O.T. Wells Report out: "More probable than not Patriots altered footballs", Brady likely aware

[triaddukefan]

The NFL should suspend Brady for 6 games minimum

 

[Icebear]

Much ado about nothing. The NFL should be much more worried about Jameis Winston and the FSU cover up.

 

[CL82]

From the MBB forum thread:

FriarJ said: ↑
Tucked into the last paragraph of the entire report

"In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain."​

upstater said: ↑
....
Here are some pages from the Wells report that are interesting:

Page 198-99 of the report (page 39 Table 10 of the Exponent report). The expected drop in pressure from 70 degrees to 48 is 1.13 for a ball filled to 12.5.

On page 7 of their report, Table 4, the average measured drops at halftime between the two testing officials was 1.39 and 1.01.

Funny stuff, the science was dismissed when their own science lab ... shows balls would drop to that range.
​

 

[Alydar]

Actually it doesn't. Some misinformed people believe that, but they are wrong. It's not really cheating to do something better than everyone else can do.

It's illegal to film opponents' practices.

It's illegal to steal defensive signals.

It's illegal to deflate footballs

The NFL didn't take away a draft pick for NOT breaking the rules. It's a lot easier to be an all-pro quarterback when you know what the defense is going to do before the ball is snapped.

I highly doubt they are the only team to break the rules. In fact cheating is taught in most sports. Any conscious attempt to deceive an official is cheating. Defensive backs are taught how to grab a receiver in a way that officials can't see. Offensive linemen are taught how to hold a defensive player in a way that officials can't see. In basketball, flopping is cheating. Watch any pro sport and you will hear the announcers say "he got away with one there" far too often.

Baseball & football ignored the use of amphetamines for decades. Jim Bouton wrote of the common use of "greenies" over 50 years ago.

It's the American way to extoll victory, in any form and by any means. Cheating is rewarded. Just as long as you don't get caught. Just ask Lance Armstrong.

 

[j66kicker]

It's illegal to film opponents' practices. It's illegal to steal defensive signals. It's illegal to deflate footballs

The NFL didn't take away a draft pick for NOT breaking the rules. It's a lot easier to be an all-pro quarterback when you know what the defense is going to do before the ball is snapped.

Undoubtedly it is. But the receiver still has to get open, and the line still has to protect the quarterback, and the quarterback still has to throw a good pass, and the receiver still has to catch it. Knowing is one thing, but it does no good if you can't execute.

 

[Alydar]

Undoubtedly it is. But the receiver still has to get open, and the line still has to protect the quarterback, and the quarterback still has to throw a good pass, and the receiver still has to catch it. Knowing is one thing, but it does no good if you can't execute.

Sure. But under normal conditions, the quarterback has to read the defense after the snap and then in an instant, know which receiver is going to be open. When you know where the defensive backs are going to go and also know if a blitz is called prior to the snap you can decide where to throw and how quickly you must do it ahead of time and look like a genius when in fact you are a cheat. It's like rewarding your child for stealing a copy of the exam the day before it's administered. The fact that he/she had to memorize the answers in order to get an A doesn't change the fact that they cheated.

 

[UcMiami]

It's illegal to film opponents' practices.

It's illegal to steal defensive signals.

It's illegal to deflate footballs

The NFL didn't take away a draft pick for NOT breaking the rules. It's a lot easier to be an all-pro quarterback when you know what the defense is going to do before the ball is snapped.

I highly doubt they are the only team to break the rules. In fact cheating is taught in most sports. Any conscious attempt to deceive an official is cheating. Defensive backs are taught how to grab a receiver in a way that officials can't see. Offensive linemen are taught how to hold a defensive player in a way that officials can't see. In basketball, flopping is cheating. Watch any pro sport and you will hear the announcers say "he got away with one there" far too often.

Baseball & football ignored the use of amphetamines for decades. Jim Bouton wrote of the common use of "greenies" over 50 years ago.

It's the American way to extoll victory, in any form and by any means. Cheating is rewarded. Just as long as you don't get caught. Just ask Lance Armstrong.

It is illegal to film opponents practices - true, but I do not believe there is any proof that the Pat's did so.
It is not illegal to steal signals - it is illegal to film from a non-designated location during games which is what the Pat's did (it is legal to film from a designated location or was.)
It is illegal to deflate footballs - and the extent of a 100 day investigation says it is MORE PROBABLE that they did, than that they did not - not exactly a damning indictment.

 

[stamfordhusky]

From CBS Sports:

"
Tom Brady's offseason might extend until 2016 if the NFL decides to drop the proverbial hammer on the Patriots quarterback and at least one report is indicating that the league could slam the hammer down hard.
According to the Miami Herald, Brady could be suspended for up to one year thanks to the part he played in Deflategate. "Everything is being studied. Everything is being considered," an NFL source told theHerald. . . .

Brady's refusal to help the investigation could end up being one of the big reasons he's hit with a potentially big suspension. In the NFL's Policy on Integrity of the Game & Enforcement of Competitive Rules, the league notes that "Failure to cooperate in an investigation shall be considered conduct detrimental to the League and will subject the offending club and responsible individual(s) to appropriate discipline."

Brady's decision to not fully cooperate in the investigation was duly noted in the Wells report. "Brady's refusal to provide us with his own emails, text messages and phone records on relevant topics, in response to our narrowly tailored requests, limited the evidence available for our review and analysis," the report said.

 

[stamfordhusky]

It is illegal to deflate footballs - and the extent of a 100 day investigation says it is MORE PROBABLE that they did, than that they did not - not exactly a damning indictment.

Lawyer-speak. It is also more probable than not that the earth travels around the sun and more probable than not that UConn's women's team will not be winless next year.

 

[willtalk]

The investigators were not affiliated with the NFL which is something in their favor. The also were working sans warrants so could only request information so it not surprising that they couldn't come up with anything solid. I think most of the damning information came from the emails that were exchanged between the employee's. If people are really interested they should read the entire report because cherry picking the information can easily done to prevaricate and create a distorted picture. Some one brought up texts in respect to over inflating the balls. Obviously just those employee' venting about Brady's pickyness. It was obvious that they were not serious in that respect. Put into context with the other texts it tends to support that Brady knew and encouraged it. UcMiami while I agree totally with your take on the incompetence of the NFL, it does not change the evidence the Wells report actually got in respect to the attempt by the Patriot's to alter the balls. The competence or incompetence does not really impact what they appear to have done. Some of the responses to the Wells report seem to be a lawyers tactic to confuse the actual issue by redirecting the focus to the irrelevant. This was done very successfully in the OJ murder trial. The fact remains that the incompetence of the NFL is what provided the opportunity for the cheating but shouldn't be used as justification.

It is not surprising that the NFL is run by incompetents. I mean they have their players run their agility and speed tests in the combine in shorts and on a track. When was the last time you saw an NFL player in a game wearing only shorts. I mean how much brains would it take to figure out that wearing all the football gear would impact each players agility, speed and quickness differently. Especially players like WR's who are generally smaller and weaker than the rest of the team, and rely more on their quickness and speed. I mean the history of the league has shown it takes them forever to get a clue about the obvious.

 

[Alydar]

It is illegal to film opponents practices - true, but I do not believe there is any proof that the Pat's did so.
It is not illegal to steal signals - it is illegal to film from a non-designated location during games which is what the Pat's did (it is legal to film from a designated location or was.)
It is illegal to deflate footballs - and the extent of a 100 day investigation says it is MORE PROBABLE that they did, than that they did not - not exactly a damning indictment.

This is not a criminal investigation where proof must be "beyond a reasonable doubt". It's a civil case, or more exactly, an administrative case where the standard is "more likely than not".

 

[meyers7]

It's illegal to film opponents' practices.

It's illegal to steal defensive signals.

It's illegal to deflate footballs

Whether something is legal or not does not have to do with cheating. Don't worry lot's of people have trouble understanding this concept.

It's a lot easier to be an all-pro quarterback when you know what the defense is going to do before the ball is snapped.

Of course it is. But that's not cheating. All QB's try to do that. Read the defense. Some are better than others. That's why teams, offense and defense study film, watch games. Same with basketball. Ralph, CD, Mosely do that. Not cheating.

 

[meyers7]

Lawyer-speak.

Exactly, if they actually had proof, they wouldn't have said it like that.

 

[Alydar]

Whether something is legal or not does not have to do with cheating. Don't worry lot's of people have trouble understanding this concept.


Of course it is. But that's not cheating. All QB's try to do that. Read the defense. Some are better than others. That's why teams, offense and defense study film, watch games. Same with basketball. Ralph, CD, Mosely do that. Not cheating.

There's a huge difference between reading the defense and having your defensive coordinator tell you the defensive calls through the speaker in your helmet. Especially when that knowledge was obtained through means clearly against the rules.

 

[j66kicker]

From CBS Sports:

"
Tom Brady's offseason might extend until 2016 if the NFL decides to drop the proverbial hammer on the Patriots quarterback and at least one report is indicating that the league could slam the hammer down hard.
According to the Miami Herald, Brady could be suspended for up to one year thanks to the part he played in Deflategate. "Everything is being studied. Everything is being considered," an NFL source told theHerald. . . .

If Brady gets suspended for enough games to materially affect their chances of making the playoffs (>4 games?) based on "probably", then he should sue the NFL with the full power of Gisele's resources.

 

[willtalk]

It's illegal to film opponents' practices.

It's illegal to steal defensive signals.

It's illegal to deflate footballs

The NFL didn't take away a draft pick for NOT breaking the rules. It's a lot easier to be an all-pro quarterback when you know what the defense is going to do before the ball is snapped.

I highly doubt they are the only team to break the rules. In fact cheating is taught in most sports. Any conscious attempt to deceive an official is cheating. Defensive backs are taught how to grab a receiver in a way that officials can't see. Offensive linemen are taught how to hold a defensive player in a way that officials can't see. In basketball, flopping is cheating. Watch any pro sport and you will hear the announcers say "he got away with one there" far too often.

Baseball & football ignored the use of amphetamines for decades. Jim Bouton wrote of the common use of "greenies" over 50 years ago.

It's the American way to extol victory, in any form and by any means. Cheating is rewarded. Just as long as you don't get caught. Just ask Lance Armstrong.

That's true but sad. There was a time when sportsmanship meant fair play. Sports were used by society to promote fairness and build character. Not anymore. It's now all about winning at any cost. Interesting that colleges seem to have been promoting negative aspects of sports for quite some time. Rivals are not seen as competition but as the enemy, who is continued to be hated not just after the game is over but also long after graduation. This creates a pattern for selective vilification in-order to justify an institutionally justified prejudice towards a select group of people. Right being loyal to your school ( or group) justifies bigotry. That is the foundation for all bias and bigotry but it's ok when done in the context of the college environment. Just a carry over from the Aristocratic Class distinctive culture which was promoted through the English school system. Americans thought they had left Class distinctions behind them, but it was kept alive and well in our institutions of higher learning. This creates the idea of having different standards for how we treat our friends and all others - especially our enemies. Win at any cost when playing our rivals.

 

[meyers7]

There's a huge difference between reading the defense and having your defensive coordinator tell you the defensive calls through the speaker in your helmet. Especially when that knowledge was obtained through means clearly against the rules.

Nice try. You guys really are unbelievable. What did Brady and Belichick and the Pats ever do to you? Were you dating Gisele or something?

 

[j66kicker]

That's true but sad. There was a time when sportsmanship meant fair play. Sports were used by society to promote fairness and build character. Not anymore. It's now all about winning at any cost. Interesting that colleges seem to have been promoting negative aspects of sports for quite some time. Rivals are not seen as competition but as the enemy, who is continued to be hated not just after the game is over but also long after graduation. This creates a pattern for selective vilification in-order to justify an institutionally justified prejudice towards a select group of people. Right being loyal to your school ( or group) justifies bigotry. That is the foundation for all bias and bigotry but it's ok when done in the context of the college environment. Just a carry over from the Aristocratic Class distinctive culture which was promoted through the English school system. Americans thought they had left Class distinctions behind them, but it was kept alive and well in our institutions of higher learning.

So my dislike of orange is prejudice and bigotry?

 

[willtalk]

So my dislike of orange is prejudice and bigotry?

If you allow it to influence your objectivity in judgement of people who like orange in area's that have nothing to do with color.

 

[j66kicker]

If you allow it to influence your objectivity in judgement of people who like orange in area's that have nothing to do with color.

I've grown less fond of green too over the past few years. And I can't stand Skylar Diggins. And there's nothing the least bit objective about any of these feelings. But I don't think that makes me bigoted or prejudiced.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

"Brady's refusal to provide us with his own emails, text messages and phone records on relevant topics, in response to our narrowly tailored requests, limited the evidence available for our review and analysis," the report said.

That's all I need to hear on the subject. It is easy to protest innocence behind a stone wall.

 

[Aluminny69]

The problem was with the protocol: Why did the Refs let the balls out of their possession AFTER they checked the balls? That doesn't happen in Baseball.

Soooo, unless they double check the inflation for EVERY team, it doesn't seem fair to me to single out the Patriots for punishment. I don't believe they even checked the pressure of the Colts balls used in the very same game! How can you impose a penalty on one team, when you NEVER ever checked the inflation of ANY other team?

 

[Kibitzer]

I am posting as a national tv audience awaits Tom Brady's comments about "DeflateGate."

I think he should simply sing a couple verses (and the refrain, loudly) of "I Did It MY WAY!"

 

[UConn990411]

Yes, after the investigators had developed new information, the Pats refused access to this employee. In any investigation, as more info is turned up, it is necessary to go back to ask new questions. Why would the Pats deny access except to cover up something? I am sure this lack of cooperation will cause a little additional punishment to be meted out.

As for Brady, it is his constitutional right to not turn over texts, emails, etc. However if he doesnt' want the investigators to make the logical conclusion about his guilt - and if he has nothing to hide - he would cooperate. I would gladly bet a lot of money at 100:1 odds that he is guilty as hell.

As for competency, Ted Wells has an extremely good reputation as a criminal attorney and he hired some very competent people to assist him. This was not the NFL's product.

Actually, the Pats were well within their right to refuse the fifth interview.

But other than that, you're wrong.

 

[Ouremblem]

I'm still puzzled by the assertion that Brady gained an advantage by lowering the balls psis. An argument can be made he was at a disadvantage by the elements that day, and qb's like Aikman and Bradshaw held a huge advantage with their huge hands. Some offensive linemen hold better than others & seldom get called. Richard Sherman was caught on tape showing how he held receivers and didn't get called. Suddenly no one cheats when they can? Please!