OT: Alex Cora's Philosophy

[the Q]

Hitting it hard is good. That's been known forever.

What's new is the idea that hitting it hard on the ground is a waste, and hitting it hard in the air is much, much better.

It baffles me it took this long.

I knew this 15 years ago and my college teammates made fun of me for it when I tried to tell them about it.

It makes zero sense to teach hitting the ball on the ground when you teach pitchers to try and "throw groundballs" too.

 

[the Q]

I will question cora’s Philosophy on the double steal.

 

[NC_Uconn_Fan]

Come on, LCF in Fenway is 379, only 20 feet shallower than Yankee stadium in that area with a 37' wall. If it clears the Monster with ease, Yankee stadium ain't holding it.

Actually, true lc at Fenway is 335', the stated 379 marker is more toward true center field. Yankee stadium is 382' to true lc. That is almost 50' difference. Fenway does make up for it with a large rf. Yankee stadiums, rc is a joke too (I'm a Yankee fan) at 360'. Can't go by the markers on the wall, the markers are correct, but not really in the correct locations.

Sources -

Clem's Baseball ~ Fenway Park

Clem's Baseball ~ Yankee Stadium II

 

[Waquoit]

I will question cora’s Philosophy on the double steal.

Good call, poor execution

 

[the Q]

Good call, poor execution

Vazquez was on 2nd. He's not fast.

You had 2 on and no outs and one of your best hitters up. Who was also a lefty so the catcher had an easy read.

There was very little to gain by stealing 3rd there with Beni up.

 

[Waquoit]

Results oriented analysis. He beat the throw.

 

[the Q]

Nope. The risk was not worth the reward.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Part of the greatness of the Red Sox is having an awesome bench. Three catchers who could start for any team, gold glove caliber Moreland, versatile guys like Holt and Nunez you can plug into 3-4 spots and not miss a beat. Considering Farrell’s teams the last couple years flamed out dramatically in September and October resting guys ain’t the worst thing. You’re not going to go 162-0.

To revisit this post further, the catching situation scares me. Christian has regressed so much offensively that I think an upgrade is seriously needed. For a team with a short window of only a couple years, Id love to see the Sox make a run at a guy like Salvador Perez. He's still young, was a leader on a WS Champion team and would be a perfect fit for this team.

 

[The Viking]

Vazquez’s defense to me this year has been disappointing.
If you are going to suck offensively at least be a very strong defensive catcher like Leon who will block everything and throw out runners.
At this point I’d give Vazquez’s starts to Swihart for 1-2 weeks and see if the kid can back to what he was supposed to be offensively.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Vazquez’s defense to me this year has been disappointing.
If you are going to suck offensively at least be a very strong defensive catcher like Leon who will block everything and throw out runners.
At this point I’d give Vazquez’s starts to Swihart for 1-2 weeks and see if the kid can back to what he was supposed to be offensively.

I couldn’t agree more. Having Swihart on the bench to never play makes no sense. I still believe Swihart can really hit if given a chance. A little drop off defensively with a potentially big upgrade offensively is worth exploring. I think the Sox should make a big push for Salvador Perez, he’s still young and would be a perfect fit for this team.

 

[The Viking]

If the Royals put Perez on the market, the Sox wouldn't have the best offer for him.

 

[tentoes4rings]

If the Royals put Perez on the market, the Sox wouldn't have the best offer for him.

I can’t disagree unfortunately. Dombrowski has gutted the system so much that the Sox are not in a great position to acquire any great players. Also, the payroll is so high. When JBJ plays though, there are two automatic outs in the lineup, contrast that to the Yankees who have none. Either Vazquez or JBJ needs to get it going soon or it’s going to be a real issue.

 

[intlzncster]

I can’t disagree unfortunately. Dombrowski has gutted the system so much that the Sox are not in a great position to acquire any great players.

They are gutted, but how many of the trades wouldn't you'd make again?

1. Moncada/Kopech for Sale is a no brainer, even though the 2 for 1 stings--especially since they got JD now.
2. Kimbrel? He's pretty damn good. 4 prospects hurts from a pure numbers standpoint.
3. Pomerantz for Espinoza, tbd. Pomerantz has been OK, but who knows if Espinoza pans out in the end; think he had Tommy John surgery. He still might have been valuable trade bait in the end.
4. Carson Smith hasn't worked out overall due to injuries. Maybe he's turning a corner though.
5. Ziegler was a decent trade.
6. The Tyler Thornburg trade was a bum trade (3 prospects +Shaw).

I mean, looking at it, I'm probably making 1 through 5 again. I'd take back Carson Smith deal, but that's only because of unknown injuries after the fact.

I think where he's been dragging is all of these multiple prospect for single player trades. I think other GMs know they can squeeze Dombrowski because he's willing to give up a bunch of dudes to guarantee a deal goes through. His style gives up leverage implicitly.

Also, the payroll is so high. When JBJ plays though, there are two automatic outs in the lineup, contrast that to the Yankees who have none. Either Vazquez or JBJ needs to get it going soon or it’s going to be a real issue.

Well, they have the answer to that one on the roster right now, with Martinez, Moreland, and maybe Swihart. You just have to sacrifice D to do that.

 

[Tenspro2002]

They are gutted, but how many of the trades wouldn't you'd make again?

1. Moncada/Kopech for Sale is a no brainer, even though the 2 for 1 stings--especially since they got JD now.
2. Kimbrel? He's pretty damn good. 4 prospects hurts from a pure numbers standpoint.
3. Pomerantz for Espinoza, tbd. Pomerantz has been OK, but who knows if Espinoza pans out in the end; think he had Tommy John surgery. He still might have been valuable trade bait in the end.
4. Carson Smith hasn't worked out overall due to injuries. Maybe he's turning a corner though.
5. Ziegler was a decent trade.
6. The Tyler Thornburg trade was a bum trade (3 prospects +Shaw).

I mean, looking at it, I'm probably making 1 through 5 again. I'd take back Carson Smith deal, but that's only because of unknown injuries after the fact.

I think where he's been dragging is all of these multiple prospect for single player trades. I think other GMs know they can squeeze Dombrowski because he's willing to give up a bunch of dudes to guarantee a deal goes through. His style gives up leverage implicitly.



Well, they have the answer to that one on the roster right now, with Martinez, Moreland, and maybe Swihart. You just have to sacrifice D to do that.

Yeah, the quantity of prospects in the deals might bother people, but the quality should not. Most of them were guys who had so-so value and were unlikely to pan out. The only failure so far is Thornburg/Shaw, and that's only because Thornburg had an unexpected injury and Shaw had an unexpected resurgence after having been exposed late in the 2016 season.

In terms of quantity, the question is: is a GM really going to give up someone of consequence for a handful of B-level prospects? If not, then the throw-ins don't really hurt you.

Dombrowski basically had to make those deals to get back into contention quickly. Cherington stocked the farm but was unwilling to make a big move and the major-league performance was abysmal.

 

[tentoes4rings]

They are gutted, but how many of the trades wouldn't you'd make again?

1. Moncada/Kopech for Sale is a no brainer, even though the 2 for 1 stings--especially since they got JD now.
2. Kimbrel? He's pretty damn good. 4 prospects hurts from a pure numbers standpoint.
3. Pomerantz for Espinoza, tbd. Pomerantz has been OK, but who knows if Espinoza pans out in the end; think he had Tommy John surgery. He still might have been valuable trade bait in the end.
4. Carson Smith hasn't worked out overall due to injuries. Maybe he's turning a corner though.
5. Ziegler was a decent trade.
6. The Tyler Thornburg trade was a bum trade (3 prospects +Shaw).

I mean, looking at it, I'm probably making 1 through 5 again. I'd take back Carson Smith deal, but that's only because of unknown injuries after the fact.

I think where he's been dragging is all of these multiple prospect for single player trades. I think other GMs know they can squeeze Dombrowski because he's willing to give up a bunch of dudes to guarantee a deal goes through. His style gives up leverage implicitly.



Well, they have the answer to that one on the roster right now, with Martinez, Moreland, and maybe Swihart. You just have to sacrifice D to do that.

I have a little different perspective because I lived in Fort Myers for a few years and got to watch and meet a lot of those prospects. Moncada was the one guy I really wished we could have retained and I think if DD stuck to his guns he could have included Groome or additional prospects without having to include him in the Sale trade. Last year was frustrating because we all knew the Sox needed another big bat, especially with Papi's retirement. So I wondered why would you trade away Moncada and Kopech for Sale if you weren't prepared to bolster the offense. With JD added this year it's more defensible, I just think Moncada will be a big star for years and would have been prefect for the Boston spotlight. I agree, only the Thornburg trade looks like a colossal fail right now but with Shaw's defensive issues two years ago it seemed like a solid deal at the time.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Yeah, the quantity of prospects in the deals might bother people, but the quality should not. Most of them were guys who had so-so value and were unlikely to pan out. The only failure so far is Thornburg/Shaw, and that's only because Thornburg had an unexpected injury and Shaw had an unexpected resurgence after having been exposed late in the 2016 season.

In terms of quantity, the question is: is a GM really going to give up someone of consequence for a handful of B-level prospects? If not, then the throw-ins don't really hurt you.

Dombrowski basically had to make those deals to get back into contention quickly. Cherington stocked the farm but was unwilling to make a big move and the major-league performance was abysmal.

Good point about Cherington. I think Ben's problem was he was so close to the kids that it would have hurt him to deal them away. He preferred to go the free agent route and struck out mightily with the Sandoval deal, Justin Masterson etc... Also, two key members of this year's team, Porcello and Hanley looked like huge mistakes as well in year one. With Hanley playing well this year, Porcello pitching well overall and Ben's guys like Devers being solid contributors, his fingerprints left on this team don't look that bad after all.

 

[Excalibur]

Yeah, the quantity of prospects in the deals might bother people, but the quality should not. Most of them were guys who had so-so value and were unlikely to pan out. The only failure so far is Thornburg/Shaw, and that's only because Thornburg had an unexpected injury and Shaw had an unexpected resurgence after having been exposed late in the 2016 season.

In terms of quantity, the question is: is a GM really going to give up someone of consequence for a handful of B-level prospects? If not, then the throw-ins don't really hurt you.

Dombrowski basically had to make those deals to get back into contention quickly. Cherington stocked the farm but was unwilling to make a big move and the major-league performance was abysmal.

I agree with this, but Dombrowski isn’t exactly a guy that I would trust to restock the farm.

 

[David 76]

I think Theo is the one you shouldn't have let get away

 

[Tenspro2002]

I agree with this, but Dombrowski isn’t exactly a guy that I would trust to restock the farm.

No, but that wasn't why he was brought here.

Dombrowski was brought in to be the adult in the room and get the club back to winning quickly. He's done his job.

I don't expect him to be here for the long-term.

 

[intlzncster]

I think Theo is the one you shouldn't have let get away

Thanks Larry Lucchino

 

[huskiemaniac]

Cora’s philosophy isn’t all that different from joe Girardi’s was. He routinely rested players from early in the season, as does Aaron Boone now. I. Assuming many managers do as well since saber metrics tell them the more games they get off the better they play later.

 

[Yardigan]

Not sure where the over/under was (whaler11 might have known), but Carson Smith is history.
With that motion...surprising he made it this long....

 

[Yardigan]

Is Pedey done?

 

[TitleTown]

It baffles me it took this long.

I knew this 15 years ago and my college teammates made fun of me for it when I tried to tell them about it.

It makes zero sense to teach hitting the ball on the ground when you teach pitchers to try and "throw groundballs" too.

Ted Williams knew this 60 years ago. His book "The Science of Hitting" contradicted most of the "hitting rules" of the time and he was way ahead of the curve in his approach.

 

[TitleTown]

Is Pedey done?

Done? No, but he will never be what he was. I think you can expect a .290, 10hr. 25 2b hitter, while playing GG level defense out of Pedroia. He is also going to need his days off to manage his knee.