October non-UConn recruiting thread | Page 2 | The Boneyard

October non-UConn recruiting thread

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This conversation is really jumping around (that's NEVER happened before on a message board :rolleyes:). Close has been hands down much better than Olivier at UCLA, that was my starting point. Her not winning a Championship is duly noted, but does not distinguish her from more than 300 other coaches in D1 in that regard.
 
nwhoopfan said:
This conversation is really jumping around (that's NEVER happened before on a message board :rolleyes:). Close has been hands down much better than Olivier at UCLA, that was my starting point. Her not winning a Championship is duly noted, but does not distinguish her from more than 300 other coaches in D1 in that regard.
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I agree, Close has also been pretty consistent with her recruiting.
 
nwhoopfan said:
This conversation is really jumping around (that's NEVER happened before on a message board :rolleyes:). Close has been hands down much better than Olivier at UCLA, that was my starting point. Her not winning a Championship is duly noted, but does not distinguish her from more than 300 other coaches in D1 in that regard.
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Close despite having the #1 recruiting class has never won even a conference championship. Her best conference finish has been tied for 3rd. Even Nikki Fargas finished 2nd in the conference twice in her 3 season at UCLA.
 
DaBball said:
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Justine Pissott plays high school ball for the Red Bank Catholic "Caseys," one of the stalwarts of the famed New Jersey Shore scene ... and possessors of one of the coolest nicknames in the state.

Pissott has been tagged as one of the "up and comers" in that neck of the woods by Shore observers, most notably Tiny Green, who charliebball knows well. She's 6'2" and does most of her damage facing the basket from the wing. Great 3-pt. threat: Pissott has super form and can stroke it.

She joined the Philly Belles this year with another Jersey Shore break-out star, Madison St. Rose. She was also playing with 2021 ND commits Olivia Miles and Sonia Citron. Due to the contracted schedule, didnt' get much (any?) feedback on that iteration of the Belles.

But coaches Harper did and they made a successful northern incursion, both to the Shore and the Philly Belles. Mike Flynn indicated Pissott is the first Belle in Knoxville in quite some time.

As for the Shore, 2021 prospect Destiny Adams is also leaving the shore to head south to North Carolina and play for Coach Courtney Banghart's Tar Heels. However, I'm guessing Coach Banghart knew all about Adams while she was at Princeton. (Banghart's Tar Heels and Princeton were high on Olivia Miles' list before she chose to play for Niele Ivey at ND.)

One-offs or trends? Or the type of player led the Harpers here? Stay tuned.
 
CocoHusky said:
Close despite having the #1 recruiting class has never won even a conference championship. Her best conference finish has been tied for 3rd. Even Nikki Fargas finished 2nd in the conference twice in her 3 season at UCLA.
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That's true, and I also believe that Close is a better recruiter than she is a coach. However, the Pac 12 has not been a constant throughout all of this, and Close's arrival in Westwood has basically coincided with, first, the arrival of Oregon State and, then, Oregon as serious contenders for the conference title. That has made winning a much bigger challenge than it had been in the past.
 
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CocoHusky said:
Close despite having the #1 recruiting class has never won even a conference championship. Her best conference finish has been tied for 3rd. Even Nikki Fargas finished 2nd in the conference twice in her 3 season at UCLA.
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Unrelated, but it had me curious about how often #1 Recruiting classes have success at the Conference level and beyond.

2013 was the first year ESPN did a Class Rankings (At least from what I could find...I may be wrong.)

2013 – UNC (DeShields, Mavunga, Gray, Washington) This class didn't last past their sophomore season.

Freshman Season (DeShields, Mavunga, Gray, Washington) – 6th in the conference. Semi-finals of ACC Tournament | Elite Eight NCAA

Sophomore Season (DeShields, Mavunga, Gray, Washington)– 6th in Conference. Quarterfinals ACC Tournament. | Sweet Sixteen NCAA

2014 – UCLA (Canada, Drummer, Caldwell, Hayes, Billings) ESPN
Caldwell leaves after her Freshman season. Drummer had injuries and Redshirted

Freshman Season (Canada, Drummer, Caldwell, Hayes, Billings) – 6th in Conference. Quarterfinals Pac12 Tournament | Won WNIT

Sophomore Season (Canada, Drummer, Caldwell, Hayes, Billings) – 4th in Conference [w/o Caldwell]. Loss in Pac12 Championship | Sweet Sixteen NCAA

Junior Season (Canada, Drummer, Caldwell, Hayes, Billings) – 4th in Conference [w/o Drummer]. SemiFinals Pac 12 Tournament | Sweet Sixteen

Senior Season (Canada, Drummer, Caldwell, Hayes, Billings) – Tied for 3rd in Conference. SemiFinals Loss | Elite Eight NCAA
Drummer played one more season 4th in Conference. Semifinals Pac12 | Sweet Sixteen NCAA

2015 – Duke (Salvadores, Lambert, Suggs, Primm, Gorecki) ESPN
Salvadores leaves after one season. Primm leaves after Sophomore Season. Gorecki Redshirts 2016

Freshmen Season (Salvadores, Lambert, Suggs, Primm, Gorecki) – 7th in Conference. Quarterfinals ACC tournament | No WNIT or NCAA.

Sophomore Season (Salvadores, Lambert, Suggs, Primm, Gorecki)– 2nd in Conference [w/o Gorecki]. Runner-Up ACC Tournament | Second Round NCAA. [to 10 seed Oregon]

Junior Season (Salvadores, Lambert, Suggs, Primm, Gorecki)– Tied for 5th in Conference [w/o Lambert]. Quarterfinals Loss in ACC tournament | Sweet Sixteen Loss NCAA

Senior Season (Salvadores, Lambert, Suggs, Primm, Gorecki) – Finished 11th in Conference [w/o Lambert]. Second Round ACC | No WNIT or NCAA
Gorecki and Lambert played another season finished 3rd in Conference. Quarterfinals ACC | COVID Cancels Tournaments (Predicted to Miss Tournament in Bracketology)

2015 – Louisville (Durr, Cole, Jones, Fuehring, DeGrate) ProspectsNation
Cole and DeGrate leaves after freshmen season, Jones leaves after sophomore season

Freshmen Season (Durr, Cole, Jones, Fuehring, DeGrate) – 2nd in Conference. Semifinals ACC tournament | Second Round NCAA

Sophomore Season (Durr, Cole, Jones, Fuehring, DeGrate) – Tie for 4th in Conference. Semifinals ACC tournament | Sweet Sixteen NCAA.

Junior Season (Durr, Cole, Jones, Fuehring, DeGrate) – Tie for 1st in Conference. ACC Tournament Champion | Final Four NCAA

Senior Season (Durr, Cole, Jones, Fuehring, DeGrate) – Tie for 1st in Conference. Runner-up ACC Tournament | Elite Eight NCAA


2016 – Maryland (Slocum, Staiti, Charles, Watson, S. Jones, Myers) ESPN and ProspectsNation
Slocum and Staiti leave after freshmen seasons.

Freshmen Season (Slocum, Staiti, Charles, Watson, S. Jones, Myers) – 1st in Conference. B1G Tournament Champions | Sweet Sixteen Loss [Same 10 seed Oregon from above]

Sophomore Season (Slocum, Staiti, Charles, Watson, S. Jones, Myers) – 2nd in Conference [w/o Slocum and Staiti]. Runner-Up B1G Tournament| 2nd Round Loss in NCAA

Junior Season (Slocum, Staiti, Charles, Watson, S. Jones, Myers) – 1st in Conference. Runner-Up B1g Tournament | Second Round Loss [UCLA team from above].

Senior Season (Slocum, Staiti, Charles, Watson, S. Jones, Myers) – 1st in Conference. B1G Tournament Champions | NCAA Cancelled (4 Seed Bracketology)

2017 – Tennessee (Westbook, Hayes, Davis, Kushkituah) ESPN and ProspectsNation
Hayes leaves after Freshmen season. Westbrook leaves after Sophomore season.

Freshmen Season (Westbrook, Hayes, Davis, Kushkituah)– 4th in Conference. Quarterfinals in SEC tournament | Second Round Loss NCAA

Sophomore Season (Westbrook, Hayes, Davis, Kushkituah) – Tied for 8th in Conference.. Quarterfinals in SEC tournament | First Round Loss NCAA

Junior Season (Westbrook, Hayes, Davis, Kushkituah) – Tied for 4th but 6 seed in Tournament. Quarterfinals SEC | NCAA Cancelled (9 seed Bracketology)

2018 – Baylor (Smith, DeCosta, Scott-Grayson, Egbo, Bickle) ESPN and ProspectsNation
Scott-Grayson and DeCosta leave after Freshmen seasons.

Freshmen Season (Smith, DeCosta, Scott-Grayson, Egbo, Bickle) – 1st in Conference. Big12 Tournament Champions | NCAA Champions

Sophomore Season (Smith, DeCosta, Scott-Grayson, Egbo, Bickle) – 1st in Conference. Big12 Tournament Cancelled. Number 1 seed. | NCAA Cancelled (1 Seed Bracketology)

2019 – South Carolina (Boston, Cooke, Amihere, Beal, Thompson) ESPN AND ProspectsNation

Freshmen Season – 1st in Conference. SEC Tournament Champions | NCAA Cancelled (Overall 1 Seed Bracketology)
No one has transferred out yet.

2020 – Oregon (Parrish, PaoPao, Watson, Scherr, Dugalic) ESPN
2020 – UConn (Bueckers, McClean, Muhl, Edwards, Gabriel) ProspectsNation

Just for fun because I think we can all agree about the Number 1 class for 2012

2012 – UConn (Stewart, Jefferson, Tuck)

Freshmen Season (Stewart, Jefferson, Tuck) – 2nd in Conference. Runner-Up Big East Tournament | NCAA Champions

Sophomore Season (Stewart, Jefferson, Tuck) – 1st in Conference. AAC Tournament Champions | NCAA Champions

Junior Season (Stewart, Jefferson, Tuck) – 1st in Conference. AAC Tournament Champions | NCAA Champions

Senior Season (Stewart, Jefferson, Tuck) – 1st in Conference. AAC Tournament Champions
| NCAA Champions

So, since 2012 only UCLA, UNC, and Duke have had Number 1 recruiting classes and Not won their Conference or Conference Tournament in their four years [does UNC count for that?].

Only two Number 1 Recruiting Classes have won the National Title (Uconn 4x, Baylor) another has made the Final Four (Louisville, which was the one debated top class).

Also worth noting, since 2012, of the Top Rated Classes that have played two season, no class has stayed together until graduation.
 
Dillon77 said:
Justine Pissott plays high school ball for the Red Bank Catholic "Caseys," one of the stalwarts of the famed New Jersey Shore scene ... and possessors of one of the coolest nicknames in the state.

Pissott has been tagged as one of the "up and comers" in that neck of the woods by Shore observers, most notably Tiny Green, who charliebball knows well. She's 6'2" and does most of her damage facing the basket from the wing. Great 3-pt. threat: Pissott has super form and can stroke it.

She joined the Philly Belles this year with another Jersey Shore break-out star, Madison St. Rose. She was also playing with 2021 ND commits Olivia Miles and Sonia Citron. Due to the contracted schedule, didnt' get much (any?) feedback on that iteration of the Belles.

But coaches Harper did and they made a successful northern incursion, both to the Shore and the Philly Belles. Mike Flynn indicated Pissott is the first Belle in Knoxville in quite some time.

As for the Shore, 2021 prospect Destiny Adams is also leaving the shore to head south to North Carolina and play for Coach Courtney Banghart's Tar Heels. However, I'm guessing Coach Banghart knew all about Adams while she was at Princeton. (Banghart's Tar Heels and Princeton were high on Olivia Miles' list before she chose to play for Niele Ivey at ND.)

One-offs or trends? Or the type of player led the Harpers here? Stay tuned.
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Being reported Pissott is now 6'4 too
 
It's worth noting that not all conferences are created equal. It's hard to compare a #1 Recruiting Class in the AAC, Big 12, and BiG against the Pac-12, SEC, and the ACC. In the Pac-12, you have Stanford and Oregon currently as perennial title contenders combined with the rise of Oregon State. Most of Close's time at UCLA has seen the Pac-12 have 2-3(!) Top 10 teams during the season. That's hard to move up in the pecking order against especially if a team like Oregon has a player like Ionescu.

In the ACC, we do see Louisville having some success with their class, but rarely does one class a team make. It takes years of good recruiting luck to become the top dog in the ACC. While Duke may have had a good year in 2015, I don't recall them backing it up in the years after.
 
CocoHusky said:
Close despite having the #1 recruiting class has never won even a conference championship. Her best conference finish has been tied for 3rd. Even Nikki Fargas finished 2nd in the conference twice in her 3 season at UCLA.
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UCLA just finished tied for 2nd with Stanford in 19-20. I couldn't even remember who was between Olivier and Close, thanks for that. Fargas was only there 3 years and got out while the getting was good. I think she has revealed at LSU she's not all that as a coach. :rolleyes:
 
Dillon77 said:
Justine Pissott plays high school ball for the Red Bank Catholic "Caseys," one of the stalwarts of the famed New Jersey Shore scene ... and possessors of one of the coolest nicknames in the state.

Pissott has been tagged as one of the "up and comers" in that neck of the woods by Shore observers, most notably Tiny Green, who charliebball knows well. She's 6'2" and does most of her damage facing the basket from the wing. Great 3-pt. threat: Pissott has super form and can stroke it.

She joined the Philly Belles this year with another Jersey Shore break-out star, Madison St. Rose. She was also playing with 2021 ND commits Olivia Miles and Sonia Citron. Due to the contracted schedule, didnt' get much (any?) feedback on that iteration of the Belles.

But coaches Harper did and they made a successful northern incursion, both to the Shore and the Philly Belles. Mike Flynn indicated Pissott is the first Belle in Knoxville in quite some time.

As for the Shore, 2021 prospect Destiny Adams is also leaving the shore to head south to North Carolina and play for Coach Courtney Banghart's Tar Heels. However, I'm guessing Coach Banghart knew all about Adams while she was at Princeton. (Banghart's Tar Heels and Princeton were high on Olivia Miles' list before she chose to play for Niele Ivey at ND.)

One-offs or trends? Or the type of player led the Harpers here? Stay tuned.
Expand ...
The buzz on Pissott is that she can definitely stroke it and is very basketball savvy and in the mold of many Jersey Shore kids. There is a little bit of surprise that she committed to the Lady Vols this early. The last Philly Belle to land in Knoxville was Jannah Tucker in 2013. I've written about Tucker on the BY before. Tucker was on a Philly Belles team with Stewie and Brittney Sykes. I was privy to many of those Belles practices during which Tucker, at times, was the best player in the Gym by a long shot.
 
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Lorcan said:
It's worth noting that not all conferences are created equal. It's hard to compare a #1 Recruiting Class in the AAC, Big 12, and BiG against the Pac-12, SEC, and the ACC. In the Pac-12, you have Stanford and Oregon currently as perennial title contenders combined with the rise of Oregon State. Most of Close's time at UCLA has seen the Pac-12 have 2-3(!) Top 10 teams during the season. That's hard to move up in the pecking order against especially if a team like Oregon has a player like Ionescu.

In the ACC, we do see Louisville having some success with their class, but rarely does one class a team make. It takes years of good recruiting luck to become the top dog in the ACC. While Duke may have had a good year in 2015, I don't recall them backing it up in the years after.
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Very true. I almost delved into the differences in Conference strengths and other recruiting cycles.

Baylor didn't win their National Title because of that freshmen class. Smith was the main contributor from that class for that season (~15min, 8.4 pts, 5.1 rbs) and the Big12 isn't nearly as challenging as the Pac-12 is now or the ACC was most other seasons.

UNC Class Rankings
2013 – 1st (ESPN)
2014 – NR (ESPN)
2015 – 7th (ESPN) 7th (PN)
2016 – 13th (ESPN) 29th (PN)
ACC FF Appearances during this time: 4 (Notre Dame 2x, Maryland 1x, Syracuse 1x)

UCLA Class Rankings
2013 – NR (ESPN)
2014 – 1st (ESPN)
2015 – 10th (ESPN) 17th (PN)
2016 – NR (ESPN) NR (PN)
2017 – 6th (ESPN) 5th (PN)
Pac12 FF Appearances during this time: 5 [only 4 during the Number 1 classes time] (Cal [2013], Stanford 2x, Washington 1x, Oregon State 1x)

Duke Class Rankings
2013 – 2nd (ESPN)
2014 – 3rd (ESPN)
2015 – 1st (ESPN) 4th (PN)
2016 – NR (ESPN) 36th (PN) <2016 was the year McCallie was investigated for mistreatment
2017 – 11th (ESPN) 9th (PN)
2018 – NR (ESPN) 20th (PN)
2019 – 13th (ESPN) 16th (PN)
ACC FF Appearances during this time: 7 [only 4 during this classes time] (Notre Dame 4x, Maryland 1x, Syracuse 1x, Louisville 1x)

Maryland Class Rankings
2013 – 7th (ESPN)
2014 – NR (ESPN)
2015 – 11th (ESPN) 11th (PN)
2016 – 1st (ESPN) 1st (PN)
2017 – NR (ESPN) NR (PN)
2018 – 5th (ESPN) 11th (PN)
2019 – 3rd (ESPN) 3rd (PN)
B1G FF Appearances during this time: 1 [0 during this classes time] (Maryland 1x)

Tennessee Class Rankings
2013 – 3rd (ESPN) Russell redshirt this and was the #1 player. Her time overlaps
2014 – 6th (ESPN)
2015 – 13th (ESPN) 12th (PN)
2016 – NR (ESPN) NR (PN)
2017 – 1st (ESPN) 1st (PN)
2018 – 4th (ESPN) 4th (PN)
2019 – 9th (ESPN) 8th (PN)
2020 – NR
SEC FF Appearances during this time: 4 [3 during the Number 1 classes time] (South Carolina 2x, Mississippi State 2x)

Baylor Class Rankings
2015 – 4th (ESPN) 5th (PN)
2016 – 2nd (ESPN) 4th (PN)
2017 – 7th (ESPN) 2nd (PN)
2018 – 1st (ESPN) 1st (PN)
2019 – NR (ESPN) NR (PN)
2020 – 9th (ESPN) 5th (PN)
Big 12 FF Appearances during this time: 1 (Baylor)

South Carolina Class Rankings
2016 – 11th (ESPN) 38th (PN)
2017 – 10th (ESPN) 7th (PN)
2018 – 16th (ESPN) 10th (PN)
2019 – 1st (ESPN) 1st (PN)
2020 – NR (ESPN) NR (PN)
SEC FF Appearances during this time: 4 [0 during the Number 1 classes time] (South Carolina 2x, Mississippi State 2x)

UConn Class Rankings
2012 – 1st (my assumption)
2013 – NR (ESPN)
2014 – 4th (ESPN)
2015 – 3rd (ESPN) 2nd (PN)
2016 – 14th (ESPN) 11th (PN)
2017 – 2nd (ESPN) 3rd (PN)
2018 – 2nd (ESPN) 3rd (PN)
2019 – NR (ESPN) NR (PN)
2020 – 2nd (ESPN) 1st (PN)
Big East FF Appearances During this Time: 3 (UConn, Notre Dame, Louisville)
AAC FF Appearances During this Time: 6 (UConn 6x)

Louisville Class Rankings
2013 – NR (ESPN)
2014 – 8th (ESPN)
2015 – 2nd (ESPN) 1st (PN)
2016 – 6th (ESPN) 6th (PN)
2017 – 4th (ESPN) 6th (PN)
2018 – 15th (ESPN) 22nd (PN)
2019 – 15th (ESPN) 7th (PN)
2020 – 5th (ESPN) 3rd (PN)
ACC FF Appearances during this time: 7 [only 4 during this classes time] (Notre Dame 4x, Maryland 1x, Syracuse 1x, Louisville 1x)
 
CocoHusky said:
The buzz on Pissott is that she can definitely stroke it and is vey basketball savvy and in the mold of many Jersey Shore kids. There is a little bit of surprise that she committed to the Lady Vols this early. The last Philly Belle to land in Knoxville was Jannah Tucker in 2013. I've written about Tucker on the BY before. Tucker was on a Philly Belles team with Stewie and Brittney Sykes. I was privy to many of those Belles practices during which Tucker was the best player in the Gym by a long shot.
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The early commitment caught me by surprise, as well, particularly given that she was just starting to get more exposure during her initial season of playing with the Belles. Figured she might want to get some more exposure over the course of this year.

She played on an excellent RBC team which had good teamwork and benefitted from playing with 6'5" Ally Carman, who was a paint monster. She'd sit in there and draw a lot of attention. Pissott would make them pay if she had any space.
 
Recruiting class rankings depend in part on the size of the class. That's not always the best indicator of how much the class helps the program. If you get three great players, that may help more than six very good players, especially in today's climate where some of the six will soon transfer out to get more playing time.
 
DaBball said:
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Lester & UCONN
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CocoHusky said:
The buzz on Pissott is that she can definitely stroke it and is vey basketball savvy and in the mold of many Jersey Shore kids. There is a little bit of surprise that she committed to the Lady Vols this early. The last Philly Belle to land in Knoxville was Jannah Tucker in 2013. I've written about Tucker on the BY before. Tucker was on a Philly Belles team with Stewie and Brittney Sykes. I was privy to many of those Belles practices during which Tucker was the best player in the Gym by a long shot.
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What happened to Tucker? Did she play college ball and if so, where?
 
donalddoowop said:
What happened to Tucker? Did she play college ball and if so, where?
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She transferred from TN to Villanova. She was never the same player after her boyfriend abused her before she arrived at TN.
www.inquirer.com

Villanova basketball player Jannah Tucker overcame a nightmare and kept playing

Jannah Tucker, a Baltimore native, survived a domestic violence ordeal that sent her former boyfriend to prison. Now she's asking the NCAA for an extra year of eligibility to play at Villanova.
www.inquirer.com www.inquirer.com
 
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CocoHusky said:
She transferred from TN to Villanova. She was never the same player after her boyfriend abused her before she arrived at TN.
www.inquirer.com

Villanova basketball player Jannah Tucker overcame a nightmare and kept playing

Jannah Tucker, a Baltimore native, survived a domestic violence ordeal that sent her former boyfriend to prison. Now she's asking the NCAA for an extra year of eligibility to play at Villanova.
www.inquirer.com www.inquirer.com
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Thank you Coco. That was an interesting but sad story. She is really a very tough woman to survive what she went through. Just thinking how good she might have been is enough to keep her down but, it did not.
 
donalddoowop said:
Thank you Coco. That was an interesting but sad story. She is really a very tough woman to survive what she went through. Just thinking how good she might have been is enough to keep her down but, it did not.
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Tucker seems like she's been around forever. She was in the 2013 class. I hope she gets her waiver.
 
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nwhoopfan said:
This conversation is really jumping around (that's NEVER happened before on a message board :rolleyes:). Close has been hands down much better than Olivier at UCLA, that was my starting point. Her not winning a Championship is duly noted, but does not distinguish her from more than 300 other coaches in D1 in that regard.
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I doubt any UCLA fans or wbb fans would contest that Close is a level better than Olivier, who is now unemployed after underachieving at UNLV. But it is factual that she has never won the conference, nor the conference tournament. In fact, a Close coached team never even made the finals, whereas Olivier's team won the tournament and also tied for first in the conference. But look past the #1 team and look at the rankings of her other recruits. She has had a history of 4 and 5 star players until the past few seasons. For a long time, the benchmark of a UCLA wbb was can they beat Stanford. Olivier did it at the tournament and even though it was a fluke, she saved her job for a few more seasons.
 
WestsideWaltz said:
I doubt any UCLA fans or wbb fans would contest that Close is a level better than Olivier, who is now unemployed after underachieving at UNLV. But it is factual that she has never won the conference, nor the conference tournament. In fact, a Close coached team never even made the finals, whereas Olivier's team won the tournament and also tied for first in the conference. But look past the #1 team and look at the rankings of her other recruits. She has had a history of 4 and 5 star players until the past few seasons. For a long time, the benchmark of a UCLA wbb was can they beat Stanford. Olivier did it at the tournament and even though it was a fluke, she saved her job for a few more seasons.
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I think people over-fixate on the ranking of a single class in evaluating Close's results and tagging her with the underachiever label. I don't think she's a great coach or a horrible coach; I've seen better and I've seen worse.

First of all, would the 2014 class have even been ranked #1 if Caldwell had been subtracted from the equation? Food for thought.

Just as important as one strong recruiting class is how well you recruit around it, and the recruiting in the surrounding years was simply not very good. That's the difference between being a top 8 or top 16 type team and a Final Four team. I believe Fields and Burke were the only recruits within two years before or after the 2014 class who materialized into strong impact players. That's just not enough if the expectation is to win titles.
 
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