper probably cuts off.

 

[housekeys]

Wrong. The penalty should have been a no-call, but ultimately Brazil was gonna win that game.

Actually, with the benefit of replay, the no-call should have been a yellow card for diving. I also though that Olic did jump into the goalkeeper, so no problem with that call. Oscar played super. Croatia deserved better. Brazil better hope this is their version of the St Joe's game.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

It's an advantage for the US as they regularly play on worse fields in the Caribbean. Jamaica and Trinidad coke immediately to mind. Playing in Europe, I doubt Portugal has done the same.

Panama in a tropical storm. Stuff like that made that win over Costa Rica in the snow in Denver so much sweeter.

 

[RioDog]

Actually, with the benefit of replay, the no-call should have been a yellow card for diving. I also though that Olic did jump into the goalkeeper, so no problem with that call. Oscar played super. Croatia deserved better. Brazil better hope this is their version of the St Joe's game.

Possibly. Again, the guy grabbed Fred's arm so I say no-call. But there's no replay in soccer. Actually I wish flops would be called in soccer. Its a hideous aspect of the game- just ridiculous. Brazil played pretty well on defense and Julio Cesar is an excellent keeper. I was disappointed in Fred's play, but I think Croatia's defensive scheme was effective. They're a tough draw as a first match for anybody. I think you'll see offensive fireworks from the selecao going forward.

 

[UConnDan97]

Dan, I don't know if you watched the game but I did. If you're basing your view on a still photo I can't help you. You should watch the video. What he did to the goalie is a foul. There is no question. Again, barring bad calls and freak plays, that game is probably 2-0 Brazil, 1-0 at worst.

I watched the entire game, and I had the extra ability due to DVR to rewind every play. There is absolutely no foul on the goalie. Ian Darke said as much. His hands were NOT involved, as you can clearly see by the still-shot. I'm not even Croatian...I just hate to watch a team work hard for 4 years, only to have those types of things happen. It ruins the game. Plays like those really do require some form of instant replay, since every goal is so crucial...

 

[BlueMAB]

The PK was a horrendous call.

Keepers nearly always get the whistle on contact. Right or wrong, I think everyone posting in this thread can admit that. Keepers are like jump shooters and quarterbacks, the refs are trained to protect them. Too much contact with the Keeper for the ref not to blow the whistle. You simply can't look at that play as if he was challenging any defender. Against the keeper, that's a foul, every time.

If Tim Howard was in goal for Croatia, they probably escape with a draw 1-1, maybe even a 1-0 win (no telling what Howard would have done on that PK, but I'd give Neymar that goal).

 

[meyers7]

So the question really is whether or not we have the talent and skill to compete with the level of competition on our schedule - yes?

(BTW: That's hardly unique to soccer as a sport, world cup or little league, or any other sport - that's always the question you have to ask if you want to have a chance at success - whatever, .)

I listened and watched to Klinsmann talk on ESPN the other day, as well as the players, and they told me that they have the ability to compete - and beat - the competition on the schedule and watched more soccer in the past few weeks and over the past year really, than ever, and I don't doubt them.

So to me, it's a matter of going out and winning, and I don't see any difference with any other country that is in this tournament.

I'm reminded of something a Dukie told me about Coach Krsygstan a long time ago. When preparing for the tournament, long long ago before any of his championship success - Coach K, put up a full bracket on the overhead projector - yeah one of those old things. Then he said you can't win this in one game. Then he progressively reduced the bracket on the overhead, making the same statement, until he got down just to Duke's first round matchup - and then he said to the team, we need to win this game, to advance. This game is all that matters. He's done essentially the same thing, every year since. True story.

Essentially, what Klinsmann has done with the USA soccer program in preparing for this world cup tournament, is the same thing. It got misinterpreted in the media - saying that winning the whole thing is not realistic - it's not realistic right now, just as winnign the entire NCAA championship is not realistic for Kryzewski at the first round of every tournmanet.

It's expectations that Klinsmann was talking about. Realistically, The USA is not at the point where it should be expected that they win the World Cup. Germany, Brazil, Italy, Argentina, etc....these are programs were expectations are such.

I think it's very realistic though, that we can beat Ghana, and that we can beat the others when we match up with them.

I'm getting myself really excited for a soccer game

Holy sh----t do we need winning football at UCONN again. LOL

I was just gonna talk about basketball, NCAA tourney in relation to this. At least we are on the same page. A 11/12/13 seed might pull off an upset or two, but they are not gonna run the table. Not gonna happen, never has. Same thing with the USA, we might pull off an upset of Portugal or Germany (I'm still 100% sure we are not taking 9 points out of the group), but then we have to beat a Russia, France, Brazil, Argentina (for example) in succession. Cards pile up, we'll lose a couple starters. It's just not gonna happen.

I'm hoping we get out of the group. That would be a fantastic (pretty much best ever) result for us.

 

[meyers7]

Pretty sloppy game to start off the WC. Poor referee (critical mistake, probably won't see him again), really poor goalkeeping. Croatia had them on the ropes to start with but couldn't put Brazil away.

But glad it's underway and am looking forward to 3 games today.

 

[spsct]

No penalty kick.
Correct disallowing goal.
Third goal is garbage.

Brazil may have won, but a draw wouldn't have been a surprise until the PK.

This.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Pretty sloppy game to start off the WC. Poor referee (critical mistake, probably won't see him again), really poor goalkeeping. Croatia had them on the ropes to start with but couldn't put Brazil away.

But glad it's underway and am looking forward to 3 games today.

Same here; but I am fearful for the US against Portugal as Cristiano generates a lot of money for FIFA and while he maybe one of the best players in the world, he flops a lot. I can easily see him getting a PK or two against the US.

As for the fist game. Croatia's keeper was not good. The PK was absolute garbage. If FIFA wanted to prevent diving, Fred would earn a post-game Yellow which could really hurt him the rest of the way. The disallowed Croatian goal was a borderline foul; but, protecting the keeper is almost universal so I OK with that call. Neymar and Brazil were very lucky the ref had no backbone as it is debatable that he should have been given a straight red considering he looked where to throw his arm first. On Brazil's final goal, I did not see a replay; but, I swore I saw a foul by Brazil that lead to the break. Oscar was the best player o the pitch.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Same here; but I am fearful for the US against Portugal as Cristiano generates a lot of money for FIFA and while he maybe one of the best players in the world, he flops a lot. I can easily see him getting a PK or two against the US.

As for the fist game. Croatia's keeper was not good. The PK was absolute garbage. If FIFA wanted to prevent diving, Fred would earn a post-game Yellow which could really hurt him the rest of the way. The disallowed Croatian goal was a borderline foul; but, protecting the keeper is almost universal so I can see the call. Neymar and Brazil were very lucky the ref had no backbone as it is debatable that he should have been given a straight red considering he looked where to throw his arm first. On Brazil's final goal, I did not see a replay; but, I swore I saw a foul by Brazil that lead to the break. Oscar was the best player o the pitch.

Ah, found a copy of Brazil's 3rd goal on the attached file, it's at the 3:20 mark. Definitely a foul. Brail should have at best tied this game if not lost. Should FIFA just give Brazil the trophy now?

 

[SubbaBub]

I was just gonna talk about basketball, NCAA tourney in relation to this. At least we are on the same page. A 11/12/13 seed might pull off an upset or two, but they are not gonna run the table. Not gonna happen, never has. Same thing with the USA, we might pull off an upset of Portugal or Germany (I'm still 100% sure we are not taking 9 points out of the group), but then we have to beat a Russia, France, Brazil, Argentina (for example) in succession. Cards pile up, we'll lose a couple starters. It's just not gonna happen.

I'm hoping we get out of the group. That would be a fantastic (pretty much best ever) result for us.

US is about the15th best side in this tournament, about an 8/9 seed in NCAA speak. It would be a shock to win the cup or make the final, but it's not impossible.

I think there are 4 squads that can reasonably expect to win the whole thing, Brazil, Spain, Argentina, and Germany. The others are hoping to make a run to the semis and see what happens.

 

[meyers7]

Same here; but I am fearful for the US against Portugal as Cristiano generates a lot of money for FIFA and while he maybe one of the best players in the world, he flops a lot. I can easily see him getting a PK or two against the US.

I'm not really a FIFA hates USA theorist. We generate a lot of money too here in the US. (Broadcast rights, Coke, Nike, etc.) And the refs sure don't want to mess up, they are done if they do. Heck the guy gave Neymar a YC. The ref messed up, but I don't think there was anything cheating about it. Hell, he probably just screwed his career over.

But yea, Ronaldo does draw fouls/penalties, the USA is going to have to be careful there.

As for the fist game. Croatia's keeper was not good. The PK was absolute garbage. If FIFA wanted to prevent diving, Fred would earn a post-game Yellow which could really hurt him the rest of the way. The disallowed Croatian goal was a borderline foul; but, protecting the keeper is almost universal so I can see the call. Neymar and Brazil were very lucky the ref had no backbone as it is debatable that he should have been given a straight red considering he looked where to throw his arm first. On Brazil's final goal, I did not see a replay; but, I swore I saw a foul by Brazil that lead to the break. Oscar was the best player o the pitch.

Yea, some of the talking heads were talking about the "foul" that led to the 3rd goal. Although I think that the goalkeeping was pretty poor anyway. Looked like a foul to me though.

 

[Jimdish255]

Ah, found a copy of Brazil's 3rd goal on the attached file, it's at the 3:20 mark. Definitely a foul. Brail should have at best tied this game if not lost. Should FIFA just give Brazil the trophy now?

Dive, 50/50 ball, and a brutal takedown on the 3rd goal transition. Really put a big cloud over day 1 that didn't need to happen. Croatia deserved at least a tie for their effort and Brazil need to sharpen their play and their effort dramatically.

FWIW is there any team in Group C that would beat any team in our group?

 

[meyers7]

US is about the15th best side in this tournament, about an 8/9 seed in NCAA speak. It would be a shock to win the cup or make the final, but it's not impossible.

Eh, I think we are a little lower because of the group we are in. Overall maybe, but that is offset by the group we are in. We're 4th seed there.

I think there are 4 squads that can reasonably expect to win the whole thing, Brazil, Spain, Argentina, and Germany. The others are hoping to make a run to the semis and see what happens.

Agree. I think I have those 4 as the semi-finalists.

 

[meyers7]

FWIW is there any team in Group C that would beat any team in our group?

Sure, we could lose to any of those teams, Ghana probably could too. Greece could draw any team in our group. Ivory Coast can be good. They have plenty of firepower (Drogba, Gervinho, both Toure's, Tiote, Bony, Kalou could probably all start for the USA, at least make the 23). Colombia with Falcao are tough, but without him, eh probably not so tough, but still good. Japan is always a tough out, because like the USA they work really hard. And they have technical abilities the USA doesn't process.

But yea, I'd much rather trade places with any of the teams in Group C.

 

[SAMCRO]

Sure, we could lose to any of those teams, Ghana probably could too. Greece could draw any team in our group. Ivory Coast can be good. They have plenty of firepower (Drogba, Gervinho, both Toure's, Tiote, Bony, Kalou could probably all start for the USA, at least make the 23). Colombia with Falcao are tough, but without him, eh probably not so tough, but still good. Japan is always a tough out, because like the USA they work really hard. And they have technical abilities the USA doesn't process.

But yea, I'd much rather trade places with any of the teams in Group C.

Agreed, I'd trade places with Japan in a heartbeat for group C. Given the choice though, I'd swap places with Iran in Group F (Argentina, Bosnia, Nigeria... Bosnia is not an easy out, but I'd take my chances playing against the combo of Bosnia/Nigeria over Portugal/Ghana any day). Argentina and Germany are a wash (slight edge to Argentina in South America)

 

[DarthGrumpy]

US is about the15th best side in this tournament, about an 8/9 seed in NCAA speak. It would be a shock to win the cup or make the final, but it's not impossible.

I think there are 4 squads that can reasonably expect to win the whole thing, Brazil, Spain, Argentina, and Germany. The others are hoping to make a run to the semis and see what happens.

England is just hoping to not hear the words 'penalty kick shoot out'.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I'm not really a FIFA hates USA theorist. We generate a lot of money too here in the US. (Broadcast rights, Coke, Nike, etc.) And the refs sure don't want to mess up, they are done if they do. Heck the guy gave Neymar a YC. The ref messed up, but I don't think there was anything cheating about it. Hell, he probably just screwed his career over.

But yea, Ronaldo does draw fouls/penalties, the USA is going to have to be careful there.


Yea, some of the talking heads were talking about the "foul" that led to the 3rd goal. Although I think that the goalkeeping was pretty poor anyway. Looked like a foul to me though.

Agreed that Croatia's keeper was poor. As for Brazil, unofficially or officially, FIFA knows that Brazil will burn to the ground if their team falls (I think Chile in the round of 16 would be a nightmare game for them). Plus, with the press all over Brazil for the poor preparations and now the Qatar bribe investigation and rumors of the 2022 Cup going to the US, FIFA will want to bury all of it's problems under 190 million happy, screaming, semi-naked Brazilians should they win the Cup.

Plus, it's Latin America, if a ref makes a hard call against Brazil, right or wrong, what are his chances of leaving Brazil alive?

 

[meyers7]

Agreed that Croatia's keeper was poor. As for Brazil, unofficially or officially, FIFA knows that Brazil will burn to the ground if their team falls (I think Chile in the round of 16 would be a nightmare game for them). Plus, with the press all over Brazil for the poor preparations and now the Qatar bribe investigation and rumors of the 2022 Cup going to the US, FIFA will want to bury all of it's problems under 190 million happy, screaming, semi-naked Brazilians should they win the Cup.

Plus, it's Latin America, if a ref makes a hard call against Brazil, right or wrong, what are his chances of leaving Brazil alive?

True, but it wouldn't really have been a hard call not to have called the PK. Very, very few people would have complained about NOT getting that call.

 

[whaler11]

Took Cameroon at +286 today. Not impressed by Mexico at all.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I find it hard to believe that an organization like FIFA would be out against the USA - by what I've read, the 1994 World Cup in the USA is still to date the most watched, attended and money making ever. The fact that we didn't get it again, and the crap I read about Qatar recently getting the tournament over the USA in coming years, tells me that there are organizations and personalities that exist under the FIFA umbrella that have issues against the USA, but I find it hard to believe the organization at the top would have a problem.

As far as the actual games, I remarked on this before, I had no idea how much officiating can play a part in the outcome of these games. It's incredible, that official yesterday, very quickly, swung the entire game for Brazil, when it seemed to me, that the outcome was still very much in question as the game progressed - you'd think he was worried about his personal safety in the country of Brazil or something.

FWIW - it's just me personally, but I would have no problem with our USA national team, making sure that every penalty that is actually called - is a penalty, and not a flop by other team. That guy in the penalty box yesterday, kicked his legs out and fell down very dramatically, when the Croatia player simply touched his shoulders with his hands.

I'd rather have built the reputation, that if you feel a hand on your shoulder from a USA player, you better stay on your feet and get the heck out of there, or the hammer is coming, rather than fall down, pretending like you just got shot dead.

 

[whaler11]

I find it hard to believe that an organization like FIFA would be out against the USA - by what I've read, the 1994 World Cup in the USA is still to date the most watched, attended and money making ever. The fact that we didn't get it again, and the crap I read about Qatar recently getting the tournament over the USA in coming years, tells me that there are organizations and personalities that exist under the FIFA umbrella that have issues against the USA, but I find it hard to believe the organization at the top would have a problem.

As far as the actual games, I remarked on this before, I had no idea how much officiating can play a part in the outcome of these games. It's incredible, that official yesterday, very quickly, swung the entire game for Brazil, when it seemed to me, that the outcome was still very much in question as the game progressed - you'd think he was worried about his personal safety in the country of Brazil or something.

FWIW - it's just me personally, but I would have no problem with our USA national team, making sure that every penalty that is actually called - is a penalty, and not a flop by other team. That guy in the penalty box yesterday, kicked his legs out and fell down very dramatically, when the Croatia player simply touched his shoulders with his hands.

I'd rather have built the reputation, that if you feel a hand on your shoulder from a USA player, you better stay on your feet and get the heck out of there, or the hammer is coming, rather than fall down, pretending like you just got shot dead.

The problem is the US reps didn't bribe like Qatar. It's no more complicated than that.

So your strategy to combat flopping is to commit more penalties. Makes sense.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Possibly. Again, the guy grabbed Fred's arm so I say no-call. But there's no replay in soccer. Actually I wish flops would be called in soccer. Its a hideous aspect of the game- just ridiculous. Brazil played pretty well on defense and Julio Cesar is an excellent keeper. I was disappointed in Fred's play, but I think Croatia's defensive scheme was effective. They're a tough draw as a first match for anybody. I think you'll see offensive fireworks from the selecao going forward.

Fred was touched on the left shoulder and went down like Dirty Harry got him with his magnum. Was watching in an airport lounge in Minneapolis and a couple dudes said words to the affect of not being able to take the sport seriously because of that crap.

Why doesn't FIFA (perhaps they do and I just dont know) issue yellow/red cards after the game for floppers...especially in tournaments when yellows are accumulative? Perhaps Fred doesn't do that if he knows there is a chance he gets booted from next game.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The problem is the US reps didn't bribe like Qatar. It's no more complicated than that.

So your strategy to combat flopping is to commit more penalties. Makes sense.

Whaler - you really embrace the stick in the mud routine huh? LOL. Whatever - enjoy life dude.

Somebody was writing about FIFA having something against the USA - that just doesn't make sense - for exactly the reasons you state - money. FIFA stands to make a whole bunch of money by supporting USA soccer. If there is a bias against the USA - and I'm not saying there isn't, I would think it's going to be at a lower level of the structure.

I'm not sure why something like replay can't be incorporated into soccer, but I gather that the governing bodies have been adamant against it for a long time. Without replay, yes - indeed, the only way I can see combatting the pussiness of the flopping I see, is to actually hammer players and play very physical when you're going for a challenge and making contact. Make the refs have something real to call. Make opposing players realize that the USA is going to be a physical team, and you know what, the officials will eventually look more at the USA players to determine a foul, rather than players falling down. It happens in any sport where this kind of thing is part of the game - basketball particularly. It's easier to tell if person is faking falling down, by the body language of the person that "hit" them, rather than the guy falling. I'm not advocating committing penalties on purpose - you stick in the mud.