O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware | Page 4 | The Boneyard

O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware

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I'm curious how that 12rh ball defied the laws of physics and didn't become under inflated. That's what should be investigated.
I were to guess I'd say either it was kept out of the elements or the predicted loss occurred and gauge variation obviated the results.

(Props to Upstater who was the first person to pick up on the fact that balls behaved fairly close to how you'd expect them to given the weather.)
 
Interesting comments from an article on ESPN:
... why I think commissioner Roger Goodell has erred badly from the start with the league's handling of the Patriots and underinflated footballs, making this into a much bigger deal than it is. Over the last three days, I've digested the 243-page Wells report reading it multiple times, and with its bias and lack of fairness in certain areas, I truly can't believe what the commissioner has done to the legacy and reputation of one of the greatest quarterbacks and ambassadors in the history of the game -- all over air pressure in a football and without definitive proof he had anything to do with it.

And:
Why do I think this has been made to be a bigger deal than it is? I go back to the Vikings-Panthers game from November, with teams illegally heating footballs on the sideline and simply getting a warning from the NFL, and wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. I go back to the Chargers using an illegal sticky substance on towels in 2012 and getting fined $25,000, and likewise wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. Put the three situations together and only one requires a full-fledged investigation that will cost owners millions of dollars? In the interest of fairness, what am I missing? Add in comments from Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgersabout his preference for overinflated footballs, and this New York Times story on Eli Manning and his football preparation, and it just seems we've gone off the rails here.
 
Cheating did not pay off for NFL Atlanta, Cleveland, or New Orleans in the cheating incidents cited in an earlier post:



You imply that "most" elected officials are cheaters. It just seems that way.;)
Kibitzers- it's great to be corresponding w you again!!! Belichek had the first 25-30 plays of his opponent in his first Supebowl- and won the game. He ran a program stealing signals for 6-7 yr's. He won consistently during that time.he wouldn't steal signals for 6-7 yrs if it wasn't paying dividends. They consistently cheat and it tarnishes their winning tradition. For me anyway.
 
Kibitzers- it's great to be corresponding w you again!!! Belichek had the first 25-30 plays of his opponent in his first Supebowl- and won the game. He ran a program stealing signals for 6-7 yr's. He won consistently during that time.he wouldn't steal signals for 6-7 yrs if it wasn't paying dividends. They consistently cheat and it tarnishes their winning tradition. For me anyway.
25-30 plays? Not sure where you are getting this stuff?! And 'stealing signs' maybe, but he seems to be winning just as much in the last 6-7 years. Hard to figure.

I've decided that the reason the Colts footballs lost less pressure (presumably because we don't actually know where they started) is because the colts were illegally heating them on the sidelines, and their offense wasn't holding on to the ball long enough to allow them to get wet.
 
The equipment guy went my the nickname "the deflater. How does one earn that title? Maybe he also takes care of Brady's car tires.


Interesting comments from an article on ESPN:
... why I think commissioner Roger Goodell has erred badly from the start with the league's handling of the Patriots and underinflated footballs, making this into a much bigger deal than it is. Over the last three days, I've digested the 243-page Wells report reading it multiple times, and with its bias and lack of fairness in certain areas, I truly can't believe what the commissioner has done to the legacy and reputation of one of the greatest quarterbacks and ambassadors in the history of the game -- all over air pressure in a football and without definitive proof he had anything to do with it.

And:
Why do I think this has been made to be a bigger deal than it is? I go back to the Vikings-Panthers game from November, with teams illegally heating footballs on the sideline and simply getting a warning from the NFL, and wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. I go back to the Chargers using an illegal sticky substance on towels in 2012 and getting fined $25,000, and likewise wonder how we got to this point with the Patriots and underinflated footballs. Put the three situations together and only one requires a full-fledged investigation that will cost owners millions of dollars? In the interest of fairness, what am I missing? Add in comments from Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgersabout his preference for overinflated footballs, and this New York Times story on Eli Manning and his football preparation, and it just seems we've gone off the rails here.

Brady and the Patriots made it a bigger deal by not cooperating fully. I presume that Brady could still turn over his phone records and prove his innocence. I would do that if I were a player trying to preserve my legacy.
 
I were to guess I'd say either it was kept out of the elements or the predicted loss occurred and gauge variation obviated the results.

(Props to Upstater who was the first person to pick up on the fact that balls behaved fairly close to how you'd expect them to given the weather.)

Or the equipment guy missed one.
 
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Kibitzers- it's great to be corresponding w you again!!! Belichek had the first 25-30 plays of his opponent in his first Supebowl- and won the game. He ran a program stealing signals for 6-7 yr's. He won consistently during that time.he wouldn't steal signals for 6-7 yrs if it wasn't paying dividends. They consistently cheat and it tarnishes their winning tradition. For me anyway.
Thank God we have you here with your inside information. Your insightful post really saved humanity for the ages. The Patriots seemed to do okay after their supposed deflated scandal broke, wouldn't you say???? Somehow without any more ability to CHEAT, they beat the snot out of the Colts in the second half, totally embarrassing them and then beat the big bad Seahawks. The only reason Brady was able to make an NFL roster was because of those danged underinflated balls, right????
 
Nope - that does't work because all balls lost pressure due to the elements


Had Brady fully cooperated with the investigation maybe I would feel different. But a person only refuses to cooperate if he has something to hide. He had the opportunity to eliminate all doubt and declined.
 
Nope - that does't work because all balls lost pressure due to the elements
Wasn't the NFL using one of those super duper sophisticated pressure measuring devices they got at True Value Hardware, three for $6.95???? Evidently despite their major investment, they must have got a faulty device. Who would have thunk???? The NFL is a bigger joke by the day! People who want to rip apart the big bad Patriots are just loving this, aren't they? The Colts somehow figure by bringing out this HORRENDOUS scandal, they'll be forgiven for being abused by the Patriots multiple times by ridiculous scores and now everyone knows why. The underinflated balls somehow won the Patriots how many games under Bellichick and Brady??? How many NFL coaches and players and analysts were fooled into actually thinking Brady had any ability at all and felt that somehow Bellechick had a brain. It was all mirrors and thankfully the Colts have exposed these phonies to the world. God save the Queen!
 
Thank God we have you here with your inside information. Your insightful post really saved humanity for the ages. The Patriots seemed to do okay after their supposed deflated scandal broke, wouldn't you say???? Somehow without any more ability to CHEAT, they beat the snot out of the Colts in the second half, totally embarrassing them and then beat the big bad Seahawks. The only reason Brady was able to make an NFL roster was because of those danged underinflated balls, right????

That is what makes his actions so silly. He didn't need to do this to win but now he has tarnished his image forever.
 
Had Brady fully cooperated with the investigation maybe I would feel different. But a person only refuses to cooperate if he has something to hide. He had the opportunity to eliminate all doubt and declined.
Yeah, I'd bend over backwards for all the trolls. I've seen many men hanged by vehemently arguing their innocence. After all he's accomplished, it's humiliating to be dealing with accusations like this. If underinflated balls were that big a benefit, why do some quarterbacks want the highest pressure allowed by the NFL????? They want to underperform????? They want to make it harder for their receivers to catch the ball. It's all bullcrap and the league seems to be willing to do anything to impune the Patriots. I think this investigation was the biggest bunch of bullcrap that's been done in forever. Millions of dollars wasted for what, a possibility, a maybe, a might?????
 
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Wasn't the NFL using one of those super duper sophisticated pressure measuring devices they got at True Value Hardware, three for $6.95???? Evidently despite their major investment, they must have got a faulty device. Who would have thunk???? The NFL is a bigger joke by the day! People who want to rip apart the big bad Patriots are just loving this, aren't they? The Colts somehow figure by bringing out this HORRENDOUS scandal, they'll be forgiven for being abused by the Patriots multiple times by ridiculous scores and now everyone knows why. The underinflated balls somehow won the Patriots how many games under Bellichick and Brady??? How many NFL coaches and players and analysts were fooled into actually thinking Brady had any ability at all and felt that somehow Bellechick had a brain. It was all mirrors and thankfully the Colts have exposed these phonies to the world. God save the Queen!

Extra question marks don't help make your point more valid.

I don't think the deflated balls made a difference as NE was clearly the best team. However, what is does is make people wonder how the Pats have cheated in other ways that nobody knows about. This will forever tarnish Brady and the Pats, which is unfortunate .
 
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Yeah, I'd bend over backwards for all the trolls. I've seen many men hanged by vehemently arguing their innocence. After all he's accomplished, it's humiliating to be dealing with accusations like this. If underinflated balls were that big a benefit, why do some quarterbacks want the highest pressure allowed by the NFL????? They want to underperform????? They want to make it harder for their receivers to catch the ball. It's all bullcrap and the league seems to be willing to do anything to impune the Patriots. I think this investigation was the biggest bunch of bullcrap that's been done in forever. Millions of dollars wasted for what, a possibility, a maybe, a might?????

What does the NFL have to gain by attacking the Pats, at the same time embarrassing the league? That makes no sense at all.
 
People are saying Brady didn't cooperate. All he did was refuse to turn over his personal phone, which I wouldn't have done either if I was in his position. There's no way the NFL would have been able to protect his private information with his celebrity status. Even some of the ESPN talking heads have said they would have done the same, yet these same people say Brady wasn't cooperative with the NFL. The NFL got the Patriot Phones that the two employees had, so in essence they have Brady's text messages without needing Brady's personal phone.
 
Yeah, I'd bend over backwards for all the trolls. I've seen many men hanged by vehemently arguing their innocence. After all he's accomplished, it's humiliating to be dealing with accusations like this. If underinflated balls were that big a benefit, why do some quarterbacks want the highest pressure allowed by the NFL????? They want to underperform????? They want to make it harder for their receivers to catch the ball. It's all bullcrap and the league seems to be willing to do anything to impune the Patriots. I think this investigation was the biggest bunch of bullcrap that's been done in forever. Millions of dollars wasted for what, a possibility, a maybe, a might?????

An innocent person does whatever possible to clear his name. All he had to do was cooperate and this discussion would never have been had.
 
That is what makes his actions so silly. He didn't need to do this to win but now he has tarnished his image forever.
I'm hopeful that you don't serve on any juries. How many people are executed in Texas annually? With circumstantial evidence that most courts would throw out I hear "He didn't need to do this to win" as if it's a definitive fact based on text messages between two guys who didn't seem to like Brady much? You'd convict him and throw him to the wolves? If Texas juries are that apt to convict on that damning MAYBE and PROBABLY, how many innocent men might have wrongfully been put to death. I thought that there was a level of proof needed before you'd impune someone's reputation but evidently the NFL (and you) don't think so. I happen to think you'd need to know more. Have a smoking gun. Before you go after one of the most successful quarterbacks in the history of the NFL you should KNOW something, not think something. I know Ray Rice beat the hell out of his girlfriend, I don't think he might have. I don't need to think that the scumbag that is now on the Cowboy roster beat the snot out of his fiancée. I know! Until such time as the NFL knows, they should shut the hell up.
 
I'm hopeful that you don't serve on any juries. How many people are executed in Texas annually? With circumstantial evidence that most courts would throw out I hear "He didn't need to do this to win" as if it's a definitive fact based on text messages between two guys who didn't seem to like Brady much? You'd convict him and throw him to the wolves? If Texas juries are that apt to convict on that damning MAYBE and PROBABLY, how many innocent men might have wrongfully been put to death. I thought that there was a level of proof needed before you'd impune someone's reputation but evidently the NFL (and you) don't think so. I happen to think you'd need to know more. Have a smoking gun. Before you go after one of the most successful quarterbacks in the history of the NFL you should KNOW something, not think something. I know Ray Rice beat the hell out of his girlfriend, I don't think he might have. I don't need to think that the scumbag that is now on the Cowboy roster beat the snot out of his fiancée. I know! Until such time as the NFL knows, they should shut the hell up.

You do have a flare for the dramatic.
 
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I'm hopeful that you don't serve on any juries. How many people are executed in Texas annually? With circumstantial evidence that most courts would throw out I hear "He didn't need to do this to win" as if it's a definitive fact based on text messages between two guys who didn't seem to like Brady much? You'd convict him and throw him to the wolves? If Texas juries are that apt to convict on that damning MAYBE and PROBABLY, how many innocent men might have wrongfully been put to death. I thought that there was a level of proof needed before you'd impune someone's reputation but evidently the NFL (and you) don't think so. I happen to think you'd need to know more. Have a smoking gun. Before you go after one of the most successful quarterbacks in the history of the NFL you should KNOW something, not think something. I know Ray Rice beat the hell out of his girlfriend, I don't think he might have. I don't need to think that the scumbag that is now on the Cowboy roster beat the snot out of his fiancée. I know! Until such time as the NFL knows, they should shut the hell up.

I don't think the NFL needs to shut up. IMO the Patriots cheated. It's not a big deal many teams and players cheat to gain that extra advantage. Heck coaches teach their players to cheat (for example press and foul - "the refs can't call every foul."). In some ways it is called "being crafty." No pun intended.

As a sox fan -- I could care les if anyone said ManRam and Ortiz cheated. My sox won - I got to watch it and loved the moment. Can't be taken away. I don't get why Pats fans get so defensive. Their team imo from years ago and even now from top to bottom cheats -- they get away with it - more power to them. I'm not buying for one second the owner's or player's or Pat's fans holier than thou attitudes. Their teams won - congrats. Tie up your laces and see ya next year. The Pats ownership/coaching/players and fans always blaming someone else gets tiring but it is what it is.

You can google on internet for example Nate Thurmond taking about how dirty the celts were. He said while game was going they would pull down your trousers as you were running up the court. It's cheating. An offensive lineman holding in a way it's tough to get caught-- it's cheating. A catcher moving the ball from outside to inside the strike zone (i.e. framing) - it's cheating.
 
If you have been reading anything about this 'case' you would know that depending on the weather in each game, every quarterback throws footballs that vary from down to down by anywhere up to probably 1.5 pounds or pressure - this game was played in 48 degrees and rain - try the ice bowl and the footballs were probably 2+ pounds pressure different between the start of the game and the end of the game.
The weight of the ball doesn't change by very much at all, unless it is wet and even then by maybe a few ounces, the circumference does't change in any noticeable way. And the none of us would probably be able to tell the difference between a ball with 12 psi and one with 10 psi.
Mush! Even a high school football player knows when the ball is fully inflated.
 
The equipment guy went my the nickname "the deflater. How does one earn that title? Maybe he also takes care of Brady's car tires.
Because he's the guy who deflates the balls to the lower legal limit prior to providing them to the refs?

Brady and the Patriots made it a bigger deal by not cooperating fully. I presume that Brady could still turn over his phone records and prove his innocence. I would do that if I were a player trying to preserve my legacy.
I think if you ask the Boneyard legal team that they would not encourage a client to provide unfettered access to their emails. It is an exceptionally bad idea.
 
Didn't answer my question. I'll restate it for you.

You realize that the majority of the info from the report supports the notion that he didn't cheat, right? Or haven't you read it?

Read the report and realize that that the footballs reduced in pressure is slightly less than what one predict the loss of PSI should be given the weather conditions. There's no evidence of cheating. All your hypotheticals above pre-suppose tampering that the investigators own experts said did not occur.
Where does the report say, "There is no evidence of cheating?" NBC news examined the document and reported this:
A report released today by the independent attorney hired by the NFL concludes "it's more probable than not" that Patriots personnel "participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots games balls after the balls were examined by the referee."
 
The investigators did not ask for unfettered access. They only wanted Brady's lawyers to participate in selecting the particular e-mails concerned with handling the footballs. Brady clearly has something to hide.
 
Where does the report say, "There is no evidence of cheating?" NBC news examined the document and reported this:
A report released today by the independent attorney hired by the NFL concludes "it's more probable than not" that Patriots personnel "participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots games balls after the balls were examined by the referee."
Read the report. If you go back and reread this thread you'll see that the concluding sentence of the report states that no determination of tampering could be made. It is quoted several times.
 
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An innocent person does whatever possible to clear his name. All he had to do was cooperate and this discussion would never have been had.
A star player also has responsibility for upholding union rights and protecting the grunts of the union. Not sure where the union stands on players bending over backwards to their employer - for example, if your boss at work is investigating a problem in the workplace and demands everyones personal phones to review are you going to give yours in? And what would your union say if you were fined, suspended, or fired because you refused?

There is a general presumption of innocence and right to privacy in this country that goes beyond legal proceedings. Based on his lawyer's comments, some of the issue is with not cowing to the commissioner to protect the union's and all players' rights.
 
Also interesting to note in the report - Anderson's best recollection is he used the gauge that consistently read higher pressures pre-game, but in order to better orchestrate their 'conclusion' or more likely than not, they badgered him into admitting that it was 'possible' that he used the other gauge - that way, they could use 'average' readings rather than the higher halftime readings, and list the lower readings that are consistently .35-.5 psi off to make the numbers look worse.

This from a general 'Patriots basher':
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...best-recollection-on-a-key-piece-of-evidence/
 
Read the report. If you go back and reread this thread you'll see that the concluding sentence of the report states that no determination of tampering could be made. It is quoted several times.
"No determination" does not mean no evidence. This is not a criminal matter. The preponderance of the evidence led the investigators to say the Patriots "participated in a deliberate effort" to deflate the balls. How low a standard of honesty do we have to set for Brady and the Patriots?
 
And yet, New Corn, the league admits it is only most probable that Brady, generally, knew. Hardly the type of evidence I'd want to go to court with.
Well, nobody is convicting Brady of a crime. But every day people are penalized in civil cases because a preponderance of the evidence is against them. I see no reason to make an exception for Brady and the Patriots, especially because the Patriots have a record of dishonesty.
 
Thank God we have you here with your inside information. Your insightful post really saved humanity for the ages. The Patriots seemed to do okay after their supposed deflated scandal broke, wouldn't you say???? Somehow without any more ability to CHEAT, they beat the snot out of the Colts in the second half, totally embarrassing them and then beat the big bad Seahawks. The only reason Brady was able to make an NFL roster was because of those danged underinflated balls, right????
He could have done it without cheating, but he did it with cheating. That's even worse behavior, as when the wealthy shop-lift.
 
"No determination" does not mean no evidence. This is not a criminal matter. The preponderance of the evidence led the investigators to say the Patriots "participated in a deliberate effort" to deflate the balls. How low a standard of honesty do we have to set for Brady and the Patriots?
Read the report or even read the thread. You'll realize that they said exactly the opposite, literally.
 
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