O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware

[triaddukefan]

Ahem.

Throw, not through.

I would blame it on my cell phone..... but i was on the computer

 

[toadfoot]

What he does have to gain is the court of public opinion, which affects his legacy in the game of football. If he is willing to risk that, so be it...it is his right.

Oh please! The Patriots could produce 100% ironclad proof that the footballs were not tampered with and 85% of all football fans would still insist they had deliberately deflated them.

This entire saga has never been about cheating. It's about the fact that the Patriots have been SuperBowl contenders for 15 straight years and fans of the 31 teams are sick of it. This is about envy and jealousy.

 

[NewCorn]

How is the league going to confirm they have all the relevant texts without looking at Brady's phone? And who determines what may or may not be relevant? Do they read his texts to his wife on the assumption he may have spoken to her about it? At this point I don't believe anything Ted Wells says. His manipulation of Anderson's testimony about which gauge he used tells me all I need to know about Wells.

This business of reading Brady's text to his wife is a red herring. The investigator offered to accept Brady's lawyers' selection of the texts that pertained to the deflation matter. Brady was not asked to turn over his cell phone. Most innocent people would jump at such a deal.

 

[toadfoot]

1) There is no chance I'm reading the full rebuttal
2) I did see the other "deflate" text - but I remain unconvinced that "the deflator" was about weight loss. Could be wrong though, certainly have been many times before.

I find both your comments to be quite telling. A person could reasonably infer that your refusal to read the rebuttal indicates that you strongly suspect you'd be forced to admit that the Wells report was utter trash, which it was. Secondly, I've seen a fair amount of snickering related to the 'deflator' as a weight loss reference, but precious little that rebuts the core points of the rebuttal.

 

[easttexastrash]

How is the league going to confirm they have all the relevant texts without looking at Brady's phone? And who determines what may or may not be relevant? Do they read his texts to his wife on the assumption he may have spoken to her about it? At this point I don't believe anything Ted Wells says. His manipulation of Anderson's testimony about which gauge he used tells me all I need to know about Wells.

Have you never seen a detailed log of phone records? The items to the equipment guys would be presented. Not brain surgery.

 

[easttexastrash]

Ahem.

Flair, not flare.

Who cairs. I wandered about that when I types it but was two lazy to Czech.

 

[malevocalist#]

Them he followed bad advise, IMO. He could have turned over his phone records and proven that there was nothing to hide.

Huh, what? Are you listening at all? If you needed my phone to know my conversation with the other guy it makes no sense for me to turn over my phone. Because whatever you need to know, you already know by virtue of confiscating the other guy's phone.

And that tells me (YOU AIN'T GOT NOTHING!) Thus you aint getting nothing.

 

[Uhuru]

Oh please! The Patriots could produce 100% ironclad proof that the footballs were not tampered with and 85% of all football fans would still insist they had deliberately deflated them.

This entire saga has never been about cheating. It's about the fact that the Patriots have been SuperBowl contenders for 15 straight years and fans of the 31 teams are sick of it. This is about envy and jealousy.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Maybe for the majority of NFL teams, not for the Steelers. who have a total of 6 Super Bowl trophies. Or for the Niners and Cowboys, who have 5. Or the Packers and Giants who have as many as the Cheaters.

I'll admit it. I can't stand the Cheaters. Let them win ONE untainted Super Bowl and I'll give them their due. They have good coaches and players who could win one without cheating, but they choose not to do so. They appear to be very insecure and not confident that they can win on a level playing field.

I'm glad the image is tarnished. It is well-deserved.

 

[easttexastrash]

Huh, what? Are you listening at all? If you needed my phone to know my conversation with the other guy it makes no sense for me to turn over my phone. Because whatever you need to know, you already know by virtue of confiscating the other guy's phone.

And that tells me (YOU AIN'T GOT NOTHING!) Thus you aint getting nothing.

How do we know that the other guys have not already deleted their texts? Did that ever cross your mind?

 

[easttexastrash]

Don't misinterpret my thoughts on "deflategate" as a reflection of my thoughts on Brady as a QB. I think he is one of the best QBs in NFL history and did not win by cheating. However, that does not change my mind that he was involved in deflating the balls. I just wish that he had cooperated fully.

Why did the Pats suspend the equipment guys with no pay? They are also innocent, right?

 

[UcMiami]

Don't misinterpret my thoughts on "deflategate" as a reflection of my thoughts on Brady as a QB. I think he is one of the best QBs in NFL history and did not win by cheating. However, that does not change my mind that he was involved in deflating the balls. I just wish that he had cooperated fully.

Why did the Pats suspend the equipment guys with no pay? They are also innocent, right?

On the equipment guys - I suspect it falls under the same guise as 'self reporting' and imposing of discipline by colleges to 'preempt' the NCAA and show a 'cooperative' stance - and their reinstatement is actually now at the leagues pleasure and their duties are to be determined by the league - so it is part of the league 'punishment'. On top of that, it has come out from their texts they were stealing equipment behind their bosses backs.

As for the footballs - I really think the science proves that more probably than not no tampering occurred and if the NFL were to conduct field tests over the course of a whole season, they would find that the PSI measurements in many games played in cold/rainy/snowy weather varied even more than those in the AFC title game - its just that no one ever bothered to do so before. According to the leagues own findings there should have been a loss of around 1.2-1.5 PSI based just on temperature for balls taken from inside at 71 degrees to outside at 48 degrees - throw in a wide range of sideline storage and game play conditions as well as precipitation and the range of pressures will get much wider. Throw in $5 gauges and multiple operators of the gauges and no one will know what the actual starting pressures were based on the ending pressures.

 

[CL82]

This business of reading Brady's text to his wife is a red herring. The investigator offered to accept Brady's lawyers' selection of the texts that pertained to the deflation matter. Brady was not asked to turn over his cell phone. Most innocent people would jump at such a deal.

I wondered if any would point this out. That is a pretty decent accommodation. I suspect, but do not know, that the larger principal of setting a precedent for players turning over their personal records was the issue. I further suspect that players union may have hand in it. But there are a lot of other reasons why he wouldn't turn the texts other than trying to hide an inculpating text. Since the investigators have to two ball boys phones, we know that Brady wasn't hiding a text to them.

 

[easttexastrash]

On the equipment guys - I suspect it falls under the same guise as 'self reporting' and imposing of discipline by colleges to 'preempt' the NCAA and show a 'cooperative' stance - and their reinstatement is actually now at the leagues pleasure and their duties are to be determined by the league - so it is part of the league 'punishment'. On top of that, it has come out from their texts they were stealing equipment behind their bosses backs.

As for the footballs - I really think the science proves that more probably than not no tampering occurred and if the NFL were to conduct field tests over the course of a whole season, they would find that the PSI measurements in many games played in cold/rainy/snowy weather varied even more than those in the AFC title game - its just that no one ever bothered to do so before. According to the leagues own findings there should have been a loss of around 1.2-1.5 PSI based just on temperature for balls taken from inside at 71 degrees to outside at 48 degrees - throw in a wide range of sideline storage and game play conditions as well as precipitation and the range of pressures will get much wider. Throw in $5 gauges and multiple operators of the gauges and no one will know what the actual starting pressures were based on the ending pressures.

Yes...science did it, not the deflator.

 

[easttexastrash]

I wondered if any would point this out. That is a pretty decent accommodation. I suspect, but do not know, that the larger principal of setting a precedent for players turning over their personal records was the issue. I further suspect that players union may have hand in it. But there are a lot of other reasons why he wouldn't turn the texts other than trying to hide an inculpating text. Since the investigators have to two ball boys phones, we know that Brady wasn't hiding a text to them.

Once again, the two equipment guys may have deleted the text messages, however, by pulling the phone records it was reported that the activity between them and Brady spiked at the time that the question of inflation was presented to the officials. At least that is the information that I have read. Correct me if this is wrong.

 

[Icebear]

This business of reading Brady's text to his wife is a red herring. The investigator offered to accept Brady's lawyers' selection of the texts that pertained to the deflation matter. Brady was not asked to turn over his cell phone. Most innocent people would jump at such a deal.

Again the NFLPA gave advice of counsel to not do this.

 

[Icebear]

I further suspect that players union may have hand in it.

They did.

 

[UcMiami]

Yes...science did it, not the deflator.

That sure seems more likely to me than that a HOF QB would be relying on a part time employee (he is at the facility for like 12 days a year - 8 home games, 2 preseason games, and maybe a couple of home playoff games) - to duck with the footballs he is going to use in a game. And a part time employee who based on his texts is a bit of an idiot. And his nickname is actually Bird I gather, not the deflator - a term used by him once in the middle of the off-season. You can buy the cool aid the Wells report is trying to sell, but I am not.

 

[toadfoot]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Maybe for the majority of NFL teams, not for the Steelers. who have a total of 6 Super Bowl trophies. Or for the Niners and Cowboys, who have 5. Or the Packers and Giants who have as many as the Cheaters.

I'll admit it. I can't stand the Cheaters. Let them win ONE untainted Super Bowl and I'll give them their due. They have good coaches and players who could win one without cheating, but they choose not to do so. They appear to be very insecure and not confident that they can win on a level playing field.

I'm glad the image is tarnished. It is well-deserved.

Ha ha! Good one. You mean the 70's Steelers that are largely credited with introducing steroid use into the NFL. The same Steeler team that was punished for holding illegal practices. Those Steelers.

I dare you to provide any credible evidence that the Patriots Super Bowl wins were tainted.

 

[toadfoot]

That sure seems more likely to me than that a HOF QB would be relying on a part time employee (he is at the facility for like 12 days a year - 8 home games, 2 preseason games, and maybe a couple of home playoff games) - to duck with the footballs he is going to use in a game. And a part time employee who based on his texts is a bit of an idiot. And his nickname is actually Bird I gather, not the deflator - a term used by him once in the middle of the off-season. You can buy the cool aid the Wells report is trying to sell, but I am not.

I've concluded that some people, easttexastrash, Uhuru, etc. could be presented with 100% positive proof that the Patriots are completely innocent and it wouldn't matter. They'd still insist the Patriots cheated. It's a fact of sports that people will root for an underdog, but once they continue to win fans turn on them.

 

[Uhuru]

Ha ha! Good one. You mean the 70's Steelers that are largely credited with introducing steroid use into the NFL. The same Steeler team that was punished for holding illegal practices. Those Steelers.

I dare you to provide any credible evidence that the Patriots Super Bowl wins were tainted.

Hey, toad. You know there's no evidence from Spygate because Goodell destroyed all the Cheaters' tapes.

Anyway, I'm sure there was nothing incriminating on them. Oh wait, I just remembered - $500,000 fine for Bellycheat, $250,000 fine for the Cheaters, and loss of a 1st round pick. Apologies from Graft and Bellycheat. Yeah, probably nothing there.

 

[easttexastrash]

I've concluded that some people, easttexastrash, Uhuru, etc. could be presented with 100% positive proof that the Patriots are completely innocent and it wouldn't matter. They'd still insist the Patriots cheated. It's a fact of sports that people will root for an underdog, but once they continue to win fans turn on them.

I'm not rooting against the Pats. I think what they've done is incredible and highly impressive and some of the best football I've ever seen. I just think Brady played a role in having the balls under inflated. That doesn't mean I am rooting against them any more than any other team not from Dallas or Denver. I was yelling for the Pats to win the Super Bowl because I cannot stand Pete Carroll and Richarf Sherman. The look on Sherman's face after that late-game TO was priceless.

 

[toadfoot]

I'm not rooting against the Pats. I think what they've done is incredible and highly impressive and some of the best football I've ever seen. I just think Brady played a role in having the balls under inflated. That doesn't mean I am rooting against them any more than any other team not from Dallas or Denver. I was yelling for the Pats to win the Super Bowl because I cannot stand Pete Carroll and Richarf Sherman. The look on Sherman's face after that late-game TO was priceless.

But the entire premise of Wells report is based on the investigator's conclusion that Anderson's recollection about which gauge he used was incorrect, despite the fact that his recollection was quite clear and specific, "the gauge with the long crooked needle".

If Anderson's memory is correct the Ideal Gas Law fully and completely explains the halftime measurements. That renders moot everything else. In other words you can't prosecute someone for robbing a bank if the bank wasn't robbed.

 

[toadfoot]

Hey, toad. You know there's no evidence from Spygate because Goodell destroyed all the Cheaters' tapes.

Anyway, I'm sure there was nothing incriminating on them. Oh wait, I just remembered - $500,000 fine for Bellycheat, $250,000 fine for the Cheaters, and loss of a 1st round pick. Apologies from Graft and Bellycheat. Yeah, probably nothing there.

First of all, it's Mr. toadfoot to you.

Secondly, I said evidence that taints their SuperBowl wins. Spygate had absolutely nothing to with any of their victories. You, like most football fans have no clue what Spygate was about.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/article...pygate-punishing-success-and-promoting-parity

I don't really expect you to read this because it will destroy the fantasy you've created surrounding the Patriots sustained success in an era where the NFL has established rules intended to promote parity. The bottom line is that Spygate was a very minor technical violation of a Walt Anderson memo that actually misstated NFL rules. My personal opinion is that Kraft didn't fight the punishment in some misguided notion that it would harm the league's image to so. I also suspect that in hindsight he regrets that decision, which is why he may be prepared to take the current case to court if necessary.

 

[easttexastrash]

But the entire premise of Wells report is based on the investigator's conclusion that Anderson's recollection about which gauge he used was incorrect, despite the fact that his recollection was quite clear and specific, "the gauge with the long crooked needle".

If Anderson's memory is correct the Ideal Gas Law fully and completely explains the halftime measurements. That renders moot everything else. In other words you can't prosecute someone for robbing a bank if the bank wasn't robbed.

And you keep trying...I respect your devotion to Brady and the Pats.

 

[CL82]

And you keep trying...I respect your devotion to Brady and the Pats.

Just curious, precisely what in his post do you disagree with?