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I hear you. Had a similar thought along with is it worth the risk, as the draft is not long after the tournament.
Notre Dame 2023-24 Season (merged)
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Was so happy to see Citron receive All Conference recognition - her quiet excellence sometimes goes unnoticed. Fabulous player. A more talented version of IA’s Martin, who does a little bit of everything and is never without poise.
She is a great player. The fact that she has been able to bounce back to playing at that level should not be taken for granted. Her injury might not have been as bad as it looked at first but spraining a knee and missing 7 weeks during the season is a significant setback to have to work back from. It’s great to see her return to form recently.
Agree Martin is similar. She doesn’t get enough credit for being Clark’s “sidekick”. I saw the Big 10 Championship game and while Clark had over 30 points, it was Martin’s clutch 3s and Gabbie Marshall’s 2 huge perimeter blocks that really felt like they sealed the game for Iowa. But now I’m off topic. My point is I appreciate these type of glue players.
Dillon77
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I thought Caroline Ducharme was playing a similar role to Martin (Iowa) and Citron (ND) for UConn. She had a knack for being where the ball was and could quickly get her shot off. I'm hoping -- first and foremost -- that she's able to be healthy and free to do day-to-day activities. If she can get back to hoops, great.
Kate Martin kind of has an apprentice in Sydney Affolter, who comes off the bench to supply some grit, hustle and timely shot-making.
Caroline absolutely had that gift, she is a really high IQ, fundamentally sound player. She could even take over games. If the concussions never happened I’m sure she would currently be looking every bit of the top 5 recruit she was meant to be.
I used to hope she would eventually be able to come back to contribute to the team, but as of this season, I’m just hoping she can return to being healthy to a point where she can live pain and symptom-free day to day and pursue whatever it is that she’s aiming for, basketball or otherwise. Even if she has to medically retire. I’m not sure if that’s too pessimistic for the main UConn board, but I think a lot of people are on the same page feeling that way.
The 2021 class has had absolutely terrible injury luck with Azzi, Miles, Harmon, Raven Johnson, Teonni Key, Aaliyah Moore all in the top 10 tearing their ACLs and then there’s Caroline. Really a shame, although at least Johnson and Moore have been able to make a successful comeback and hoping the rest can continue to heal and come back strong as well.
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Man ....that list of 2021 players who all suffered an ACL is something. Scary part that's it's a small sample size for that class and there's likely more who have suffered that injury.
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It was an uneven win against an undermanned Kent State team, but survive and move forward to Monday against Mississippi.
This game was refereed a lot like Pittsburgh, where one referee in particular called lots of ticky tack fouls and got ND into the kind of foul trouble it can’t afford. Nielle was visibly upset with how he was taking over the game. The next game was refereed completely different and it is awful to think how one referee can dictate the game instead of the players. We can only hope we get refs that let us play, because as we advance losing Maddy or Sonia or HH for long stretches will doom us.
Kent got a lot of points in the paint, where we are really vulnerable. It is our Achilles heel. Maddy uncharacteristicly struggled with her shot, which is probably rust. I expect her to be back in form Monday.
Sonia is so multidimensional, knocking down 3 pointers and getting layups after great assists by HH.
The arena was packed and you could see the smiles on the players faces when they were introduced. I’m disappointed the game is at 2 Monday when lots of people have to work, but the women have an older fan base. So, hopefully it’s a sellout and the students turn out as well as they did against. Kent.
Mississippi has an athletic and deep roster. We have the home court advantage and are a better passing and shooting team. This is going to be a good game. Let’s hope the referee crew lets both teams play. If the game is refereed like Kent, Mississippi with its depth has the advantage.
As an aside: I saw Kylee Watkins walking and you couldn’t tell by her walk if she was even injured. She didn’t have that awkward heavy brace walk that players have.
Olivia Miles came up int the stands and was giving autographs and taking photos with fans. She looks fully recovered and happy.
Likewise, Cassandre Prosper who looks almost as tall as Nat Marshall, was also smiling and walking normally. She is tall and looks physically strong. Seeing what role she’ll play next year will be interesting. Nielle gave her the green light to do anything she wanted as a Frosh, but unless her outside shot dramatically improves, she could help us much mor banging inside getting offensive rebound putbacks and defensive rebounds. Her development is going to be interesting.
This game was refereed a lot like Pittsburgh, where one referee in particular called lots of ticky tack fouls and got ND into the kind of foul trouble it can’t afford. Nielle was visibly upset with how he was taking over the game. The next game was refereed completely different and it is awful to think how one referee can dictate the game instead of the players. We can only hope we get refs that let us play, because as we advance losing Maddy or Sonia or HH for long stretches will doom us.
Kent got a lot of points in the paint, where we are really vulnerable. It is our Achilles heel. Maddy uncharacteristicly struggled with her shot, which is probably rust. I expect her to be back in form Monday.
Sonia is so multidimensional, knocking down 3 pointers and getting layups after great assists by HH.
The arena was packed and you could see the smiles on the players faces when they were introduced. I’m disappointed the game is at 2 Monday when lots of people have to work, but the women have an older fan base. So, hopefully it’s a sellout and the students turn out as well as they did against. Kent.
Mississippi has an athletic and deep roster. We have the home court advantage and are a better passing and shooting team. This is going to be a good game. Let’s hope the referee crew lets both teams play. If the game is refereed like Kent, Mississippi with its depth has the advantage.
As an aside: I saw Kylee Watkins walking and you couldn’t tell by her walk if she was even injured. She didn’t have that awkward heavy brace walk that players have.
Olivia Miles came up int the stands and was giving autographs and taking photos with fans. She looks fully recovered and happy.
Likewise, Cassandre Prosper who looks almost as tall as Nat Marshall, was also smiling and walking normally. She is tall and looks physically strong. Seeing what role she’ll play next year will be interesting. Nielle gave her the green light to do anything she wanted as a Frosh, but unless her outside shot dramatically improves, she could help us much mor banging inside getting offensive rebound putbacks and defensive rebounds. Her development is going to be interesting.
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Ducharme is more of a Gabby Marshall type - quiet scorer. Though she does have the Team Mom role, which I think Martin shoulders also.
Dillon77
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Hmm. The reason I brought up Ducharme with Martin and Citron is her size....she's 6'2" and Citron is 6'1". They do damage at multiple levels. While Ducharme and Marshall may be "quiet" or "under the radar," Marshall is only 5'9" tall and rarely ventures inside. When Ducharme was playing full out, she had the ability to score in multiple areas. Maybe not quite as versatile as Martin or, especially, Citron,...but a force.
Dillon77
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ND Jumps Out to 17-Pt. Halftime Lead Enroute to 71-56 Win Over Ole Miss;
Sweet 16 Match-Up with Oregon State Next at 2:30 p.m. on Friday.
ND's major weapon this time around was:
Many on "The Bench" felt Ole Miss was a bigger, stronger version of Louisville, whom the Irish played three times at the end of the season, so they were ready for the frenetic pace. The big difference is Ole Miss isn't an outside shooting team and that played into the Irish Zone.
Good win for Coach Niele Ivey and charges. Onto Albany!
www.espn.com
Sweet 16 Match-Up with Oregon State Next at 2:30 p.m. on Friday.
ND's major weapon this time around was:
- It's zone, which helped Ole Miss commit 11 turnovers in the first half (game average is 15). Ole Miss is used to taking teams off the dribble and they'd just run into someone in ND's 2-3 zone.
- ND did a reasonable job of getting the best shots for their respective players: Westbeld led the Irish with 20 on 8-13 shooting. Hannah HIdalgo scored 19 and had 4 assists, rebounds and steals.
- Sonia Citron had 17 and went 6-6 from the line. She also led Irish with 10 rebounds and 6 assists.
- Interestingly, Center Nat Marshall had 5 assists, so the inside-back-out game was working.
Many on "The Bench" felt Ole Miss was a bigger, stronger version of Louisville, whom the Irish played three times at the end of the season, so they were ready for the frenetic pace. The big difference is Ole Miss isn't an outside shooting team and that played into the Irish Zone.
Good win for Coach Niele Ivey and charges. Onto Albany!
Notre Dame 71-56 Ole Miss (Mar 25, 2024) Game Recap - ESPN
Expert recap and game analysis of the Notre Dame Fighting Irish vs. Ole Miss Rebels NCAAW game from March 25, 2024 on ESPN.
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I am super proud of the Irish and how they are playing. From not being included in either of the top 16 reveals to earning a 2 seed. ND really turned a corner after the NC State loss. Their offense started added more looks. I think Citron getting healthy and cutting like her usual self really helped. Their defense has looked better as well. It really stinks we got placed in South Carolinas bracket. I think we could compete against any of the other 1 seeds.
Excited to see if we can get one step closer and go to the elite 8. ND and Oregon St are my two favorite teams, so I'm excited for this game. I really wanted Gardiner to ND, and honestly I always imagine ND having Beers as their 5! (Can't wait for next year)
They played so good yesterday.
Excited to see if we can get one step closer and go to the elite 8. ND and Oregon St are my two favorite teams, so I'm excited for this game. I really wanted Gardiner to ND, and honestly I always imagine ND having Beers as their 5! (Can't wait for next year)
They played so good yesterday.
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Dillon77
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Like you, I'm very proud of the Irish -- players and staff -- for continuing to persevere and even get better. A few quick hits:
- The Irish getting on a roll might've placed them in the predicament of drawing S. Carolina. They're probably the "last" two seed, but who knows where they might've gone as a three seed? Besides, at some point you've got to play the best. At this juncture, let's play the next "best" team: Oregon State.
- Kudos to Nat Marshall for stepping into the Kylee Watson center role. While not as physical as Kylee, she's quicker and is learning to use her height to collapse on help-side defense. She was absolutely stellar in ND's aggressive zone against Ole Miss. Marshall's always had the pedigree: now, injury-free after years, she's gaining extensive playing time and you can see the confidence and gears getting stronger, smoother.
- The beauty of having three exceptional players is each of them can take lead in various facets of the game.
Against Kent State, Westbeld couldn't buy a basket and Citron was stellar with 29 points. Yesterday, Westbeld was hot, while Citron led the team in rebounds and assists, while still scoring 17.
- And Hidalgo just keeps pushing and influencing so many facets of the game....
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I agree our zone was stellar against Ole Miss. It was suffocatingly quick against a quick team. With a 6-7 player rotation, I will be surprised if we play anything else.
Maddy played like a 1st team All American the 1st half. Just an amazing performance. Sonia was uncharacteristically a bit sloppy with the ball. I don’t know if it was a loss of focus or Ole Miss’s ball pressure. Hannah is just relentless. She is the engine sparking this team. Nat is playing well and her quickness is her best asset. She’s also protecting the ball well in the passing game offensively. Anna has shot well and hustles in the zone. We’re gonna need KK to hit those 5 foot jump shots, but she brings a physicality defensively that helps underneath despite her relatively short stature.
I expect us to win Friday. Then, beating SC will be a monumental task, the only way being Maddy, Sonia and HH all playing their A game all game long.
The way we’re playing, we’d be an easier Final 4 team in any other region, but SC is a beast this year. Next year we’ll be much better positioned to knock them off their perch. I couldn’t be happier with how this team is playing Nielle has done a great job.
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How do you all think Notre Dame will handle all of that height from Oregon State? Aren't they the tallest team in the tournament? It seems like everyone on Oregon States team is 6' or taller...even the guards. This could be the game where the loss of Watson becomes mightily apparent. Also, Beers is very thick and I can't see anyone on Notre Dame's team being able to displace her or push her away from under the basket once she gets position.
Dillon77
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As long as I can recall Scott Rueck-coached teams, he's always had very tall, solidly-built post players, surrounded by pretty tall guards that shoot the three. This team really is no different save for, imo, Timea Gardiner being able to shoot from outside. If she's hot, that's an issue. However, if she's not, keeps her away from the boards.
A few answers for you:
- Nat Marshall is just as tall/taller than Kylee Watson at 6'5". Whereas Watson is quite strong, Marshall is quick, which came in handy against Ole Miss.
- Yes, Beers is a solid presence, but the Irish have played against a solid post in River Baldwin, who had one good half against the Irish. I think you'll see the Irish go zone against Oregon State and try to disrupt the guards movement and passing.
- While OSU is tall, they're not overly quick: that was the Irish bugaboo this season: keep strong, quick, athletic wings from crashing. While Ole Miss slightly outrebounded the Irish yesterday, ND forced turnovers to make up for it.
Turning it around:
- It's very hard for any team to get used to playing Hannah Hidalgo for the first time. Her speed and relentless intensity is hard to prepare for.
- That zone is clicking individually and collectively, which is what it needs to do.
- ND's offense under both MM and now Ivey always manages to get the Irish players the looks they need, which means Westbeld spot-ups and Citron cuts to the basket. It's uncanny.
- Did I say Hidalgo takes some getting used to?
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Dillon77
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This was the play that pretty much brought the house down at Purcell Pavilion yesterday. Note in this sequence how all five ND players touched the ball and it was a 6'5" center (Nat Marshall) running full speed who make the kick-out pass to Anna DeWolfe for the three.
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ND plays a very active high zone that will run shooters off the 3 point line and disrupt passing lanes. I've never seen a more active zone up top. At the bottom they swap quickly to interfere with passes to big posts. This was effective on Baldwin.As long as I can recall Scott Rueck-coached teams, he's always had very tall, solidly-built post players, surrounded by pretty tall guards that shoot the three. This team really is no different save for, imo, Timea Gardiner being able to shoot from outside. If she's not, that's an issue. However, if she's not, keeps her away from the boards.
A few answers for you:
- Nat Marshall is just as tall/taller than Kylee Watson at 6'5". Whereas Watson is quite strong, Marshall is quick, which came in handy against Ole Miss.
- Yes, Beers is a solid presence, but the Irish have played against a solid post in River Baldwin, who had one good half against the Irish. I think you'll see the Irish go zone against Oregon State and try to disrupt the guards movement and passing.
- While OSU is tall, they're not overly quick: that was the Irish bugaboo this season: keep strong, quick, athletic wings from crashing. While Ole Miss slightly outrebounded the Irish yesterday, ND forced turnovers to make up for it.
Turning it around:
- It's very hard for any team to get used to playing Hannah Hidalgo for the first time. Her speed and relentless intensity is hard to prepare for.
- That zone is clicking individually and collectively, which is what it needs to do.
- ND's offense under both MM and now Ivey always manages to get the Irish players the looks they need, which means Westbeld spot-ups and Citron cuts to the basket. It's uncanny.
- Did I say Hidalgo takes some getting used to?
But I don't expect all zone, they will switch to man, triangle, and zone to keep Oregon State confused and making turnovers. Beers will get some lobs but the backside player will interfere with the catch, and she'll get some offensive rebounds but not many with Westbeld and Marshall there for the short rebounds and Citron and Hidalgo for the longer ones.
On offense Oregon State is very open to pull up jumpers since ND is much faster. If Beers sits on the basket ND can easily shoot over her but Hidalgo will go through her and get and ones. She is too quick and redirects the ball too often. If the refs call the game correctly Beers will foul out.
I expect Marshall to go to the high post to draw Beers out then either lob in to Westbeld or hit cutters who have beaten the bigger guards. Then there will be the 3's from Hidalgo, Citron, Westbeld, and DeWolfe. The OSU guards will have to come out after the 3s and then they will get beat on the dribble. Imo it will be another 15+ point win with ND taking their foot off the gas in the fourth to avoid running it up.
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Dillon77
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I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish:
- the Irish usually do play zone against Rueck
- they simply don't have the depth to play man-to-man and risk getting into foul trouble.
Yes, I know there are risks given OSU's ability to shoot the three, but this Irish team is not sitting back and saving energy to outscore you (like the 2018-19 teams, that usually did).
They're into it.
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You may want to watch some of the PAC-12 games that OSU played against some very high quality backcourts in PAC-12 conference. JuJu Watkings 11 for 33 and 6 for 34 in her 2 games vs OSU. HH is "quicker" than just about any guard in the NCAA, but after that, ND guards are not faster/quicker than OSU guards/wings. I don't know why Beers is going to chase Marshall to the high post? Haven't seen Marshall be a threat at the high post? And Beers and Gardiner have played against some very high quality BIGs and held their own. I will concede that I too am concerned about HH drawing fouls on OSU BIGs. OSU BIGs need to be disciplined when HH drives through the middle, and even more so, OSU guards/wings have the first responsibility to keep HH out of the key. OSU's advantage is their deep bench vs ND's 6-player rotation. OSU has learned to play without Raegan Beers for long stretches (including 4 games w/o Beers). And coach Rueck has the luxury of changing line-ups in-game to OSU's advantage. Should be a very good game, and may the better team win!
Dillon77
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Thanks for the information: It will be a good game and, as you say, all power to both.
A few comments:
- Yes, Nat Marshall is not a big scorer, but her strike zone includes 10-15 jumpers from the elbow and the baseline. If she pops a few of these, she's also adept at the high-low pass. And she can and will run the floor on breaks. As you know, Hidalgo will find open Irish running upcourt.
- Without question, OSU has greater depth, which is why I mentioned the zone as being defense of choice. And sure, Beers and Gardiner are stellar (we Irish fans were hoping to get Gardiner to South Bend): they can play with anyone.
- Maddy Westbeld is kind of a classic all-round forward who can play rough inside, drain the mid- and long-range jumper and drive by you. That will be up to Gardiner to stop.
- I've watched a few OSU games and more than a few PAC 12 games as the season has worn down. Plus, we have a very informed poster on the Bench, Domerduck, an ND alum who lives in Oregon. He keeps us up to speed on all things Orego-ish and Pac-12.
- For me, it's not so much that ND's guards/wings are fast(er) (save Hannah who is faster and more relentless than just about anyone), but it's how they get to use that quickness. The Irish are always looking for ways to free up Citron, who may be the best back-door and weakside cutter I've seen in quite some time at South Bend. You overplay or ball-watch and she's gone.
Anyways, thanks for the input. They're 2 and 3 seeds so this should be close.
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Dillon77
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Well, there may be some introduction needed for those not completely familiar with the above players.
Let's say, that Sonia Citron just joined a pretty illustrious list of Irish hoopsters.
Take a guess who they are. If not, From 1999, moving forward in time:
- Ruth Riley
- Skylar Diggins (now -Smith)
- Kayla McBride (K-Mac)
- Jewell Loyd
- Arike Ogunbowale
- Jackie Young
- Sonia Citron
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Marshall is kind of an unknown now that she's starting. Her 5 assists and 2/4 from the high post against Ole Miss and her performance against Kent State was a pleasant surprise. If no one is going to "chase" her to the high post I'm fine with her jump shot or her passing.
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I'll leave that to the OSU Coaching staff. We'll have a mix of 3 BIGs to rotate through, and it will all be dictated on match ups and if Marshall begins lighting up OSU!
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BRS24
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Notre Dame's Hannah Hidalgo 'humbled' by newfound stardom
Hannah Hidalgo said she is "humbled" by her stardom and that she never anticipated being "the face of something."
WBBTakeover
WHO CAN GUARD TESSA???!!!!
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Please, Hannah! Stay FAR, FAR away from Drake! He is bad luck!Notre Dame's Hannah Hidalgo 'humbled' by newfound stardom
Hannah Hidalgo said she is "humbled" by her stardom and that she never anticipated being "the face of something."
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Behind the scenes, Olivia Miles has played a crucial role in Notre Dame’s Sweet 16 run
The Next link won't work, so here it is with a space:
Type in www.thenext hoops.com in front of this - /ncaaw/olivia-miles-notre-dame-march-madness-citron-hidalgo-basketball/
The Next link won't work, so here it is with a space:
Type in www.thenext hoops.com in front of this - /ncaaw/olivia-miles-notre-dame-march-madness-citron-hidalgo-basketball/
Dillon77
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@LoTrader
Congrats to Oregon State Beavers (players and staff) and their fans (such as yourself) for the Sweet 16 victory over Notre Dame.
The 70-65 victory was one odd game:
Good luck to the Beavs going forward...played under control and kept their composure to shoot well when they did have the ball.
I'll come back in detail on the Irish at some point, but they played hard, smart and with heart, but this time it wasn't enough. 28-7 for the year and already looking forward to '24-'25.
Congrats to Oregon State Beavers (players and staff) and their fans (such as yourself) for the Sweet 16 victory over Notre Dame.
The 70-65 victory was one odd game:
- The Beavers won with an odd mixture of doing the very right thing with the ball (60% shooting from the field) and also having 26 turnovers, which is usually a recipe for disaster.
- They played good defense in spurts to take leads, only to see the Irish fight back. The Irish shot 35% overall and 25% from three, but couldn't hit open two's or three's after they came back to tie it. Meanwhile, the Beavers drained two crucial threes to finally pull away. That 42% from three ultimately pulled it out.
- Special mention for the huge disparity in rebounds (43-24) for Oregon State, which were primarily on the defensive boards. If the Irish missed, the Beavs went the other way.
- Gardiner (21 pts) and Beers (18) were the main culprits to the Irish, but heroes for OSU.. If the Irish ever missed Kylee Watson's relative bulk and strength, this was the day. No answer for those two on the boards (Beers had 13 and Gardiner had 11).
- Hidalgo had, perhaps, her worst shooting day of the year. Oregon prodded her but she was missing open shots as well. The Irish stayed close because of the drives of Sonia Citron (22 pts) and the mid-range games of Maddy Westbeld (19 pts.) and Anna DeWolfe (12 pts, in her last game as both a collegian and Irish.).
Good luck to the Beavs going forward...played under control and kept their composure to shoot well when they did have the ball.
I'll come back in detail on the Irish at some point, but they played hard, smart and with heart, but this time it wasn't enough. 28-7 for the year and already looking forward to '24-'25.
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Proud of ND. That 10 game win streak was remarkable and they played great basketball. ND took a huge step forward with their defense this season. I think their offense also looked great during that stretch. Before that 10 games I couldn't envision the turnaround.
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Looking forward to a healthy ND squad for 2024 - 2025.
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