Notre Dame 2021-2022

[shiverz45]

Yes, some chatter about that on the Bench, as well. And a lot of those shots never really had any chance of going in.

Personally, I would've liked to have seen Dodson and Westbeld flip flop the high=low game and have Maddy post up with her back to the basket. She has a certifiable jump hook to both the left and right. Plus, she might've gotten fouled.

Westbrook and Williams did a good job of helping to clog passing lanes and make life difficult for Miles to drive right, her preferred mode of attack. Personally, I would've liked to have seen her unleash Citron to continually drive and draw fouls: she hits them at a 90% clip.

Would also like to see Nat Marshall get more playing time. Her offensive game is already better than Dodson. Where Maya helps is on defensive presence.

Dodson missed way too many bunnies inside. Citron and Miles do not play like Freshmen. Citron should be in your starting lineup.

 

[Charliebball]

Since Notre Dame women's basketball is no longer embarrassing (for now at least!), I've decided to end two seasons of mostly avoiding the Boneyard during WCBB season!

I'd like to write a little bit about each game, so I thought I'd start a dedicated thread. Feel free to use this thread to discuss all things Irish including long-held and newly formed grievances. Please no in-game discussion that will get the thread locked, however. Use the chat instead.

To kick this off, I thought I'd start with posts recapping last season (yuck), analyzing the roster, and summarizing the three games that have happened so far.

Where we've been:
Notre Dame went 10-10 in 2020-2021 and failed to qualify for the NCAA tournament. The season began inauspiciously with an 86-85 loss at Ohio and more or less continued horribly from there. Against Ohio, an Irish team rendered shorthand by COVID-19 led 77-70 with 6 minutes to play but faltered down the stretch. Faltering down the stretch would come to define the 2020-2021 ND campaign.

Unlike the 2018 National Championship team that was fond of playing a horrible 2nd quarter and then storming back in the second half to win, last year's Irish regularly built double-digit leads only to squander them in the fourth quarter. ND's own media guide tells the tale of woe:

"At Boston College, Notre Dame was up 60-48 with 3:29 remaining, but lost 64-61. At North Carolina, Notre Dame was up 70-63 with 4:36 left, but dropped a 78-73 decision. The Tar Heels outscored the Irish 24-15 in the fourth. At Syracuse, the Irish once held a 15-point lead and were up 65-58 heading into the fourth. Then the Orange outscored the Irish 23-4 in the fourth to take it 81-69"

The season was not entirely without highlights, most notably a stretch from December 31 to January 21 where Notre Dame won 5 out of 6 games in conference play. However, the Irish were quickly met with a reality check in the form of successive road losses to North Carolina, Syracuse, and Louisville.

ND entered the ACC tournament on the NCAA tournament bubble at 10-9 and likely needing multiple ACC tournament wins to snag one of the final NCAA bids. The Irish opened the ACC tournament against Clemson where once again their propensity for a poor fourth quarter doomed them. Notre Dame entered the final frame with a four-point lead but were outscored 18-9 in the quarter and fell to a season ending 68-63 defeat.

2020-2021 stats leaders:
Points: Westbeld - 304 (15.2 per game), Mabrey - 225 (11.3), Walker - 217 (11.4)
Rebounds: Westbeld - 157 (7.9), Peoples - 119 (6.0), Vaughn - 87 (5.4)
Assists: Mabrey - 63, Westbeld - 49, Walker - 42
Steals: Peoples - 29, Walker - 29, Westbeld - 27
Blocks: Vaughn - 23, Westbeld - 18, Brunelle - 8
3-pointers: Mabrey - 40 (38.5%), Brunelle - 23 (38.3%), Walker - 20 (38.5%)

Team Stats of notes:
ND shots 45.6 compared to 41.1% for opponents and 35.2% from deep compared to 32.8%. However, the Irish were outrebounded (36.3 per game, 37.0 for opponents) and committed more turnovers than opponents (341 to 314).

As a devoted WBB fan I'll be interested in reading your reports......,.......I'll be waiting for the invite from the Bench to do the same thing about UConn over there..........

 

[Dillon77]

Dodson missed way too many bunnies inside. Citron and Miles do not play like Freshmen. Citron should be in your starting lineup.

It's interesting. Sonia Citron plays starter minutes, particularly since ND has started playing mostly P5 teams.
Coach Ivey initially said she wanted to bring Citron off the bench to provide a spark.

However, it's my belief that more than anything else, Citron sets the tone with her team-centric style of play. She cuts, passes, sets screens, goes after the ball and shoots when she's needed and/or open.
In short, ND plays at it's most optimal she's in.

Why not do it from the start?

 

[Charliebball]

It's interesting. Sonia Citron plays starter minutes, particularly since ND has started playing mostly P5 teams.
Coach Ivey initially said she wanted to bring Citron off the bench to provide a spark.

However, it's my belief that more than anything else, Citron sets the tone with her team-centric style of play. She cuts, passes, sets screens, goes after the ball and shoots when she's needed and/or open.
In short, ND plays at it's most optimal she's in.

Why not do it from the start?

there's something to be said for having an instant spark plug off the bench if the team starts out playing poorly.........

 

[Dillon77]

there's something to be said for having an instant spark plug off the bench if the team starts out playing poorly.........

Yeah, but not when that person is one of your best players, less than 10 games into her career.
Cori Close didn't start Citron in the beginning of the U19 tourney and realized the "spark" needed to be constant.....

We'll see if Niele is as stubborn as Muffet was at keeping her initial choice of lineups or if she moves it around. The other reason I bring this up is ND is getting virtually nothing from Anaya Peoples offensively.....

 

[Charliebball]

Yeah, but not when that person is one of your best players, less than 10 games into her career.
Cori Close didn't start Citron in the beginning of the U19 tourney and realized the "spark" needed to be constant.....

We'll see if Niele is as stubborn as Muffet was at keeping her initial choice of lineups or if she moves it around. The other reason I bring this up is ND is getting virtually nothing from Anaya Peoples offensively.....

If you're getting nothing from the starter than start her for sure........I saw Peoples have a few good games last year.....is she going backwards?

 

[Dillon77]

If you're getting nothing from the starter than start her for sure........I saw Peoples have a few good games last year.....is she going backwards?

Gosh, hard to say that about a likeable, hard-working young person, but she's not moving forward on all fronts, that's for sure. Foul shooting has improved and she hustles for everything (on the floor or off the glass), but creating her own shot and passing have faltered.

At one point, you could say she was in for her contributions on defense and the unsettled situations, but Citron is rapidly becoming a top flight collegiate defender, as well, utilizing her 6'1" height. Good foot speed, too, which probably comes from being a very good soccer player (as was Miles, btw).

 

[dtbtbtb]

Gosh, hard to say that about a likeable, hard-working young person, but she's not moving forward, that's for sure. Foul shooting has improved and she hustles for everything, but creating her own shot and passing have faltered.

What happened with Gilbert? She was an important rotation player and now barely plays?

 

[eebmg]

It's interesting. Sonia Citron plays starter minutes, particularly since ND has started playing mostly P5 teams.
Coach Ivey initially said she wanted to bring Citron off the bench to provide a spark.

However, it's my belief that more than anything else, Citron sets the tone with her team-centric style of play. She cuts, passes, sets screens, goes after the ball and shoots when she's needed and/or open.
In short, ND plays at it's most optimal she's in.

Why not do it from the start?

Ivey said Citron does not care whether she starts or comes off the bench. I still think she is too young to play college basketball. She looks to be 12 years old. Only Lane from SH looks younger. Check her papers.

 

[Dillon77]

What happened with Gilbert? She was an important rotation player and now barely plays?

Oh boy, I'd need to go check notes for the amount of setbacks she's had, from serious injuries and nagging ones to illnesses. She's had to come back so often, I think she's pressed to make an impression (remember me?!), to the detriment of her game.

At one point, Coach Ivey had talked about her being a person that could spell Miles at point guard, which I could see: decent handle, good height to see over zones and a pretty good mid-range jumper when she's confident. However, that just doesn't seem to have worked out (she was sick again for the post-Turkey Day tournament) and Dara Mabrey fills that role (which is why Mabrey plays the most minutes on the team).

Once again, apparently a very good young person whose career has not gone forward as expected after a promising start. Still, ND has such a tight roster that she's one illness or injury away from getting a chance at being in the rotation again. Never know.

 

[jbc021592]

ND beat Purdue-Fort Wayne 71-48. Before the game, Muffet McGraw was inducted into the ND Ring of Honor. It was a good ceremony. As of the game, slow start for ND, but as the 2nd quarter for going, ND started to pull away. The 2nd half was much better than the first. 6 players in double figures for ND. 9-2-one win away from tying them for wins last season. I’m impressed with ND this season, going better than I thought it would (except with the loss to Georgia in OT-which they should have won by the way).

 

[Orangutan]

I have lapsed on the game summaries big time but hope to catch up over the holidays. In the meantime, quick thoughts:

Olivia Miles was electric vs. Pitt. The whole game was the "The Liv Show" 21 pts, 11 ast, 6 reb, 6 stl and she could have had something like 14-15 assists with better finishing around the hoop. When she is feeling it, it's a sight to see.

Very funny post-game press conference with her. Most players give robotic answers. Miles is quite frank and it's clear she has high self-esteem. The funniest part was her gushing about her connection with Citron and then stating "that's why I recruited her to come play with me wherever I went to college". To which, Niele just patted her on the back and said "thanks"

Citron continues to be rock solid and also makes about 2-3 "wow" plays a game. Against Pitt, one was a pinpoint skip pass to Brunelle for a 3. Another was Sonia reading the play on defense, stealing the pass, ripping it away from attempt a tie-up, then dribbling the length of the court and finishing with a eurostep into a lefty layup.

Citron took home her 4th ACC Freshman of the Week award this week. It was confirmed on the Pitt broadcast that Miles has been deemed ineligible because she played last year as an early enrollee. Otherwise, Miles surely would have won this one.

Brunelle validated my suspicion that she would play better if only she was left on the court for long enough to get a rhythm. Dodson is struggling offensively. When ND isn't playing a team with big brutes in the post, Brunelle needs to play more than Dodson.

 

[Orangutan]

Ivey said Citron does not care whether she starts or comes off the bench. I still think she is too young to play college basketball. She looks to be 12 years old. Only Lane from SH looks younger. Check her papers.

She really should be still a senior in high school like her older USAB teammate Lauren Betts. And she definitely looks like a high-schooler.

I think she's missed a lot of layups on drives that she normally made in high school because she's not used to the strength of college players. Once she gets a college body to go with that advanced basketball IQ...watch out.

Anyhow, for being 18 and 2 months she's doing pretty darn well playing in college basketball landscape that has more overage players than ever due to last year's pandemic freebie season. Shoot, Ali Patberg is still out there at 25...

 

[Dillon77]

She really should be still a senior in high school like her older USAB teammate Lauren Betts. And she definitely looks like a high-schooler.

I think she's missed a lot of layups on drives that she normally made in high school because she's not used to the strength of college players. Once she gets a college body to go with that advanced basketball IQ...watch out.

Anyhow, for being 18 and 2 months she's doing pretty darn well playing in college basketball landscape that has more overage players than ever due to last year's pandemic freebie season. Shoot, Ali Patberg is still out there at 25...

Ali's only 25?
(Amazing to think she was in the same ND recruiting class as Arike Ogunbowale and Marina Mabrey -- quite the class there, Niele and MM -- and "Marike" just finished up their 3rd season in the WNBA.)

 

[triaddukefan]

 

[rvwsleep]

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ND would have won this game last year !

 

[Dillon77]

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You deserve it. Take that stroll to one your fave restaurants and enjoy. Have an extra desert on us. Devils Cake with mint chocolate ice cream?

In the meantime, I'll try to find a polite way of telling Niele Ivey that making your offense go to/through Maya Dodson may result in lot of shot attempts and points, but also a bunch of turnovers and relegates your best player (that would be Maddy Westbeld) to a spectator.

 

[eebmg]

You deserve it. Take that stroll to one your fave restaurants and enjoy. Have an extra desert on us. Devils Cake with mint chocolate ice cream?

In the meantime, I'll try to find a polite way of telling Niele Ivey that making your offense go to/through Maya Dodson may result in lot of shot attempts and points, but also a bunch of turnovers and relegates your best player (that would be Maddy Westbeld) to a spectator.

I am sure you have seen alot more of her but Westbeld does not look like she did last year. Not in the UConn game and not this game. I believe she had the last possession shot in today's game and short armed it.

 

[LoTrader]

Congrats @triaddukefan

 

[triaddukefan]

You deserve it. Take that stroll to one your fave restaurants and enjoy. Have an extra desert on us. Devils Cake with mint chocolate ice cream?

Was gonna have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for dinner... but man... some devils food cake and mint chocolate ice cream does sound tasty.

I'll leave the celebrating to Coach Cunningham...... I know she must feel extra special after this win. Have no idea if there were any hard feelings on her part for being let go... but we are certainly glad to have her on our side.

 

[cancontent]

It was a good game to watch today. The rematch will be interesting. Looking forward to seeing how each team adjusts.

 

[ochoopsfan]

Funny tweet I saw today. By the way Marina Mabrey thought it was funny too!

 

[triaddukefan]

It was a good game to watch today. The rematch will be interesting. Looking forward to seeing how each team adjusts.

If there is to be a rematch, it would have to be in either the ACC tournament or the NCAA tournament. ND and Duke are in separate pods, so only one regular season matchup. Happy belated Boxing Day to you.

 

[Dillon77]

I am sure you have seen alot more of her but Westbeld does not look like she did last year. Not in the UConn game and not this game. I believe she had the last possession shot in today's game and short armed it.

Last year's squad revolved around Maddy Westbeld and Dara Mabrey. It almost had to because of injuries (most notably to Sam Brunelle). This year's team is increasingly about Olivia Miles controlling the ball.

In the UConn game, I felt Geno set up a game plan to limit Westbeld's touches and, in effect, see if the rest of the Irish could beat them. Obviously, they couldn't. Yesterday was an extension of the DePaul game: whoever drew up the game plan thought ND had an advantage down low with Dodson against Dukes bigs. So they pounded it down there, time and time again. My thought was that it worked to a degree, but Dodson isnt' a good distributor (at least, not yet) and led to a lot of double downs.

Westbeld, by contrast, knows when to make her move, take her shot and -- importantly -- keep it moving.
She's fine physically, but I worry a bit about her becoming a secondary option.

As for the shot, I though she caught rim. Dodson short-armed the last shot. Citron did a great job of getting an o-rebound on one Irish miss. Would like her to be selfish and put that back up herself.

Would like to see if Irish mix up their approach if and when these two play again.

 

[Dillon77]

Was gonna have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for dinner... but man... some devils food cake and mint chocolate ice cream does sound tasty.

I'll leave the celebrating to Coach Cunningham...... I know she must feel extra special after this win. Have no idea if there were any hard feelings on her part for being let go... but we are certainly glad to have her on our side.

Any new coach is entitled to choose her own staff, which Coach Ivey (obviously) did. There's a lot of chatter about the way in which it transpired and, quite candidly, most of it wasn't good. Hopefully, Coach Ivey has learned and Coach Cunningham has moved on. Reports indicate she and her family are very happy in the Durham area. Good for her...class act. I wish her the best and think that whenever she's open to being a HC again, she'd be a legit and bona fide candidate.

 

[cancontent]

If there is to be a rematch, it would have to be in either the ACC tournament or the NCAA tournament. ND and Duke are in separate pods, so only one regular season matchup. Happy belated Boxing Day to you.

Darn. I still have to get a handle on how conferences schedule games. I assumed a home and home scenario was in play.

And thanks for the belated Boxing Day. I avoided the crazy sales and my bank account appreciates it.

 

[triaddukefan]

Darn. I still have to get a handle on how conferences schedule games. I assumed a home and home scenario was in play.

And thanks for the belated Boxing Day. I avoided the crazy sales and my bank account appreciates it.

Well in the ACC... since there are 15 teams... they went to a pod system... maybe last year they started it. One pod is Louisville, BC, Syracuse, ND, and Pitt. Duke, State, UVA, VPI, and that other school make up another pod. The final pod is Wake, Clemson, Ga Tech, FSU, and Miami. 18 conference games... Of course you play your fellow pod mates in a home and home. I feel bad for Wake.. its actually unfair.. their fellow Tobacco road friends get each other home and home... while they get home and homes with FSU, Ga Tech, Clemson, and Miami. Definitely not games that are appealing to the Wake fans... all 7 of them.

I was looking into maybe ordering something online... and voila... they are running a Extended Boxing Day Sale.... 45% percent off. Long Live Canada.

 

[cancontent]

Well in the ACC... since there are 15 teams... they went to a pod system... maybe last year they started it. One pod is Louisville, BC, Syracuse, ND, and Pitt. Duke, State, UVA, VPI, and that other school make up another pod. The final pod is Wake, Clemson, Ga Tech, FSU, and Miami. 18 conference games... Of course you play your fellow pod mates in a home and home. I feel bad for Wake.. its actually unfair.. their fellow Tobacco road friends get each other home and home... while they get home and homes with FSU, Ga Tech, Clemson, and Miami. Definitely not games that are appealing to the Wake fans... all 7 of them.

I was looking into maybe ordering something online... and voila... they are running a Extended Boxing Day Sale.... 45% percent off. Long Live Canada.

Well done my friend. The sale discounts, plus the dollar exchange should save you a fair bit of change.

 

[triaddukefan]

Well done my friend. The sale discounts, plus the dollar exchange should save you a fair bit of change.

Actually it is an American company...... they probably didn't want to make the Canadians feel left out...

 

[cancontent]

Actually it is an American company...... they probably didn't want to make the Canadians feel left out...

It's only fair. Canada has picked up the Black Friday tradition after US Thanksgiving.