O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware

[uconnfan68]

"Brady's refusal to provide us with his own emails, text messages and phone records on relevant topics, in response to our narrowly tailored requests, limited the evidence available for our review and analysis," the report said.

That's all I need to hear on the subject. It is easy to protest innocence behind a stone wall.

So refusing to take part in a witchhunt against oneself is wrong according you? Can't wait for you to be the subject of one.

 

[FartMan69]

It's illegal to film opponents' practices.

It's illegal to steal defensive signals.

It's illegal to deflate footballs

The NFL didn't take away a draft pick for NOT breaking the rules. It's a lot easier to be an all-pro quarterback when you know what the defense is going to do before the ball is snapped.

I highly doubt they are the only team to break the rules. In fact cheating is taught in most sports. Any conscious attempt to deceive an official is cheating. Defensive backs are taught how to grab a receiver in a way that officials can't see. Offensive linemen are taught how to hold a defensive player in a way that officials can't see. In basketball, flopping is cheating. Watch any pro sport and you will hear the announcers say "he got away with one there" far too often.

Baseball & football ignored the use of amphetamines for decades. Jim Bouton wrote of the common use of "greenies" over 50 years ago.

It's the American way to extoll victory, in any form and by any means. Cheating is rewarded. Just as long as you don't get caught. Just ask Lance Armstrong.

http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

 

[DaddyChoc]

This franchise has a history of cheating. First it was illegal filming of opponent's practices. Then it was illegal stealing of defensive signals. Now it's illegal footballs.

The NFL is more interested in protecting the golden boy image of a future hall of famer (and his marketability) than they are of protecting the integrity of the game. From one side of their face they suspend cheating steroid users while out of the other side they say that cheating is rewarded as long as you don't get caught. The rings they get for 2015 should have zircons instead of real diamonds.


The hypocrisy in the NFL is obvious. If you are an owner you can get caught with a bag of illegally obtained drugs and walk away without charges and continue to own your team, but smoke a joint as a player and it's bye bye career.

not according to Aaron Hernandez... well he wasn't actually caught but did a lot of smoking

 

[CL82]

There's a huge difference between reading the defense and having your defensive coordinator tell you the defensive calls through the speaker in your helmet. Especially when that knowledge was obtained through means clearly against the rules.

Nor is it a witch hunt.

As the report says:
"In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."

He walks.

 

[ochoopsfan]

The best punishment for the NE Patriots is to have them play the NY Giants in the Super Bowl.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

So refusing to take part in a witchhunt against oneself is wrong according you? Can't wait for you to be the subject of one.

Brady is a member of a team which is in a league with rules and procedures to enforce them. As a matter of evidence, if you refuse to cooperate you may suffer an adverse inference (5th Amendment did not apply). What you call a witch hunt others call a deliberate, substantial investigation. Thanks for making it personal BTW.

 

[Icebear]

Brady is a member of a team which is in a league with rules and procedures to enforce them. As a matter of evidence, if you refuse to cooperate you may suffer an adverse inference (5th Amendment did not apply). What you call a witch hunt others call a deliberate, substantial investigation. Thanks for making it personal BTW.

When they enforce them consistently and across the board then it will stop until then it is meaningless.

 

[stamfordhusky]

If Brady gets suspended for enough games to materially affect their chances of making the playoffs (>4 games?) based on "probably", then he should sue the NFL with the full power of Gisele's resources.

Can't do that under the league rules, which have been agreed to by his own Union. Cover up and you may pay the price.

 

[stamfordhusky]

So refusing to take part in a witchhunt against oneself is wrong according you? Can't wait for you to be the subject of one.

Not a witch hunt at all, but a very legitimate investigation - one that is allowed under NFL rules, as approved by his own Union. And what was asked for was apparently very limited. The problem was that he obviously had some very incriminating emails/texts that he didn't dare release.

 

[Kibitzer]

Atlanta piped crowd noise into the stadium and it cost them big time. New Orleans was punished severely for its bounty program. Ditto Browns GM for texting from stands to sideline. Brady and Belichek are next.

Due process? Signed away in the union/NFL contract.

 

[UcMiami]

Nor is it a witch hunt.

As the report says:
"In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."

He walks.

I actually think that should be the summary! In that one statement is the sum total of this 100 days of investigation. Everything else is paper thin.

The other issue brought up by his lawyer is interesting - the refusal to turn over his personal phone may in fact have some basis in union rules/precedence.

While he probably does not sue the league, I am sure the union would file a grievance on his behalf. And yes, players can sue the league - it has happened before and will happen again. Signing on to a union and the union being a party to a collective bargaining agreement does not preclude your legal rights in the US courts.

 

[UcMiami]

One more interesting point that I have not seen discussed anywhere - The Patriots had the ball for almost twice the time that the Colts did. Not sure what the first half numbers were, but in a game played in the rain, and with scientific evidence that moisture in the leather has a significant effect on inflation, one would expect the patriots balls to have gotten wetter during the game than the Colts balls.

Would be curious to find out from other QBs if they would prefer to play with consistently inflated footballs or randomly inflated footballs. Presumably the Patriots footballs all went to the officials at 12.5 pps. Someone operating an inflation pin with no gauge or pump attached with 90 seconds to release air from 12 footballs is unlikely to be able to do so with any kind of method. So balls would likely end up in a range from say 11.0 - 12.5. Seems to me a QB or any person playing a ball game would rather have a consistent ball than a random one. Obviously with game conditions the 12 possible balls will be slightly different over the course of the game, but do you really want to introduce greater variation than would naturally occur?

 

[CL82]

One more interesting point that I have not seen discussed anywhere - The Patriots had the ball for almost twice the time that the Colts did. Not sure what the first half numbers were, but in a game played in the rain, and with scientific evidence that moisture in the leather has a significant effect on inflation, one would expect the patriots balls to have gotten wetter during the game than the Colts balls.

Would be curious to find out from other QBs if they would prefer to play with consistently inflated footballs or randomly inflated footballs. Presumably the Patriots footballs all went to the officials at 12.5 pps. Someone operating an inflation pin with no gauge or pump attached with 90 seconds to release air from 12 footballs is unlikely to be able to do so with any kind of method. So balls would likely end up in a range from say 11.0 - 12.5. Seems to me a QB or any person playing a ball game would rather have a consistent ball than a random one. Obviously with game conditions the 12 possible balls will be slightly different over the course of the game, but do you really want to introduce greater variation than would naturally occur?

Your first point never occurred to me, but it makes a lot sense.

I thought about your second point when that idiot from the Daily News did his test, but I never brought it up because the point that you can randomly stick a needle into 12 balls was so idiotic. Obviously, I didn't expect the it to turn up in the final report.

 

[NewCorn]

Actually it doesn't. Some misinformed people believe that, but they are wrong. It's not really cheating to do something better than everyone else can do.

Well, did they do it better than everyone else while deflating balls and spying? It seems the answer is yes. One thing for sure, Brady knew he was throwing an under inflated ball. Any quarterback would know that.

 

[Geno-ista]

I'm with Alydar- I respect what Belichek and the Patriots have done. I love Tom Brady as a player and a person. All the things they have done illegally tarnish all the greatness somewhat for me. It's the same old story- just like bailing out the big banks in urge financial crisis. The Patriots are too big to fail. Tom will get a good size fine. Maybe a gm suspension- maybe? the text messages show you that he cheated, but the league gives an unlikely and possible out. It's all about$$$, and proves that cheating really does pay off. And it was cheating. Integrity doesn't mean that much anymore. If it did, we we wouldn't have most of our current elected officials. The balls were under inflated- plain and simple. An advantage was gained.

 

[Kibitzer]

I'm with Alydar- I respect what Belichek and the Patriots have done. I love Tom Brady as a player and a person. All the things they have done illegally tarnish all the greatness somewhat for me. It's the same old story- just like bailing out the big banks in urge financial crisis. The Patriots are too big to fail. Tom will get a good size fine. Maybe a gm suspension- maybe? the text messages show you that he cheated, but the league gives an unlikely and possible out. It's all about$$$, and proves that cheating really does pay off. And it was cheating. Integrity doesn't mean that much anymore. If it did, we we wouldn't have most of our current elected officials. The balls were under inflated- plain and simple. An advantage was gained.

Cheating did not pay off for NFL Atlanta, Cleveland, or New Orleans in the cheating incidents cited in an earlier post:

Atlanta piped crowd noise into the stadium and it cost them big time. New Orleans was punished severely for its bounty program. Ditto Browns GM for texting from stands to sideline. Brady and Belichek are next.

You imply that "most" elected officials are cheaters. It just seems that way.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Reports today indicate that the Pats expect a lengthy suspension for Brady, perhaps 6-8 games. Much is due to the cover-up, which is deemed conduct detrimental to the league.

 

[Icebear]

I hope Brady sues the NFL.

Even if they want to read into posts that Brady wanted the balls soft that does not indicate he wanted them below the legal end of the range at or near 12 pounds. Unless NFL policy states the league can request all emails from every player they are intruding into personal private communications. There is a ton of over reach in this. Instead the league should focus it attention on its own inadequate standards and controls which should have made it impossible for the situation to happen.

 

[pinotbear]

I hope Brady sues the NFL.

I'm glad somebody else feels this way. Either that, or, if Goodell tries to hammer Brady harder than Rice or Petersen, just hold a press conference and say "Screw it. Screw Goodell. Screw the NFL. I've got more than enough money, more than enough records, my life is great, my wife is wonderful, and my kids are adorable. I quit. NOW, since I'm no longer a player, I'm coming after you with both guns drawn: lawsuit, expose', hypocrisy, other teams' dirty tricks, other players' ball tricks, etc. I'm gonna do my damnedest to tear this thing down around Goodell's head."

 

[stamfordhusky]

I'm glad somebody else feels this way. Either that, or, if Goodell tries to hammer Brady harder than Rice or Petersen, just hold a press conference and say "Screw it. Screw Goodell. Screw the NFL. I've got more than enough money, more than enough records, my life is great, my wife is wonderful, and my kids are adorable. I quit. NOW, since I'm no longer a player, I'm coming after you with both guns drawn: lawsuit, expose', hypocrisy, other teams' dirty tricks, other players' ball tricks, etc. I'm gonna do my damnedest to tear this thing down around Goodell's head."

Under the Union agreement he cannot sue the league. And his refusal to cooperate with the investigation assured that he would draw punishment.

 

[NewCorn]

Brady is a super-talented player and a cheat.

 

[stamfordhusky]

I actually think that should be the summary! In that one statement is the sum total of this 100 days of investigation. Everything else is paper thin.

The other issue brought up by his lawyer is interesting - the refusal to turn over his personal phone may in fact have some basis in union rules/precedence.

While he probably does not sue the league, I am sure the union would file a grievance on his behalf. And yes, players can sue the league - it has happened before and will happen again. Signing on to a union and the union being a party to a collective bargaining agreement does not preclude your legal rights in the US courts.

It is possible to sue the league only under limited circumstances. He won't be able to sue in this case.

 

[j66kicker]

It is possible to sue the league only under limited circumstances. He won't be able to sue in this case.

Don Shula comments on 'deflategate' at Dolphins 50 year anniversary celebration:

"Our record in those 50 years was always done with a lot of class, a lot of dignity, a lot of doing it the right way. We didn't deflate any balls."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...nd-patriots-says-miami-dolphins-deflate-balls

Right. Richie Incognito - dignity and class personified...

 

[CL82]

I hope Brady sues the NFL.

Even if they want to read into posts that Brady wanted the balls soft that does not indicate he wanted them below the legal end of the range at or near 12 pounds. Unless NFL policy states the league can request all emails from every player they are intruding into personal private communications. There is a ton of over reach in this. Instead the league should focus it attention on its own inadequate standards and controls which should have made it impossible for the situation to happen.

I suspect that the emails might well be discoverable if he filed suit.

 

[NewCorn]

I suspect that the emails might well be discoverable if he filed suit.

Brady should sue his Sunday School teacher for not getting the message across: "Don't cheat!"