O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware

[UcMiami]

Nor is it a witch hunt.

As the report says:
"In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."

He walks.

I actually think that should be the summary! In that one statement is the sum total of this 100 days of investigation. Everything else is paper thin.

The other issue brought up by his lawyer is interesting - the refusal to turn over his personal phone may in fact have some basis in union rules/precedence.

While he probably does not sue the league, I am sure the union would file a grievance on his behalf. And yes, players can sue the league - it has happened before and will happen again. Signing on to a union and the union being a party to a collective bargaining agreement does not preclude your legal rights in the US courts.

 

[UcMiami]

One more interesting point that I have not seen discussed anywhere - The Patriots had the ball for almost twice the time that the Colts did. Not sure what the first half numbers were, but in a game played in the rain, and with scientific evidence that moisture in the leather has a significant effect on inflation, one would expect the patriots balls to have gotten wetter during the game than the Colts balls.

Would be curious to find out from other QBs if they would prefer to play with consistently inflated footballs or randomly inflated footballs. Presumably the Patriots footballs all went to the officials at 12.5 pps. Someone operating an inflation pin with no gauge or pump attached with 90 seconds to release air from 12 footballs is unlikely to be able to do so with any kind of method. So balls would likely end up in a range from say 11.0 - 12.5. Seems to me a QB or any person playing a ball game would rather have a consistent ball than a random one. Obviously with game conditions the 12 possible balls will be slightly different over the course of the game, but do you really want to introduce greater variation than would naturally occur?

 

[CL82]

One more interesting point that I have not seen discussed anywhere - The Patriots had the ball for almost twice the time that the Colts did. Not sure what the first half numbers were, but in a game played in the rain, and with scientific evidence that moisture in the leather has a significant effect on inflation, one would expect the patriots balls to have gotten wetter during the game than the Colts balls.

Would be curious to find out from other QBs if they would prefer to play with consistently inflated footballs or randomly inflated footballs. Presumably the Patriots footballs all went to the officials at 12.5 pps. Someone operating an inflation pin with no gauge or pump attached with 90 seconds to release air from 12 footballs is unlikely to be able to do so with any kind of method. So balls would likely end up in a range from say 11.0 - 12.5. Seems to me a QB or any person playing a ball game would rather have a consistent ball than a random one. Obviously with game conditions the 12 possible balls will be slightly different over the course of the game, but do you really want to introduce greater variation than would naturally occur?

Your first point never occurred to me, but it makes a lot sense.

I thought about your second point when that idiot from the Daily News did his test, but I never brought it up because the point that you can randomly stick a needle into 12 balls was so idiotic. Obviously, I didn't expect the it to turn up in the final report.

 

[NewCorn]

Actually it doesn't. Some misinformed people believe that, but they are wrong. It's not really cheating to do something better than everyone else can do.

Well, did they do it better than everyone else while deflating balls and spying? It seems the answer is yes. One thing for sure, Brady knew he was throwing an under inflated ball. Any quarterback would know that.

 

[Geno-ista]

I'm with Alydar- I respect what Belichek and the Patriots have done. I love Tom Brady as a player and a person. All the things they have done illegally tarnish all the greatness somewhat for me. It's the same old story- just like bailing out the big banks in urge financial crisis. The Patriots are too big to fail. Tom will get a good size fine. Maybe a gm suspension- maybe? the text messages show you that he cheated, but the league gives an unlikely and possible out. It's all about$$$, and proves that cheating really does pay off. And it was cheating. Integrity doesn't mean that much anymore. If it did, we we wouldn't have most of our current elected officials. The balls were under inflated- plain and simple. An advantage was gained.

 

[Kibitzer]

I'm with Alydar- I respect what Belichek and the Patriots have done. I love Tom Brady as a player and a person. All the things they have done illegally tarnish all the greatness somewhat for me. It's the same old story- just like bailing out the big banks in urge financial crisis. The Patriots are too big to fail. Tom will get a good size fine. Maybe a gm suspension- maybe? the text messages show you that he cheated, but the league gives an unlikely and possible out. It's all about$$$, and proves that cheating really does pay off. And it was cheating. Integrity doesn't mean that much anymore. If it did, we we wouldn't have most of our current elected officials. The balls were under inflated- plain and simple. An advantage was gained.

Cheating did not pay off for NFL Atlanta, Cleveland, or New Orleans in the cheating incidents cited in an earlier post:

Atlanta piped crowd noise into the stadium and it cost them big time. New Orleans was punished severely for its bounty program. Ditto Browns GM for texting from stands to sideline. Brady and Belichek are next.

You imply that "most" elected officials are cheaters. It just seems that way.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Reports today indicate that the Pats expect a lengthy suspension for Brady, perhaps 6-8 games. Much is due to the cover-up, which is deemed conduct detrimental to the league.

 

[Icebear]

I hope Brady sues the NFL.

Even if they want to read into posts that Brady wanted the balls soft that does not indicate he wanted them below the legal end of the range at or near 12 pounds. Unless NFL policy states the league can request all emails from every player they are intruding into personal private communications. There is a ton of over reach in this. Instead the league should focus it attention on its own inadequate standards and controls which should have made it impossible for the situation to happen.

 

[pinotbear]

I hope Brady sues the NFL.

I'm glad somebody else feels this way. Either that, or, if Goodell tries to hammer Brady harder than Rice or Petersen, just hold a press conference and say "Screw it. Screw Goodell. Screw the NFL. I've got more than enough money, more than enough records, my life is great, my wife is wonderful, and my kids are adorable. I quit. NOW, since I'm no longer a player, I'm coming after you with both guns drawn: lawsuit, expose', hypocrisy, other teams' dirty tricks, other players' ball tricks, etc. I'm gonna do my damnedest to tear this thing down around Goodell's head."

 

[stamfordhusky]

I'm glad somebody else feels this way. Either that, or, if Goodell tries to hammer Brady harder than Rice or Petersen, just hold a press conference and say "Screw it. Screw Goodell. Screw the NFL. I've got more than enough money, more than enough records, my life is great, my wife is wonderful, and my kids are adorable. I quit. NOW, since I'm no longer a player, I'm coming after you with both guns drawn: lawsuit, expose', hypocrisy, other teams' dirty tricks, other players' ball tricks, etc. I'm gonna do my damnedest to tear this thing down around Goodell's head."

Under the Union agreement he cannot sue the league. And his refusal to cooperate with the investigation assured that he would draw punishment.

 

[NewCorn]

Brady is a super-talented player and a cheat.

 

[stamfordhusky]

I actually think that should be the summary! In that one statement is the sum total of this 100 days of investigation. Everything else is paper thin.

The other issue brought up by his lawyer is interesting - the refusal to turn over his personal phone may in fact have some basis in union rules/precedence.

While he probably does not sue the league, I am sure the union would file a grievance on his behalf. And yes, players can sue the league - it has happened before and will happen again. Signing on to a union and the union being a party to a collective bargaining agreement does not preclude your legal rights in the US courts.

It is possible to sue the league only under limited circumstances. He won't be able to sue in this case.

 

[j66kicker]

It is possible to sue the league only under limited circumstances. He won't be able to sue in this case.

Don Shula comments on 'deflategate' at Dolphins 50 year anniversary celebration:

"Our record in those 50 years was always done with a lot of class, a lot of dignity, a lot of doing it the right way. We didn't deflate any balls."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...nd-patriots-says-miami-dolphins-deflate-balls

Right. Richie Incognito - dignity and class personified...

 

[CL82]

I hope Brady sues the NFL.

Even if they want to read into posts that Brady wanted the balls soft that does not indicate he wanted them below the legal end of the range at or near 12 pounds. Unless NFL policy states the league can request all emails from every player they are intruding into personal private communications. There is a ton of over reach in this. Instead the league should focus it attention on its own inadequate standards and controls which should have made it impossible for the situation to happen.

I suspect that the emails might well be discoverable if he filed suit.

 

[NewCorn]

I suspect that the emails might well be discoverable if he filed suit.

Brady should sue his Sunday School teacher for not getting the message across: "Don't cheat!"

 

[CL82]

Brady should sue his Sunday School teacher for not getting the message across: "Don't cheat!"

You realize that the majority of the info from the report supports the notion that he didn't cheat, right? Or haven't you read it?

 

[NewCorn]

You realize that the majority of the info from the report supports the notion that he didn't cheat, right? Or haven't you read it?

Do you really believe that an NFL quarterback can throw an under-inflated football without realizing it's under-inflated? Do you really believe that equipment managers with families to feed would tamper with the football their star quarterback must throw without that quarterback's consent? Brady is a super-talented player and a cheat.

 

[Icebear]

And yet, New Corn, the league admits it is only most probable that Brady, generally, knew. Hardly the type of evidence I'd want to go to court with.

 

[Aluminny69]

Do you really believe that an NFL quarterback can throw an under-inflated football without realizing it's under-inflated? Do you really believe that equipment managers with families to feed would tamper with the football their star quarterback must throw without that quarterback's consent? Brady is a super-talented player and a cheat.

So, you don't think baseball pitchers would doctor baseballs IF they had access to them? You don't think basketball players would doctor basketballs IF they had access to them? You don't think hockey goalies would doctor pucks IF they had access to them? Then you are just a little naive. What's the common thread here? It's pretty clear: Don't let anyone have access to the balls after they have been tested. AND I'm 100% certain that will be the NEW NFL protocol.

BTW, why does each team gets its own set of footballs? And kickers their own separate footballs? What's up with that?

 

[msf22b]

If Brady gets suspended for enough games to materially affect their chances of making the playoffs (>4 games?) based on "probably", then he should sue the NFL with the full power of Gisele's resources.

What about his resourses?
Surely not chump change.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Like bounty game all teams awarded bonuses for great hits/plays etc. All QB's like to have their Football a certain way. Rodgers likes his over inflated, is that any difference then under inflated. The handling of the footballs is left up to teams and QB's.

I would like the NFL to demonstrate how 13 footballs in a bag can be deflated within 100 seconds. Each ball has to be individually removed, handled to line up the needle to deflate the ball, deflate the ball, then place ball on the ground until each balls is deflated. Then each individual ball must then be placed back into the bag. All within 100 seconds. Less then 8 seconds per ball.

 

[stamfordhusky]

I would like the NFL to demonstrate how 13 footballs in a bag can be deflated within 100 seconds. Each ball has to be individually removed, handled to line up the needle to deflate the ball, deflate the ball, then place ball on the ground until each balls is deflated. Then each individual ball must then be placed back into the bag. All within 100 seconds. Less then 8 seconds per ball.

They already demonstrated it. I suggest you read the report. They had three different people, each of whom was given minimal practice, try to do it. Each of the three successfully deflated all 13 balls within 71 seconds.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Several people have defended Brady's non-cooperaton because they incorrectly stated that the Commission wanted to access all of his emails or take over his phone or some other overly broad practice. All of those are incorrect. The Committee only wanted to review texts/emails between Brady and the two locker room persons or texts/emails pertaining directly to football deflation. They offered to have a third party or even Brady's own attorney screen all of it. All of those attempts were rejected. There must have been some really damning stuff, which wouldn't be surprising given the material in the texts between McNally and Jastremski. One of the comments from the report:


Brady declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and emails) that we requested, even though those requests were limited to the subject matter of our investigation (such as messages concerning the preparation of game balls, air pressure of balls, inflation of balls or deflation of balls) and we offered to allow Brady‟s counsel to screen and control the production so that it would be limited strictly to responsive materials and would not involve our taking possession of Brady‟s telephone or other electronic devices.

 

[easttexastrash]

I'm glad somebody else feels this way. Either that, or, if Goodell tries to hammer Brady harder than Rice or Petersen, just hold a press conference and say "Screw it. Screw Goodell. Screw the NFL. I've got more than enough money, more than enough records, my life is great, my wife is wonderful, and my kids are adorable. I quit. NOW, since I'm no longer a player, I'm coming after you with both guns drawn: lawsuit, expose', hypocrisy, other teams' dirty tricks, other players' ball tricks, etc. I'm gonna do my damnedest to tear this thing down around Goodell's head."

Yeah, that's gonna happen.

 

[easttexastrash]

Mulkey sent text messages to Griner and her father AFTER BG had verbally committed to Baylor and the overwhelming majority of posters declared her to be a cheater. The same posters are defending Brady when it seems abundantly clear that he was cheating by tampering with equipment and then refusing to cooperate with the investigation. Anyone who looks at this situation with objectivity will recognize that Brady cheated, which is too bad because he didn't need to, at least in the Indy game. Other games, who knows?

Can you imagine if this were Warlick and Tennessee had beaten UCONN and it appeared that she "probably" knew that the basketballs had been tampered with and that her team had gotten to practice with under inflated balls prior to the game? Would anyone be defending her.

 

[calpedaler]

Mulkey sent text messages to Griner and her father AFTER BG had verbally committed to Baylor and the overwhelming majority of posters declared her to be a cheater. The same posters are defending Brady when it seems abundantly clear that he was cheating by tampering with equipment and then refusing to cooperate with the investigation. Anyone who looks at this situation with objectivity will recognize that Brady cheated, which is too bad because he didn't need to, at least in the Indy game. Other games, who knows?

Can you imagine if this were Warlick and Tennessee had beaten UCONN and it appeared that she "probably" knew that the basketballs had been tampered with and that her team had gotten to practice with under inflated balls prior to the game? Would anyone be defending her.

Sure, that's all Mulkey did.

 

[CL82]

Do you really believe that an NFL quarterback can throw an under-inflated football without realizing it's under-inflated? Do you really believe that equipment managers with families to feed would tamper with the football their star quarterback must throw without that quarterback's consent? Brady is a super-talented player and a cheat.

Didn't answer my question. I'll restate it for you.

You realize that the majority of the info from the report supports the notion that he didn't cheat, right? Or haven't you read it?

Read the report and realize that that the footballs reduced in pressure is slightly less than what one predict the loss of PSI should be given the weather conditions. There's no evidence of cheating. All your hypotheticals above pre-suppose tampering that the investigators own experts said did not occur.

 

[easttexastrash]

Sure, that's all Mulkey did.

Oh yeah, she sat next to and talked to BG's parents at AAU games in which her daughter was playing on the same team. Everything included in the complaint occurred after BG's commitment. She didn't participate in any congratulary calls to her while she was in the 7th grade.

Someone else's action always seems worse than that of our team.

 

[easttexastrash]

Didn't answer my question. I'll restate it for you.

You realize that the majority of the info from the report supports the notion that he didn't cheat, right? Or haven't you read it?

Read the report and realize that that the footballs reduced in pressure is slightly less than what one predict the loss of PSI should be given the weather conditions. There's no evidence of cheating. All your hypotheticals above pre-suppose tampering that the investigators own experts said did not occur.

I'm curious how that 12rh ball defied the laws of physics and didn't become under inflated. That's what should be investigated.

 

[UcMiami]

Do you really believe that an NFL quarterback can throw an under-inflated football without realizing it's under-inflated? Do you really believe that equipment managers with families to feed would tamper with the football their star quarterback must throw without that quarterback's consent? Brady is a super-talented player and a cheat.

If you have been reading anything about this 'case' you would know that depending on the weather in each game, every quarterback throws footballs that vary from down to down by anywhere up to probably 1.5 pounds or pressure - this game was played in 48 degrees and rain - try the ice bowl and the footballs were probably 2+ pounds pressure different between the start of the game and the end of the game.
The weight of the ball doesn't change by very much at all, unless it is wet and even then by maybe a few ounces, the circumference does't change in any noticeable way. And the none of us would probably be able to tell the difference between a ball with 12 psi and one with 10 psi.