Options available for the PAC-12

[nelsonmuntz]

It's really a shame for college sports. I thought the PAC 12 was isolated geographically and solid top to bottom. Outside of cashe, it makes no sense for UCLA from the university experience perspective to join the B1G. Crazy stuff.

This is an interesting site containing rankings by conference.

2016 Pacific 12 Conference : Pac12 Academic Rankings

The Best 2016 Pacific 12 Conference : Pac12 Academic Rankings. Stanford University, University of California and University of Southern California are the top 3 universities for this years academic rankings

universitybenchmarks.com

UCONN - this is really the big east although it says patriot

2016 Big East Conference : Patriot League Academic Rankings

The Best 2016 Big East Conference : Patriot League Academic Rankings. Georgetown University, University of Connecticut and Villanova University are the top 3 universities for this years academic rankings

universitybenchmarks.com

The raids always happen right before the target conference is about to get a new TV contract. It is hard to tell how well the Pac 12 would have done in a new TV negotiation, and the Big 10 did not want to find out.

What is a certainty is that UCLA football is finished, and USC basketball's days as a Top 25 program are probably also coming to an end. But the schools are getting paid, so the fans can root for that.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[nelsonmuntz]

These ratings are not nearly as useful standalone data sets as the college football writers make them seem. I am confident that LA sports fans, who are indifferent on their best days, are not going to give a spit about USC/Iowa or UCLA/Indiana in the snow in November after the initial novelty of the Big 10 wears off, especially if the California schools are out of the Top 10. Fans aren't going to care about games involving these far flung teams.

The conferences never understood that their product is not the teams, it is the games, and getting fans the most compelling games possible for their fans should be their objective, rather than just a collection of big markets and historical brand names that do not fit together. As a result, most of the additions have been underwhelming unless there was some historical or geographic rivalry that could be monetized by the new conference. For example, TCU to the Big 12 was a valuable add, and a case could be made for Nebraska even though its market sucks and the program has mailed it in for 5+ years. Maryland and Rutgers to the Big 10 most likely reduced the per game value of the Big 10 from what it would have been otherwise.

 

[huskymedic]

Carrying some water…




(Alternate access pathway)

-> Commissioner George Kliavkoff, who has been silent since the June 30 thunderbolt, will offer his state-of-the-conference address at Pac-12 media day Friday in Los Angeles.

Will he take the stage with facts, confidence and a trumpet … or ignore the elephant standing on the podium with him?

Will he indicate the Pac-12 is also open for business and strike an aggressive tone … or focus on the upcoming 2022 season?

If the former approach is preferred — from here, it doesn’t seem like Kliavkoff has a choice — he certainly won’t lack for evidence:

— The new Pac-12 will have better media markets than the new Big 12.

The 10 remaining schools account for six of the nation’s top 30 markets, according to Nielsen DMA data from 2021. (Add San Diego State, and it would be seven.) The Big 12 will have just four.

— With Washington and Oregon, the conference arguably possesses the top football properties of the 22 schools remaining in the two leagues.

— The TV ratings favor the Pac-12, as well. <-

 

[ScottVib]

Oregon sports-talk host:

Canzano: Delusion aside -- the Big 12 has nothing on the Pac-12

The numbers (and brands) don't lie.

www.johncanzano.com

Last couple of paragraphs:

If you’re the Pac-12 and looking for an advantageous partnership, you’d first turn to the ACC (28 million-plus TV households). If you are the Pac-12 and looking to poach programs, you’d probably turn to San Diego State (1.1 million TV households in the Pacific Time Zone). And the world views of the typical university presidents and chancellors in the Pac-12 footprint don’t mesh easily with those of the Big 12’s leaders.

We’re going to hear from Pac-12 leaders this week as part of the conference’s football media day. Commissioner George Kliavkoff needs to answer some tough questions and may even have some news to share. But before that, the delusion about Big 12 superiority has to stop.

Big 12 fans are nervous about being left behind. Some of the same hysteria swept over the Pac-12 in the wake of the USC/UCLA news. But it’s been replaced by logic, reason and a search for good options. The Pac-12 is the better conference. Period. End stop. The only question now is what ESPN and others are willing to pay to carry its games.

 

[Slasher]

Shockingly playing the only game at 10:30 at night on ESPN draws more ratings than a Big 12 games on ESPNU or FS1. This is no surprise to anyone. Anyone playing a standalone game late a night is going to draw decent but not great ratings. BYU can now fill this role for the Big 12 or any of the Pac-12 additions.

 

[metsfan2323]

These ratings are not nearly as useful standalone data sets as the college football writers make them seem. I am confident that LA sports fans, who are indifferent on their best days, are not going to give a spit about USC/Iowa or UCLA/Indiana in the snow in November after the initial novelty of the Big 10 wears off, especially if the California schools are out of the Top 10. Fans aren't going to care about games involving these far flung teams.

The conferences never understood that their product is not the teams, it is the games, and getting fans the most compelling games possible for their fans should be their objective, rather than just a collection of big markets and historical brand names that do not fit together. As a result, most of the additions have been underwhelming unless there was some historical or geographic rivalry that could be monetized by the new conference. For example, TCU to the Big 12 was a valuable add, and a case could be made for Nebraska even though its market sucks and the program has mailed it in for 5+ years. Maryland and Rutgers to the Big 10 most likely reduced the per game value of the Big 10 from what it would have been otherwi

This is also why UCONN would be a good addition for the ACC. It might help revitalize Syracuse and BC in football and basketball.

 

[Waquoit]

This is also why UCONN would be a good addition for the ACC. It might help revitalize Syracuse and BC in football and basketball.

That's as true today as it was then. But why would those dopes think any different now?

 

[billybud]

I'll try to check out the UConn-BC games this year (@ UConn) and next...BC has been stuck on 6 wins a season during the past three seasons, but still a worthy opponent.

Cuse-UConn this year as well are @ UConn...last year, the Cuse improved from 1-11 to 5-7.

Do you think that the BC and Cuse games this year will be able to be viewed down heah?

 

[Hogoff]

I'll try to check out the UConn-BC games this year (@ UConn) and next...BC has been stuck on 6 wins a season during the past three seasons, but still a worthy opponent.

Cuse-UConn this year as well are @ UConn...last year, the Cuse improved from 1-11 to 5-7.

Do you think that the BC and Cuse games this year will be able to be viewed down heah?

They’re both on CBS Sports. I am in SC and was able to watch all the games last year. I’d imagine you’d be able to watch wherever you are.

 

[billybud]

They’re both on CBS Sports. I am in SC and was able to watch all the games last year. I’d imagine you’d be able to watch wherever you are.

Thanks...I am in western North Carolina...channel 221 on DTV

 

[Hogoff]

Thanks...I am in western North Carolina...channel 221 on DTV

I hope they are entertaining games that are worth the watch for you. I also hope the ratings are high, so thank you for your participation.

 

[Kolumbo]

This is also why UCONN would be a good addition for the ACC. It might help revitalize Syracuse and BC in football and basketball.

I dig ya, but "revitalizing BC basketball" doesn't exist. Pitt and SU maybe. Football of course. None of them even make a blip in basketball anymore. Not even a ripple from an ant pissing in a puddle.

It still blows my mind. Sure, we got screwed by CR over and over again. But Universities like Stanford, Cal, Washington, Arizona, Kansas, and Georgia Tach, UNC, UVA imprisoned in the ACC. Some will get the lifeline but the fact that they are AAU, good athletics and stuck blowing in the wind with no idea if they will make the cut is so bizarre. Good. I also believe the PAC survives in some form if the likes of Stanford and Cal don't go B1G because there is no way they go slumming with the Big 12. PAC could invite Kansas for its academics but after that there is zippo in the Big 12 that the PAC would want. Maybe go for Tulane for academics. For academics and football, there are no programs which bring the goods other than non-AAU privates like Baylor and BYU.

The PAC really got the shiv. The SEC is the only conference the B1G hasn't been able to shiv.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I dig ya, but "revitalizing BC basketball" doesn't exist. Pitt and SU maybe. Football of course. None of them even make a blip in basketball anymore. Not even a ripple from an ant pissing in a puddle.

It still blows my mind. Sure, we got screwed by CR over and over again. But Universities like Stanford, Cal, Washington, Arizona, Kansas, and Georgia Tach, UNC, UVA imprisoned in the ACC. Some will get the lifeline but the fact that they are AAU, good athletics and stuck blowing in the wind with no idea if they will make the cut is so bizarre. Good. I also believe the PAC survives in some form if the likes of Stanford and Cal don't go B1G because there is no way they go slumming with the Big 12. PAC could invite Kansas for its academics but after that there is zippo in the Big 12 that the PAC would want. Maybe go for Tulane for academics. For academics and football, there are no programs which bring the goods other than non-AAU privates like Baylor and BYU.

The PAC really got the shiv. The SEC is the only conference the B1G hasn't been able to shiv.

We don't know that anyone is trapped or got the shiv. Some schools will generate more revenue in the short term, but there is a lot of money to go around in a streaming world, especially as ESPNPlus gets unbundled from Hulu and Disneyplus. The competition between ESPN, Fox, Paramount/CBS and Peacock/NBC should get fierce, and if Amazon decides they want in, then all bets are off.

ESPN is going to have a tough time unbundling unless they get a dominant position in college sports. They are not going to sell a lot of $9.99/month subscriptions for two regional conferences in the ACC and SEC. I think ESPN is going to make a hard run at the Big East in the next contract, and will pay the Pac 12 and Big 12 decent money.

I don't think the Big 10's and SEC's power play is going to work, which is why I don't get why they added USC, UCLA, Texas and Oklahoma.

 

[metsfan2323]

I dig ya, but "revitalizing BC basketball" doesn't exist. Pitt and SU maybe. Football of course. None of them even make a blip in basketball anymore. Not even a ripple from an ant pissing in a puddle.

anything is possible. If Providence can be revitalized by Cooley after being down for many years so can BC.

 

[Billy Jack]

anything is possible. If Providence can be revitalized by Cooley after being down for many years so can BC.

PC has a lot more basketball tradition than BC. And they command the attention of their city in a way that BC does not

 

[billybud]

Providence is a little smaller in population than Worchester....penetration is probably a little easier than Boston.

Problem with Boston is it is a pro sports town...they love their Red Sox, Celtics, Patriots.

 

[Waquoit]

BCU thought the ACC and Duke would revitalize the program. It lasted for one home game with Duke, then back to crickets.

 

[huskymedic]

More trial ballons on demise of PAC-12:

Big Ten evaluating Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington from Pac-12 as further expansion considered

Could the Big Ten balloon to a 20-team (or more) league?

www.cbssports.com

-> Industry sources tell CBS Sports that Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington would not bring requisite value as the 16 teams that will make up the league in 2024 with USC and UCLA in the fold. That could lead to the four programs taking substantially less revenue than existing members just to have long-term security in the Big Ten.

The revenue cut taken by Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington in joining the Big Ten -- compared to other conference members -- would need to be "significant," industry sources say. That would present a headache to rightsholders trying to restructure a deal already in place.

However, the revenue those four teams could receive would still likely be far higher than the combined value of the 10 remaining Pac-12 schools together. That number is estimated as $21 million to $30 million per school annually.

Still, rightsholders who land portions of the lucrative Big Ten deal (still being negotiated) would be forced to outlay additional funds for those schools. The Big Ten's contract is already projected to be north of $1 billion annually. <-

 

[WestCoastHusky]

More trial ballons on demise of PAC-12:

Big Ten evaluating Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington from Pac-12 as further expansion considered

Could the Big Ten balloon to a 20-team (or more) league?

www.cbssports.com

-> Industry sources tell CBS Sports that Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington would not bring requisite value as the 16 teams that will make up the league in 2024 with USC and UCLA in the fold. That could lead to the four programs taking substantially less revenue than existing members just to have long-term security in the Big Ten.

The revenue cut taken by Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington in joining the Big Ten -- compared to other conference members -- would need to be "significant," industry sources say. That would present a headache to rightsholders trying to restructure a deal already in place.

However, the revenue those four teams could receive would still likely be far higher than the combined value of the 10 remaining Pac-12 schools together. That number is estimated as $21 million to $30 million per school annually.

Still, rightsholders who land portions of the lucrative Big Ten deal (still being negotiated) would be forced to outlay additional funds for those schools. The Big Ten's contract is already projected to be north of $1 billion annually. <-

This was always the end game. By taking Cal, B1G will get governor Newsome off UCLA's back. It will lock up NorCal, and add two states in Oregon and Washington. It will destroy the PAC-12, but B1G doesn't care about that.

With this move, Arizona, ASU, Utah, and Colorado will end up in the B12. Oregon State and Washington State will end up in the MWC. The PAC-12 will be no more.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

More trial ballons on demise of PAC-12:

Big Ten evaluating Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington from Pac-12 as further expansion considered

Could the Big Ten balloon to a 20-team (or more) league?

www.cbssports.com

-> Industry sources tell CBS Sports that Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington would not bring requisite value as the 16 teams that will make up the league in 2024 with USC and UCLA in the fold. That could lead to the four programs taking substantially less revenue than existing members just to have long-term security in the Big Ten.

The revenue cut taken by Cal, Oregon, Stanford and Washington in joining the Big Ten -- compared to other conference members -- would need to be "significant," industry sources say. That would present a headache to rightsholders trying to restructure a deal already in place.

However, the revenue those four teams could receive would still likely be far higher than the combined value of the 10 remaining Pac-12 schools together. That number is estimated as $21 million to $30 million per school annually.

Still, rightsholders who land portions of the lucrative Big Ten deal (still being negotiated) would be forced to outlay additional funds for those schools. The Big Ten's contract is already projected to be north of $1 billion annually. <-

Funny that “industry sources” said something similar about the remaining Big East schools in 2003 after Miami, Virginia Tech and BCU announced they were leaving, yet now all the remaining Big East schools from 2003 are in major conferences except Temple. On top of that, Cincinnati, Louisville, Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Creighton, and Xavier are also in major conferences.

I wish the media would stop acting as the propaganda arms of the Big 10, SEC and ESPN.

 

[metsfan2323]

Providence is a little smaller in population than Worchester....penetration is probably a little easier than Boston.

Problem with Boston is it is a pro sports town...they love their Red Sox, Celtics, Patriots.

Completely irrelevant. The city of Providence didn't revitalize the Providence basketball program, Cooley did. Point being Providence found a good coach and he turned them around.

Are you telling me if Cooley or Hurley went to BC they wouldn't be able to help them because of pro sports? I have a hard time believing that. Any program in a P5 or Big East conference can be turned around if they find a good coach.

UCLA never struggled because of the Lakers. Miami is a pro sports town, somehow Larranaga is successful there. Sampson is doing well in Houston. I'm sure there are many examples of college coaches succeeding in pro sports towns.

 

[billybud]

Providence is OK...but it has been 27 years since the Friars have beaten a current P5 team in the NCAA tournament.

Sure, they made the Sweet 16 in 2021-22 playing South Dakota State and Richmond.

Maybe I'll buy that they are revitalized when they play teams that I know in the tournament.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

If true, PAC-12 is in trouble.

ESPN reportedly lowballs Pac-12 in new Media Deal offer

The Conference realignment drama continues as ESPN has reportedly lowballed the Pac-12 Conference with their latest Media Deal offer.

zonazealots.com

 

[shizzle787]

If true, PAC-12 is in trouble.

ESPN reportedly lowballs Pac-12 in new Media Deal offer

The Conference realignment drama continues as ESPN has reportedly lowballed the Pac-12 Conference with their latest Media Deal offer.

zonazealots.com

Not necessarily. If ND stays independent, the Pac-12 still has the upper hand. The Big 12 will end up with a deal in the 20-25 million dollar range (not first offer which will likely be even lower than that).

 

[ScottVib]

If true, PAC-12 is in trouble.

There in an exclusive window where ESPN is the only bidder. You're not going to get your best possible offer there when ESPN is in effect bidding against itself and doesn't have clarity on any bigger (and more costly) opportunities (i.e. can they get a piece of the Big Ten deal).

 

[Husky92]

There in an exclusive window where ESPN is the only bidder. You're not going to get your best possible offer there when ESPN is in effect bidding against itself and doesn't have clarity on any bigger (and more costly) opportunities (i.e. can they get a piece of the Big Ten deal).

This is what the Big East thought when they rejected ESPN. ESPN then went and funded the ACC’s destruction of the Big East. You are not wrong, but the powers that be don’t like being turned down. The PAC12 is in trouble.

 

[Billy Jack]

Providence is OK...but it has been 27 years since the Friars have beaten a current P5 team in the NCAA tournament.

Sure, they made the Sweet 16 in 2021-22 playing South Dakota State and Richmond.

Maybe I'll buy that they are revitalized when they play teams that I know in the tournament.

No true. PC beat #8 USC in 2016. And let’s not forget that the reason that they faced Richmond this year is because UR had upset 5-seed Iowa, a P5 school. You don’t get to pick who you play in the tournament. You can only beat who’s in front of you.

As for Cooley revitalizing their program, you can’t measure that simply by tournament wins. When he took them to the tournament in 2014, it was their first tournament appearance in 10 years. Starting with that season, he has taken them to 6 of the past 8 tournaments. I’d call that revitalizing a program which had become dormant.

In addition, Cooley got them a Big East tournament championship in 2014, something which they had done only once before in school history and led them to a Big East regular season championship this year, something which they had never done before. If you can’t see that he has revitalized this program, I don’t know what you’re looking at.

 

[billybud]

No true. PC beat #8 USC in 2016. And let’s not forget that the reason that they faced Richmond this year is because UR had upset 5-seed Iowa, a P5 school. You don’t get to pick who you play in the tournament. You can only beat who’s in front of you.

As for Cooley revitalizing their program, you can’t measure that simply by tournament wins. When he took them to the tournament in 2014, it was their first tournament appearance in 10 years. Starting with that season, he has taken them to 6 of the past 8 tournaments. I’d call that revitalizing a program which had become dormant.

In addition, Cooley got them a Big East tournament championship in 2014, something which they had done only once before in school history and led them to a Big East regular season championship this year, something which they had never done before. If you can’t see that he has revitalized this program, I don’t know what you’re looking at.

P:rovidence lost to USC in the NCAA's on March 15, 2017. I missed the one win over a current P5 team...USC 70-69 1st round, March 17, 2016.

Providence had the misfortune of being matched with the eventual runner-up UNC in the 2nd.

 

[Hondo 77]

This is what the Big East thought when they rejected ESPN. ESPN then went and funded the ACC’s destruction of the Big East. You are not wrong, but the powers that be don’t like being turned down. The PAC12 is in trouble.

ESPN lowballed the Big East too.