OT: BC football to renew historic rivarly...with Holy Cross

[Yawkey Way]

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Second, I agree that a BC/HC football game may make some of the old time alumni in Boston excited; but, it will do nothing to expand and promote college football on the national football level for BC. We are not talking about ND/USC
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Good observations... but I will add that the appeal of a UMASS on a BC football schedule is that there are many Umass- Boston branch of the State's college system that identify with their flagship school.. same with Umass- Lowell, and the other state colleges in and around Greater Boston that pull for Umass. They won't go out to Amherst to see UMASS play, nor even to Foxboro to see UMASS play the teams in that league in any large numbers, but the many grads of the Massachusetts state state college system will come out in better numbers to see UMASS play BC locally at Alumni Stadium. I have family in this situation. They live in Greater Boston, don't care much for BC football, but graduated from the Massachusetts state college system, and will come out to watch UMASS play BC. BC knows this, and its probably why they factored this into their decision to schedule them ( as they did a few years ago, and played them at Alumni, and drew a good size crowd ( larger than some of the other out of conference games) That and the fact that BC probably sees it as an automatic and easy win for them.. .... as for BC scheduling Holy Cross, I agree with you that such a scheduled game does nothing for BC nationally. But neither does scheduling Uconn do that for BC either. BC's national fortunes will rise or fall with what they do in the ACC, nor who they schedule and play in New England. This is true of course with Uconn as well. Uconn will rise or fall nationally with what they do in the AAC, not a single game every few years with BC, even if they won such a potential future matchup game with them.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

BC & Yawkey, it has been a great read through this post, way better than doing work and I appreciate the civility that you show in the face of the occasional insult. I won't jump into the fray with any nonsensical comments. I have no insider knowledge and won't pretend to. I would love to see the game happen. I'd love for there to be something tied to it such that it becomes attractive for rivals week. Maybe we play for a staue of a golden lobster or some other item that would be significant to both states.
I will say on the scheduling front that you can't play everyone. You need those OOC games in various parts of the country for recruiting and visability purposes. If I had my way, I'd try to make URI, PC, UMass, BC and Harvard regulars in the OOC schedule, but you can't do it and need to pick and choose.
Can someone get Warde on here to explain his scheduling policy?

 

[Yawkey Way]

I agree with you, but when the neighbor is an underhanded, deceitful liar operating in a stealthy undermining manner, they deserve and lawsuit and much much more. I frankly don't understand why UConn would ever seek out BC.

Me neither. Its a curious thought process at work. If the neighbor is supposedly this vile, evil, lying, underhanded, etc the natural inclination is not to want to have any future dealings with this neighbor ever again. I certainly don't want to go over to such a neighbor's house to want to toss the football around with him, or invite him over to my yard to toss the football around. So why some UCONN fans apparently want to go to such a neighbor's house when presumably there are more worthy neighbors around and about escapes both of us.

 

[Yawkey Way]

BC & Yawkey, it has been a great read through this post, way better than doing work and I appreciate the civility that you show in the face of the occasional insult.

No problem, Fairfield. and thanks for the good reply. BC should put aside the lawsuit times, all the hateful words ( borne out of understandable frustrations) and schedule a future games between these 2 schools ( and UCONN should do so similarly with UMASS as well) BC- UCONN football will happen. Once all the former and current actors from both sides that have poisoned the well in all this sorry saga permanently leave the stage. And they will in time in my opinion.

 

[BC1978]

Thanks Fairfield. This has been a fun thread and, if I can be a bit bold, more constructive dialog can be had instead of both fan bases descending into the mutual insults.

 

[UConnJim]

If BC is going to play an FCS school, it makes sense to play Holy Cross, but there will be little interest in the game from casual fans, but maybe from older alumni who remember when HC was good in football.

I have asked Bates about playing UConn in football and basketball. He cited this year's game in NY (I asked before the game was played) and he actually seemed excited to play UConn in basketball in the future. In football, he kind of hedged as it doesn't seem like the older alumni are for it. Seems in basketball, BC has everything to gain, but in football, BC has everything to lose. It is what it is.

As for UMass, UMass has not been a relevant basketball program since Calipari until this year. When UMass was relevant, UConn played them. (And UMass is not the #2 basketball program in New England. Yes, they are good this year, but I would rate PC and BC higher and maybe even Harvard above UMass.) In football, UMass was FCS before this year, so it really didn't make too much sense and UConn did play them in 2012. Perhaps we will play again in the future, but you have to question if UMass will be playing FBS football in 5 to 10 years. My bet is that they won't be.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Me neither. Its a curious thought process at work. If the neighbor is supposedly this vile, evil, lying, underhanded, etc the natural inclination is not to want to have any future dealings with this neighbor ever again. I certainly don't want to go over to such a neighbor's house to want to toss the football around with him, or invite him over to my yard to toss the football around. So why some UCONN fans apparently want to go to such a neighbor's house when presumably there are more worthy neighbors around and about escapes both of us.

I suspect one contributing factor to the interest in UConn and BC playing football again is the students at both schools. Back before money and such, college football rivalries were local and driven by the students themselves. As only very few HS graduates apply to schools more than 6 hours away or so by car, most friends apply to the same schools. Thus, when Friend A from metro Hartford goes to Yale and Friend B goes to Harvard, a rivalry is borne (I imagine the same applies to Auburn/Alabama, USC/UCLA, etc.). Local rivals have also allowed friends/rivals to visit each other’s school and share the experience (Route 10 in CT, MA & NH is called the ‘college highway’ for reason). Simply multiply that over the number of admissions and over the years. As UConn has become more and more selective over the last 20 or so years (BC has, too), more and more students are applying to both UConn and BC. Thus, there is a natural; but, currently unrealized rivalry between the two.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

BC represents a convenient road game. The second best BB program in NE has been a revolving door for the last 20-25 years.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I have asked Bates about playing UConn in football In football, he kind of hedged as it doesn't seem like the older alumni are for it. .

As for UMass, Perhaps we will play again in the future, but you have to question if UMass will be playing FBS football in 5 to 10 years. My bet is that they won't be.

BC, the school makes these decisions, not "the older alums ". If the " older alums" had their way, BC would not be scheduling UCONN for anything in the future. Also, if the BC ' older alums " had their way, BC, the school, would not have agreed to allow ND to negotiate one of ND's home games at Fenway Park vs. BC in 2015. So this doesn't sound quite right to me for some reason. Bates can not blame " the older BC alums " for HIS decision not to put Uconn on its future football schedule at the present time..... as for UCONN and UMASS, whether or not Umass might have an FBS program in 5-10 years is not a justifiable reason in my view for them not to be on UCONN'S future football schedule it would seem to me. If the game was future scheduled, but UMASS dropped down a level, they could be replaced easily, or even played still despite the lower level division dropped down to.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I suspect one contributing factor to the interest in UConn and BC playing football again is the students at both schools. .

I only wish it were true. Uconn being a State flagship University has the majority of its students from the State of Connecticut. BC, on the other hand, is a comparatively small private University that draws the majority of its students from not only outside Massachusetts, but outside of New England. As such, for the majority of its students and recent alums, there is virtually little to no interest in Uconn football on its schedule. It is what it is. To them, it might just well be Colorado State on the out of conference schedule as UCONN. The interest is entirely one sided here. I'm from Greater Boston ( with family relatives from Connecticut ), so I'm interested in BC playing either Umass or Uconn, but I'm in the minority, especially when it comes to the current student body at BC and with its recent grads there.

 

[UConnJim]

BC, the school makes these decisions, not "the older alums ". If the " older alums" had their way, BC would not be scheduling UCONN for anything in the future. Also, if the BC ' older alums " had their way, BC, the school, would not have agreed to allow ND to negotiate one of ND's home games at Fenway Park vs. BC in 2015. So this doesn't sound quite right to me for some reason. Bates can not blame " the older BC alums " for HIS decision not to put Uconn on its future football schedule at the present time..... as for UCONN and UMASS, whether or not Umass might have an FBS program in 5-10 years is not a justifiable reason in my view for them not to be on UCONN'S future football schedule it would seem to me. If the game was future scheduled, but UMASS dropped down a level, they could be replaced easily, or even played still despite the lower level division dropped down to.

I was at an event with BC alums and Bates and I am just telling you what happened. I should have said older donors instead of older alums. If BC alums were asking Bates to play UConn in football, it would happen.

 

[Yawkey Way]

If BC alums were asking Bates to play UConn in football, it would happen.

I agree with this assessment. The BC alums AND donors animis toward everything UCONN is equal too, or even exceeeded by, the animis of Uconn fans on this board toward BC. It is what it is regarding the older BC alums and the BC Donors, many of whom are one and the same. But this group is smaller by far than the average casual non alum fans that were born and raised near Boston. For them, they only marginally care about BC, but when they do, most of them would prefer to see BC play UMASS at Alumni as an out of conference opponent in my observations, as at least it has some connection to Massachusetts for most of them. After UMASS, UCONN would be their preference, then Holy Cross, then all the other non New England schools in non Big 6 Conferences, in that order as out of conference potential teams. Thats my sense of things anyway after living in Boston for over half a century.

All this said, even a home and away game every decade or so really doesn't do much for either BC or Uconn, imo..... even from a Connecticut sports fan interest ( and it does little at all for the non BC alum Greater Boston fan of college football, imo ).... finally, I think we can all agree that if UCONN was invited to the BIG 10, UCONN would go and probably wouldn't care if they never got to play BC ever again " for the great good it will do for the interest of college football in New England ". Am I correct in this assessment do you think... or not ?

 

[UConnJim]

I agree with this assessment. The BC alums AND donors animis toward everything UCONN is equal too, or even exceeeded by, the animis of Uconn fans on this board toward BC. It is what it is regarding the older BC alums and the BC Donors, many of whom are one and the same. But this group is smaller by far than the average casual non alum fans that were born and raised near Boston. For them, they only marginally care about BC, but when they do, most of them would prefer to see BC play UMASS at Alumni as an out of conference opponent in my observations, as at least it has some connection to Massachusetts for most of them. After UMASS, UCONN would be their preference, then Holy Cross, then all the other non New England schools in non Big 6 Conferences, in that order as out of conference potential teams. Thats my sense of things anyway after living in Boston for over half a century.

All this said, even a home and away game every decade or so really doesn't do much for either BC or Uconn, imo..... even from a Connecticut sports fan interest ( and it does little at all for the non BC alum Greater Boston fan of college football, imo ).... finally, I think we can all agree that if UCONN was invited to the BIG 10, UCONN would go and probably wouldn't care if they never got to play BC ever again " for the great good it will do for the interest of college football in New England ". Am I correct in this assessment do you think... or not ?[/quote

I attended both UConn and BC and I disagree with you. UConn will always want to play BC, Syracuse, and Rutgers in football no matter what conference they are in. Personally, I think an annual UConn/BC football game would be great for developing interest in college football in New England and I think it would be beneficial to both schools.

 

[buddy]

"Key conspirators"? Really? What exactly did BC do in leaving the BE that Rutgers, SU, Pitt, or Maryland did not do?

Look, I understand the motivation and reasoning of Uconn and the other plaintiffs in filing the lawsuit. However, can we dispense with the absurd insinuations of criminality?

No.

 

[specialisthusky]

I agree with this assessment. The BC alums AND donors animis toward everything UCONN is equal too, or even exceeeded by, the animis of Uconn fans on this board toward BC. It is what it is regarding the older BC alums and the BC Donors, many of whom are one and the same. But this group is smaller by far than the average casual non alum fans that were born and raised near Boston. For them, they only marginally care about BC, but when they do, most of them would prefer to see BC play UMASS at Alumni as an out of conference opponent in my observations, as at least it has some connection to Massachusetts for most of them. After UMASS, UCONN would be their preference, then Holy Cross, then all the other non New England schools in non Big 6 Conferences, in that order as out of conference potential teams. Thats my sense of things anyway after living in Boston for over half a century.

All this said, even a home and away game every decade or so really doesn't do much for either BC or Uconn, imo..... even from a Connecticut sports fan interest ( and it does little at all for the non BC alum Greater Boston fan of college football, imo ).... finally, I think we can all agree that if UCONN was invited to the BIG 10, UCONN would go and probably wouldn't care if they never got to play BC ever again " for the great good it will do for the interest of college football in New England ". Am I correct in this assessment do you think... or not ?

Here is the probem. ..UConn has always viewed BC as a rival. BC left for the ACC after getting waxed on the basketball court and beating us twice in football and considered the rivalry dead, yet the school's admins worked to ensure not only the rivalry was dead, but the school's athletic department as well.

This increases the bad blood in what UConn still considers a rivalry.

UConn could be winning national championships over Alabama in football and I would still want a yearly game against BC. Local rivalries make college sports what they are for the fans and often times the program.

Do you think it is a coincidence the only sport BC competes for national championships in has local rivals?

 

[HartfordHank]

Do you think it is a coincidence the only sport BC competes for national championships in has local rivals?

And what local rival does UConn Woman's Basketball have? I guess there goes that thought process!

 

[specialisthusky]

And what local rival does UConn Woman's Basketball have? I guess there goes that thought process!

It had Rutgers for a number of years....

 

[DarthGrumpy]

And what local rival does UConn Woman's Basketball have? I guess there goes that thought process!

My memory is a little hazy from 20 or so years ago; but, before UConn's women's basketball team went to the next level and developed rivalries with the other national powers (ND, Tenn, Sanford, etc.), UConn had very competitive games with BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, Penn State and even HC and Vermont had some equitable teams back then.

UConn women are unique though. I would look at how local, fierce rivals elevated certain football programs across the country, these rivalries led to each program getting better and becoming national powers - UCLA/USC, Texas/Oklahoma, Alabama/Auburn, etc.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Here is the probem. ..UConn has always viewed BC as a rival.

I understand that Uconn considers BC their rival ( although they've rarely played one another in football ). I really do. But BC does not want Uconn as " their football rival ". , and will never allow this to happen.They consider ND their rival, although certainly ND laughs at that notion. BC sees ND as the only 2 Catholic Univerities playing major college football, and with similar University missions. Most current students from BC are from outside Mass. and outside New England, so as such they are more interested in what national schools are doing in recruiting today ( BC boards looking at Rutgers, as BC has sizable student body from NY- NJ these days ). BC also has a long history of football with Syracuse, going back to the 50's. This will probably be BC future regional northeast " rival " and a school they'll play in Division each year. Non BC alums living in Boston don't follow Uconn football, as they barely follow BC football. So BC is able to schedule whomever they want up here in Boston as there is virtually little to no demand from up here to play Uconn " for the interest it will generate for N.E. College football " Umass- BC does that for the small numbers that interested in that sort of thing in Greater Boston. I wish it was different, but it is what it is, and I just commenting on the reality of things, not how it should be, or how it might or could be..... if UCONN wins the AAC it won't matter what happens up in Boston, nor whom BC plays. Uconn will get the national recognition it craves all on its own. And bottom line, I would assume that Uconn's quest all along was of a national nature, not " N.E. College Football ". Otherwise, the quest would be to play Umass every year, 2 state Universities with similar regional student draws, similar student missions, cultures, admission standards, and 2 schools that have played football for many many years, and a revival with them would be " good for New England College Football ". Thats how I assess this from a N. E. perspective from up here in Greater Boston anyway. Anyway, good luck to Uconn. BC and UCONN will play football again. It'll take awhile, but it will happen, imo

 

[Waquoit]

With Blumenthal as Senator (for life), I doubt BCU will play us until he retires. I think maybe in 15 years UConn-BC will have a game.

The lawsuit gave the Big East time to regroup. BCU's plan wasn't just to jump to the ACC, it was to leave Big East football in ruins behind it. The lawsuit mitigated some of BCU's treachery. Without the lawsuit, UConn football might have never gotten out of the gate.

 

[ZooCougar]

I don't think UConn considers BC a rival.

 

[Waquoit]

My memory is a little hazy from 20 or so years ago; but, before UConn's women's basketball team went to the next level and developed rivalries with the other national powers (ND, Tenn, Sanford, etc.), UConn had very competitive games with BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, Penn State and even HC and Vermont had some equitable teams back then.

Providence won WBB BE titles until Geno took over.

 

[Yawkey Way]

The lawsuit gave the Big East time to regroup. BCU's plan wasn't just to jump to the ACC, it was to leave Big East football in ruins behind it. The lawsuit mitigated some of BCU's treachery. Without the lawsuit, UConn football might have never gotten out of the gate.

Once Miami decided to leave the BE Football, the dominos fell, and BC jumped on board when they got the call after Miami, Virginia, Virginia Tech were out and into the ACC. The BE was a mishmash of schools with dissimilar missions even before Miami set things in motion. The BE was a league comprised of basketball centric schools ( that played no football ) and football schools whose basketball was barely on the radar screen with them ( example.. Miami ). The dissatisfaction by the BE football schools with the BE was present well before UCONN decided it wanted to upgrade its football program, facilities, national aspirations. And the BE Basketball centric schools were livid when the BE football centric schools got together and tossed Temple out of its BE in football. So the BE was never on the same page, and it was run by people ( Dave Gavitt, later Michael Tranghese ) with BE Basketball interests. So the league was essentially bound to split apart, almost from its very beginnings, in my opinion. It was all just a matter of when, not if. This is my assessment anyway, and we here should be able to agree with it seems to me. Now, having said all this, was BC about to hang around the BE and help Uconn, or want to help them in any way, shape, or manner, to elevate themselves to a level of a BC Football program ?( that had never lost to Uconn ). Of course not. Miami did not start the dominos to fall based upon anything that was happening in Connecticut. But BC certainly thought the timing was good for them insofar as what Uconn was attempting to do in Storrs. Any BC fan that still harbors thoughts contrary to this are mistaken in my opinion.

 

[BC1978]

The lawsuit gave the Big East time to regroup. BCU's plan wasn't just to jump to the ACC, it was to leave Big East football in ruins behind it. The lawsuit mitigated some of BCU's treachery. Without the lawsuit, UConn football might have never gotten out of the gate.

Hardly. BC didn't initiate the jump to the ACC. Miami did. BC voiced great concern over the long-term viability of the Conference given the hybrid structure (as detailed in the BE's own minutes). When BC had an opportunity to join Miami, they did. As I have maintained throughout this thread, institutions do what is in their best interests. Those best interests can either serve or hinder the interests of other institutions; but that is not the responsibility of the institution in question - as long as they follow the "rules" (exit provisions) when they depart.

Miami and BC looked out for their best interests and pursued the ACC - as did VT (who actually was able to temporarily push BC out of the way and jump to the ACC themselves - after being one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit!!), Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Maryland, et al. Each school left their respective conference pretty much the same way - following the exit provisions of their conference. In some cases, disputes over exit provisions had/are being adjudicated.

That is pretty much it! None of these schools, IMO, engaged in any sort of premeditation to "destroy" their respective conferences. Now, certainly conferences can be impacted by decisions of member schools that exit; but that is a whole lot different than some sort of premeditated effort to do this.

 

[buddy]

Hardly. BC didn't initiate the jump to the ACC. Miami did. BC voiced great concern over the long-term viability of the Conference given the hybrid structure (as detailed in the BE's own minutes). When BC had an opportunity to join Miami, they did. As I have maintained throughout this thread, institutions do what is in their best interests. Those best interests can either serve or hinder the interests of other institutions; but that is not the responsibility of the institution in question - as long as they follow the "rules" (exit provisions) when they depart.

Miami and BC looked out for their best interests and pursued the ACC - as did VT (who actually was able to temporarily push BC out of the way and jump to the ACC themselves - after being one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit!!), Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Maryland, et al. Each school left their respective conference pretty much the same way - following the exit provisions of their conference. In some cases, disputes over exit provisions had/are being adjudicated.

That is pretty much it! None of these schools, IMO, engaged in any sort of premeditation to "destroy" their respective conferences. Now, certainly conferences can be impacted by decisions of member schools that exit; but that is a whole lot different than some sort of premeditated effort to do this.

VT was invited only after the governor of Virginia insisted that they be taken to the ACC or the U of Virginia would have voted against the inclusion of BC and Miami. BC and Miami worked in an underhanded manner to effect this event. No tears will be shed for BC. They are pure evil.