On the "need" for big (ie. tall) post players | Page 3 | The Boneyard

On the "need" for big (ie. tall) post players

Status
Not open for further replies.
I prefer Stewart over any of them. Though all your picks are excellent ones too.
I agree. Stewie’s first year, she had Steph next to her. But later she showed how the Huskies could win without a big center if she was the 4.
 
what's the excuse for not corralling rebounds on defense, as was seen excessively in some games (teammates should get some tips from nika in this regard)

Ask Geno. Good luck getting a straight answer without getting blasted with sarcastic insults.

;) :p

Last few years there were no players of the caliber of Gabby Williams, Napheesa Collier, Stefanie Dolson, Tina Charles, or Maya Moore on the UConn rosters to rebound on defense or offense.

:(
 
Two points:
-While I am a tranditionalist who loves having a big 5 on the team like a Dolson (or better yet a mobile big like Stewie), I doubt we would have much of this conversation without Boston's dominating first half in the championship last year. In the second half, things were coming under control, and we cut the lead to 7. With a full game of decent rebounding, who knows what the outcome would have been?
-I watched this game again and feel much of our early game rebounding issues resulted from our guard defense. SC continually drove past their defender, the UConn Bigs came out to help, and when the shot missed, there were no Huskies in position to rebound. Just having more height would not have solved the issues we created for ourselves the 1st half. I doubt Geno would let this happen again so happy with the balance of shooting, size and athleticism we will have this year.
 
And when she knocks you on your ass for the 12th time you won't be so quick. :)
I guess my point is that Boston is a true center, like Kalani Brown. I don't remember Brown being either quick or having an outside game but no 6'+/- was going to defend her on the low post. When Collier had to play against Brown without Williams in 2019, Baylor won 68-59 and while Collier had 16 pts (on18 shots) & 11 rebounds, she allowed Brown to put up 22 pts & 17 rebounds.
Way to bury the headline! When Napheesa was matched up against Brown in the 2019 game you mentioned Brown got plenty of help in the form of NyLyssa Smith and Lauren Cox. Napheesa held her own to the tune of 16 Points and 11 rebounds. It was Megan Walker and ONO who came up small to the tune of 2 rebounds combined for UCONN on the defensive end and the inaccurate shooting of Cyrstal Dangerfield and KLS (8 for 34) on the offensive side that ultimately doomed UCONN . It was particular Smith for who UCONN had no answer. Smith came off the bench and gave Baylor 12 Points and 6 rebounds in only 12 minutes.
 
Way to bury the headline! When Napheesa was matched up against Brown in the 2019 game you mentioned Brown got plenty of help in the form of NyLyssa Smith and Lauren Cox. Napheesa held her own to the tune of 16 Points and 11 rebounds. It was Megan Walker and ONO who came up small to the tune of 2 rebounds combined for UCONN on the defensive end and the inaccurate shooting of Cyrstal Dangerfield and KLS (8 for 34) on the offensive side that ultimately doomed UCONN . It was particular Smith for who UCONN had no answer. Smith came off the bench and gave Baylor 12 Points and 6 rebounds in only 12 minutes.

Not disagreeing at all. Just commenting.

Surprised that Megan Walker was voted All American. Do not remember Walker playing anywhere near Gabby Williams level in big time national TV games.

KLS shot 47.5% from 3PT as a junior. After her ankle surgery, KLS shot 37.6% from 3PT as a senior. Unable to get sufficient lift on her jump shots? Rebounds per game increased from 4.5 to 6.3, which might be explained by positioning and boxing out.
 
Way to bury the headline! When Napheesa was matched up against Brown in the 2019 game you mentioned Brown got plenty of help in the form of NyLyssa Smith and Lauren Cox. Napheesa held her own to the tune of 16 Points and 11 rebounds. It was Megan Walker and ONO who came up small to the tune of 2 rebounds combined for UCONN on the defensive end and the inaccurate shooting of Cyrstal Dangerfield and KLS (8 for 34) on the offensive side that ultimately doomed UCONN . It was particular Smith for who UCONN had no answer. Smith came off the bench and gave Baylor 12 Points and 6 rebounds in only 12 minutes.

It took a while before I could read this, the post was spinning too fast to see. :)

You almost made me believe that the game was decided by 2 freshmen non-starters. UConn shot 29% and that's why they lost. They only had 9 2pt fgs. Collier made 6 of them but she was 6-14 from 2. All her slick low post moves were ineffective against a true center.

This isn't about why UConn lost. This is a discussion of Collier's ability to play the 5 and the bottom line is that Brown ruled her that day as much if not more than Boston dominated a one-legged ONO.
 
.-.
It took a while before I could read this, the post was spinning too fast to see. :)

You almost made me believe that the game was decided by 2 freshmen non-starters. UConn shot 29% and that's why they lost. They only had 9 2pt fgs. Collier made 6 of them but she was 6-14 from 2. All her slick low post moves were ineffective against a true center.

This isn't about why UConn lost. This is a discussion of Collier's ability to play the 5 and the bottom line is that Brown ruled her that day as much if not more than Boston dominated a one-legged ONO.
Your over the top hyperbole is distracting from your somewhat valid point. Granted Gabby Williams, Napheesa Collier and Megan walker did not have the ideal height or bulk to play the post position for UCONN. Despite lacking ideal height and the required bulk these three players managed to become AAs while playing the post for UCONN. I’d forgotten to send Brown a note of congrats for “owning” Napheesa in this one game. Do you happen to know which WNBA team Kalani is suiting up for this season? Nobody ever owned Napheesa Collier-just stop it!
 
I think WNBA posts about non-UConn players belong on the other board.
 
Ask Geno. Good luck getting a straight answer without getting blasted with sarcastic insults.

;) :p

Last few years there were no players of the caliber of Gabby Williams, Napheesa Collier, Stefanie Dolson, Tina Charles, or Maya Moore on the UConn rosters to rebound on defense or offense.

:(
And as a result, we should've been so proud of this team, right? For what they were able to achieve despite all the injuries?

I guess in a way we can say- Good luck getting any type of appreciation with that without getting blasted with sarcastic insults, right? :):)
 
USC’s post players forced our guards to help out our post players on defense giving Henderson the opportunity to take wide open shots.

Our post players were neutralized much better by their post players allowing their guards to tightly guard our perimeter players.

The discrepancy from the perimeter was directly related to the advantage of their post players. The question mark for me is how much of this superiority would have existed with a healthy ONO.
They played South Carolina (SC) not Southern California(USC)!!!!!!
 
They played South Carolina (SC) not Southern California(USC)!!!!!!
South Carolina goes by UofSC and not SC so if we need to be technical we probably should be technically correct don’t ya think.:cool:
 
Only folks outside of SC call the university SC. South Carolinians call it USC. In Maryland, locals cal the university UM, not the initials, just the sound: ummmm.
 
.-.
I was going to put this in the "recruiting" thread, but it's not discussing any specific recruits, and more a theoretical rambling on my part...

A couple of thoughts FWIW. A lot of people (myself included at times) lament that we don't have, or seem to recruit, a big 6'5" elite true center. Well a couple of things.
First, Boston as we know, is the most elite of all centers in the country. But put her on a lesser team without as much talent at every other position, and it wouldn't really be a problem for UCONN. WHAT you say??

Included in the top 10 centers last season (Boston and Ono on the list of course) were Mackenzie Holmes of Indiana and Elissas Cunane for NC State (Cunane was "rated" higher in the top 10 centers for last season).

When UCONN faced off against Indiana, Holmes had 12 points and 6 boards. Their other forward, 6'3" Gulbe, had 7 and 5. On the other hand, Ono had 10/14 while Edwards had 9/10. Dorka played 3 minutes.

Vs. NC State, it was the opposite. Forwards Cunane/Jones had 18/9 and 12/9 respectively. It was a 2 OT game. ONO and Edwards had 6/7 and 10/6 respectively. 18 boards vs. 13 for us. Dorka played 3 minutes. But in this game our guards carried us with Paige, Azzi and Christyn scoring 67 between the trio. So we overcame the deficiency in our post production with great guard play.

Vs. SC, we were torched by Henderson (26 points) but the duo of Boston/Saxton didn't demolish our post players in production, with the exception of rebounds. 10 offensive boards for SC. Ono/Edwards had 4/2 and 8/2. Boston/Saxton had 11/16 and 6/5. Not devastating in scoring, but of course killed us on the boards. The problem in that game wasn't our post players, but rather the fact that Azzi and Christyn scored a combined 5 points.

Anyway my point is that if you look at the skill and talent we have in the post - right now and incoming - Dorka, Liya, Amari, Ice, Ayanna, and hopefully Aubrey, that's enough to hold our own even against SC. If Ducharme is our 3rd starter at the "guard" spot, then she and Azzi can't chuck up 5 points in a big game and expect to win. We have to do better at rebounding, but this is Boston's last season, and there are no elite centers coming up that are at her level (Betts is way unproven. Cunningham is only 1" taller than Ice and no better).

I would argue that Ice is already elite (for her age) as a big body in the post. Ayanna, at 6'3" (or maybe 6'2") is an uber-elite athlete. She will GET AFTER rebounds. Aaliyah is a beast, Dorka can be, and Amari - well the jury is out on her.

I always want quality bigs. but aside from Boston and maybe Betts, I'm not sure there are any game changers out there. Griner only won 1 NC. We have enough skill and size to win. But a lot depends on how much Amari improves and how much Ice and Ayanna can give us as freshmen. Also we need to be healthy. Good grief, even over the summer, we still hear reports that several players won't be 100% till closer to the start of the season.

I don't doubt that some will be emphatic that we need more quality "size". But 1) it hardly exists and 2) I'm not sure we don't already have that. Thoughts?
I always want us to recruit height too. But the key to the losses in the tournament has not been our height but it has been guard play. Our inability to shut down small quick athletic guards have been our down fall. 2017 Morgan Williams (Miss St). 2018-19 Arike Ogunbowale (Notre Dame), 2021 Ari McDonald (Arizona) and 2022 Destanni Henderson (South Carolina). All are quick small athletic guards who are under 5'8". Granted two were last second shots, but it was not the height that made us lose. We have just not had an answer for that in the last 6 years.
 
I’m glad we’re not relitigating the NC game loss. But I agree with @oldhuskie and his reading of the likelihoods over the next two seasons and the importance of having enough people to play a ‘natural’ position.

As it happens, I’m very confident about what Ice and Ayanna will be able to bring even as freshmen. I suspect a rotation consisting of the 5 bigs (with Amari as the only real question mark) will be very difficult for any team to cope with. Even SC, with a tremendous Boston and a so-so Cardozo, will be hard pressed to deal with us. Why? Because they’ll be overwhelmed at the 4. That will put Saxton and Amihere up against a lot of really strong kids. They’re used to being stronger and faster than any opponents, and that won’t be the case against us. They’ll win the battle of the 5s and get swamped at the 4. And I think they’ll be totally outmatched at 1-3. I’d say we’re SC’s worry much more than they are ours.

Its a similar story at Stanford. Brink and Betts and Prechdel may win the 5, but not the 4, and they just don’t have the guards to run with us. If Amari exceeds expectations, so much the better. But even if she just gives us 7-8 mediocre mins, it’s still gonna be a huge plus for us.
I’m simply playing devil’s advocate here but this has been the narrative for a little while now and it didn’t come to fruition in either of the matchups last year. In fact, I would say the UConn bigs played SC’s frontcourt closer to a draw than the guards in the national championship match.

Make no mistake, when Paige is healthy, I don’t think there’s a better guard in the nation. I’m a big fan and have been for some time. But I’m not sure how the loss of a strong defensive post and the addition of two unproven freshman will overwhelm two other top teams at the 4 spot. (For what it’s worth, I suspect Brink will primarily play the 4 for Stanford this year).

To me, the national championship question for Connecticut this year is how the multifaceted frontcourt rotation (admittedly deeper than last year) gels together enough so that the offensive and defensive performances aren’t disrupted when players come in and out at the 4 and 5 spots. The UConn bigs range from raw and absurdly athletic (DeBerry, Griffin, Patterson) to skilled and perhaps a touch undersized (Brady and Juhasz), so remaining consistent on both ends of the floor may determine how far the Huskies go.
 
I’m simply playing devil’s advocate here but this has been the narrative for a little while now and it didn’t come to fruition in either of the matchups last year. In fact, I would say the UConn bigs played SC’s frontcourt closer to a draw than the guards in the national championship match.

Make no mistake, when Paige is healthy, I don’t think there’s a better guard in the nation. I’m a big fan and have been for some time. But I’m not sure how the loss of a strong defensive post and the addition of two unproven freshman will overwhelm two other top teams at the 4 spot. (For what it’s worth, I suspect Brink will primarily play the 4 for Stanford this year).

To me, the national championship question for Connecticut this year is how the multifaceted frontcourt rotation (admittedly deeper than last year) gels together enough so that the offensive and defensive performances aren’t disrupted when players come in and out at the 4 and 5 spots. The UConn bigs range from raw and absurdly athletic (DeBerry, Griffin, Patterson) to skilled and perhaps a touch undersized (Brady and Juhasz), so remaining consistent on both ends of the floor may determine how far the Huskies go.
I think you have a reasonable sense of the problems here generally speaking, and about the SC matchup in particular.

My view is optimistic at best. I can only base it on what happened two seasons ago, when Beal couldn't contain Paige, and she led a stunning defeat of SC. It depended importantly on Aaliyah Edwards outplaying Saxton at the 4. When Olivia was out of the game, Edwards couldn't really contain Boston. But Griffin and Edwards together did a pretty decent job of keeping Boston and Saxton from running away with the game at those moments.

It is an optimistic view, to be sure, even if all the injury chances break our way. I think we are very likely to lose at the 4-5, but not by too much, and we'll win at the 1-3 by a lot. SC has some promising young guards who might step up to play next to Beal and Cooke, but they've gotten precious little experience, and our guards have 6 tons of experience. Maybe that mitigates my optimistic reverie a little. In any event, it means that we pose more problems to SC than we did last season.
 
Dorka ONO Edwards were intimidated playing Boston. You could tell in gameplay, Boston was just creaming them for offensive rebounds. This season not sure what will change aside new players pushing them.
 
And a healthy Dorka?

**Before anyone gets on us, I'll say again SC was the better team. Just sayin though . . . But SC deserved their title. An impressive team.
I’m sooo tired of (generally, not you) people acting as though any reference to our injuries (and the overall mental and health status of our team during the NC game) equates somehow, to disrespect for SC and some kind of definitive claim that SC only won because we had injuries! Well, I will not go that far but I do believe it played a substantial part. Would we have won if we had been completely healthy? Clearly, no one can say for sure but it is very clear (in my mind) that we would have had a far greater chance. That is simply a fact and nothing at all to do with “disrespect” towards SC! They were the favorite, they won, they deserved to win, but I don’t see why anyone should be reluctant to point out the fact that we were far and away from being at our best for that game. Let’s just say I’m looking forward to a rematch!
 
I’m sooo tired of (generally, not you) people acting as though any reference to our injuries (and the overall mental and health status of our team during the NC game) equates somehow, to disrespect for SC and some kind of definitive claim that SC only won because we had injuries! Well, I will not go that far but I do believe it played a substantial part. Would we have won if we had been completely healthy? Clearly, no one can say for sure but it is very clear (in my mind) that we would have had a far greater chance. That is simply a fact and nothing at all to do with “disrespect” towards SC! They were the favorite, they won, they deserved to win, but I don’t see why anyone should be reluctant to point out the fact that we were far and away from being at our best for that game. Let’s just say I’m looking forward to a rematch!
yea that user always uses the same excuse.
 
.-.
I’m simply playing devil’s advocate here but this has been the narrative for a little while now and it didn’t come to fruition in either of the matchups last year. In fact, I would say the UConn bigs played SC’s frontcourt closer to a draw than the guards in the national championship match.

Make no mistake, when Paige is healthy, I don’t think there’s a better guard in the nation. I’m a big fan and have been for some time. But I’m not sure how the loss of a strong defensive post and the addition of two unproven freshman will overwhelm two other top teams at the 4 spot. (For what it’s worth, I suspect Brink will primarily play the 4 for Stanford this year).

To me, the national championship question for Connecticut this year is how the multifaceted frontcourt rotation (admittedly deeper than last year) gels together enough so that the offensive and defensive performances aren’t disrupted when players come in and out at the 4 and 5 spots. The UConn bigs range from raw and absurdly athletic (DeBerry, Griffin, Patterson) to skilled and perhaps a touch undersized (Brady and Juhasz), so remaining consistent on both ends of the floor may determine how far the Huskies go.
With all due respect, that’s not what the box score indicates.
 
With all due respect, that’s not what the box score indicates.
to some ppl Uconn has never lost a game, they only beat themselves. Opposition never gets credit.
 
With all due respect, that’s not what the box score indicates.
I think it depends on how you look at it. If I pulled a blind stat and told you Boston/Saxton only won the scoring battle over ONO/Edwards by 5, I think most UConn fans would have felt pretty good about their chances. By the same hand, few of us expected Henderson to go off for 26.

I say all that with the contingency that the rebounding differential was far more pronounced and obviously made a major difference in the game.

Henderson is gone now, as are UConn’s trio of seniors, and so the matchups (hoping that plays out as plural) should have a new flavor with the returning cores and young talent for each team.

In any case, I do think UConn gains more than it lost as far as the frontcourt is concerned (all respect to ONO and Westbrook, who were very good players).
 
Henderson is having a great season in the WNBA, and that testifies to her talent. But I think that 26 pts says more about what the post players did, or didn't do, which meant she was facing a no-help defense most of the night. She made the shots when she was open, so kudos to her. But that was a team accomplishment, as I'm sure she'd be the first to say. Whether she's there or not isn't what matters. It's all gonna rest on what we bring to the game. Of course, without her SC is likely to struggle at the point.
 
I think it depends on how you look at it. If I pulled a blind stat and told you Boston/Saxton only won the scoring battle over ONO/Edwards by 5, I think most UConn fans would have felt pretty good about their chances. By the same hand, few of us expected Henderson to go off for 26.

I say all that with the contingency that the rebounding differential was far more pronounced and obviously made a major difference in the game.

Henderson is gone now, as are UConn’s trio of seniors, and so the matchups (hoping that plays out as plural) should have a new flavor with the returning cores and young talent for each team.

In any case, I do think UConn gains more than it lost as far as the frontcourt is concerned (all respect to ONO and Westbrook, who were very good players).
If, If, If....
If you get demolished on the boards as the box indicates, you’d better be prepared to shoot 70%.
 
I think it depends on how you look at it. If I pulled a blind stat and told you Boston/Saxton only won the scoring battle over ONO/Edwards by 5, I think most UConn fans would have felt pretty good about their chances. By the same hand, few of us expected Henderson to go off for 26.

I say all that with the contingency that the rebounding differential was far more pronounced and obviously made a major difference in the game.

Henderson is gone now, as are UConn’s trio of seniors, and so the matchups (hoping that plays out as plural) should have a new flavor with the returning cores and young talent for each team.

In any case, I do think UConn gains more than it lost as far as the frontcourt is concerned (all respect to ONO and Westbrook, who were very good players).
in no way did Uconn improve over South Carolina, this offseason if we are talking about players who are going to get serious minutes. South Carolina lost a top recruit because they couldn't even get her playing time. They bring back Saxton who surprised a lot of people, Boston, Beal who is a lockdown defender, Zia Cooke. Just a tough lineup all around and they added a transfer from Georgia Tech.
 
.-.
I’m sooo tired of (generally, not you) people acting as though any reference to our injuries (and the overall mental and health status of our team during the NC game) equates somehow, to disrespect for SC and some kind of definitive claim that SC only won because we had injuries! Well, I will not go that far but I do believe it played a substantial part. Would we have won if we had been completely healthy? Clearly, no one can say for sure but it is very clear (in my mind) that we would have had a far greater chance. That is simply a fact and nothing at all to do with “disrespect” towards SC! They were the favorite, they won, they deserved to win, but I don’t see why anyone should be reluctant to point out the fact that we were far and away from being at our best for that game. Let’s just say I’m looking forward to a rematch!
I agree. And it's why I would have always would believe Notre Dame could have given a better fight back in 13-14 if their center didn't get hurt- but CONN won and was the deserved champion. I would want to make clear the Notre Dame fan understood that as well. - Just being fair.
 
I think it depends on how you look at it. If I pulled a blind stat and told you Boston/Saxton only won the scoring battle over ONO/Edwards by 5, I think most UConn fans would have felt pretty good about their chances. By the same hand, few of us expected Henderson to go off for 26.

I say all that with the contingency that the rebounding differential was far more pronounced and obviously made a major difference in the game.

Henderson is gone now, as are UConn’s trio of seniors, and so the matchups (hoping that plays out as plural) should have a new flavor with the returning cores and young talent for each team.

In any case, I do think UConn gains more than it lost as far as the frontcourt is concerned (all respect to ONO and Westbrook, who were very good players).
You are spot on. UCONN will definitely be more formidable this upcoming year. Not only the frontcourt but the backcourt.

Going into that final game our lead center was hurt.
Our backup center/ power forward was unable to play.
Azzi Fud was hurt/ailing.
Ducharme was ailing.
And the prior NPOY Paige was ailing.
The entire team had very limited chemistry.

Adding up all these factors in which all of them together/in unison are unlikely to happen; then it's rather obvious UCONN will be more formidable next year. Though I still give the edge to SC.
And ofc Stanford is always huge.
 
You are spot on. UCONN will definitely be more formidable this upcoming year. Not only the frontcourt but the backcourt.

Going into that final game our lead center was hurt.
Our backup center/ power forward was unable to play.
Azzi Fud was hurt/ailing.
Ducharme was ailing.
And the prior NPOY Paige was ailing.
The entire team had very limited chemistry.

Adding up all these factors in which all of them together/in unison are unlikely to happen; then it's rather obvious UCONN will be more formidable next year. Though I still give the edge to SC.
And ofc Stanford is always huge.
I mostly agree with you. If healthy and UConn get some help from Lou and the freshmen UConn could be more formidable this year. But the bottom line is SC put the better team on the court and won the game. Period. That should be the end of the "what if" discussion. Time to move on to the coming year and NC #12.

As far as the SC / USC confusion, maybe they should just change to LC ("Little Carolina") as many folks just north of them refer to them :)
 
in no way did Uconn improve over South Carolina, this offseason if we are talking about players who are going to get serious minutes. South Carolina lost a top recruit because they couldn't even get her playing time. They bring back Saxton who surprised a lot of people, Boston, Beal who is a lockdown defender, Zia Cooke. Just a tough lineup all around and they added a transfer from Georgia Tech.
Strongly disagree.
Boston will not have as easy a time in the front court with UCONN’s new additions.
Neither Paige, Azzi or Ducharme were 100% last year.
I think UCONN is a better team-top to bottom-than SC is this year.
That was not true last year.
But this is why they play the games.
 
I’m sooo tired of (generally, not you) people acting as though any reference to our injuries (and the overall mental and health status of our team during the NC game) equates somehow, to disrespect for SC and some kind of definitive claim that SC only won because we had injuries! Well, I will not go that far but I do believe it played a substantial part. Would we have won if we had been completely healthy? Clearly, no one can say for sure but it is very clear (in my mind) that we would have had a far greater chance. That is simply a fact and nothing at all to do with “disrespect” towards SC! They were the favorite, they won, they deserved to win, but I don’t see why anyone should be reluctant to point out the fact that we were far and away from being at our best for that game. Let’s just say I’m looking forward to a rematch!
Agree with your take on the SC game and would add the following. Assuming that both teams were completely healthy, SC probably wins 7 or 8 times out of 10. But as we all know, the national championship is a single game. Historically, no one does a better job of preparing a team for a championship game than Geno and his coaching staff.

This past season, even with injuries, UConn did an extraordinary job just getting to the championship game. The four game run vs UCF, IN, NC St & Stanford came against talented and experienced teams that were all well coached. You could make the argument that both NC St and Stanford were as good or better than UConn, and still the Huskies prevailed.

The Stanford game in particular was a classic example of just how effective Geno and his staff can be when preparing a team to face a potentially superior opponent. UConn largely neutralized Stanford’s size advantage, actually winning the rebounding battle. At the same time, UConn never allowed Stanford’s outside shooters to get on track. Offensively, the Huskies created just enough scoring opportunities to end up with the win.

Like you, I want to see UConn & SC matchup against each other with both teams fully healthy. Hopefully, we see that matchup twice this coming season. The Huskies will likely be underdogs in both games, but with a fully healthy team, I like UConn’s chances.
 
“What if” this: two years ago freshman Paige torched SC and we won in OT. She scored 30 even with Beal trying to play deny defense all game. SC was the favorite then, too. What’s changed since then? We’ve both added and subtracted players, and the core players have gotten more experience. Who improved more? You know my answer.

I’m not trying to pretend we won the NC game. I’m speculating about the next game and the next season. What else is the BY for? The last few games are just evidence for that speculation.
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,326
Messages
4,564,167
Members
10,462
Latest member
Liam Rainst


Top Bottom