Notre Dame 2023-24 Season (merged)

[LoTrader]

ND plays a very active high zone that will run shooters off the 3 point line and disrupt passing lanes. I've never seen a more active zone up top. At the bottom they swap quickly to interfere with passes to big posts. This was effective on Baldwin.

But I don't expect all zone, they will switch to man, triangle, and zone to keep Oregon State confused and making turnovers. Beers will get some lobs but the backside player will interfere with the catch, and she'll get some offensive rebounds but not many with Westbeld and Marshall there for the short rebounds and Citron and Hidalgo for the longer ones.

On offense Oregon State is very open to pull up jumpers since ND is much faster. If Beers sits on the basket ND can easily shoot over her but Hidalgo will go through her and get and ones. She is too quick and redirects the ball too often. If the refs call the game correctly Beers will foul out.

I expect Marshall to go to the high post to draw Beers out then either lob in to Westbeld or hit cutters who have beaten the bigger guards. Then there will be the 3's from Hidalgo, Citron, Westbeld, and DeWolfe. The OSU guards will have to come out after the 3s and then they will get beat on the dribble. Imo it will be another 15+ point win with ND taking their foot off the gas in the fourth to avoid running it up.

You may want to watch some of the PAC-12 games that OSU played against some very high quality backcourts in PAC-12 conference. JuJu Watkings 11 for 33 and 6 for 34 in her 2 games vs OSU. HH is "quicker" than just about any guard in the NCAA, but after that, ND guards are not faster/quicker than OSU guards/wings. I don't know why Beers is going to chase Marshall to the high post? Haven't seen Marshall be a threat at the high post? And Beers and Gardiner have played against some very high quality BIGs and held their own. I will concede that I too am concerned about HH drawing fouls on OSU BIGs. OSU BIGs need to be disciplined when HH drives through the middle, and even more so, OSU guards/wings have the first responsibility to keep HH out of the key. OSU's advantage is their deep bench vs ND's 6-player rotation. OSU has learned to play without Raegan Beers for long stretches (including 4 games w/o Beers). And coach Rueck has the luxury of changing line-ups in-game to OSU's advantage. Should be a very good game, and may the better team win!

 

[Dillon77]

You may want to watch some of the PAC-12 games that OSU played against some very high quality backcourts in PAC-12 conference. JuJu Watkings 11 for 33 and 6 for 34 in her 2 games vs OSU. HH is "quicker" than just about any guard in the NCAA, but after that, ND guards are not faster/quicker than OSU guards/wings. I don't know why Beers is going to chase Marshall to the high post? Haven't seen Marshall be a threat at the high post? And Beers and Gardiner have played against some very high quality BIGs and held their own. I will concede that I too am concerned about HH drawing fouls on OSU BIGs. OSU BIGs need to be disciplined when HH drives through the middle, and even more so, OSU guards/wings have the first responsibility to keep HH out of the key. OSU's advantage is their deep bench vs ND's 6-player rotation. OSU has learned to play without Raegan Beers for long stretches (including 4 games w/o Beers). And coach Rueck has the luxury of changing line-ups in-It wgame to OSU's advantage. Should be a very good game, and may the better team win!

Thanks for the information: It will be a good game and, as you say, all power to both.
A few comments:

- Yes, Nat Marshall is not a big scorer, but her strike zone includes 10-15 jumpers from the elbow and the baseline. If she pops a few of these, she's also adept at the high-low pass. And she can and will run the floor on breaks. As you know, Hidalgo will find open Irish running upcourt.

- Without question, OSU has greater depth, which is why I mentioned the zone as being defense of choice. And sure, Beers and Gardiner are stellar (we Irish fans were hoping to get Gardiner to South Bend): they can play with anyone.

- Maddy Westbeld is kind of a classic all-round forward who can play rough inside, drain the mid- and long-range jumper and drive by you. That will be up to Gardiner to stop.

- I've watched a few OSU games and more than a few PAC 12 games as the season has worn down. Plus, we have a very informed poster on the Bench, Domerduck, an ND alum who lives in Oregon. He keeps us up to speed on all things Orego-ish and Pac-12.

- For me, it's not so much that ND's guards/wings are fast(er) (save Hannah who is faster and more relentless than just about anyone), but it's how they get to use that quickness. The Irish are always looking for ways to free up Citron, who may be the best back-door and weakside cutter I've seen in quite some time at South Bend. You overplay or ball-watch and she's gone.

Anyways, thanks for the input. They're 2 and 3 seeds so this should be close.

-

 

[Dillon77]

Well, there may be some introduction needed for those not completely familiar with the above players.
Let's say, that Sonia Citron just joined a pretty illustrious list of Irish hoopsters.

Take a guess who they are. If not, From 1999, moving forward in time:

• Ruth Riley
• Skylar Diggins (now -Smith)
• Kayla McBride (K-Mac)
• Jewell Loyd
• Arike Ogunbowale
• Jackie Young
• Sonia Citron

 

[DallasDomer]

You may want to watch some of the PAC-12 games that OSU played against some very high quality backcourts in PAC-12 conference. JuJu Watkings 11 for 33 and 6 for 34 in her 2 games vs OSU. HH is "quicker" than just about any guard in the NCAA, but after that, ND guards are not faster/quicker than OSU guards/wings. I don't know why Beers is going to chase Marshall to the high post? Haven't seen Marshall be a threat at the high post? And Beers and Gardiner have played against some very high quality BIGs and held their own. I will concede that I too am concerned about HH drawing fouls on OSU BIGs. OSU BIGs need to be disciplined when HH drives through the middle, and even more so, OSU guards/wings have the first responsibility to keep HH out of the key. OSU's advantage is their deep bench vs ND's 6-player rotation. OSU has learned to play without Raegan Beers for long stretches (including 4 games w/o Beers). And coach Rueck has the luxury of changing line-ups in-game to OSU's advantage. Should be a very good game, and may the better team win!

Marshall is kind of an unknown now that she's starting. Her 5 assists and 2/4 from the high post against Ole Miss and her performance against Kent State was a pleasant surprise. If no one is going to "chase" her to the high post I'm fine with her jump shot or her passing.

 

[LoTrader]

Marshall is kind of an unknown now that she's starting. Her 5 assists and 2/4 from the high post against Ole Miss and her performance against Kent State was a pleasant surprise. If no one is going to "chase" her to the high post I'm fine with her jump shot or her passing.

I'll leave that to the OSU Coaching staff. We'll have a mix of 3 BIGs to rotate through, and it will all be dictated on match ups and if Marshall begins lighting up OSU!

 

[BRS24]

ND star Hidalgo 'humbled' by newfound fame

Hannah Hidalgo said she is "humbled" by her stardom and that she never anticipated being "the face of something."

www.espn.com

 

[WBBTakeover]

ND star Hidalgo 'humbled' by newfound fame

Hannah Hidalgo said she is "humbled" by her stardom and that she never anticipated being "the face of something."

www.espn.com

Please, Hannah! Stay FAR, FAR away from Drake! He is bad luck!

 

[BRS24]

Behind the scenes, Olivia Miles has played a crucial role in Notre Dame’s Sweet 16 run

The Next link won't work, so here it is with a space:
Type in www.thenext hoops.com in front of this - /ncaaw/olivia-miles-notre-dame-march-madness-citron-hidalgo-basketball/

 

[Dillon77]

@LoTrader

Congrats to Oregon State Beavers (players and staff) and their fans (such as yourself) for the Sweet 16 victory over Notre Dame.

The 70-65 victory was one odd game:

• The Beavers won with an odd mixture of doing the very right thing with the ball (60% shooting from the field) and also having 26 turnovers, which is usually a recipe for disaster.
• They played good defense in spurts to take leads, only to see the Irish fight back. The Irish shot 35% overall and 25% from three, but couldn't hit open two's or three's after they came back to tie it. Meanwhile, the Beavers drained two crucial threes to finally pull away. That 42% from three ultimately pulled it out.
• Special mention for the huge disparity in rebounds (43-24) for Oregon State, which were primarily on the defensive boards. If the Irish missed, the Beavs went the other way.
• Gardiner (21 pts) and Beers (18) were the main culprits to the Irish, but heroes for OSU.. If the Irish ever missed Kylee Watson's relative bulk and strength, this was the day. No answer for those two on the boards (Beers had 13 and Gardiner had 11).
• Hidalgo had, perhaps, her worst shooting day of the year. Oregon prodded her but she was missing open shots as well. The Irish stayed close because of the drives of Sonia Citron (22 pts) and the mid-range games of Maddy Westbeld (19 pts.) and Anna DeWolfe (12 pts, in her last game as both a collegian and Irish.).

Good luck to the Beavs going forward...played under control and kept their composure to shoot well when they did have the ball.

I'll come back in detail on the Irish at some point, but they played hard, smart and with heart, but this time it wasn't enough. 28-7 for the year and already looking forward to '24-'25.

 

[Reypl21]

Proud of ND. That 10 game win streak was remarkable and they played great basketball. ND took a huge step forward with their defense this season. I think their offense also looked great during that stretch. Before that 10 games I couldn't envision the turnaround.

 

[cancontent]

Proud of ND. That 10 game win streak was remarkable and they played great basketball. ND took a huge step forward with their defense this season. I think their offense also looked great during that stretch. Before that 10 games I couldn't envision the turnaround.

Looking forward to a healthy ND squad for 2024 - 2025.

 

[Dillon77]

Looking forward to a healthy ND squad for 2024 - 2025.

Amen.

 

[LoTrader]

It was the game I was expecting. Game wasn't decided until the last few seconds. Congrats to ND for a great season. FYI, I wish Citron was a Beaver--she is such a gamer. Love watching her play.

 

[Dillon77]

It was the game I was expecting. Game wasn't decided until the last few seconds. Congrats to ND for a great season. FYI, I wish Citron was a Beaver--she is such a gamer. Love watching her play.

Agreed. Led Irish in scoring and rebounding (as a guard) and just about everything.
I thought the push to come back in the late 3rd and 4th (and OSU's taut defense on her) took a bit of a toll in the later part of the fourth: she was coming up short on a few jumpers. Still, she and Westbeld got ND back in that position.

For OSU, Donovyn Hunter and Timea Gardiner are keepers.

Good luck against South Carolina.....

 

[Frankus]

Not much to say about the game. It will be a footnote in our history as the nose ring game.

Going forward, the only way we become truly elite is to have a big that can hold her own with any big. Marshall can’t and Watson is a health question mark. So NI has a big decision ahead of her. Does she stand pat with an unproven but highly regarded Freshman, or hit the portal. If she does she can’t afford another poor talent assessment like she made with Obinma. She needs to bring in a big that is a proven player from a major conference, not some second tier conference. This will be a big challenge, but it can be done. If she doesn’t bring in a big, it is a risk that we will be vulnerable inside again.

I’m really hoping Westbeld comes back. If she doesn’t, NI will have to find a reliable scorer/rebounder. Prosper can’t fill Westbeld’s shoes yet.

It will be fun to watch HH and OM together, but they aren’t rebounders. I hope NI can turn Prosper into an inside 10/10 points/rebounds player who can bang with any team. She’s tall, strong and athletic. We don’t need her 30 feet from the basket. We have three elite players in OM, HH and Sonia who can shoot from outside and beat people off the dribble and/or cut past them. We need rebounders and inside power.

Though Marshall is a wonderful representative of ND, she should be a 10 a game minute player, not a key big to be depended on. She’s simply too weak, is not a dependable scorer and plays small
for a 6’5” player. Whether she wants that is a big question, and Ivey may have to let her go.

Whatever happens we can’t be in a situation where we’re vulnerable to foul trouble because of a lack of depth. NI only signed one Freshman. So she has to hit the portal and accurately assess the talent. Let’s hope she does.

Our goal is to win a National Championship next year. With a few key pieces it’s possible. This is a pivotal year for NI. Let’s hope she can make the next step and bring another trophy back to SB.

 

[Dillon77]

Not much to say about the game. It will be a footnote in our history as the nose ring game.

Going forward, the only way we become truly elite is to have a big that can hold her own with any big. Marshall can’t and Watson is a health question mark. So NI has a big decision ahead of her. Does she stand pat with an unproven but highly regarded Freshman, or hit the portal. If she does she can’t afford another poor talent assessment like she made with Obinma. She needs to bring in a big that is a proven player from a major conference, not some second tier conference. This will be a big challenge, but it can be done. If she doesn’t bring in a big, it is a risk that we will be vulnerable inside again.

I’m really hoping Westbeld comes back. If she doesn’t, NI will have to find a reliable scorer/rebounder. Prosper can’t fill Westbeld’s shoes yet.

It will be fun to watch HH and OM together, but they aren’t rebounders. I hope NI can turn Prosper into an inside 10/10 points/rebounds player who can bang with any team. She’s tall, strong and athletic. We don’t need her 30 feet from the basket. We have three elite players in OM, HH and Sonia who can shoot from outside and beat people off the dribble and/or cut past them. We need rebounders and inside power.

Though Marshall is a wonderful representative of ND, she should be a 10 a game minute player, not a key big to be depended on. She’s simply too weak, is not a dependable scorer and plays small
for a 6’5” player. Whether she wants that is a big question, and Ivey may have to let her go.

Whatever happens we can’t be in a situation where we’re vulnerable to foul trouble because of a lack of depth. NI only signed one Freshman. So she has to hit the portal and accurately assess the talent. Let’s hope she does.

Our goal is to win a National Championship next year. With a few key pieces it’s possible. This is a pivotal year for NI. Let’s hope she can make the next step and bring another trophy back to SB.

Good, honest post.

As per the center position. Niele is banking a lot on Kate Koval. You can read it on the lines. However, with Kylee Watson's rehab long and uncertain in time frame, I agree that she has to go after a top-flight post who will share time with Koval. I've got a few in mind, but let's see who else might pop up as all these tournaments winnow down.

The most essential personnel move actually belongs to Maddy Westbeld. If she chooses to come back, ND is in very good shape, to say the least. If not, add forward to the transfer portal scouting list.

And, I really want to see how Emma Risch is recovering from her hip surgery. If progressing well, that's the other long-distance threat. If there's a question, perhaps see if another player like Anna DeWolfe is in the portal: a grad transfer who is fine with lowering minutes and expectations in the hope of winning. As off as Obinma was, DeWolfe was a strike. All power to her and good luck in whatever she chooses next.

I'll pick this up in a few. Now, time to get ready for Easter.

 

[Heytherego]

For ND fans, how do you see OM and HH playing out next year position wise? Will one slide over to shooting guard or will they split duties?

 

[Dillon77]

For ND fans, how do you see OM and HH playing out next year position wise? Will one slide over to shooting guard or will they split duties?

In terms of who will be the primary floor general, I think that will be Miles. She is more of a pass first, orchestrate point guard. Plus, and this is a subtle but strong point, she's 5'10" or 4" taller than Hannah and can see "over" defenses a bit better. Her ability to deliver pinpoint skip passes and dimes to cutting wings (that would Sonia Citron most of the time) is tremendous.

However, I think you'll see them flip it from time to time, particularly in situations/games when it behooves Hannah to go downhill, whether in an ISO or off high picks.

Lastly..and ND does this already..you'll see both of them take a break on the sides while Citron or KK Bransford brings the ball up to start the half-court offense. But that doesn't mean they'll the prime facilitator, because the Irish offense gets into a weave pretty quickly.

So: 1) Miles; 1a) Hidalgo; 2) Citron or Bransford bringing it up to initiate the offensive sets.

 

[WLT1717]

Future looking extremely bright for the Irish ☘️

 

[Dillon77]

Future looking extremely bright for the Irish ☘️

Can't begin to tell you how excited The Bench is to see Hannah Hidalgo and Sonia Citron joined by Olivia Miles.
Hopefully, Maddy Westbeld will come back, too, to join incoming frosh Kate Koval.

 

[Frankus]

In terms of who will be the primary floor general, I think that will be Miles. She is more of a pass first, orchestrate point guard. Plus, and this is a subtle but strong point, she's 5'10" or 4" taller than Hannah and can see "over" defenses a bit better. Her ability to deliver pinpoint skip passes and dimes to cutting wings (that would Sonia Citron most of the time) is tremendous.

However, I think you'll see them flip it from time to time, particularly in situations/games when it behooves Hannah to go downhill, whether in an ISO or off high picks.

Lastly..and ND does this already..you'll see both of them take a break on the sides while Citron or KK Bransford brings the ball up to start the half-court offense. But that doesn't mean they'll the prime facilitator, because the Irish offense gets into a weave pretty quickly.

So: 1) Miles; 1a) Hidalgo; 2) Citron or Bransford bringing it up to initiate the offensive sets.

I agree with this. Though not a shooter like Caitlin Clark, Miles resembles her in the way that she sees the entire court and is particularly good at threading the needle with longer passes. She is a better distributor than HH and Hannah-as well as everyone else- is going to get a lot of fast break layups off OM passes as well as open jumpers.

 

[Dillon77]

It was the game I was expecting. Game wasn't decided until the last few seconds. Congrats to ND for a great season. FYI, I wish Citron was a Beaver--she is such a gamer. Love watching her play.

Hey LoTrader:
Now that we've bonded in the Sweet 16, similar question to you: Is everyone coming back for the Beavers?
Any newbies expected or people coming off injured reserve? I know this is an ND thread, but we've been trading back and forths....

 

[WLT1717]

Just a placeholder - Koval looked very solid in the McDonald’s game tonight. She’s going to make impact from day 1.

 

[Dillon77]

Just a placeholder - Koval looked very solid in the McDonald’s game tonight. She’s going to make impact from day 1.

Per that point, it was this play that caught my -- and a lot of people's -- attention.
ND hasn't seen a seal (and deliver) like that since Jess Shepard posted in the paint.

 

[Dillon77]