OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

[SAMCRO]

Would loved to have won 2022, but want no part of any decision to move it from Qatar to the US. The politics of world football is not what the US needs right now. To the developing world and the middle east it will play as us stealing it from them.

It was a corrupt decision and it shouldn't be played there, but let Europe deal with it. I'd be happy to spend the summer of 2022 in Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg or in England, which is where it would be.

Bring it back to the US, b/c if it's not 2022, the next viable year would be 2030 (since 2026 is most likely in Europe).

 

[Waquoit]

Bring it back to the US, b/c if it's not 2022, the next viable year would be 2030 (since 2026 is most likely in Europe).

I agree. I'll be too ' old to enjoy it in person in 2030.

 

[rich1122]

If they didn't before, I'm betting Ghana has the US's attention after dismantling S. Korea 4-0 tonight, w/ an early injury sub netting a hat trick.

Korea is ranked almost 60 in the world. I think more than 15 spots below Nigeria and almost 20 spots below Turkey. If we lose bad to Ghana I will be very surprised. Actually I will be very surprised if we don't dominate Ghana like we dominated Nigeria.

 

[SAMCRO]

Korea is ranked almost 60 in the world. I think more than 15 spots below Nigeria and almost 20 spots below Turkey. If we lose bad to Ghana I will be very surprised. Actually I will be very surprised if we don't dominate Ghana like we dominated Nigeria.

I believe we beat Ghana as well (not sure we dominate them, actually believe it will be a dog fight), but I think their attaining a big result (4-0 win) over the same Korea team the US beat 2-0 in a home friendly a few months ago is a great thing in terms of ensuring everyone is 100% focused (I'm not implying the US was looking past Ghana, especially given our recent record v them). JK will be using that result as just one more tool to keep everybody sharp and on point.

 

[meyers7]

I believe we beat Ghana as well (not sure we dominate them, actually believe it will be a dog fight), but I think their attaining a big result (4-0 win) over the same Korea team the US beat 2-0 in a home friendly a few months ago is a great thing in terms of ensuring everyone is 100% focused (I'm not implying the US was looking past Ghana, especially given our recent record v them). JK will be using that result as just one more tool to keep everybody sharp and on point.

Yea, no way anyone is looking past Ghana. This is basically a win or go home game for the USA.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I watched some of the ESPN series on the USA program last night. The interview with Klinsmann struck me well - very well spoken. He was talking about how cultural soccer as a sport is - regional in nature. In sports like my football, patterns in how the game is played reflects physical environment really, more than culture, but to a certain respect, cultural aspects also play in - the two are very much intertwined. There are social and cultural reasons - as well as climate/environment - why Sid Gillman's offense developed in southern California, rather than the triple option offense that was created and perfected in the northeast and eastern states. for example.

Klinsmann talked about how in soccer, the way the sport is actually played by a country's national team, should reflect the attitude and culture of the entire country. The USA is a huge place, and a proverbial melting pot of different cultures - and in that respect - the entire 23 man roster reflects that - we got players from everywhere and all kinds of backgrounds.

But it's more than that, as I understood it. It's how the game is actually played by different countries. I believe that is true around the world in the sport. THe game itself reflects the ideals of the nation. I agree and believe in what Klinsmann's attitude and understanding of American culture is. it's to win. To be first. To be #1. How that translated to soccer for him, is to attack, to go get it, to push yourself and go as fast as possible, SPEED, and enforce your will on others. It's the same general attitude as Vince Lombardi's attitude stated decades ago. It's my understanding that in the past, the USA national soccer program did not play as Klinsmann has developed it now - and reflected the style of play that exists in other national team programs where defense was paramount, and reacting, and defending, "staying back on the pitch"? That seems contradictory to the premise that a national team soccer program should reflect the ideals of the nation itself.

That's not the American way, to sit back and defend. It's to go get it - be #1. SPEED - moving FAST. That's what struck me the most - in America he said, everything moves extremely fast. Soccer should also be played fast.

"It is an has always been and American zeal to be the first in anything we do, and to win, and to win and to win." - vince Lombardi, from "what it takes to be #1"

It was interesting to listen to some of the dual-citizenship players, talk about how the American attitude now exists in the program. It was interesting to listen to some American full blood players talk about believing that they can compete and beat anyone - let's go take them on. Line them up, whoever they are - we'll go beat them. That is the American attitude. That's the attitude that Jim Calhoun built the UCONN basketball program on.

You obviously got to have the ability to back it up, and that's what I really liked most about Klinsmann attitude and what he's installed in the program. He said something to the effect: paraphrasing "I've made a lot of decisions in the past few weeks, and we will now find out in the next few weeks if I made the right decisions. I will be responsible for the outcome. It's my job." The guy has cajones, and is the example of what a leader should be in the athletic / business world. The players, it seems, have the ability to compete. They have the opportunity now, to do it, on a stage and format and environment that is undeniably the greatest. What more could you want as a competitor?

I think the U.S. is going to make some big waves in Brazil, and I think that the U.S.A. national soccer program, being built in the way he described, has the potential to really take off.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You know as I think about it, I think what really struck me the most about listening to the coach and players for the USA team talk, and what I like most about what is happening with USA soccer, is that it is the complete anti-thesis to the ongoing pussification of American society. Klinsmann has fully and entirely embraced the concept that winning is important, that American's want to be #1 as a society.

Who would have thought that soccer might be the sport and cultural environement to embody that side of the social battle? Not me.

 

[SubbaBub]

Historically the US has been at a huge disadvantage skill wise so, the defend and counter was by necessity garnished with the natural athleticism and fitness bred into the American culture.

So, in that way JR isn't inventing something entirely new. What he has done is taken the elevated skill of this generation and make it more predatory.

The counter is still important but it's no longer a sit back and wait style. It's pressing and direct attacks forward where in the past it was 10 men behind the ball, booming goal kicks, and simple get wide and cross play, hoping to win by connecting on a corner kick and superior goal keeping.

 

[Waquoit]

Historically the US has been at a huge disadvantage skill wise so, the defend and counter was by necessity garnished with the natural athleticism and fitness bred into the American culture.

I agree, there was a limit to how far the USA could go with that approach. Clowns like Lalas don't agree. I get the feeling he is rooting for Klinsmann to fail.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I agree, there was a limit to how far the USA could go with that approach. Clowns like Lalas don't agree. I get the feeling he is rooting for Klinsmann to fail.

Lalas is greek heritage no? My understanding is that Greece, is a country that plays soccer at pretty much the polar opposite of an attacking, offensive style.

I have not followed U.S. Soccer in any fashion to make an educated opinion about past attitudes, but I do remember Bradley speaking about U.S. Soccer at the last world cup, and I don't remember anything remotely resembling a team "identity" based on a national cultural attitude - the way that Klinsmann did. The thing that stood out the most to me was speed, and being fast. Stressing how everything moves at lightning speed in American society, and soccer should reflect that -and he's built a team that does that. When this team runs, they are fast. They transition from defense to offense and offense to defense again very, very quickly in comparision to other teams I have watched them play against.

 

[SAMCRO]

Game On! Got off the subway this morning, and in my 1/2 an Avenue and 2 block walk to the office saw multiple Brazil jerseys/t-shirts, and belive it or not 2 guys repping Croatia.
Prediction - Brazil 2-0.

 

[SubbaBub]

Monday can not arrive soon enough.

 

[meyers7]

Monday can not arrive soon enough.

We got plenty to keep us busy til then.
Brazil - Croatia (opening game)
Spain - Netherlands tomorrow
England - Italy on Saturday
Argentina - Bosnia on Sunday

Plus a bunch of other games (not as high profile though).

 

[Jimdish255]

Would be nice to beat Ghana and have them force a draw with one of the other two down the line. If Portugal can get out of the group they are my choice to get the furthest. Everybody needs to be careful about how the games are being called early. I'm also going on the theory that "Northern" European teams may have more trouble adjusting to conditions. That includes Germany but especially the Swiss. (Watch that theory flame out early.)

I like Argentina despite their age they have a guy like DiMaria who could benefit from Messi attention. Hope to see them vs Esp in semis and Port v Brazil on the other side. A South American dream semis matchup.

 

[SAMCRO]

Would be nice to beat Ghana and have them force a draw with one of the other two down the line. If Portugal can get out of the group they are my choice to get the furthest. Everybody needs to be careful about how the games are being called early. I'm also going on the theory that "Northern" European teams may have more trouble adjusting to conditions. That includes Germany but especially the Swiss. (Watch that theory flame out early.)

I like Argentina despite their age they have a guy like DiMaria who could benefit from Messi attention. Hope to see them vs Esp in semis and Port v Brazil on the other side. A South American dream semis matchup.

I'm with you JD, I'm predicting the Swiss to be the seeded team that doesn't make it out of their group. I think the N. European sides will start to wilt as the tourney progresses. I like that we get Ghana first and Germany last. The order of games could not have been better lined up as our opponants capital moves further from the equator with every game.

 

[Mots010]

The pitch in Manaus looks like a mess. Maybe all these CONCACAF away matches will finally pay off.

http://screamer.deadspin.com/three-days-out-the-world-cup-arena-in-manaus-is-a-disa-1589467690

 

[HuskyHawk]

You know as I think about it, I think what really struck me the most about listening to the coach and players for the USA team talk, and what I like most about what is happening with USA soccer, is that it is the complete anti-thesis to the ongoing pussification of American society. Klinsmann has fully and entirely embraced the concept that winning is important, that American's want to be #1 as a society.

Who would have thought that soccer might be the sport and cultural environement to embody that side of the social battle? Not me.

What is unsaid here is that the German team plays a similar style. Attack on offense, attack on defense. So it wasn't hard for Klinsmann to bring that style here. Both squads can also be a little physical. I agree it suits our squad better than the stay back, clog things up and hope you can flop well enough to score off of a free kick approach. Just boring ugly soccer. It can barely stand to watch the Italians play.

I think the U.S. has a 50-50 chance to get through. I doubt that we can beat or tier Germany, but I think Portugal could do something odd like beating Germany, losing to U.S. and tying Ghana. They are just so inconsistent.

 

[Jimdish255]

The pitch in Manaus looks like a mess. Maybe all these CONCACAF away matches will finally pay off.

http://screamer.deadspin.com/three-days-out-the-world-cup-arena-in-manaus-is-a-disa-1589467690

That field is worse than 90% of the HS football fields in CT and about equal to half the practice fields. Seems as though there are some interesting things to do and see there and with some attention and renovations could not a bad place to explore. But with a fairly remote location are people lining up to see games at this venue?

 

[meyers7]

I'm with you JD, I'm predicting the Swiss to be the seeded team that doesn't make it out of their group. I think the N. European sides will start to wilt as the tourney progresses. I like that we get Ghana first and Germany last. The order of games could not have been better lined up as our opponants capital moves further from the equator with every game.

Having to play in this group sucks, but the order may help us. IF we can beat Ghana, we are probably as good if not better, it's a matter of if we can actually beat them. Let Germany take care of Portugal. Getting Portugal in Manaus, hopefully they wilt some and we can pull off a draw. Germany takes care of Ghana and Ghana is done. That would leave Germany with 6, USA with 4 and Portugal with 1. Expect Portugal to beat Ghana (Ghana with nothing to play for and Portugal with all to play for) so they end up with 4. But Germany doesn't need anything more than a draw to win the group. They rest some players for the knock out stages and we pull off a draw with them. We get through with 5.

A miracle? Absolutely, but one of the only plausible ways I see it can play out to our benefit.

 

[SubbaBub]

My ideal results are
US over Ghana
Germany over Portugal

Germany over Ghana
US draws Portugal

That would make the standings after two matches:

Germany 6
US 4
Portugal 1
Ghana 0

If Ghana steals a point from either of the other two, we're through the group. Otherwise, we need to beat either Ger/Por, or get a point from Germany or go to goal differential.

I think an opening draw between Ger/Por is bad for US.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I have a feeling that going into the final pair of games that Germany will have 6 points, USA 4, and Ghana 0. The US will have a goal differential of +1, Portugal of -1. A loss to the US would likely make Germany the second seed from Group H and would thus have to face the top seed from Group H. That would likely be Belgium, which many have as a dark horse. Thus, they will work to beat the US in order to face the second seed from Group H instead - Russia (imagine those politics, Putin will go on a roid rage) or may be S Korea. Portugal will be playing a defeated Ghana team knowing that they can get to the Sweet 16 by burying Ghana, which they will. USA ends with 4 points and a 0 differential and Portugal advances with 4 points and a +3 differential. Considering the bracket, a solid performance by the US; but nevertheless disappointing. Of course, I won’t see any of the Sweet 16 games because Cristiano will wink for the cameras after diving for the 16th time against Ghana resulting in his 3 PK goal of the game and I throw my TV out the window.

In the final, I have Argentina over Germany. Big upset, Brazil wilts under pressure and falls to Chile in the Sweet 16. Rioting forces the final to me moved to the US.

Overall, we are doomed! USA, USA, USA!

 

[SubbaBub]

Forces appear to be aligning for the US to have a real shot at beating Portugal. The pitch, their match against Mexico, Ronaldo's not being 100%.

Limit mistakes, convert opportunities, and don't stub your toe in the first 20 minutes vs. Ghana.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I think the best way to advance is to score as many goals as possible and win the games. I'm reading about hopes for a tie? Yuck to that attitude.

I understand that USA soccer is not on the level of Brazil, Germany, Portugal, Ghana internationally - but look at this:

Since Jan 1, 2012, the USA soccer team is 32-7-7 W/L/T in international play. I understand there is a big difference between friendly soccer and competition soccer internationally, but even so, we've gotten wins in the past 2 years against teams and in places that we've never won before - Italy, Mexico, Germany.

Going back to 2010, we made it past the first stage of the World Cup.

We have a very tough schedule, and expectations need to be realistic.

We can't win the world cup, if we don't get out of the first stage, and getting out of the first stage, is not going to be easy as we have what all the "knowledgeable" people think is the toughest group in the tournament, and not because we're in it.

I think the best way to get out of the first stage, is to score as many goals as possible and win every game. I don't see any reason, why that can't be realistic, looking at the past few years. I think it's a problem, to look beyond one game at a time though. That's why Ghana has been the entire focus of the program from the top down in leadership for so long.

 

[meyers7]

I think the best way to get out of the first stage, is to score as many goals as possible and win every game. I don't see any reason, why that can't be realistic, looking at the past few years.

I agree that would be the "best" way, but also the most unrealistic way. I can say with 100% certainty we won't beat all 3 teams. I can say with about 85% certainty we won't win 2 games. I only give us about a 30% chance of getting out of the group at all.

We only won 1 game in the group stages when we got out of the group in 2002 and 2010. And those were much easier groups.

 

[Waquoit]

Forces appear to be aligning for the US to have a real shot at beating Portugal. The pitch, their match against Mexico, Ronaldo's not being 100%.

And the witch doctor.