OT: Alex Cora's Philosophy

[tentoes4rings]

Yeah, the quantity of prospects in the deals might bother people, but the quality should not. Most of them were guys who had so-so value and were unlikely to pan out. The only failure so far is Thornburg/Shaw, and that's only because Thornburg had an unexpected injury and Shaw had an unexpected resurgence after having been exposed late in the 2016 season.

In terms of quantity, the question is: is a GM really going to give up someone of consequence for a handful of B-level prospects? If not, then the throw-ins don't really hurt you.

Dombrowski basically had to make those deals to get back into contention quickly. Cherington stocked the farm but was unwilling to make a big move and the major-league performance was abysmal.

Good point about Cherington. I think Ben's problem was he was so close to the kids that it would have hurt him to deal them away. He preferred to go the free agent route and struck out mightily with the Sandoval deal, Justin Masterson etc... Also, two key members of this year's team, Porcello and Hanley looked like huge mistakes as well in year one. With Hanley playing well this year, Porcello pitching well overall and Ben's guys like Devers being solid contributors, his fingerprints left on this team don't look that bad after all.

 

[Excalibur]

Yeah, the quantity of prospects in the deals might bother people, but the quality should not. Most of them were guys who had so-so value and were unlikely to pan out. The only failure so far is Thornburg/Shaw, and that's only because Thornburg had an unexpected injury and Shaw had an unexpected resurgence after having been exposed late in the 2016 season.

In terms of quantity, the question is: is a GM really going to give up someone of consequence for a handful of B-level prospects? If not, then the throw-ins don't really hurt you.

Dombrowski basically had to make those deals to get back into contention quickly. Cherington stocked the farm but was unwilling to make a big move and the major-league performance was abysmal.

I agree with this, but Dombrowski isn’t exactly a guy that I would trust to restock the farm.

 

[David 76]

I think Theo is the one you shouldn't have let get away

 

[Tenspro2002]

I agree with this, but Dombrowski isn’t exactly a guy that I would trust to restock the farm.

No, but that wasn't why he was brought here.

Dombrowski was brought in to be the adult in the room and get the club back to winning quickly. He's done his job.

I don't expect him to be here for the long-term.

 

[intlzncster]

I think Theo is the one you shouldn't have let get away

Thanks Larry Lucchino

 

[huskiemaniac]

Cora’s philosophy isn’t all that different from joe Girardi’s was. He routinely rested players from early in the season, as does Aaron Boone now. I. Assuming many managers do as well since saber metrics tell them the more games they get off the better they play later.

 

[Yardigan]

Not sure where the over/under was (whaler11 might have known), but Carson Smith is history.
With that motion...surprising he made it this long....

 

[Yardigan]

Is Pedey done?

 

[TitleTown]

It baffles me it took this long.

I knew this 15 years ago and my college teammates made fun of me for it when I tried to tell them about it.

It makes zero sense to teach hitting the ball on the ground when you teach pitchers to try and "throw groundballs" too.

Ted Williams knew this 60 years ago. His book "The Science of Hitting" contradicted most of the "hitting rules" of the time and he was way ahead of the curve in his approach.

 

[TitleTown]

Is Pedey done?

Done? No, but he will never be what he was. I think you can expect a .290, 10hr. 25 2b hitter, while playing GG level defense out of Pedroia. He is also going to need his days off to manage his knee.

 

[the Q]

Ted Williams knew this 60 years ago. His book "The Science of Hitting" contradicted most of the "hitting rules" of the time and he was way ahead of the curve in his approach.

I know. That's where I got it from.

It's my favorite book ever written about hitting, or even baseball in general. A true master of his craft sharing all of his secrets...and yet people poo poo it because....well really no good reason.

Whenever someone questions it I just ask: you teach pitchers to throw ground balls, why would you teach your hitters to hit them?

 

[the Q]

Done? No, but he will never be what he was. I think you can expect a .290, 10hr. 25 2b hitter, while playing GG level defense out of Pedroia. He is also going to need his days off to manage his knee.

Giving him a very long contract was just not a smart move.

 

[TitleTown]

They are gutted, but how many of the trades wouldn't you'd make again?

1. Moncada/Kopech for Sale is a no brainer, even though the 2 for 1 stings--especially since they got JD now.
2. Kimbrel? He's pretty damn good. 4 prospects hurts from a pure numbers standpoint.
3. Pomerantz for Espinoza, tbd. Pomerantz has been OK, but who knows if Espinoza pans out in the end; think he had Tommy John surgery. He still might have been valuable trade bait in the end.
4. Carson Smith hasn't worked out overall due to injuries. Maybe he's turning a corner though.
5. Ziegler was a decent trade.
6. The Tyler Thornburg trade was a bum trade (3 prospects +Shaw).

I mean, looking at it, I'm probably making 1 through 5 again. I'd take back Carson Smith deal, but that's only because of unknown injuries after the fact.

I think where he's been dragging is all of these multiple prospect for single player trades. I think other GMs know they can squeeze Dombrowski because he's willing to give up a bunch of dudes to guarantee a deal goes through. His style gives up leverage implicitly.



Well, they have the answer to that one on the roster right now, with Martinez, Moreland, and maybe Swihart. You just have to sacrifice D to do that.

1. Kopech was the real prize in that deal, kid is going to be an absolute stud! Moncada will NEVER live up to the hype because he can't hit a big league breaking ball. Dombrowski was able to get Sale, one of the top 5 pitchers in MLB, on an extremely team friendly deal while not having to give up Benintendi,

2. Kimbrel is/has been the best closer in baseball and the centerpiece in that deal was Manuel Margot who has averaged 1 WAR per season over the past 3 years.

3. Pomeranz has been a decent pitcher for Boston up until this year. Honestly, I think he is pitching hurt because it his contract year. His velocity is down 3-4 mph and his signature breaking ball does not have the same break. Anderson Espinoza who was traded for Pomeranz has indeed had TJ surgery and his development has halted.

4.Carson Smith had a ton upside but just has not worked out. They only gave up Wade Miley for him so you can't knock the deal that much.

5. Ziegler was solid addition for a playoff run.

6. Thornburg has been hurt and Shaw had a huge resurgence in Milwaukee but the sting of that deal was lessened by the emergence of Devers at 3b.

 

[the Q]

They are gutted, but how many of the trades wouldn't you'd make again?

1. Moncada/Kopech for Sale is a no brainer, even though the 2 for 1 stings--especially since they got JD now.
2. Kimbrel? He's pretty damn good. 4 prospects hurts from a pure numbers standpoint.
3. Pomerantz for Espinoza, tbd. Pomerantz has been OK, but who knows if Espinoza pans out in the end; think he had Tommy John surgery. He still might have been valuable trade bait in the end.
4. Carson Smith hasn't worked out overall due to injuries. Maybe he's turning a corner though.
5. Ziegler was a decent trade.
6. The Tyler Thornburg trade was a bum trade (3 prospects +Shaw).

I mean, looking at it, I'm probably making 1 through 5 again. I'd take back Carson Smith deal, but that's only because of unknown injuries after the fact.

I think where he's been dragging is all of these multiple prospect for single player trades. I think other GMs know they can squeeze Dombrowski because he's willing to give up a bunch of dudes to guarantee a deal goes through. His style gives up leverage implicitly.



Well, they have the answer to that one on the roster right now, with Martinez, Moreland, and maybe Swihart. You just have to sacrifice D to do that.

Smith was traded for Wade Miley. Idk who they used that savings on....but it couldn't have been much worse.

I figured Smith would need TJ at some point because of his motion and usage rate of his slider. But he seems like the rare guy who isn't going to bounce back from it. Which is the really surprising part.

A guy getting TOS is really not something you can plan for. Had Smith and Thornburg not gotten hurt the bullpen would look like the 2014-2015 KC royals.

The Pomeranz trade....man, it would really have depended on if DD could've swung a deal with Espinoza and a few others for a better arm. That one is hard to say. You probably take it even though Pom is maddeningly frustrating. But time will tell.

 

[AreBee1969]

I know. That's where I got it from.

It's my favorite book ever written about hitting, or even baseball in general. A true master of his craft sharing all of his secrets...and yet people poo poo it because....well really no good reason.

Whenever someone questions it I just ask: you teach pitchers to throw ground balls, why would you teach your hitters to hit them?

This is the most amazing thing I saw in Cooperstown. Each ball in this image shows the batting average Ted Williams thought he would hit on a ball thrown in any given location in the strike zone.

 

[the Q]

This is the most amazing thing I saw in Cooperstown. Each ball in this image shows the batting average Ted Williams thought he would hit on a ball thrown in any given location in the strike zone.

Yes. It's fantastic. And a great lesson for younger players.

 

[AreBee1969]

Yes. It's fantastic. And a great lesson for younger players.

I also found it funny that the highest average on his chart is .400 yet he hit .406 in '41.

 

[Johnny Mac]

I ...When JBJ plays though, there are two automatic outs in the lineup, contrast that to the Yankees who have none...

I heard Suzyn Waldman say Wednesday night that the 4, 5 & 6 hitters, Stanton, Sanchez and Austin are a combined 7 for for their last 71 with 30 k's

 

[intlzncster]

I heard Suzyn Waldman say Wednesday night that the 4, 5 & 6 hitters, Stanton, Sanchez and Austin are a combined 7 for for their last 71 with 30 k's

And yet the Yanks are still rolling. Imagine when those guys get going--and they will?

 

[Waquoit]

And yet the Yanks are still rolling. Imagine when those guys get going--and they will?

Didn't they already get going this year? What do you call an 17-1 stretch?

 

[intlzncster]

Didn't they already get going this year? What do you call an 17-1 stretch?

That was my point. Lately, their studs haven't been hitting and they are still doing very well. Another 17-1 run might be in the offing.

 

[Waquoit]

So imagine until they get going again. I can wait.

 

[intlzncster]

So imagine until they get going again. I can wait.

Well if you want to do semantics fine. The point wasn't that esoteric. I too can wait though.

 

[Yardigan]

Done? No, but he will never be what he was. I think you can expect a .290, 10hr. 25 2b hitter, while playing GG level defense out of Pedroia. He is also going to need his days off to manage his knee.

Going to go out on a limb and say he probably doesn't get 10 gomers between this year and next combined.
Guy is all heart and hustle on the field (kinda dooshy off, but who really cares?)...his body just couldn't keep up...