Notre Dame lamenting conference realignment - Hockey

[Irishfan]

Odd that the one person I feel I have to respond to in this thread is named Irishfan.

"considering our lack of success in any sport over the past 20 years . . ."

Notre Dame Athletics over the past 20 years:

Football - 4 BCS appearances
M Basketball - *sigh* (at least we're doing OK this year)
W Basketball - 5 Final Fours, 1 leading to a National Championship
M Soccer - 1 National Championship
W Soccer - 8 Finals, 3 leading to National Championships
M Lacrosse - 3 Final Fours
W Lacrosse - 1 Final Four
Baseball - 1 College World Series
Softball - 16 consecutive appearances in the NCAA Tourney
M Ice Hockey - 2 Frozen Fours
Fencing - 3 National Championships

By the way, if I got to make a decision on ND and Conference Realignment, I would want UConn and ND to finish off the B1G at 16 schools. We have a "national" student body, but the vast majority come from either the Midwest or Northeast. Most of our alumni are in the Midwest or Northeast. The B1G would have a presence from DC to New England. It's perfect for us if only our older alumni didn't hold such a grudge against the B1G (and really, I doubt the students/administrations of the school in the southern half ACC were any more inclined to help a Catholic school around 1910 than were their counterparts in the B1G).

I certainly didn't intend to offend with my comment, but conversations about conference realignment includes football and little else. And as an independent, winning a national championship is the only goal. Losing a BCS game is nothing to hang your hat on. Even the NC game (when you get crushed). While we have had success in some other sports, national championships in soccer, fencing and women's basketball are great, but they don't mean a lot when deciding which conference to join. As an older alumnus I probably do hold a grudge, as we were still looking for an invite as recently as the 60's. So while not totally out of the question, a move to the big 10 is not something that I would like to see happen.

 

[Seaa Blue]

By the way, if I got to make a decision on ND and Conference Realignment, I would want UConn and ND to finish off the B1G at 16 schools.

I think @TerryD just revoked your Irish green card.

Come back @TerryD. You're letting me have too much fun.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

By the way, if I got to make a decision on ND and Conference Realignment, I would want UConn and ND to finish off the B1G at 16 schools. We have a "national" student body, but the vast majority come from either the Midwest or Northeast. Most of our alumni are in the Midwest or Northeast. The B1G would have a presence from DC to New England. It's perfect for us if only our older alumni didn't hold such a grudge against the B1G (and really, I doubt the students/administrations of the school in the southern half ACC were any more inclined to help a Catholic school around 1910 than were their counterparts in the B1G).

ND, UCONN, Rutty, Mary-land, State Penn, Purdue, Michigan State, Northwestern

Theeeee Ohio State, Meechigan, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nebraska

Crossover games:

MSU-UM
UCONN-UMinn
Purdue-Indiana
PSU-UN-L
Northwestern-Illini
UMD-OSU
RU-Wisky
Domers-Hawkeyes


The teams that ND have been most comfortable with plus the Eastern schools would be a natural division for them. That leaves the Big 2 in the other division. Ten conference games in total.

That is...if it actually happens, which we knew is very unlikely.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

We don't require special accommodations, but people seem willing to give them to us. Why shouldn't we take advantage of accommodations that people make available

Saying ND does not demand special accommodation (see the old Big E and the current ACC) is like saying that Mark Emmert does not hold a grudge against UConn. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Kolumbo]

We shouldn't pile on ND. Its athletics are good but not better than the other top programs. It clearly asks for and receives special accommodations. It's so easy to be a ND fan when the program gets a head start. Heck, if I didn't have a dog in the race, maybe I'd root for ND too. OK, let's not get crazy.

 

[pj]

ND, UCONN, Rutty, Mary-land, State Penn, Purdue, Michigan State, Northwestern

Theeeee Ohio State, Meechigan, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nebraska

Crossover games:

MSU-UM
UCONN-UMinn
Purdue-Indiana
PSU-UN-L
Northwestern-Illini
UMD-OSU
RU-Wisky
Domers-Hawkeyes


The teams that ND have been most comfortable with plus the Eastern schools would be a natural division for them. That leaves the Big 2 in the other division. Ten conference games in total.

That is...if it actually happens, which we knew is very unlikely.

Good plan. The western schools would like having Michigan and OSU on their side; the eastern schools would like having Notre Dame. Purdue, Northwestern, and Michigan State might not like it.

 

[CL82]

We don't require special accommodations, but people seem willing to give them to us. Why shouldn't we take advantage of accommodations that people make available. If the big 10 offers UConn an opportunity to join, would you decline the invitation if Houston or SMU said your leaving would ruin the AAC. My guess is that you would jump at the opportunity.

I wish I could disagree with this post, but I can't. You guys are a parasite. The Big East elevated you MBB and WBB, you could have helped to stabilize it and you didn't. UConn athletics was hurt quite badly by that failure, so clearly I'm not a fan of the Irish. But, that said, you have no obligation to help the conferences that you are in, so I can't fault you for your pursuit of your won self interest, even though it was a contributing factor to the demise of the greatest MBB conference of all time.

 

[B1GOSU]

The B1G is about equal treatment for all conference members. Notre Dame, and Texas for that matter, have shown they have no intentions of being treated equally to anyone else. Both schools are cancers to any conference they are in and I hope the B1G stays far away from both schools for that reason.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

Good plan. The western schools would like having Michigan and OSU on their side; the eastern schools would like having Notre Dame. Purdue, Northwestern, and Michigan State might not like it.

The two Big Ten schools that have been the friendliest towards ND are Sparty and Purdue.

 

[pj]

The two Big Ten schools that have been the friendliest towards ND are Sparty and Purdue.

Yes, I'm sure they'd like having Notre Dame and vice versa, but they might not be thrilled to lose Ohio State, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois in exchange for UConn, Rutgers, PSU, Maryland. Purdue is located a mere 89 miles from the Univ of Illinois and 113 miles from Indiana University. They are 760 miles from Rutgers, 893 miles from UConn, and 635 miles from Maryland.

I think a pod format rather than a divisional format might be more likely:
- UConn, Rutgers, Maryland, Penn State
- Ohio State, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois
- Michigan State, Notre Dame, Purdue, Northwestern
- Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska

This keeps ND with Purdue and Mich State, keeps Ohio State and Michigan together, and has more regional contiguity.

 

[Irishfan]

The B1G is about equal treatment for all conference members. Notre Dame, and Texas for that matter, have shown they have no intentions of being treated equally to anyone else. Both schools are cancers to any conference they are in and I hope the B1G stays far away from both schools for that reason.

So why do my friends from Nebraska claim that they are getting screwed by the big ten with respect to equal treatment by the conference.

 

[Seaa Blue]

So why do my friends from Nebraska claim that they are getting screwed by the big ten with respect to equal treatment by the conference.

It takes 6 or 7 years of withholdings to "buy" a full equity share of BTN. They won't get a full payout until that point. The founding BTN partners had direct expenses and sacrificed some TV revenue in starting up BTN.

In the meantime Nebraska's former Big 12 friends have surpassed them in league payouts, but in a few years they will more than make up for that.

 

[Irishfan]

It takes 6 or 7 years of withholdings to "buy" a full equity share of BTN. They won't get a full payout until that point. The founding BTN partners had direct expenses and sacrificed some TV revenue in starting up BTN.

In the meantime Nebraska's former Big 12 friends have surpassed them in league payouts, but in a few years they will more than make up for that.

So B1gosu was just kidding when he said there was equal treatment for all conference members in the big ten. Evidently the big ten like the ACC treats different teams differently. They just don't like to admit it.

 

[Pat125]

So B1gosu was just kidding when he said there was equal treatment for all conference members in the big ten. Evidently the big ten like the ACC treats different teams differently. They just don't like to admit it.

Not sure about that. Which Big Ten members who have joined since the BTN was formed were given full shares right away? Or allowed a new member to be independent in football, but still be able to take a bowl spot from a full member?

 

[Seaa Blue]

So B1gosu was just kidding when he said there was equal treatment for all conference members in the big ten. Evidently the big ten like the ACC treats different teams differently. They just don't like to admit it.

Read carefully what I said.

BTN was a huge risk. The Big Ten took it, and it's been imitated been never duplicated. If the new members had the cash the could just buy in and get their full payout. In Maryland's case they took more cash up front, less later.

3 years from now everyone will be very happy. A partial payout will be more than other conferences' full payout.

 

[billybud]

Not sure about that. Which Big Ten members who have joined since the BTN was formed were given full shares right away? Or allowed a new member to be independent in football, but still be able to take a bowl spot from a full member?

Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, et al..received full shares of ACC distribution immediately. The B1G does have a different philosophy...Rutgers and Maryland will receive full distribution shares in the 20-21 academic year.

 

[Ldandy]

I think most ND fans believe that Hockey's impact on Notre Dame's decision on joining a conference is about the same as women's interhall softball. That is, it doesn't come into the conversation. With respect to the big 10, I don't want to be there, it would perpetuate the idea that we are a Midwestern program competing with Michigan and Wisconsin and not the USC's, LSU's and FSU's of the world. That said, if conference realignment continues on its current path, it might be something that would make sense for us, so I would never rule it out. But with all that said, and considering our lack of success in any sport over the past 20 years, why does anyone care if we do or don't join a conference.

The only people that don't consider Notre Dame a Midwestern Program are Notre Dame Fans. Its a shared delusion kept sacred among Domers. Personally I don't care whether ND ever joins the B1G or not, but the reasons that they should are painfully obvious to anyone who doesn't have shamrocks in their eyes.

 

[Pat125]

Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, et al..received full shares of ACC distribution immediately. The B1G does have a different philosophy...Rutgers and Maryland will receive full distribution shares in the 20-21 academic year.

If and when the ACC Network happens, and if the ACC gives full shares to new members after that point then I'll agree with you that the ACC and Big Ten have different philosophies regarding this issue.

 

[Irishfan]

The only people that don't consider Notre Dame a Midwestern Program are Notre Dame Fans. Its a shared delusion kept sacred among Domers. Personally I don't care whether ND ever joins the B1G or not, but the reasons that they should are painfully obvious to anyone who doesn't have shamrocks in their eyes.

I don't disagree with you at all. People consider ND to be a Midwestern program and they think the big ten is a Midwestern conference, and therefore we are a perfect match. But that is the same issue that UConn fans are fighting. Is it more of a delusion to think ND should be in the ACC or that UConn should be in the big ten. UConn fans like the idea of being in a midwestern conference, and ND fans like the idea of not being in a Midwestern conference.

 

[kyleslamb]

If and when the ACC Network happens, and if the ACC gives full shares to new members after that point then I'll agree with you that the ACC and Big Ten have different philosophies regarding this issue.

Yea that was not an apples to apples comparison. The new B1G members (Nebraska, Rutgers, Maryland) all received full shares in conference revenue except for the BTN payouts. Those were treated differently because it involved equity.

 

[Irishfan]

If and when the ACC Network happens, and if the ACC gives full shares to new members after that point then I'll agree with you that the ACC and Big Ten have different philosophies regarding this issue.

B1gosu stated that the big ten was all about treating all of their teams equally. We were just pointing out that they don't. I never said the the ACC treated all their teams the same, just that the big ten does treat teams differently.

 

[kyleslamb]

B1gosu stated that the big ten was all about treating all of their teams equally. We were just pointing out that they don't. I never said the the ACC treated all their teams the same, just that the big ten does treat teams differently.

It doesn't seem you're grasping the rationale of what he's saying. They do treat teams equally.

The original 11 members that started the BTN, had to pay expenses to start up the network out of their own pocket before receiving a share of revenue. Likewise, the three new members are having similar amounts withheld, deducing the original shares by the new amounts, as a buy-in to become full shareholding members and thereby creating equality in the amount each program contributed.

In other words, the Big Ten is making it to where the new members are investing the same way the other 11 had to invest. There's no inequality about that concept.

 

[Fishy]

I don't disagree with you at all. People consider ND to be a Midwestern program and they think the big ten is a Midwestern conference, and therefore we are a perfect match. But that is the same issue that UConn fans are fighting. Is it more of a delusion to think ND should be in the ACC or that UConn should be in the big ten. UConn fans like the idea of being in a midwestern conference, and ND fans like the idea of not being in a Midwestern conference.

We like the idea of not being in the AAC. We'd like the idea of being in the PAC12 if that's what it takes.

Originally, I don't think anyone would have argued that the ACC was the best fit for UConn, but given the dedication with which that conference and some of our former conference mates have seen to the attempted destruction of our athletic program, our preferences have changed.

On the Big Ten, they treat their members the same - but newbies have to pay down the investment existing members have already made in the Big Ten Network, etc. New ACC teams just have to be able to fit ESPN's teat in their mouth - there's no equity cost involved there.

 

[Irishfan]

We like the idea of not being in the AAC. We'd like the idea of being in the PAC12 if that's what it takes.

Originally, I don't think anyone would have argued that the ACC was the best fit for UConn, but given the dedication with which that conference and some of our former conference mates have seen to the attempted destruction of our athletic program, our preferences have changed.

On the Big Ten, they treat their members the same - but newbies have to pay down the investment existing members have already made in the Big Ten Network, etc. New ACC teams just have to be able to fit ESPN's teat in their mouth - there's no equity cost involved there.

So UConn doesn't want to be in the ACC for the same reason that ND doesn't want to be in the big ten. At what point should UConn get over their treatment by those ACC teams that didn't want them. I'm still not ready to get past the way ND was treated. Maybe some day (but not yet).

 

[pj]

So UConn doesn't want to be in the ACC for the same reason that ND doesn't want to be in the big ten. At what point should UConn get over their treatment by those ACC teams that didn't want them. I'm still not ready to get past the way ND was treated. Maybe some day (but not yet).

When the ACC invites us, we'll get over our mistreatment in about 24 hours.

Until then, we're going to try to make ourselves attractive to the B1G.

 

[Fishy]

So UConn doesn't want to be in the ACC for the same reason that ND doesn't want to be in the big ten. At what point should UConn get over their treatment by those ACC teams that didn't want them. I'm still not ready to get past the way ND was treated. Maybe some day (but not yet).

This is why people absolutely cannot stand Notre Dame fans - you're thick as f--- and almost unbearably narcissistic.

You think Notre Dame was mistreated by the Big Ten?

Son, spend a day in our shoes.

We'd go to the ACC in a flat heartbeat even though you and the rest of them gleefully burned our house down around us.

 

[Irishfan]

So you go from saying you don't want to be in the ACC to saying you'd go in a heartbeat. And you think we are hard to understand.

 

[Fishy]

So you go from saying you don't want to be in the ACC to saying you'd go in a heartbeat. And you think we are hard to understand.

Did you go to Notre Dame? You seem too dumb.

I said we'd go anywhere.

 

[itgoeslike]

Yea that was not an apples to apples comparison. The new B1G members (Nebraska, Rutgers, Maryland) all received full shares in conference revenue except for the BTN payouts. Those were treated differently because it involved equity.

Nebraska's shortfall has averaged about $10M while BTN payouts have averaged around $8M. I suppose if they are projecting an increase in BTN revenue over the next three years and the delta for Nebraska stays at $10M it could balance itself out. There are other exclusions beyond the BTN. Also, each of the schools integration plans are different and somewhat dependent on exit fees and the revenue of the previous conference. Maryland front loaded their deal and had the most leverage of all the schools. Of course, at the end of the day, all the schools stand to make far more than they would have in their previous conferences.

Edit: It's also possible that the buy-in exceeds the current BTN payouts.

 

[Irishfan]

Did you go to Notre Dame? You seem too dumb.

I said we'd go anywhere.

Does it really matter if I went to ND? Most ND fans didn't go to ND, which I see as a good thing.