Olympic women's basketball tournament (5x5) (SPOILER ALERT)

[eebmg]

Well, SDS is a scoring guard, but she's also Phx's PG (is 6th in league at 5.2apg) and you'd figure has plenty of experience getting the ball in the post by playing with Griner. Atkins is an excellent 3-pt shooter and perimeter defender, which the team otherwise lacked. Arike is certainly not a pass-first guard.

The problem for team USA is there is no "natural scoring 3" that fits the mold you're looking for right now. KLS was on the 3x3 team, and besides, she's shooting a pedestrian 34% from 3-pt range this year. The only "wing" that might fit the bill is Betnijah Laney, but she wasn't even in the USA pole of players (a result of her coming out of nowhere to be very good). I'm a huge fan of Courtney Williams, but she's only 5-8 (and I guess they preferred Atkins). Deshields has been underwhelming. EDD is injured. Aysha Clark is injured. Hayes is injured. Angel is injured. Maya is retired. There's not a ton to choose from.

Hayes has the right resume.

 

[donalddoowop]

By 2024, Mo Jefferson may be one of the best guards in the WNBA and a probable for the Olympics.

 

[baggerbob]

By 2024, Mo Jefferson may be one of the best guards in the WNBA and a probable for the Olympics.

Not if she's still playing in Dallas, you have too many guards on that team that demand the ball.

 

[JordyG]

While it's clear Ionescu has not been at 100%, it's unclear if she's at 70% or 90% (or 50%). Either way, the idea that she has stunk it up this year is plain false.

For the season, she's averaging 10ppg, 6apg (good for 4th in the league, though she's only 0.1 assists out of second place), and 5.7rpg. Where she HAS not been great is 2-pt shooting; her FG% is a rotten 35.2% (Though her 3-pt percentage is 37%, which is pretty decent). She has done this all without the center piece post player the Liberty signed to run pick and rolls with her (Natasha Howard).

Has she been as good as the hype? No, she has not yet. But it's clear she already has top level court vision and can advance the ball with the best of them. How well she can score at the next level is TBD.

This has also been her first full year in the league; I'm hopeful we can see her next season, with both her and the key Liberty pieces fully healthy. I think a season where she leads the league in the assists is coming sooner rather than later.

I don't think anyone said Ionescu has stunk it up. But to say she's a "lock" for the next Olympics is just wrong.

 

[bbsamjj]

I don't think anyone said Ionescu has stunk it up. But to say she's a "lock" for the next Olympics is just wrong.

well, you have my agreement there.

 

[Reypl21]

By 2024, Mo Jefferson may be one of the best guards in the WNBA and a probable for the Olympics.

Hmm, she's not even the best guard on her team. I would put her behind Mabrey.

Not if she's still playing in Dallas, you have too many guards on that team that demand the ball.

It's kind of a double-edged sword for MoJeff. I think the quantity of minutes she's getting is beneficial to her health. I'm not sure any team would want to ramp up her minutes unless she can string together a few seasons with no injuries.

 

[southofnorth]

I know future guard play is a huge question mark right now, but does anyone else wonder what happens when Griner is done? She causes so many problems for other teams just with her size and length even though it it’s not nearly as much of a game changer as it was in the college game. Looking back at how Cambage was nearly unstoppable without swarming defense in the 2012 Olympics and then in the 2018 World Cup until she faced off against Griner just had me thinking about this question.

 

[msf22b]

The board is underestimating Paige (above...too slight, not enough experience, blah- blah).

Do so at your own peril (and watch the end of the S Carolina game, again).

A freshman!

 

[BlueSkyGLW]

On DT's play.....she is coming back from injury and did not have enough run of games. Still, Dawn Staley knows her effect on the team and put her in the starting 5 from the time she returned, then managed her minutes. Sometimes, the contributions of a player is not all that visible, though in DT's case, the aura is definitely there to see if you can see that sort of special quality. Lawson as a commentator is looking at the obvious to point out to a casual spectator. Is there a sour note from the past? Welllll, let's not get into that......

Sue is Sue - less flash but before you know it, you have been sliced up like the best of samurai swordsmen would.....

Stewie? The only thing I can say is best not to light a fire anywhere near close to her......she is used to leaping over tall buildings when challenged.

The guards after Sue and Diana bow out are, I repeat, not inspiring. I was sure MoJeff was going to be another Sue Bird but a better defender. Alas, injuries have taken their toll. Her coach in Dallas continues to have faith in her returning to her rookie & UConn form, once declaring that we will see it after the Olympics. I am not sure it will happen with the collection of guards in Dallas.

But, the next wave: Sabrina Ionescu, Paige Bueckers, Azzi Fudd and Caitlin Clark promises to be rich and varied. And yes, Paige most likely will end up playing with Stewie in 2024 Olympics. She knows international play and has experienced it at youth level and will be prepared for national teams level by then. And, I am fully confident that Sabrina will be there too. And if Caitlin Clark continues to play as she did this past year, it will be hard to deny her a spot (just ask DT), though the powers that be will think twice about having too many young guards on the team (theoretically, only two, since Sabrina will have a run of 5 years in the WNBA by then - hope she can stay healthy for full seasons in the future....she hadn't been injury prone in college). I don't think USBB will do the unprecedented and include Azzi, though, no matter how good she becomes at UConn in the next three years (though it would be a tantalizing teaser for the future by putting the Paige-Azzi backcourt partnership on display at senior national team level).

Finally, what are the chances of USA vs France in both men and women BB for the gold medals in Tokyo? I would say pretty good, actually. It would be nice for Gabby.

 

[EricLA]

The guards after Sue and Bird bow out are, I repeat, not inspiring. I was sure MoJeff was going to be another Sue Bird but a better defender. Alas, injuries have taken their toll. Her coach in Dallas continues to have faith in her returning to her rookie & UConn form, once declaring that we will see it after the Olympics. I am not sure it will happen with the collection of guards in Dallas.

But, the next wave: Sabrina Ionescu, Paige Bueckers, Azzi Fudd and Caitlin Clark promises to be rich and varied. And yes, Paige could end up playing with Stewie in 2024. She knows international play and has experienced it a youth level and will be prepared for national teams level by then. And, I am fully confident that Sabrina will be there too. And if Caitlin Clark continues to play as she did this past year, it will be hard to deny her a spot, though the powers that be will think twice about having too many young guards on the team (theoretically, only two, since Sabrina will have a run of 5 years in the WNBA by then - hope she can stay healthy for full seasons in the future....she hasn't been injury prone in college).

Finally, what are the chances of USA vs France in both men and women BB for the gold medals? I would say pretty good, actually. It would be nice for Gabby.

For the most part agree with what you said but... IMHO...

Jewell did not have a great game vs. Australia, but prior to that, her play has been really good. My favorite lineup is Sue, Dee, Jewell, Stewie and A'ja. Given that there are no other Cambage's or Griner's out there on other teams, that lineup gives very little away on size, and seems to have the most well rounded group of players who are versatile, but also playing IN position (ie. Stewie at the 4 and not the 3).

I also think Chelsea Gray played her best game vs. Australia - my beef with her has been that she likes to jack up shots, not even necessarily high % ones, which is a waste if the shot clock is not winding down, or if you have better options to pass to, and she has tons of better options.

VS. Australia, she did have a couple drives to the basket (a-la Whalen), but they were GOOD drives (red sea sort of parted for her). She had something like 8 assists and seemed to be better about involving her teammates, who are all superstars in their own rights for the most part.

This team seems to be playing better. Good to see Atkins get some quality PT vs. Australia. Sort of surprised Pheesa is the last off the bench, but she got 5 minutes of PT and had a chance to play thru any nerves.

Again just IMHO, but a guard like Mabrey or Ogunbowale or Chennedy Carter (altho she was basically dismissed from Atlanta indefinitely so not sure she will every come back, but my point is about her style of play) will never be a good fit for Team USA. They all want to score at every opportunity and are not good facilitators like an elite Team USA PG needs to be.

Frankly, Ogunbowale is not a good fit at this time for the 3x3 either - it's 3 VS. 3, not 1 vs. 3. She often has no interest in passing and until that changes, I just don't see her as a fit for any USA National Team.

Diggins used to be more like that, but she's worked hard at her game and while still a scoring guard, seems to be much more capable and willing to facilitate when needed.

But the backup guards will have to work incredibly hard to remain on Team USA going forward. Ionescu, and the other elite guards in college at this time, will certainly push them for making the team. IF Jefferson can get 100% healthy and play up to her talent, she could be a dark horse. I also wonder about players like Dungee and McDonald - maybe they have a future...

 

[bbsamjj]

I definitely don't think Mabrey or Arike are the answers at PG, but they're also not PGs. Could they be elite shooting guards for a future team USA? Perhaps. I prefer someone like that as an "instant offense off the bench" type role.

 

[BlueSkyGLW]

For the most part agree with what you said but... IMHO...

Jewell did not have a great game vs. Australia, but prior to that, her play has been really good. My favorite lineup is Sue, Dee, Jewell, Stewie and A'ja. Given that there are no other Cambage's or Griner's out there on other teams, that lineup gives very little away on size, and seems to have the most well rounded group of players who are versatile, but also playing IN position (ie. Stewie at the 4 and not the 3).

I also think Chelsea Gray played her best game vs. Australia - my beef with her has been that she likes to jack up shots, not even necessarily high % ones, which is a waste if the shot clock is not winding down, or if you have better options to pass to, and she has tons of better options.

VS. Australia, she did have a couple drives to the basket (a-la Whalen), but they were GOOD drives (red sea sort of parted for her). She had something like 8 assists and seemed to be better about involving her teammates, who are all superstars in their own rights for the most part.

This team seems to be playing better. Good to see Atkins get some quality PT vs. Australia. Sort of surprised Pheesa is the last off the bench, but she got 5 minutes of PT and had a chance to play thru any nerves.

Again just IMHO, but a guard like Mabrey or Ogunbowale or Chennedy Carter (altho she was basically dismissed from Atlanta indefinitely so not sure she will every come back, but my point is about her style of play) will never be a good fit for Team USA. They all want to score at every opportunity and are not good facilitators like an elite Team USA PG needs to be.

Frankly, Ogunbowale is not a good fit at this time for the 3x3 either - it's 3 VS. 3, not 1 vs. 3. She often has no interest in passing and until that changes, I just don't see her as a fit for any USA National Team.

Diggins used to be more like that, but she's worked hard at her game and while still a scoring guard, seems to be much more capable and willing to facilitate when needed.

But the backup guards will have to work incredibly hard to remain on Team USA going forward. Ionescu, and the other elite guards in college at this time, will certainly push them for making the team. IF Jefferson can get 100% healthy and play up to her talent, she could be a dark horse. I also wonder about players like Dungee and McDonald - maybe they have a future...

Hence, I said that after DT and Sue are gone, the current crop are uninspiring because their performances are not sustained at a high level against any opponent. Also, less balance in their games. I do agree that Diggins has worked hard to try to achieve that but sometimes, your DNA dictates how fast you get there. I have noticed she is getting closer.....I have also noticed Lloyd getting better but not yet there (I think Kobe helped her a lot).

The four in the horizon now coming into the scene - Sabrina (another one close to Kobe), Paige, Caitlin and Azzi - often mentioned here have already achieved significant balance.....and now, they just have to continue refining their games and getting better at what they do to be as complete players they seem to want to be. The other three show considerable Steph Curry effect.

 

[Boreifs]

By 2024, Mo Jefferson may be one of the best guards in the WNBA and a probable for the Olympics.

Based on what evidence?

 

[eebmg]

I definitely don't think Mabrey or Arike are the answers at PG, but they're also not PGs. Could they be elite shooting guards for a future team USA? Perhaps. I prefer someone like that as an "instant offense off the bench" type role.

I would not be so sure. Just found the job description online.

Job Description Point Guard (PG) USWNT 2024 Olympics

1) As we transition away from Sue Bird era, the position definition is now Points Guard Must focus above all on scoring
2) Taking tough low percentage shots early in the shot clock a major plus
3) Expected to make a few circus shots so you will be motivated to take even more difficult shots late in games
4) Passing to teammates optional and only to be done it you demand it back
5) Screaming at refs and pouting strongly encouraged.

 

[Reypl21]

Arike could be the candidate for instant offense off the bench. USA Basketball has invited her to the workouts and invited her to one of the teams, so they clearly have her in mind. She has a better shot at making the team than Jefferson.

Posters here acknowledge that it took SDS years to adapt her playstyle to fit USA basketball. I think a few years from now Arike can change her playstyle to fit the mold. She will have to if she wants to be an Olympian, at least 5v5. Her position will be a SG.

Frankly, Ogunbowale is not a good fit at this time for the 3x3 either - it's 3 VS. 3, not 1 vs. 3. She often has no interest in passing and until that changes, I just don't see her as a fit for any USA National Team.

Bad take, Arike would be a monster in 3x3. Her strength, speed, and shiftiness are all assets in 3x3.

 

[donalddoowop]

Based on what evidence?

Her ability.

 

[Plebe]

Bad take, Arike would be a monster in 3x3. Her strength, speed, and shiftiness are all assets in 3x3.

A monster on offense in 3x3, I agree.

As I see it, the concern is with her habitual disinterest in expending energy on defense. Notre Dame, even with its star-studded starting lineup and an elite rim protector like Turner, gave up TONS of points because Muffet could not get Arike et al. to care about defending. This has carried over to her professional career.

 

[Kaizen]

 

[uconnfan68]

Not to get too far ahead of ourselves [we NEVER do that on the Boneyard] but I see Paige on the 2022 World Cup team....and with some good fortune regarding health...on the 2024 Paris team going smoothly from graduation in May of 2024 to the Olympics later that summer.

Dee/Stewie/Candace Parker also had that same jump...grad to Olympics...any others?

Paige, Sabrina, and Caitlin Clark are the future.

 

[BlueSkyGLW]

It could still be six for the gold medal.

Let's see. 2 will retire after this. If Maya comes back, she might make it back. There will be competition for Pheesa but if Tina keeps playing as she has, she could still make it. Tiffany? Who knows? Wonder if KLS gets things back on track (she is still in the pool of players).

By 2024 the next wave of Huskies begin to enter the picture and a lot of them have USA Basketball experience.

Wonder if FIBA will let both Gabby and Bria play for France - mother side of both are French and Bria has already played for France before.

 

[Kaizen]

Paige, Sabrina, and Caitlin Clark are the future.

Plus Azzi ...

 

[hoophuskee]

I think Lawson's commentary has been just fine. She remarked about liking Gray and Bird but she also was extremely complimentary of DT to start the Aussie game and everything that she brings to the table. She said something like "When DT is out there, the team feels more empowered. They feel like they can't lose. That presence she has, no question helps the Americans."

I just think these type of comments are someone that loves/appreciates DT's game. And her comment of liking two facilitators (Bird and Gray) doesn't mean a thing regarding how much of an impact she feels DT is.

I think she likes both Gray and DT. I think everyone on here likes both. So when they play well enough positive comments are gonna fly, and not meant to detriment either.

 

[CL82]

Arike could be the candidate for instant offense off the bench. USA Basketball has invited her to the workouts and invited her to one of the teams, so they clearly have her in mind. She has a better shot at making the team than Jefferson.

[whispers] Maybe not. I hear the fix is in.

 

[phil sampieri]

Hmm, she's not even the best guard on her team. I would put her behind Mabrey.
It's kind of a double-edged sword for MoJeff. I think the quantity of minutes she's getting is beneficial to her health. I'm not sure any team would want to ramp up her minutes unless she can string together a few seasons with no injuries.

 

[phil sampieri]

Maybrey couldn’t guard a chair nor
can Arike