On the "need" for big (ie. tall) post players

[Bone Dog]

I don't agree with the context of this at all other than being optimistic. UCONN was better than Baylor in 2020-2021 which is why they got the number 1 seed. To say UCONN stole the game - I think is flat out wrong. UCONN won the game. They were better.

As I recall the Baylor game, Geno said he thought Baylor was under seeded and that they shouldn't have met before the Final Four. So there's that. I think in some sense we were better... because Paige made us better.

Paige scored 18 over the first 3 quarters, but DiDi Richards was doing a pretty good job defending her. Of course, no one can really shut Paige down. It's enough to limit her so that the rest of the team can be contained, which is pretty much what happened. And sure enough Baylor had taken a 10 point lead and the rest of the team looked pretty demoralized. Then DiDi went down with 2 mins left in the 3rd with an injury, and without her Paige scored a quick 10 points and Christyn scored 12 of her 21. I'm just guessing, of course, but it looked to me like we'd lost our mojo and were going down. If DiDi hadn't gone down, I think we were gonna lose.

Now I don't think this diminishes Paige's accomplishment in the game -- the second there was an opening she poured in 10 points, and the Baylor defense had to reorganize to deal with her, opening up Christyn. And it's worth noting that Carrington was simply not able to keep up with Paige despite a series of hard fouls throughout the game. Even with Paige's heroics, we almost lost the game anyway in the final seconds. And don't worry, I'm not one of those folks who think the game was stolen by a bad call. Carrington passed up an easy jumper in the hopes of forcing a foul and letting the refs decide the game for them. But refs hate doing that, and after all the hard fouls Baylor had gotten away with -- mainly against Paige -- I think it was just. You play smash mouth ball, you shouldn't complain when you get smashed.

Now maybe you remember that game differently from me. If so, let's hear your retelling.

Now the Arizona game went more or less the same way. Aari McDonald did a better job of deny defense on Paige, and though Christyn and Evina were still able to score, the team seemed pretty helpless to me. Interestingly, Paige scored whenever the team could free her with a screen. But they just weren't able to do that enough. In that season, if anyone could manage to limit Paige -- no easy task -- it was a lot easier to defend the rest of the team. I imagine this is what Coach Barnes saw watching the Baylor game.

So, were we the better team? Yes, in a sense, in both cases. But it seems to me difficult to fail to see that Arizona was mentally tougher than we were. And but for DiDi's injury, I think Baylor was, too. Of course, there's plenty of room to disagree on this.

Now, this year, we played two really great games against NC St. and Stanford, and we could have lost either one. In fact, we made enough "rookie mistakes" in each one to have lost. We were hobbled by injury in each one, to be sure, but I think it's pretty clear that we struggled with the pressure too. Stanford folded under the pressure before we did. That says to me that we had reached our ceiling for that season. But, again, there's lots of room to disagree with this assessment.

 

[socal613ws]

I think most people have been accurate about the team which is most important. At UCONN we expect a top tremendous team year over year-- and the team delivered. They were decimated with injuries and still got to Finals.

The idea that late in the year they were being considered as a 3-seed by some on the media was laughable. I expect that the bitterness and pettiness from some in the media will continue again this year despite UCONN still being among the top 4 in all of America with a shot to win it all.

you can expect a great team, but ever since Paige had a great rookie season any newcomer gets this ridiculous hype and players don't perform and we go into the offseason saying they underachieved, but most 1st year players are going to struggle.

 

[DEpup]

how do we know Lou Senechal can play in a big conference? They played Texas and they got killed.

But she didn't get killed....

 

[Blueconn]

See the SNY Undefeated 2002. No starter was over 6’2”. Wait til Tamika tells the Kara Lawson story about when positionless basketball was invented. We’ve had exactly two centers that were the best. Tina the Champion and Stef the Champion. They’re the two that go to Springfield. We’ve won a lot when we didn’t have the best center. We’re certainly big enough to win right now. 2002 always make the case as being the best ever…and so do others. The team that reinvented perfection.

 

[Blueconn]

Baylor ? Somebody say freshman Griner against senior Tina Charles ? And the perfection of 2010 on the line. Hoping that smart folk get Britney Griner home soon.

 

[jchusky]

Remember, EDD made AA playing in the Colonial Conference. Lou played well against Texas. UConn isn't counting on her the way some others seem to be counting on their transfers to play key roles.

From what we've seen she fits in but it's July.

EDD was recruited to play at Uconn, she only played at Delaware to be close to her sister. She could have played in any school in the country.

 

[hoophuskee]

Now maybe you remember that game differently from me. If so, let's hear your retelling.


Now, this year, we played two really great games against NC St. and Stanford, and we could have lost either one. In fact, we made enough "rookie mistakes" in each one to have lost. We were hobbled by injury in each one, to be sure, but I think it's pretty clear that we struggled with the pressure too. Stanford folded under the pressure before we did. That says to me that we had reached our ceiling for that season. But, again, there's lots of room to disagree with this assessment.

Regards to Baylor, UCONN started playing better when they inserted Nika Muhl into the starting lineup. There was a reason why Nika Muhl was staring and was averaging as many minutes as she was in her frosh year- it's that she allowed Paige more freedom off the ball. And when we had our "offensive unit in," it was having Evina at the 4, CWill at the 3, and Nika at the pg. That's three guards plus a good passing center in Liv. That was worked on all year. That all of sudden goes away with the Muhl injury.

Now we’re forced to play more halfcourt and less ball movement. Even as the game wears on, in the past UCONN had Nika or Evina able to split time at the pg spot in order to keep Paige off the ball, now UCONN is forced to have only one. That's a huge advantage for Baylor knowing UCONN was now quite a bit more limited. And the games of basketball is not one-on-one. So the point being it's not Didi vs Nika. Its UCONN's offense takes a hit right from the beginning. So any excuse Baylor has, imo it is evened out with Nika. You think if UCONN had 3 guards in their lineup with two healthy pg's in which they had chemistry playing with each other for most of the year that they wouldn't be able to figure out how to get Paige more shots? Maybe. But far from certain vs having just the one pg and taking away UCONN’s best offense right from the start.

So if there is an excuse with Didi- the so there is with Nika.

Regarding NC State and Stanford, - they could have lost by more points or not gone into overtime too. So I don't understand your point. They made enough "rookie mistakes" to allow UCONN to win by more too, didn't they?

And yes we were hobbled by injury. SO again if we have any consideration for Baylor with Diddi, then why even mention NC State or Stanford vs what we had to go through which for the season was far far far worse than Baylor had to deal with? Or NC State. Or Stanford.

Agree?

 

[hoophuskee]

you can expect a great team, but ever since Paige had a great rookie season any newcomer gets this ridiculous hype and players don't perform and we go into the offseason saying they underachieved, but most 1st year players are going to struggle.

Who cares as long as the team does well for the season?

We're wanting to watch the team win as much as possible vs watching an individual perform extremely well but with less wins, right? If Azzi averaged 30ppg but we lost to Stanford or NC state, that wouldn't be as good.

 

[Bone Dog]

Regards to Baylor, UCONN started playing better when they inserted Nika Muhl into the starting lineup. There was a reason why Nika Muhl was staring and was averaging as many minutes as she was in her frosh year- it's that she allowed Paige more freedom off the ball. And when we had our "offensive unit in," it was having Evina at the 4, CWill at the 3, and Nika at the pg. That's three guards plus a good passing center in Liv. That was worked on all year. That all of sudden goes away with the Muhl injury.

Now we’re forced to play more halfcourt and less ball movement. Even as the game wears on, in the past UCONN had Nika or Evina able to split time at the pg spot in order to keep Paige off the ball, now UCONN is forced to have only one. That's a huge advantage for Baylor knowing UCONN was now quite a bit more limited. And the games of basketball is not one-on-one. So the point being it's not Didi vs Nika. Its UCONN's offense takes a hit right from the beginning. So any excuse Baylor has, imo it is evened out with Nika. You think if UCONN had 3 guards in their lineup with two healthy pg's in which they had chemistry playing with each other for most of the year that they wouldn't be able to figure out how to get Paige more shots? Maybe. But far from certain vs having just the one pg and taking away UCONN’s best offense right from the start.

So if there is an excuse with Didi- the so there is with Nika.

Regarding NC State and Stanford, - they could have lost by more points or not gone into overtime too. So I don't understand your point. They made enough "rookie mistakes" to allow UCONN to win by more too, didn't they?

And yes we were hobbled by injury. SO again if we have any consideration for Baylor with Diddi, then why even mention NC State or Stanford vs what we had to go through which for the season was far far far worse than Baylor had to deal with? Or NC State. Or Stanford.

Agree?

I do agree, mainly. But why did you think I was trying to make excuses for Baylor, or anyone else, for that matter?

Yes, the loss of Nika was key, as was the loss of Dorka a year later. But my point was only that watching those games you can track the pressure the players felt, and when they were on the verge of folding. Stanford folded before we did last year. And when Carrington tried to force a foul rather than take the open jumper, she effectively folded too. She didn’t want the responsibility of missing, and when the refs wouldn’t bite, she and Mulkey complained. But they never took responsibility for the weak choice.

That’s what folding under the pressure looks like sometimes. But the loss to Arizona seemed more decisive to me. They were tougher and didn’t feel the pressure the way we did. When we beat SC that year, they folded under the pressure of Paige’s hot hand, and interestingly SC later lost to Stanford in the final four in a similar way, by missing a last second put-back in the lane. But this time, it didn’t lead to OT.

Against SC in the NC game, it wasn’t about folding under pressure. We just ran out of healthy people to make it really competitive.

 

[hoophuskee]

I do agree, mainly. But why did you think I was trying to make excuses for Baylor, or anyone else, for that matter?

I agree with a ton of your stuff.

With that said-- then why did you initially say on one of your posts that UCONN "stole a win away from Baylor?" And you made reference to Didi's injury . . . And it didn't sound like you 100% agreed with me that UCONN was better (but instead more lucky) when you spoke of Baylor being under-seeded. It appeared it was a reluctant acknowledgement when you mentioned better because of Paige,..

I guess what you are saying is that the better team won - and it's okay for better teams to win and "stealing victories (tight games coming down to last shot)" is fine/a characteristic of being better?

 

[socal613ws]

I agree with a ton of your stuff.

With that said-- then why did you initially say on one of your posts that UCONN "stole a win away from Baylor?" And you made reference to Didi's injury . . . And it didn't sound like you 100% agreed with me that UCONN was better (but instead more lucky) when you spoke of Baylor being under-seeded. It appeared it was a reluctant acknowledgement when you mentioned better because of Paige,..

I guess what you are saying is that the better team won - and it's okay for better teams to win and "stealing victories (tight games coming down to last shot)" is fine/a characteristic of being better?

Didi Richards went out and Uconn went on a 15-0 run. The better didn't win, the healthier team did.

 

[Bone Dog]

Yup, @hoophuskee That’s just my peculiar way of thinking about teams. Often being better depends on chance and being able to take advantage of chances. Teams that aren’t tight and confident often squander chances.

 

[Bone Dog]

But we totally won this game against Baylor. It depended on DiDi’s injury. But when it counted, ie when Paige saw her opening, she torched them and that opened things up for Christyn. When I say we stole it, I mean we stole it from fate, not Baylor.

 

[Bone Dog]

Another example, the first Marquette game last season. They played us really tough through the middle of the 4th quarter. And Megan Duffy took a time out, and Evina noticed how tired Marquette was (she said this in an interview after the game) and she and Azzi just took over and brought an avalanche of scoring down on them. A close game, and they’d just lost to Villanova the previous game, and Olivia and Caroline were injured, so they might have been a little shaky. But fate winked at Evina, and she and Azzi brought the thunder.

 

[jchusky]

Another example, the first Marquette game last season. They played us really tough through the middle of the 4th quarter. And Megan Duffy took a time out, and Evina noticed how tired Marquette was (she said this in an interview after the game) and she and Azzi just took over and brought an avalanche of scoring down on them. A close game, and they’d just lost to Villanova the previous game, and Olivia and Caroline were injured, so they might have been a little shaky. But fate winked at Evina, and she and Azzi brought the thunder.

where was the fate vs Georgia Tech? Oregon? Villanova?

 

[hoophuskee]

Didi Richards went out and Uconn went on a 15-0 run. The better didn't win, the healthier team did.

Again excuses for Baylor but excluding UCONN without their starting pg. Holding UCONN to a different standard.

SO losing a team's starting pg doesn't count?

A team plays with a certain lineup all year then you lose players and that is a knock on UCONN when they lose but an excuse for Baylor when they lose? How much hypocrisy are we going to deal with here?

 

[Bone Dog]

where was the fate vs Georgia Tech? Oregon? Villanova?

Out to lunch, obviously.

 

[hoophuskee]

But we totally won this game against Baylor. It depended on DiDi’s injury. But when it counted, ie when Paige saw her opening, she torched them and that opened things up for Christyn. When I say we stole it, I mean we stole it from fate, not Baylor.

They only had the lead as much as they did because there was no Nika Muhl.

 

[Skeets]

I think some people are putting a lot of unnecessary hype on Brady and Patterson and they have yet to play. Please don't do this again like people did with Fudd.

Nearly all incoming freshmen (maybe not Piath) are hyped on the BY. Sometimes we're right, i.e. Paige. More often we are somewhat disappointed. There's a lesson to be learned here. Will we learn it? Nah...

 

[EricLA]

Didi Richards went out and Uconn went on a 15-0 run. The better didn't win, the healthier team did.

Does it really matter? Survive and advance. UCONN probably lost at least 2 NC's due to injuries - one when Shea AND Sveta went down - one of them during the BET.

Then this whole past season - only 2 players were healthy enough to play every game, then Dorka broke her wrist in the semifinals, and Olivia played the finals with a pulled groin. Not to mention Azzi's nagging injury. Would we have won? Maybe not, but I'd have liked our chances if 100% healthy.

 

[CocoHusky]

@EricLA started this thread and much of the discussion seems to center around the performance of the freshman.
I want to extend this the discussion and ask these questions:

Questions: Did UCONN acquired more talent than it lost this past season? Why?
In: Lou Lopez-Senechal, Ice Brady and Ayanna Patterson
Out: Evina, CW, ONO, Piath


Yes. but it is very close because.....

In Lou Lopez-Senechal UCONN gets a dynamic 3 level consistent scoring thread where as both Evina and Christyn were inconsistent in shooting and scoring. Both Evina and CW could be inspired to play great perimeter defense which is a skill I have not seen displayed by Lou Lopez-Senechal thus far. The other down side is Lou only has 1 year of eligibility remaining and for mere mortals it takes a full year to learn the UCONN system.

In Ice Brady UCONN get a post player that offensively must be accounted for all over the floor with a body that is better equipped to do some of the required rugged work in the paint. Ice Brady will likely not block as many shots nor collect as many rebounds as ONO did but by being an offensive threat from all over the floor this will make UCONN a better team.

In Ayanna Patterson UCONN gets primarily an athlete who can make basketball plays that most other teams cannot match up with. Ayanna is the X factor that firmly puts me in the yes column.

Thoughts?

 

[ctchamps]

Only folks outside of SC call the university SC. South Carolinians call it USC. In Maryland, locals cal the university UM, not the initials, just the sound: ummmm.

The Charlotte Observer (North Carolina) describes The University Of South Carolina as USC! Since I lived in South Carolina ten years and now live in North Carolina for more than six years I guess I’m beginning to pick up the Southern lingo y’all. Anyways an interesting read on conference realignment from the perspective of this region.

Why College Sports Moving to Super Conferences would hurt South Carolina.

 

[SVCBeercats]

There’s more than Boston in the front court for SC. SC also returns 4 of 5 starters and adds a grad transfer from GT and has a top 5 freshman class coming in. I don’t think you can declare UConn better until the teams play, especially considering SC beat them by double digits twice last year.

It has been 6 years since UCONN won a national title but the we get wild-eyed optimistic without reality staring us in the face. For at least three years we thought Christyn and Olivia were bringing the NCAA trophy home. Didn't happen! But undeterred every summer our wild-eyed optimism prevailed. They were better than ever and this would be the year. FAN = Fanatic

 

[Alydar]

you can expect a great team, but ever since Paige had a great rookie season any newcomer gets this ridiculous hype and players don't perform and we go into the offseason saying they underachieved, but most 1st year players are going to struggle.

Generally you are right about optimistic expectations but besides Bueckers both 2020 classmates Mühl and Edwards met/exceeded expectations also. And in the 2021 class Ducharme was a question mark and is no more. Fudd couldn't exceed her expectations unless she floated around the court but she did prove her worth so in the last 2 classes there have been 5 freshmen that played significant roles the last 2 years.
It's not farfetched to think that one or both of the incoming freshmen will play a positive role this coming year. It's also likely that either or both will get a clear message from Geno on the sidelines.

And a hoorah to the improved recruiting these last several years.

 

[JoePgh]

Didi Richards went out and Uconn went on a 15-0 run. The better didn't win, the healthier team did.

So if you were on a Baylor WBB message board, and some people there said that "the only reason we lost was the injury to Didi Richards", would you tell them to quit making excuses and acknowledge that the better team on that particular day won the game?

I believe that you expressed the view that UConn fans who noted the injuries to key UConn players during the final 2022 game against South Carolina were making excuses and avoiding the reality that SC was the better team that day.

So it seems that your real view is that when UConn loses, excuses are not to be tolerated, but when other teams lose to UConn, UConn should avoid taking credit for the victory if the other team had any plausible excuse. Right?

You and @jchusky are true soulmates.