O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware | Page 8 | The Boneyard

O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware

Status
Not open for further replies.
But if he doesn't willingly turn over his phone does it imply that he has something to hide?
Probably, but not text messages he had sent to the 2 equipment guys. They got their cell phones, so anything Brady would have sent to them, they'd already have. So there's nothing to hide there. I imagine it was more in the order of text messages about say the idiocy of the NFL and/or Goodell that Brady didn't want out in the public.
 
Since the whole basis of the Wells conclusions is based on their research being unable to find atmospheric conditions to explain the different PSI readings, maybe Kraft should spend a little of his money on another 'expert' firm to prove that atmospheric conditions can explain all of the variations in PSI readings - or just pay Exponent more money than the NFL paid them to revisit the issue!!!
He has - a nobel prize winning chemist:

http://wellsreportcontext.com/mackinnons-scientific-conclusion/
 
Not at all. He could simply be trying to protect the privacy of others. And public opinion should play absolutely no part in this investigation.

There is NFL precedent for punishing a player for "not cooperating". Favre was fined $50K for not turning over text messages under league rules. I would have no problem with a similar punishment for Brady, but the suspension/fine and loss of draft picks is way beyond what was has proven even using the "preponderance of evidence" standard.

In fact, as I've pointed out in other posts, if Anderson in fact used the logo gauge, as he claimed, and which Wells discarded as incorrect with utterly no basis to do so, there's no evidence that the pressure loss was beyond what the Ideal Gas Law would predict. In other words, not only did Brady/McNally/Jastremski not orchestrate/participate in removing air, it never happened.

This question was not about Brady, it was about the train aviator.
 
Other sports experts on ESPN today said no major sports person would or should ever turn over their phone....to the NFL...we are talking about air in footballs here folks--get a grip!

My question was not about Brady, it was about the aviator on the train that derailed in Philly. If he refuses to turn over his cell phone records right before the crash does that give the impression that he has something to hide?
 
But if he doesn't willingly turn over his phone does it imply that he has something to hide? That would be the public opinion if he doesn't cooperate fully.
Or does it simply mean he was complying with the NFLPA's saying he shouldn't turn them over.
 
.-.
Or does it simply mean he was complying with the NFLPA's saying he shouldn't turn them over.

Them he followed bad advise, IMO. He could have turned over his phone records and proven that there was nothing to hide.
 
Them he followed bad advise, IMO. He could have turned over his phone records and proven that there was nothing to hide.

And then every other player ever involved in an investigation would be presented with precedence of Tom having done so - which is why unions try to control how especially their star players respond to issues like this.

It is similar to what happens with other things like radar guns - when they were first introduced they were not immediately accepted in court. The manufactures had to defend their accuracy in numerous cases until 'legal precedence' could be established, and they are now 'accepted', though a good lawyer can challenge the 'maintenance' and 'training' of the operators and still get the readings thrown out.
 
This bit about McNally being called "the deflator" because he was trying to lose weight -- good grief. I hope that lawyer didn't strain something clutching at straws.

At least both sides have hired quality bs artists.
If you actually read the full rebuttal their is an actual text message that uses 'deflate' in exactly this context between the two.
 
.-.
Not at all. He could simply be trying to protect the privacy of others. And public opinion should play absolutely no part in this investigation.

There is NFL precedent for punishing a player for "not cooperating". Favre was fined $50K for not turning over text messages under league rules. I would have no problem with a similar punishment for Brady, but the suspension/fine and loss of draft picks is way beyond what was has proven even using the "preponderance of evidence" standard.

In fact, as I've pointed out in other posts, if Anderson in fact used the logo gauge, as he claimed, and which Wells discarded as incorrect with utterly no basis to do so, there's no evidence that the pressure loss was beyond what the Ideal Gas Law would predict. In other words, not only did Brady/McNally/Jastremski not orchestrate/participate in removing air, it never happened.

Goodell will rule on the appeal! The NFL sycophants will say he's allowed to, but come on! If they were SO sure of their case, they wouldn't be doing this!
 
This question was not about Brady, it was about the train aviator.

Sorry, my bad.

However, that doesn't fundamentally alter my earlier post. You should never voluntarily cooperate in a situation where you're a potential suspect without legal counsel.

Allow me tell a story that happened to the child of a neighbor several years ago. The child, let's call him/her C, was a jr. in high school with aspirations of attending one of the military academies. C was an honor student who had never been in any trouble. I was home one afternoon when the police arrived at C's house after school. Knowing that C's parents were at work I wondered over to see what was up. I was promptly approached by a cop and ordered to remain on the sidewalk while his partner went to the door. I heard the cop at the door ask C if he could examine C's cell phone. I attempted to intervene to tell C not to do so and was swiftly threatened with arrest. C retrieved the cell and handed it the cop who began "fat fingering" it.
It turned out that a bomb threat had been called into the high school from that cell phone. C was arrested and the local DA announced that C would be charged as an adult and facing 5 years in federal prison. C's teacher came forward to claim that C had been in the lab at the and couldn't possibly have made the call, but neither the DA or C had a slam dunk case either way. The DA finally offered a plea deal that allowed C to plead nolo contender, which resulted in probation, but C lost any chance to attend the military academy. A few months later a few students came forward to report that another individual, I'll call them J, who had been released from juvenile detention only a week prior to the bomb threat, had confessed to them that he had made the call and C had taken the fall. I explained to these fellow students that he had simply been walking by the classroom, noticed that it was empty, but spotted several backpacks, including C's. Upon spying C's cell, J simply saw a crime of opportunity and called in the bomb threat. Sadly, the DA and police having already 'solved' the case refused to take any action.
The moral of the story is don't cooperate without the advice of legal counsel. If C had refused to provide their cell it's possible that DNA evidence could have revealed the fact that someone else had used the phone.
And yes, this a true story that happened to a high school friend of my son.
I'm traveling and typing this on my phone so forgive the typos.
 
Goodell will rule on the appeal! The NFL sycophants will say he's allowed to, but come on! If they were SO sure of their case, they wouldn't be doing this!

Judge, jury and executioner. Goodell is a joke. If he upholds the original penalty Brady should file a lawsuit against Goodell and the NFL.
 
Judge, jury and executioner. Goodell is a joke. If he upholds the original penalty Brady should file a lawsuit against Goodell and the NFL.
are you a Patriots fan?
 
Judge, jury and executioner. Goodell is a joke. If he upholds the original penalty Brady should file a lawsuit against Goodell and the NFL.
I can't believe some ESPN reporters are making a big deal over the one employee saying he went to take a leak and there was no urinal in the room. Does this preclude his using a toilet in that room to take a leak? It would take longer. I think Brady should take trump's advise and sue the NFL for $250,000,000. In the beginning I sympathized with goodell over the position he found himself in. Now it seems clear this isn't an objective exercise. I'm a long suffering raider fan who is still miffed over the tuck rule. I have no love for the pats, but players like Richard Sherman egged goodell on saying nothing would be done& now if he accepts anderson's original comment about the guage & reverses it he's a laughing stock. How doesn't Brady sue?
 
Them he followed bad advise, IMO. He could have turned over his phone records and proven that there was nothing to hide.
When you have union representation you follow their advice.
 
.-.
243-page Wells report is out concluding Patriots "probably" altered footballs.

th
 
Them he followed bad advise, IMO. He could have turned over his phone records and proven that there was nothing to hide.
Excuse me, but he has a right to privacy and it is arrogant for you or any of us to decide that we know anything about him or that any situation could be cleared up and his use of a private phone.
 
Interesting situation - if Goodell had not taken the appeal, he would pretty much be admitting that he cannot be objective in any appeal situation and setting serious precedent for every player to demand an 'independent arbitrator'. But having stepped in, he is in an absolute no win situation - anything short of him reducing the penalty to the $50,000 refusal to turn over the phone fine with no suspension and a basic admission that the Wells report was a hatchet job on top of general NFL incompetence at the AFC championship game, will result in Brady taking this to a court to force a neutral arbitrator or a court ruling. And if he does cave to that extent he looks a complete incompetent, and the league offices look even worse than they do currently, and instead of having p'ed off one owner and franchise he will have pe'd off most of the other 31.

And any court or independent arbitrator is going to look at the Wells report and the rebuttal and toss the whole thing out. The science added to the completely inadequate equipment and operators of that equipment just doesn't stand up.
 
Interesting slant on the Patriots 20,000 word rebuttal. There is a hole in that donut. Robert Kraft came down like a ton of bricks on the Deflator and his cohort. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/one-problem-patriots-20-000-194607455.html
Well - they do text back and forth about the theft of equipment from the Patriots store rooms, etc. And I would not be surprised if this was also the action of a team trying to 'preempt' the league to show good faith. In fact the wording is pretty interesting in that while the Patriots do the suspension, the league is in charge of when and if they return to duties and what those duties will entail.

And ... if the team was trying to 'cover-up' and 'keep silent' two major players in a conspiracy, one would think suspending them without pay would be a really, really, really bad idea.
 
are you a Patriots fan?

I am, but I would have thought that was obvious.

I am however a bigger fan of due process, fairness and conclusions based on fact, none of which are evident in the Wells Report.
 
.-.
Excuse me, but he has a right to privacy and it is arrogant for you or any of us to decide that we know anything about him or that any situation could be cleared up and his use of a private phone.

Anyone with any common sense should be able to recognize that by not providing all supporting data to prove his innocence that he is giving the impression that he has something to hide.
 
If you actually read the full rebuttal their is an actual text message that uses 'deflate' in exactly this context between the two.

1) There is no chance I'm reading the full rebuttal
2) I did see the other "deflate" text - but I remain unconvinced that "the deflator" was about weight loss. Could be wrong though, certainly have been many times before.
 
Interesting situation - if Goodell had not taken the appeal, he would pretty much be admitting that he cannot be objective in any appeal situation and setting serious precedent for every player to demand an 'independent arbitrator'. But having stepped in, he is in an absolute no win situation - anything short of him reducing the penalty to the $50,000 refusal to turn over the phone fine with no suspension and a basic admission that the Wells report was a hatchet job on top of general NFL incompetence at the AFC championship game, will result in Brady taking this to a court to force a neutral arbitrator or a court ruling. And if he does cave to that extent he looks a complete incompetent, and the league offices look even worse than they do currently, and instead of having p'ed off one owner and franchise he will have pe'd off most of the other 31.

And any court or independent arbitrator is going to look at the Wells report and the rebuttal and toss the whole thing out. The science added to the completely inadequate equipment and operators of that equipment just doesn't stand up.
Brady's reputation has been SO destroyed even if goodell lowers the penalty
Anyone with any common sense should be able to recognize that by not providing all supporting data to prove his innocence that he is giving the impression that he has something to hide.
Anyone with any common sense should be able to recognize that by not providing all supporting data to prove his innocence that he is giving the impression that he has something to hide.
Do you remember when Detroit pitcher Justin Verlander's phone was hacked? His private personal photos of Kate Upton and other women were plastered all over the Internet. Given the NFL offices leaks, what if Giselle sent Tom some provocative photos of herself when he was out of town or when she was away doing photo shoots? This is speculation, but Jennifer Lawrence's private photos were hacked as well. Look at this from Brady's point of view. Someone in the NFL office hated him enough to leak this story super bowl week. I'd love to know who leaked it and why? Did that person bet on Seattle heavily and hoped Brady would have a bad super bowl? And Brady is supposed to turn over his phone to these people and trust them not to leak his private thoughts or photos?
 
Boy, the league office and the Commissioner are looking worse and worse:
https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/PDFs/Media Resources/Brady_Appeal_Letter.pdf

Don't even know the rules of the CBA in regard to the imposition of discipline.

My biggest take away from this whole four month saga is that for a multi-billion dollar operation, the NFL is run by a bunch of keystone cops. They leak like a sieve, and operate like amateur hour, and get beaten to a pulp by the NFLPA every time they are confronted.
 
Last edited:
Anyone with any common sense should be able to recognize that by not providing all supporting data to prove his innocence that he is giving the impression that he has something to hide.
Well if there is nothing on his phone that doesn't in itself "prove his innocence". Particularly with an investigator with an agenda. He had nothing to gain by turning it over. He may (may) have nothing to lose, but he had nothing to gain by turning it over.
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,008
Messages
4,549,107
Members
10,431
Latest member
TeganK


Top Bottom