O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware

[easttexastrash]

Thank God we have you here with your inside information. Your insightful post really saved humanity for the ages. The Patriots seemed to do okay after their supposed deflated scandal broke, wouldn't you say???? Somehow without any more ability to CHEAT, they beat the snot out of the Colts in the second half, totally embarrassing them and then beat the big bad Seahawks. The only reason Brady was able to make an NFL roster was because of those danged underinflated balls, right????

That is what makes his actions so silly. He didn't need to do this to win but now he has tarnished his image forever.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Had Brady fully cooperated with the investigation maybe I would feel different. But a person only refuses to cooperate if he has something to hide. He had the opportunity to eliminate all doubt and declined.

Yeah, I'd bend over backwards for all the trolls. I've seen many men hanged by vehemently arguing their innocence. After all he's accomplished, it's humiliating to be dealing with accusations like this. If underinflated balls were that big a benefit, why do some quarterbacks want the highest pressure allowed by the NFL????? They want to underperform????? They want to make it harder for their receivers to catch the ball. It's all bullcrap and the league seems to be willing to do anything to impune the Patriots. I think this investigation was the biggest bunch of bullcrap that's been done in forever. Millions of dollars wasted for what, a possibility, a maybe, a might?????

 

[easttexastrash]

Wasn't the NFL using one of those super duper sophisticated pressure measuring devices they got at True Value Hardware, three for $6.95???? Evidently despite their major investment, they must have got a faulty device. Who would have thunk???? The NFL is a bigger joke by the day! People who want to rip apart the big bad Patriots are just loving this, aren't they? The Colts somehow figure by bringing out this HORRENDOUS scandal, they'll be forgiven for being abused by the Patriots multiple times by ridiculous scores and now everyone knows why. The underinflated balls somehow won the Patriots how many games under Bellichick and Brady??? How many NFL coaches and players and analysts were fooled into actually thinking Brady had any ability at all and felt that somehow Bellechick had a brain. It was all mirrors and thankfully the Colts have exposed these phonies to the world. God save the Queen!

Extra question marks don't help make your point more valid.

I don't think the deflated balls made a difference as NE was clearly the best team. However, what is does is make people wonder how the Pats have cheated in other ways that nobody knows about. This will forever tarnish Brady and the Pats, which is unfortunate .

 

[easttexastrash]

Yeah, I'd bend over backwards for all the trolls. I've seen many men hanged by vehemently arguing their innocence. After all he's accomplished, it's humiliating to be dealing with accusations like this. If underinflated balls were that big a benefit, why do some quarterbacks want the highest pressure allowed by the NFL????? They want to underperform????? They want to make it harder for their receivers to catch the ball. It's all bullcrap and the league seems to be willing to do anything to impune the Patriots. I think this investigation was the biggest bunch of bullcrap that's been done in forever. Millions of dollars wasted for what, a possibility, a maybe, a might?????

What does the NFL have to gain by attacking the Pats, at the same time embarrassing the league? That makes no sense at all.

 

[Wbbfan1]

People are saying Brady didn't cooperate. All he did was refuse to turn over his personal phone, which I wouldn't have done either if I was in his position. There's no way the NFL would have been able to protect his private information with his celebrity status. Even some of the ESPN talking heads have said they would have done the same, yet these same people say Brady wasn't cooperative with the NFL. The NFL got the Patriot Phones that the two employees had, so in essence they have Brady's text messages without needing Brady's personal phone.

 

[easttexastrash]

Yeah, I'd bend over backwards for all the trolls. I've seen many men hanged by vehemently arguing their innocence. After all he's accomplished, it's humiliating to be dealing with accusations like this. If underinflated balls were that big a benefit, why do some quarterbacks want the highest pressure allowed by the NFL????? They want to underperform????? They want to make it harder for their receivers to catch the ball. It's all bullcrap and the league seems to be willing to do anything to impune the Patriots. I think this investigation was the biggest bunch of bullcrap that's been done in forever. Millions of dollars wasted for what, a possibility, a maybe, a might?????

An innocent person does whatever possible to clear his name. All he had to do was cooperate and this discussion would never have been had.

 

[Buzzyboy]

That is what makes his actions so silly. He didn't need to do this to win but now he has tarnished his image forever.

I'm hopeful that you don't serve on any juries. How many people are executed in Texas annually? With circumstantial evidence that most courts would throw out I hear "He didn't need to do this to win" as if it's a definitive fact based on text messages between two guys who didn't seem to like Brady much? You'd convict him and throw him to the wolves? If Texas juries are that apt to convict on that damning MAYBE and PROBABLY, how many innocent men might have wrongfully been put to death. I thought that there was a level of proof needed before you'd impune someone's reputation but evidently the NFL (and you) don't think so. I happen to think you'd need to know more. Have a smoking gun. Before you go after one of the most successful quarterbacks in the history of the NFL you should KNOW something, not think something. I know Ray Rice beat the hell out of his girlfriend, I don't think he might have. I don't need to think that the scumbag that is now on the Cowboy roster beat the snot out of his fiancée. I know! Until such time as the NFL knows, they should shut the hell up.

 

[easttexastrash]

I'm hopeful that you don't serve on any juries. How many people are executed in Texas annually? With circumstantial evidence that most courts would throw out I hear "He didn't need to do this to win" as if it's a definitive fact based on text messages between two guys who didn't seem to like Brady much? You'd convict him and throw him to the wolves? If Texas juries are that apt to convict on that damning MAYBE and PROBABLY, how many innocent men might have wrongfully been put to death. I thought that there was a level of proof needed before you'd impune someone's reputation but evidently the NFL (and you) don't think so. I happen to think you'd need to know more. Have a smoking gun. Before you go after one of the most successful quarterbacks in the history of the NFL you should KNOW something, not think something. I know Ray Rice beat the hell out of his girlfriend, I don't think he might have. I don't need to think that the scumbag that is now on the Cowboy roster beat the snot out of his fiancée. I know! Until such time as the NFL knows, they should shut the hell up.

You do have a flare for the dramatic.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'm hopeful that you don't serve on any juries. How many people are executed in Texas annually? With circumstantial evidence that most courts would throw out I hear "He didn't need to do this to win" as if it's a definitive fact based on text messages between two guys who didn't seem to like Brady much? You'd convict him and throw him to the wolves? If Texas juries are that apt to convict on that damning MAYBE and PROBABLY, how many innocent men might have wrongfully been put to death. I thought that there was a level of proof needed before you'd impune someone's reputation but evidently the NFL (and you) don't think so. I happen to think you'd need to know more. Have a smoking gun. Before you go after one of the most successful quarterbacks in the history of the NFL you should KNOW something, not think something. I know Ray Rice beat the hell out of his girlfriend, I don't think he might have. I don't need to think that the scumbag that is now on the Cowboy roster beat the snot out of his fiancée. I know! Until such time as the NFL knows, they should shut the hell up.

I don't think the NFL needs to shut up. IMO the Patriots cheated. It's not a big deal many teams and players cheat to gain that extra advantage. Heck coaches teach their players to cheat (for example press and foul - "the refs can't call every foul."). In some ways it is called "being crafty." No pun intended.

As a sox fan -- I could care les if anyone said ManRam and Ortiz cheated. My sox won - I got to watch it and loved the moment. Can't be taken away. I don't get why Pats fans get so defensive. Their team imo from years ago and even now from top to bottom cheats -- they get away with it - more power to them. I'm not buying for one second the owner's or player's or Pat's fans holier than thou attitudes. Their teams won - congrats. Tie up your laces and see ya next year. The Pats ownership/coaching/players and fans always blaming someone else gets tiring but it is what it is.

You can google on internet for example Nate Thurmond taking about how dirty the celts were. He said while game was going they would pull down your trousers as you were running up the court. It's cheating. An offensive lineman holding in a way it's tough to get caught-- it's cheating. A catcher moving the ball from outside to inside the strike zone (i.e. framing) - it's cheating.

 

[j66kicker]

What about his resourses?
Surely not chump change.

No, but she is the higher earner

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/trending/Gisele-tops-all-supermodels-even-QB-hubby-Tom-Brady.html

 

[NewCorn]

If you have been reading anything about this 'case' you would know that depending on the weather in each game, every quarterback throws footballs that vary from down to down by anywhere up to probably 1.5 pounds or pressure - this game was played in 48 degrees and rain - try the ice bowl and the footballs were probably 2+ pounds pressure different between the start of the game and the end of the game.
The weight of the ball doesn't change by very much at all, unless it is wet and even then by maybe a few ounces, the circumference does't change in any noticeable way. And the none of us would probably be able to tell the difference between a ball with 12 psi and one with 10 psi.

Mush! Even a high school football player knows when the ball is fully inflated.

 

[CL82]

The equipment guy went my the nickname "the deflater. How does one earn that title? Maybe he also takes care of Brady's car tires.
Because he's the guy who deflates the balls to the lower legal limit prior to providing them to the refs?

Brady and the Patriots made it a bigger deal by not cooperating fully. I presume that Brady could still turn over his phone records and prove his innocence. I would do that if I were a player trying to preserve my legacy.
I think if you ask the Boneyard legal team that they would not encourage a client to provide unfettered access to their emails. It is an exceptionally bad idea.

 

[NewCorn]

Didn't answer my question. I'll restate it for you.

You realize that the majority of the info from the report supports the notion that he didn't cheat, right? Or haven't you read it?

Read the report and realize that that the footballs reduced in pressure is slightly less than what one predict the loss of PSI should be given the weather conditions. There's no evidence of cheating. All your hypotheticals above pre-suppose tampering that the investigators own experts said did not occur.

Where does the report say, "There is no evidence of cheating?" NBC news examined the document and reported this:
A report released today by the independent attorney hired by the NFL concludes "it's more probable than not" that Patriots personnel "participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots games balls after the balls were examined by the referee."

 

[NewCorn]

The investigators did not ask for unfettered access. They only wanted Brady's lawyers to participate in selecting the particular e-mails concerned with handling the footballs. Brady clearly has something to hide.

 

[CL82]

Where does the report say, "There is no evidence of cheating?" NBC news examined the document and reported this:
A report released today by the independent attorney hired by the NFL concludes "it's more probable than not" that Patriots personnel "participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots games balls after the balls were examined by the referee."

Read the report. If you go back and reread this thread you'll see that the concluding sentence of the report states that no determination of tampering could be made. It is quoted several times.

 

[UcMiami]

An innocent person does whatever possible to clear his name. All he had to do was cooperate and this discussion would never have been had.

A star player also has responsibility for upholding union rights and protecting the grunts of the union. Not sure where the union stands on players bending over backwards to their employer - for example, if your boss at work is investigating a problem in the workplace and demands everyones personal phones to review are you going to give yours in? And what would your union say if you were fined, suspended, or fired because you refused?

There is a general presumption of innocence and right to privacy in this country that goes beyond legal proceedings. Based on his lawyer's comments, some of the issue is with not cowing to the commissioner to protect the union's and all players' rights.

 

[UcMiami]

Also interesting to note in the report - Anderson's best recollection is he used the gauge that consistently read higher pressures pre-game, but in order to better orchestrate their 'conclusion' or more likely than not, they badgered him into admitting that it was 'possible' that he used the other gauge - that way, they could use 'average' readings rather than the higher halftime readings, and list the lower readings that are consistently .35-.5 psi off to make the numbers look worse.

This from a general 'Patriots basher':
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...best-recollection-on-a-key-piece-of-evidence/

 

[NewCorn]

Read the report. If you go back and reread this thread you'll see that the concluding sentence of the report states that no determination of tampering could be made. It is quoted several times.

"No determination" does not mean no evidence. This is not a criminal matter. The preponderance of the evidence led the investigators to say the Patriots "participated in a deliberate effort" to deflate the balls. How low a standard of honesty do we have to set for Brady and the Patriots?

 

[NewCorn]

And yet, New Corn, the league admits it is only most probable that Brady, generally, knew. Hardly the type of evidence I'd want to go to court with.

Well, nobody is convicting Brady of a crime. But every day people are penalized in civil cases because a preponderance of the evidence is against them. I see no reason to make an exception for Brady and the Patriots, especially because the Patriots have a record of dishonesty.

 

[NewCorn]

Thank God we have you here with your inside information. Your insightful post really saved humanity for the ages. The Patriots seemed to do okay after their supposed deflated scandal broke, wouldn't you say???? Somehow without any more ability to CHEAT, they beat the snot out of the Colts in the second half, totally embarrassing them and then beat the big bad Seahawks. The only reason Brady was able to make an NFL roster was because of those danged underinflated balls, right????

He could have done it without cheating, but he did it with cheating. That's even worse behavior, as when the wealthy shop-lift.

 

[CL82]

"No determination" does not mean no evidence. This is not a criminal matter. The preponderance of the evidence led the investigators to say the Patriots "participated in a deliberate effort" to deflate the balls. How low a standard of honesty do we have to set for Brady and the Patriots?

Read the report or even read the thread. You'll realize that they said exactly the opposite, literally.

 

[easttexastrash]

If anyone has to try this hard to prove they are innocent, they probably aren't.

 

[toadfoot]

This franchise has a history of cheating. First it was illegal filming of opponent's practices. Then it was illegal stealing of defensive signals. Now it's illegal footballs.

The NFL is more interested in protecting the golden boy image of a future hall of famer (and his marketability) than they are of protecting the integrity of the game. From one side of their face they suspend cheating steroid users while out of the other side they say that cheating is rewarded as long as you don't get caught. The rings they get for 2015 should have zircons instead of real diamonds.


The hypocrisy in the NFL is obvious. If you are an owner you can get caught with a bag of illegally obtained drugs and walk away without charges and continue to own your team, but smoke a joint as a player and it's bye bye career.

Please provide links to your allegation of illegally filming an opponent's practice. The only such allegation I've ever heard about was the story originally published by the Boston Herald alleging that the Patriots filmed the Rams walk thru before the SuperBowl. No evidence of said filming was ever produced and the Herald had to retract the story.

It's not illegal to steal defensive signals. Never has been.

As for the current issue, there's zero evidence that anyone deliberately removed air from the footballs prior to the AFC Championship game. Lot's of speculation and innuendo, but no evidence.

 

[Zorro]

That's true but sad. There was a time when sportsmanship meant fair play. Sports were used by society to promote fairness and build character. Not anymore. It's now all about winning at any cost. Interesting that colleges seem to have been promoting negative aspects of sports for quite some time. Rivals are not seen as competition but as the enemy, who is continued to be hated not just after the game is over but also long after graduation. This creates a pattern for selective vilification in-order to justify an institutionally justified prejudice towards a select group of people. Right being loyal to your school ( or group) justifies bigotry. That is the foundation for all bias and bigotry but it's ok when done in the context of the college environment. Just a carry over from the Aristocratic Class distinctive culture which was promoted through the English school system. Americans thought they had left Class distinctions behind them, but it was kept alive and well in our institutions of higher learning. This creates the idea of having different standards for how we treat our friends and all others - especially our enemies. Win at any cost when playing our rivals.

Well, St. Vincent of Lombardy DID share with us that "winning is the ONLY thing, no?

 

[toadfoot]

Nice try. You guys really are unbelievable. What did Brady and Belichick and the Pats ever do to you? Were you dating Gisele or something?

Let's face it, 95% of all NFL fans are fans of teams not named the New England Patriots. The amount of misinformation I see posted on ESPN and other sites is really remarkable. I'd say at least 98% of ALL NFL fans, including Patriots fans, still do not understand what "Spygate" was about and I can't count the number of posts I've seen in the last week that cite the discredited Boston Herald story on filming the Rams walk thru as gospel.

The bottom line is that the bulk of the 95% who are not Patriots fans would love nothing more than to see the Patriots punished because they simply envy the Patriots success.