O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware

[easttexastrash]

If anyone has to try this hard to prove they are innocent, they probably aren't.

 

[toadfoot]

This franchise has a history of cheating. First it was illegal filming of opponent's practices. Then it was illegal stealing of defensive signals. Now it's illegal footballs.

The NFL is more interested in protecting the golden boy image of a future hall of famer (and his marketability) than they are of protecting the integrity of the game. From one side of their face they suspend cheating steroid users while out of the other side they say that cheating is rewarded as long as you don't get caught. The rings they get for 2015 should have zircons instead of real diamonds.


The hypocrisy in the NFL is obvious. If you are an owner you can get caught with a bag of illegally obtained drugs and walk away without charges and continue to own your team, but smoke a joint as a player and it's bye bye career.

Please provide links to your allegation of illegally filming an opponent's practice. The only such allegation I've ever heard about was the story originally published by the Boston Herald alleging that the Patriots filmed the Rams walk thru before the SuperBowl. No evidence of said filming was ever produced and the Herald had to retract the story.

It's not illegal to steal defensive signals. Never has been.

As for the current issue, there's zero evidence that anyone deliberately removed air from the footballs prior to the AFC Championship game. Lot's of speculation and innuendo, but no evidence.

 

[Zorro]

That's true but sad. There was a time when sportsmanship meant fair play. Sports were used by society to promote fairness and build character. Not anymore. It's now all about winning at any cost. Interesting that colleges seem to have been promoting negative aspects of sports for quite some time. Rivals are not seen as competition but as the enemy, who is continued to be hated not just after the game is over but also long after graduation. This creates a pattern for selective vilification in-order to justify an institutionally justified prejudice towards a select group of people. Right being loyal to your school ( or group) justifies bigotry. That is the foundation for all bias and bigotry but it's ok when done in the context of the college environment. Just a carry over from the Aristocratic Class distinctive culture which was promoted through the English school system. Americans thought they had left Class distinctions behind them, but it was kept alive and well in our institutions of higher learning. This creates the idea of having different standards for how we treat our friends and all others - especially our enemies. Win at any cost when playing our rivals.

Well, St. Vincent of Lombardy DID share with us that "winning is the ONLY thing, no?

 

[toadfoot]

Nice try. You guys really are unbelievable. What did Brady and Belichick and the Pats ever do to you? Were you dating Gisele or something?

Let's face it, 95% of all NFL fans are fans of teams not named the New England Patriots. The amount of misinformation I see posted on ESPN and other sites is really remarkable. I'd say at least 98% of ALL NFL fans, including Patriots fans, still do not understand what "Spygate" was about and I can't count the number of posts I've seen in the last week that cite the discredited Boston Herald story on filming the Rams walk thru as gospel.

The bottom line is that the bulk of the 95% who are not Patriots fans would love nothing more than to see the Patriots punished because they simply envy the Patriots success.

 

[toadfoot]

Atlanta piped crowd noise into the stadium and it cost them big time. New Orleans was punished severely for its bounty program. Ditto Browns GM for texting from stands to sideline. Brady and Belichek are next.

Due process? Signed away in the union/NFL contract.

In those cases there was incontrovertible evidence. No such evidence exists that anyone deliberately deflated the footballs. The Wells report says as much.

 

[toadfoot]

Had Brady fully cooperated with the investigation maybe I would feel different. But a person only refuses to cooperate if he has something to hide. He had the opportunity to eliminate all doubt and declined.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

You get the prize for the most foolish and naive post in this thread. If you should ever find yourself charged with a serious crime I implore you to NOT cooperate with the police under some misguided belief that doing so will help you.

 

[triaddukefan]

oh well...... justice has been served ....... only 4 games though ....

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Oh, come on. Sooner or later some one was going to com out with the truth about NFL quarterbacks and how they all like squishy balls! Heck, when they put their hands down there to get the snap they aren't saying hit with a big rock stud! From now on when you want to play with Mr. Squishy you have to pay of the locker room, your center, your wide outs, your not so wide outs, your running backs, your... well, golly gee, you just may have to play with a spec ball! Holy may I have an Amen.

 

[UcMiami]

If anyone has to try this hard to prove they are innocent, they probably aren't.

That sounds like the principles this great country was founded on!!!

Based on all the information available I am unconvinced that the patriots footballs were improperly deflated. But ...

I am sure that the NFL officials either lost one of the kicking balls or the lead official from whom we are to believe the original inflation number pre-game, inexplicably forgot to put his mark on one of six balls, and then used the unmarked ball to start the game.

I am sure that the official in charge of testing the inflation of footballs prior to the game had two uncalibrated gauges (neither of which has since been tested to determine accuracy) that read .5 psi different pressures (so around 30-50% of the disputed pressure of footballs in question.)

I am sure that one of the NFL employees working the sideline was fired for stealing game balls shortly after the game. And that another NFL employee went into the referee's room, removed the unmarked football that had been 'retired' and tried to get it reintroduced into the game.

I am sure that four NFL employees (two alternate officials and two executives) were unable to accurately measure the inflation of 24 balls in 15 minutes during halftime yet believe a part time employee could accurately release a controlled amount of air from 12 balls in 1.5 minutes. And that this issue was of such importance that they failed to test all 24 footballs (and retain them) after the game.

I am sure that there is no scientific study of the effects of temperature and weather that has been conducted in real life situations, and that every game played in the NFL when the temperature was below 32 degrees has been played with at least some footballs that were under inflated.

I am sure that if another scientific lab were to perform similar studies on inflation in footballs, they would come up with different results based on variations on testing protocol. How different, I don't exactly know.

I know that people point to the greater range of inflation numbers for Patriots footballs as 'sinister' as if all twelve footballs were kept in the same environment during the game which is patently false. The footballs are rotated in and out of a game played in the rain - some may have been on the field for 20 minutes, some for zero minutes. And we only know about 4 of the Colts footballs, which based on their offensive ineptitude in the game were liked exposed to rain for significantly less time, and may never have left the ball bag.

I know that I have bitched and moaned to colleagues about other colleagues or bosses, including joking references to sabotage or other improper behavior that I have never carried out. The text messages involved here (and these are all the 'important' ones I presume) stretch over more than a year - seems pretty thin in that light.

Based on reading the report, an equally valid opening page could conclude that there is no clear evidence that balls were improperly deflated. That there are inconsistencies in inflation numbers, in gauges used to measure inflation, in procedures for handling footballs and that if these are important issues for the NFL, new procedures should be implemented including a procedure to test inflation and correct under inflation or over inflation at the half of every game based on the elements in play during the game. It is clear that Brady prefers a ball inflated to league minimum, but there is nothing to connect him to an attempt to introduce balls into play that were less than league minimums.

One glaring omission from this three month investigation is any contact with other officiating crews and locker rooms attendants to see if Anderson's claim of 'first time in 19 years' holds water. Presumably if this were a systematic practice of the Patriots, then every crew that worked a Patriots game would have experienced some attempt to gain access to the bag of footballs - if not, then it staggers the imagination to think the AFC title game was when they would trot this out for the first time.

 

[Orangutan]

Nor is it a witch hunt.

As the report says:
"In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."

He walks.

The full quote was - "In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain. However, based on all of the information provided to us, particularly regarding the timing and sequencing of the measurements conducted by the game officials at halftime, and on our testing and analyses, we conclude that within the range of game characteristics most likely to have occurred on Game Day, we have identified no set of credible environmental or physical factors that completely accounts for the additional loss in air pressure exhibited by the Patriots game balls as compared to the loss in air pressure exhibited by the Colts game balls measured during halftime of the AFC Championship Game."

Reads a little bit different in context. And that was just a footnote to the appendix with the scientific testing data in it.

The real conclusion was - "Based on the evidence developed in connection with the investigation and summarized in this Report, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the NFL Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate attempt to circumvent those rules."

That's lawyer for - "According to our report, you did it. Book 'em Roger!"

 

[easttexastrash]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

You get the prize for the most foolish and naive post in this thread. If you should ever find yourself charged with a serious crime I implore you to NOT cooperate with the police under some misguided belief that doing so will help you.

This is not a crime, it's cheating at a game. If he wanted to prove his innocence he had the chance. He chose to "pass" on that chance.

I'll take 4 games since he won't get to play against the Cowboys. His cheating benefits Dallas.

 

[easttexastrash]

Wife: "Honey, have you been texting with your ex?"
Husband: "Of course not."
Wife: "Then show me your phone."
Husband: "No."
Wife: "You're cheating, aren't you?"
Husband: "This is a sting operation."

See how that works.

 

[easttexastrash]

What nickname will he get? Tom Shady?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

What nickname will he get? Tom Shady?

I sorta favor off the top of my head... Tom Limp Ball.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Brady will not serve a 4 game suspension. Can't see him agreeing to this penalty, he will appeal and the NFL will all or portion of the appeal. May end up serving a 2 game suspension.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Brady will not serve a 4 game suspension. Can't see him agreeing to this penalty, he will appeal and the NFL will all or portion of the appeal. May end up serving a 2 game suspension.

It is possible it could get reduced by a game or two on appeal. No chance that he won't serve at least two games. Deserves more.

 

[Uhuru]

Why is everybody so upset to find out that Brady and the Patriots cheat? We already knew that. Move on, people.

 

[Wbbfan1]

This thread reminds me of a UConn vs Lady Vol thread. Lady Vols fans say Geno and UConn cheat, and UConn fans say no we don't. . Not going to convince either side that they're wrong.

 

[NewCorn]

This thread reminds me of a UConn vs Lady Vol thread. Lady Vols fans say Geno and UConn cheat, and UConn fans say no we don't. . Not going to convince either side that they're wrong.

"Footballs were intentionally deflated in an effort to provide a competitive advantage to Tom Brady after having been certified by the game officials as being in compliance with the playing rules." While we cannot be certain when the activity began, the evidence suggests that January 18th was not the first and only occasion when this occurred." __NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Troy Vincent

 

[j66kicker]

I'll take 4 games since he won't get to play against the Cowboys. His cheating benefits Dallas.

My son and I (Cowboys fans) were planning to meet up in Dallas for the Cowboys-Patriots game, which is the 4th game Brady would miss if his suspension holds up. I am also a Patriots fan (long story), so this this was a "showdown" game for letting my true colors come out (whatever they are). Now we are holding off making flight reservations pending Brady's appeal - hoping he gets it reduced.

 

[triaddukefan]

My son and I (Cowboys fans) were planning to meet up in Dallas for the Cowboys-Patriots game, which is the 4th game Brady would miss if his suspension holds up. I am also a Patriots fan (long story), so this this was a "showdown" game for letting my true colors come out (whatever they are). Now we are holding off making flight reservations pending Brady's appeal - hoping he gets it reduced.

You are a Cowboy fan, a Patriot fan.. and a UCONN WCBB fan too ? If you also root for the Yankees and either Kentucky or UNC MBB....... then you would have to be the most insufferable sports fan on planet earth

 

[j66kicker]

You are a Cowboy fan, a Patriot fan.. and a UCONN WCBB fan too ? If you also root for the Yankees and either Kentucky or UNC MBB.. then you would have to be the most insufferable sports fan on planet earth

I must be, then. Life-long Yankee fan. Growing up in Oklahoma is responsible for Yankees (no team of our own, Mickey Mantle was from OK - my baseball hero since I was 9), Cowboys (no team of our own, Cowboys were closest NFL team), and Patriots (Chuck Fairbanks' first coaching stop after Oklahoman).

My first "personal allegiance showdown game" was UCONN women (lived in CT 20 years) vs OU (my alma mater). Once the game started it was clear my heart was with UCONN (OU didn't even have a WBB program when I was there). Then I went to Okla vs UCONN mens game with another OU alum who lived in CT (UCONN was # 3 at the time, OU was #1). Again, we found ourselves rooting for UCONN from the beginning (they blew OK off the floor). For college football I have no mixed loyalties - Oklahoma all the way. Same for Yankees. But this Patriots-Cowboys thing has me conflicted

 

[Aluminny69]

"Footballs were intentionally deflated in an effort to provide a competitive advantage to Tom Brady after having been certified by the game officials as being in compliance with the playing rules." While we cannot be certain when the activity began, the evidence suggests that January 18th was not the first and only occasion when this occurred." __NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Troy Vincent

Ex-Jets and Retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake confessed in an interview that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," the ex-Jets QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the "Midday 180" show on Nashville's 104.5 The Zone. "Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard.

"Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat. So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Blake says that he'd order ball boys to let air out of his footballs just before the start of games during his entire NFL career, which included time with the Jets in 1992.

 

[j66kicker]

Ex-Jets and Retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake confessed in an interview that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," the ex-Jets QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the "Midday 180" show on Nashville's 104.5 The Zone. "Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard.

"Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat. So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Blake says that he'd order ball boys to let air out of his footballs just before the start of games during his entire NFL career, which included time with the Jets in 1992.

Like many teams had bounty programs, but Roger chose to pick on the Saints because of Sean Payton's defiant attitude

 

[zyron]

Ex-Jets and Retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake confessed in an interview that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," the ex-Jets QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the "Midday 180" show on Nashville's 104.5 The Zone. "Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard.

"Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat. So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Blake says that he'd order ball boys to let air out of his footballs just before the start of games during his entire NFL career, which included time with the Jets in 1992.

This means absolutely nothing. NFL changed the rules in 2006 (At Brady's and Manning's request) to let the teams prepare their own footballs. So this means nothing.

 

[Geno-ista]

25-30 plays? Not sure where you are getting this stuff?! And 'stealing signs' maybe, but he seems to be winning just as much in the last 6-7 years. Hard to figure.

I've decided that the reason the Colts footballs lost less pressure (presumably because we don't actually know where they started) is because the colts were illegally heating them on the sidelines, and their offense wasn't holding on to the ball long enough to allow them to get wet.

My life's work isn't keeping up with Beliceks cheating. I understood that he was taping all the last run through's /plays the teams do before right before game day. Using spies dressed like maintenance and custodians. It's their entire game plan- in the sequence that they hope to execute their offense. Before it was proven, I thought the the opponents already said it was as if the entire defense was waiting for them on most of their offensive plays. This stuff was proven already- weren't they penalized? But they don't overturn the score or the game. That is a significant difference in the % of air in the ball. Especially in the dead of winter when the properly inflated ball feels like a brick when attempting a catch. Even the partisans have to acknowledge they cheat a lot. End of story. I really like Brady and I think he shouldn't have lied.

 

[Geno-ista]

I'm hopeful that you don't serve on any juries. How many people are executed in Texas annually? With circumstantial evidence that most courts would throw out I hear "He didn't need to do this to win" as if it's a definitive fact based on text messages between two guys who didn't seem to like Brady much? You'd convict him and throw him to the wolves? If Texas juries are that apt to convict on that damning MAYBE and PROBABLY, how many innocent men might have wrongfully been put to death. I thought that there was a level of proof needed before you'd impune someone's reputation but evidently the NFL (and you) don't think so. I happen to think you'd need to know more. Have a smoking gun. Before you go after one of the most successful quarterbacks in the history of the NFL you should KNOW something, not think something. I know Ray Rice beat the hell out of his girlfriend, I don't think he might have. I don't need to think that the scumbag that is now on the Cowboy roster beat the snot out of his fiancée. I know! Until such time as the NFL knows, they should shut the hell up.

I don't think ET should have to get your anti south or Texas BS. They cheated- again! They have a long and reputable history of cheating and also of winning. Good for them. It's simple & obvious. You think the NFL wants to do a which hunt against one their most successful franchises in history? Lying and cheating are the same whether you are fron up north or the "Deep South" , Republican or Democrat!

 

[CL82]

The full quote was - "In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain. However, based on all of the information provided to us, particularly regarding the timing and sequencing of the measurements conducted by the game officials at halftime, and on our testing and analyses, we conclude that within the range of game characteristics most likely to have occurred on Game Day, we have identified no set of credible environmental or physical factors that completely accounts for the additional loss in air pressure exhibited by the Patriots game balls as compared to the loss in air pressure exhibited by the Colts game balls measured during halftime of the AFC Championship Game."

Reads a little bit different in context. And that was just a footnote to the appendix with the scientific testing data in it.

The real conclusion was - "Based on the evidence developed in connection with the investigation and summarized in this Report, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the NFL Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate attempt to circumvent those rules."

That's lawyer for - "According to our report, you did it. Book 'em Roger!"

Nope that's lawyer for we have no credible evidence so we are going to make a conclusion that justifies our fees, while still hedging enough that we can't be called on it.

 

[toadfoot]

This is not a crime, it's cheating at a game. If he wanted to prove his innocence he had the chance. He chose to "pass" on that chance.

I'll take 4 games since he won't get to play against the Cowboys. His cheating benefits Dallas.

Why am I not surprised the point of my post completely eluded you!

 

[toadfoot]

My life's work isn't keeping up with Beliceks cheating. I understood that he was taping all the last run through's /plays the teams do before right before game day. Using spies dressed like maintenance and custodians. It's their entire game plan- in the sequence that they hope to execute their offense. Before it was proven, I thought the the opponents already said it was as if the entire defense was waiting for them on most of their offensive plays. This stuff was proven already- weren't they penalized? But they don't overturn the score or the game. That is a significant difference in the % of air in the ball. Especially in the dead of winter when the properly inflated ball feels like a brick when attempting a catch. Even the partisans have to acknowledge they cheat a lot. End of story. I really like Brady and I think he shouldn't have lied.

Never happened. This was an unsubstantiated story first published by the Boston Herald and later retracted.