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OT: NY Giants

auror said:
Or draft Josh Allen or Oliver, gamble that your guy is there at 17. If he's not, trade down to the 2nd, trade that for Rosen, and pocket the asset difference.
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This make WAAAYYY too much sense for Gettleman to do.....or take your 17 and and some of your other 10 picks and move up a few spots..
 
Deepster said:
Sounds like Chip Kelly in Philly a little. Doing things that no one else understands, hoping to throw it back in everyone's face. That one didn't work, hard to see this one working.

Similar situation over in Oakland. Firing your scouts before the draft, then taking 2 first rounders that are gambles. Gruden also likes to think he's smarter than anyone....even though he won once with Tony Dungy's team.
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Except a bunch of chips guys won the Superbowl...
 
tcf15 said:
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I still don't like it but at least they had enough conviction to take him with #6. The reality is that no one knows how he's going to be.
 
I want them to give Jones, and by extension Gettleman, a trial by fire this year. If Jones looks terrible, get rid of Gettleman and just draft Tua.

But that's not how Mara operates. He gave Reese way too long of a leash, then complimented that with a horrible hire to follow. Gettleman sucks, but I have no faith in the ownership anymore either.

I actually like Shurmur, but knowing the Giants he'll be the first scapegoat to go.
 
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UConnStats said:
I want them to give Jones, and by extension Gettleman, a trial by fire this year. If Jones looks terrible, get rid of Gettleman and just draft Tua.

But that's not how Mara operates. He gave Reese way too long of a leash, then complimented that with a horrible hire to follow. Gettleman sucks, but I have no faith in the ownership anymore either.

I actually like Shurmur, but knowing the Giants he'll be the first scapegoat to go.
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Give em two years and then trade the farm for Trevor Lawrence and get a new HC. Tua is gonna flop
 
UConnStats said:
I want them to give Jones, and by extension Gettleman, a trial by fire this year. If Jones looks terrible, get rid of Gettleman and just draft Tua.

But that's not how Mara operates. He gave Reese way too long of a leash, then complimented that with a horrible hire to follow. Gettleman sucks, but I have no faith in the ownership anymore either.

I actually like Shurmur, but knowing the Giants he'll be the first scapegoat to go.
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They've already set in the works Eli for another 3 years then Jones will take over. Giants fans are going to hate Eli and the whole Manning family at the end of this and the Giants have probably set themselves back for a decade.
 
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JMick said:
Give em two years and then trade the farm for Trevor Lawrence and get a new HC. Tua is gonna flop
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Fine by me as well
superjohn said:
They've already set in the works Eli for another 3 years than Jones will take over. Giants fans are going to hate Eli and the whole Manning family at the end of this and the Giants have probably set themselves back for a decade.
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If they actually do that 3 year BS they're insane, but nothing would surprise me at this point. The Giants have already been really bad for almost a decade (one good year mixed in), and it's only getting worse. It's brutal watching them deteriorate as the GM is actively thinking backwards and bragging about it. The front office just puts out the dreaded Raiders vibe now.
 
Not a good comparison to use stats of a guy (Haskins)who plays at a great program with every player a highly sought recruit with a guy(Jones)who plays at Duke. Jones was not my guy. If he was their guy and they felt he is the QB of the future, you draft where you draft.
 
UConnStats said:
Fine by me as well

If they actually do that 3 year BS they're insane, but nothing would surprise me at this point. The Giants have already been really bad for almost a decade (one good year mixed in), and it's only getting worse. It's brutal watching them deteriorate as the GM is actively thinking backwards and bragging about it.
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Honestly I think the best, worst case scenario for this season is to start Eli until the bye, switch to Jones, finish 3-13, trade your top 5 2020 pick and grab more picks for 2021.
 
Solid listen here for anyone looking for more information on DJ (recorded on April 9th):

"What could he be if everything clicks and everything goes perfect? Matt Ryan"

Here's hoping.
podcasts.apple.com

Daniel Jones 360

Podcast Episode · NFL: Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah & Bucky Brooks · April 9, 2019 · 1h 11m
podcasts.apple.com podcasts.apple.com
 
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Madmannsucks said:
Not a good comparison to use stats of a guy (Haskins)who plays at a great program with every player a highly sought recruit with a guy(Jones)who plays at Duke. Jones was not my guy. If he was their guy and they felt he is the QB of the future, you draft where you draft.
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There is no way you draft him at 6, even if you like him more than Haskins you would have Jones at 17. Nobody else was taking quarterbacks. You take Josh Allen, you take Ed Oliver, you take Christian Wilkinson etc. These are all dire need positions for the Giants and these are all dynamic players at those positions. Giants don't take a QB last year in a stacked QB draft and they reach like crazy on a QB in a horrible QB draft.

Don't try and make sense of idiocy.
 
superjohn said:
There is no way you draft him at 6, even if you like him more than Haskins you would have Jones at 17. Nobody else was taking quarterbacks. You take Josh Allen, you take Ed Oliver, you take Christian Wilkinson etc. These are all dire need positions for the Giants and these are all dynamic players at those positions. Giants don't take a QB last year in a stacked QB draft and they reach like crazy on a QB in a horrible QB draft.

Don't try and make sense of idiocy.
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Not at all. Giants draft graded pretty well last few years.....never really translated on the field. Maybe the experts don't know as much. Saying he was rated the 59th best player is picking and choosing which reviewer you use. Not saying you said that. But heard some pundits saying that. I am not defending the pick...just playing devil's advocate. So posters act like they are experts because they watch morning sports talk, but do little or no research.
 
Madmannsucks said:
Not a good comparison to use stats of a guy (Haskins)who plays at a great program with every player a highly sought recruit with a guy(Jones)who plays at Duke. Jones was not my guy. If he was their guy and they felt he is the QB of the future, you draft where you draft.
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superjohn said:
There is no way you draft him at 6, even if you like him more than Haskins you would have Jones at 17. Nobody else was taking quarterbacks. You take Josh Allen, you take Ed Oliver, you take Christian Wilkinson etc. These are all dire need positions for the Giants and these are all dynamic players at those positions. Giants don't take a QB last year in a stacked QB draft and they reach like crazy on a QB in a horrible QB draft.

Don't try and make sense of idiocy.
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The underlying idiocy is that he's definitely not a sure-fire prospect. The Giants have admitted that, which is why they want to do the Aaron Rodgers/Mahomes plan and give him time to develop. The stats obviously back up that he wasn't can't miss, since he had pretty bad production. So the stats say it and the Giants say it.

So if he's a risky pick, you might as well take the risk that he'll be there later so you don't have to use as much draft capital and salary cap space on him.

To summarize: They were afraid their risky pick wouldn't be there later. It's not good draft strategy.
 
Madmannsucks said:
Not at all. Giants draft graded pretty well last few years.....never really translated on the field. Maybe the experts don't know as much. Saying he was rated the 59th best player is picking and choosing which reviewer you use. Not saying you said that. But heard some pundits saying that. I am not defending the pick...just playing devil's advocate. So posters act like they are experts because they watch morning sports talk, but do little or no research.
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Well neither the scouting reports or actual numbers, even adjusted for his team/situation, look favorable for Jones. He was taken at 6 on the faith of the front office, which holds very little weight in Giants fans’ eyes right now.
 
Madmannsucks said:
Not at all. Giants draft graded pretty well last few years.....never really translated on the field. Maybe the experts don't know as much. Saying he was rated the 59th best player is picking and choosing which reviewer you use. Not saying you said that. But heard some pundits saying that. I am not defending the pick...just playing devil's advocate. So posters act like they are experts because they watch morning sports talk, but do little or no research.
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But this has nothing to do with draft grades and player rankings. They took a player at 6 they very likely could have had at 17. That's mismanagement. Full stop.
 
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Madmannsucks said:
Not at all. Giants draft graded pretty well last few years.....never really translated on the field. Maybe the experts don't know as much. Saying he was rated the 59th best player is picking and choosing which reviewer you use. Not saying you said that. But heard some pundits saying that. I am not defending the pick...just playing devil's advocate. So posters act like they are experts because they watch morning sports talk, but do little or no research.
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Don't listen to pundits, watch him play. Gettleman said he wouldn't reach, he reached terribly. Gettleman said he never watched Jones but then watched him play 3 series in the senior bowl (completely meaningless game) and got a BFieldHusky for him. Gettleman says Jones could be watching Eli for 3 years and he wants to model it after what Green Bay did with Favre and Rodgers.

There is a chance the guy could turn out to be really good, average, or horrible but even if he turns out really good taking him at #6 is a horrible pick. There is no way around that.
 
navery12 said:
But this has nothing to do with draft grades and player rankings. They took a player at 6 they very likely could have had at 17. That's mismanagement. Full stop.
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I think he would have been a second day pick.
 
NJHusky said:
This make WAAAYYY too much sense for Gettleman to do.....or take your 17 and and some of your other 10 picks and move up a few spots..
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I thought I read that Dave Gettleman had never traded back in a draft. Incredible.

Nah, Dave, you're doing great, sweetie. You're right. Everyone else is wrong.
 
zls44 said:
I thought I read that Dave Gettleman had never traded back in a draft. Incredible.

Nah, Dave, you're doing great, sweetie. You're right. Everyone else is wrong.
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I believe it's true. He's never traded back in his career as GM
 
Either way, bottom line is Gettleman better be right. Only time will tell.
Last year the Browns to Denzel Ward and they were widely criticized. He had a pretty good rookie year. You pick where you pick. If they waited till 17, he might have been there...or he might not have. He is either the heir apparent or a bust. We can all guess on that one.
 
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superjohn said:
Gettleman says Jones could be watching Eli for 3 years and he wants to model it after what Green Bay did with Favre and Rodgers.
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Rodgers was the 24th Pick...not 6th....and Brett was 36, not 38....and a much better QB
 
navery12 said:
But this has nothing to do with draft grades and player rankings. They took a player at 6 they very likely could have had at 17. That's mismanagement. Full stop.
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It's like saying we really like this house...We can buy it for 500k, but since we really like it, let's pay 750k so we get it.

Instead of paying a QB second round money, you have to pay him #6 money..along with paying Eli 25m this year.
 
UConnStats said:
I want them to give Jones, and by extension Gettleman, a trial by fire this year. If Jones looks terrible, get rid of Gettleman and just draft Tua.

But that's not how Mara operates. He gave Reese way too long of a leash, then complimented that with a horrible hire to follow. Gettleman sucks, but I have no faith in the ownership anymore either.

I actually like Shurmur, but knowing the Giants he'll be the first scapegoat to go.
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Not defending the pick or DG, but most QBs aren't ready year one, especially with no D to take the heat off.
 
They were going through the last 25 years of the draft on the NFL network, naming who, in their opinion, ended up being the best player from each draft. More times than not the player who turned out to be the best was not selected in the first round. They stated that if this draft follows history, the best player in this draft will be selected today.
 
Devland said:
They were going through the last 25 years of the draft on the NFL network, naming who, in their opinion, ended up being the best player from each draft. More times than not the player who turned out to be the best was not selected in the first round. They stated that if this draft follows history, the best player in this draft will be selected today.
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Good thing the Giants gave up 37 and a lot more and now don't draft until 95
 
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