Not good. | Page 8 | The Boneyard

Not good.

Ollie's offense is painful to watch when he doesn't have a dynamic PG to bail out the other 4 guys. There's simply not enough motion in the offense, it's largely an NBA one on one offense. Without a true PG, and athletic swing man, this team never had a chance.

The expectations for this team changed in November. Everyone outside the program said it would be incredibly difficult to make the tournament without Larrier and Gilbert. Ollie has been very underwhelming after inheriting his national championship team. He was critical to keeping it together. But he's got to show the ability to recruit well on the court, not on paper.

The next two years are critical, if we are healthy, and not in the NCAA tourney, then people have every right to question whether or not we should move on. Ollie had to overcome the recruiting sanctions, going from the Big East to the AAC, and now injuries. Those aren't excuses, those are facts.

The next couple years (barring injuries) will show us whether or not he can get it done, but he has been behind the 8 ball from the very beginning.
 
Ollie's offense is painful to watch when he doesn't have a dynamic PG to bail out the other 4 guys. There's simply not enough motion in the offense, it's largely an NBA one on one offense. Without a true PG, and athletic swing man, this team never had a chance.

The expectations for this team changed in November. Everyone outside the program said it would be incredibly difficult to make the tournament without Larrier and Gilbert. Ollie has been very underwhelming after inheriting his national championship team. He was critical to keeping it together. But he's got to show the ability to recruit well on the court, not on paper.

The next two years are critical, if we are healthy, and not in the NCAA tourney, then people have every right to question whether or not we should move on. Ollie had to overcome the recruiting sanctions, going from the Big East to the AAC, and now injuries. Those aren't excuses, those are facts.

The next couple years (barring injuries) will show us whether or not he can get it done, but he has been behind the 8 ball from the very beginning.
You are not an apologista. You are a KotO.
 
Okay, i guess. What is a KotO?

(My apologista tag refers to Edsall 1.0, the original best-worst head coach ever)
I'm familiar with you and the football forum and Randy 2.0.

A lot of us in this forum have pointed to the APR and how that plus injuries have put a stranglehold on Kevin Ollie's ability to have success. So we get tagged with being called apologists.

I argue against that. I apologize to no one regarding my position. Instead I consider myself and likewise posters as KotO - Knights of the Ollie. We are defenders of his situation and not excuse makers.
 
Yeah I've heard this argument and...I'm not really buying this. Purvis was a McD AA and 5 star recruit. He has played very well at times. Adams was a five star recruit who has looked transcendent at times, and clumsy at others. Brimah has great days, but is indeed limited. Facey has actually been much better than anyone hoped. So have Vital and Vance as Freshmen. Enoch has some clear offensive skill, more than any big man in years honestly. So what happened...all of these guys just suddenly, en masse became unable to shoot or rebound or pass or dribble without it going off their foot? Unable to defend a 3 point shot or block out? Occam's razor tells me that isn't likely. No more likely than a team with Obi at safety being unable to stop Syracuse's passing game.

I don't think they were put in a position to succeed. I think that was true even before the two big injuries hit. I think they are running an offense that is archaic and easily defended. An offense that relies much too heavily on individual ability to break down an opponent. Let's be fair to Ollie, that's based on Calhoun's offense, and it did work for years, and in particular in years when we had exceptional one on one players. We don't this year and won't next year. They cannot keep running that offense. It needs to go to the scrap heap. A better PG isn't a magic cure either. It was obvious all year that nobody on that team has any real role on offense...constantly waving each other this way and that, weaving pointlessly out beyond the arc. Did you see other teams doing that? Who? Watch the better coached teams play offense and tell me you see anything that looks as sloppy and ill-defined as what we run. This isn't new. The offense sucked last year too, but at least the D was decent.

Defense, that's where the injuries hurt most. UConn D has always been a very high level of effort man. Purvis played it that way most of the year. Vital seemed to catch on. Adams...not so much. Vance...he got better but isn't there, and I wouldn't expect him to be. So they went to zone that they honestly looked like they didn't know how to play. In short, the lack of depth and inability to sub meant that the D had to too take too many pauses, during which opponents went on runs. If the offense wasn't garbage, maybe we withstand those runs.
Well, since it's my post you're responding to, I'll respond to you directly, though I've seen others do so above. And I hate that you're going to force me to write things I wish I didn't have to about players whom I like and who have been dedicated to the team.

Re: Purvis, can anyone point to a single moment, either at NC St., or here, when he's played consistently like the 5* McDAA he was in high school? That, my friends, is being over-rated. He's a solid athlete, a good defender on the perimeter and plays hard. But at 6'3"-6'4" he needs to handle the rock and pass better. He needs to be a much more consistent outside shooter, not just having moments when he gets red hot, then throws up a 1-10 his next couple games. How many times was he stripped clean on the way to the hoop, or did he throw up an off-balance heave when he wasn't? And he needs to have much better court sense - he doesn't see the court that well. Too many times I've seen him unable to locate the open area and give himself the extra half second to get his shot off. He's a stand-still jump shooter who doesn't get his feet and hands ready to shoot before the ball arrives. So while he holds the credentials, he's never played to the label. Just ask yourself, would you rather have Purvis or Troy Caupain for the last 3 years?

No all of those guys didn't just suddenly forget how to dribble and shoot. Most of them, save Jackson and Adams, weren't reliable shooters to begin with. And Jackson is a freshman who wasn't being counted upon initially. Adams is a sophomore. (And you recall Walker and Napier as sophomores, don't you?) Save for Adams no one could ever beat their guy off the dribble. And then he got injured late in the season, with big games approaching. I've written in other threads that I thought Ollie should have instituted a more structured offense rather than the pro-style dribble drive and dish with this group. But I think that became apparent during the season, rather than before the season, once the other two guys who could dribble-drive got injured. That's tough sledding.

Vital was a freshman. He showed it at times, and he shone at times, as freshman do. He's tough and plays hard. But he's a freshman. You conveniently ignored Enoch's defensive limitations and propensity to foul, which kept him from a much bigger role even with the better offensive skills. Great with baby hooks and short jumpers, but at 6'11" he also had some trouble finishing at the hoop. As I wrote, Facey was perhaps the most consistent and reliable performer, but remember that in the first 4-5 games even that wasn't the case. And in the first half yesterday he was 0-8. Is that on Ollie? As for defense, they actually played the zone pretty well, though didn't rebound well out of it. Heck, they didn't rebound much better against strong front lines in the man, either.

The senior class is what they are, and that's why their record is what it is. But they gave their all and played hard, and I like that. I like last years recruit class, and I like next years class. This will build.
 
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I believe what some of this year's issues have boiled down to is the fact that KO seems to run his offense through his more senior players (Purvis, Facey and Brimah). Unfortunately, 2 out of these 3 guys just aren't consistent. If you look back at some of the stats, we haven't had very many games where 2 players on our team have had a good game on the same night (I'm defining "good" as making 50% of your shots and scoring over 15 points). In fact, the biggest reason has been Purvis' poor shooting. He was consistently a 43-44% shooter during his previous 3 years, and this year he has shot 36%. Some of this is likely a result of having to take more shots and be more of a focus of the offense rather than getting his shots in the flow of the offense. When he is on and we get contributions from either Jackson or Vital, we're usually in a good position, but he hasn't been on very much. I think Jalen often defers on the offensive side and that has hurt us a bit as well (the past few weeks he has been hurt so I think he's had to defer even more). I actually think the only chance we have at making a run is having Purvis shoot it well and getting more shots for Vance...I don't think we can rely on Jalen being 100% for the remainder of the year.
 
Why did so many players miss so many shots?
I know you guys hate bringing up the UC women, but watching their game last night, I couldn't help but wonder....WHY are the women such better shooters than the guys? It boggles my mind to think these guys can't just put the ball in the hoop. That is the most basic of basics, isn't it?
 
I know you guys hate bringing up the UC women, but watching their game last night, I couldn't help but wonder....WHY are the women such better shooters than the guys? It boggles my mind to think these guys can't just put the ball in the hoop. That is the most basic of basics, isn't it?

Hard to compare with the smaller ball.
 
It doesn't matter. Without Ollie, UConn basketball is OVER.
I could not disagree with you more... Was North Carolina over when Dean Smith retired? UCLA /Wooden (granted it took a while for them to get back to relevance), Pitino/Kentucky? If we do happen to move on from KO, we'll find another coach who can get the program back to prominence.
 
Not trying to compare....just wondering how athletes can get to that level and not be able to make the ball go through the cylinder.
 
I could not disagree with you more... Was North Carolina over when Dean Smith retired? UCLA /Wooden (granted it took a while for them to get back to relevance), Pitino/Kentucky? If we do happen to move on from KO, we'll find another coach who can get the program back to prominence.

UConn in the AAC. Compared to North Carolina in the ACC, UCLA in the Pac012, and Kentucky! And I'm the one being called out?

Wow.
 
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Which points. In one paragraph he points out that they were put in a position not to succeed (I'm assuming he was pointing to KO). In another he cites injuries impacting defense. Seems contradictory.

In another he points to stars but his analysis does not discuss positional players. From the newbies I would expect this but he follows football and understands positional players and how missing positional players is key to the overall functioning of the team. The intricacies of following a football team are far more difficult than basketball and yet hawk's analysis with regards to this basketball team are superficial at best.

The only contention I can remotely consider is why did everything seem to go wrong? Why did so many players miss so many shots? But even this point loses validity because players were extremely inconsistent. You'd get good games from different players throughout the season. If KO was in some way unable to motivate his players than you would not have expected games where Vital did well and Jackson disappeared and vice versa.

The inconsistency is more likely something about the players than the coaches and that doesn't necessarily imply the players are anything but human. I'm sure the horrible start to the season caused them to lose confidence in themselves and that the injuries to two starters exacerbated the problem. But even with this explanation I, like @HuskyHawk, cannot believe how so much went so wrong over this season. I just don't buy his razor. That it's on the coaches. Sometimes life deals us blows that are outside our control. I know many people who went through a period of one bad thing happening to them after another and they were blameless for all of it. There is only so much that is under our control whether we like it or not.

I'm not all or nothing. My argument doesn't say "it's all on the coaches". But I absolutely reject the "it's all on the players, these guys are just dumb and can't be coached". Really? The whole group? Even just the seniors? Not probable. Not possible if we're honest. It's a cop out.

So in essence I said that Ollie's use of his roster, especially on offense, and his offensive system is not good. It stinks. In particular, that system is a bad fit for these players, and it's on Ollie to adjust to them, and get the most out of them. That's his job. Did injuries hurt? Of course! But I think they hurt much more on defense, where we lost any real ability to substitute, meaning we couldn't play UConn's defense. That system is good. It's proven. It works.

So we have an ineffective offensive system, which was not very good before the injuries (contributing to two losses to terrible teams and much too close win to a third bad team) and was dreadful after them. We have a very good defensive system and team, but which could only play that level of defense 15-20 minutes a game due to inability to substitute.
 
Let me give you some AAC related big man problems that UConn is having.

We lost 2 bigs to BE teams over the last couple of years. Both of these kids like Ollie and liked UConn, and UConn was even leading for them, and on them early, but both Omari Spellman and Jesse Govan went to the BE teams that couldn't sniff UConn's jock for 20 years in the BE. And Spellman signed with Nova BEFORE it went on a national championship run. In fact, the last time Spellman saw Nova compete against UConn was when UConn blew Nova out in the tourney 2nd round.

These are AAC style problems that UConn is having.

Govan and Spellman weigh like 260 pounds.
 
I know you guys hate bringing up the UC women, but watching their game last night, I couldn't help but wonder....WHY are the women such better shooters than the guys? It boggles my mind to think these guys can't just put the ball in the hoop. That is the most basic of basics, isn't it?
And yet Katie Lou was in a slump prior to that game shooting about 30% from three. And some people on the women's forum were getting concerned. So even the best sometimes struggle.
 
Anyone not seeing the obvious limitations of our players is willfully ignorant. What did we have for weapons this year? A good lead guard who can create his own shot and get to the rim, a couple of decent standstill jump shooters who can't shoot coming off screens, and a serviceable post threat in Facey. The offense reflected that, despite the unsupported claims that it was inflexible and archaic. We essentially relied on the one guy who could break down defenders off the dribble to penetrate and kick to open shooters, or tried to play inside out with Facey in the post. Motion wasn't going to work with guys who can't shoot on the move. Not that we ran what we did run particularly well -- the waving people around was in order to get spacing correct, but you would think that would correct itself at some point during the season. And none of it accounts for the opening losses to Wagner and Northeastern. That's why next year will be telling . . .
 
Motion with purpose, and quick ball movement leads to layups and open jumpers (catch and shoot). Not shots "on the move". I've never seen an offense designed to get guys to "shoot on the move", unless that shot is a layup. All 5 guys don't need to be in motion, but at least 2 or three do.

The back and forth passes across the top of the zone are a waste of time. Standing still and passing the ball around the zone is a great way to kill the clock and end up forcing something as the shot clock winds down. When the zone rotates it creates open space, but the offense has to step in and take that space. Instead our guys sit outside the arc and fall in love with the three, but we aren't a good shooting team.

That's why losing Gilbert and Larrier and their ability to both shoot and attack the zone was so important.
 
Let me give you some AAC related big man problems that UConn is having.

We lost 2 bigs to BE teams over the last couple of years. Both of these kids like Ollie and liked UConn, and UConn was even leading for them, and on them early, but both Omari Spellman and Jesse Govan went to the BE teams that couldn't sniff UConn's jock for 20 years in the BE. And Spellman signed with Nova BEFORE it went on a national championship run. In fact, the last time Spellman saw Nova compete against UConn was when UConn blew Nova out in the tourney 2nd round.

These are AAC style problems that UConn is having.

Govan and Spellman weigh like 260 pounds.

Wait - you're trying to make the argument that recruiting guards and swing men is not an issue in the AAC (it hasn't been) but that the line is drawn with big men who won't play in the AAC?

Isn't it more likely that UConn, besides Drummond, hasn't put a quality big man into the league since Charlie V back in 2005?

At least in that stretch with Calhoun the bigs got drafted like in the 1st round like Boone, Hilton and Thabeet.

UConn's big man recruiting has one big issue and that is our staffs haven't put quality big men into the league in ages. Kids notice that more than league affiliation.
 
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Wait - you're trying to make the argument that recruiting guards and swing men is not an issue in the AAC (it hasn't been) but that the line is drawn with big men who won't play in the AAC?

Isn't it more likely that UConn, besides Drummond, hasn't put a quality big man into the league since Charlie V back in 2005?

At least in that stretch with Calhoun the bigs got drafted like in the 1st round like Boone, Hilton and Thabeet.

UConn's big man recruiting has one big issue and that is our staffs haven't put quality big men into the league in ages. Kids notice that more than league affiliation.

UConn lost Govan coming off an NC and prior years when underrated talent held their own on the court (Olander, Okwandu). Do I think kids like Spellman and Govan would come to UConn if not for the AAC? Yes. Maybe not both, but certainly one.

Not sure if Brimah scared anyone away or what, but there is playing time here.
 
Just watching during the Ollie regime some things stand out. Ollie still favors coaching pro style , and continues to cultivate guard play. Big men have come and gone but dont seem to improve under their position coaches. Having won in the past with guard oriented ,tough defense pressure and a shot blocker he seemed locked in on this recipe.After Daniels and Hamilton left for the big show we have lacked shooting from the 3 spot either due to injuries or lack of talent.We thought Lubin was going to be that big lunch pail go to work power guy and he didnt pan out, and now Enoch is playing soft . Something is wrong position coach wise and for me that would be the first adjustment if this team falters when healthy.
 
UConn lost Govan coming off an NC and prior years when underrated talent held their own on the court (Olander, Okwandu). Do I think kids like Spellman and Govan would come to UConn if not for the AAC? Yes. Maybe not both, but certainly one.

Not sure if Brimah scared anyone away or what, but there is playing time here.

That's too small of a sample to garner whether or not the AAC swayed their decision. Especially given that while in the AAC we've consistently landed top flight guards and wings.

I think it's far more likely that guards see UConn and see a tradition of quality with Kemba, Lamb, Napier, Boatright and now Adams and with Ollie being a former NBA PG it's a desirable place to come play.

To my prior point about big men, it's not the same as it was when Calhoun was here and we lead the nation in shot blocking for about a decade. You're basically looking at Drummond and then a mish mash of serviceable at best big men since Adrien and Thabeet left (Oriahki certainly showed flashes and was a major factor in the 2011 run I will say).

Like you, I agree that KO becoming the face of the program and improving is our best shot at being an elite destination. I do not think he is our only shot though.

We can blame the AAC for some things, but when it comes to recruiting and developing big men, I think that's on the staff, not the league.
 
I believe what some of this year's issues have boiled down to is the fact that KO seems to run his offense through his more senior players (Purvis, Facey and Brimah). Unfortunately, 2 out of these 3 guys just aren't consistent. If you look back at some of the stats, we haven't had very many games where 2 players on our team have had a good game on the same night (I'm defining "good" as making 50% of your shots and scoring over 15 points). In fact, the biggest reason has been Purvis' poor shooting. He was consistently a 43-44% shooter during his previous 3 years, and this year he has shot 36%. Some of this is likely a result of having to take more shots and be more of a focus of the offense rather than getting his shots in the flow of the offense. When he is on and we get contributions from either Jackson or Vital, we're usually in a good position, but he hasn't been on very much. I think Jalen often defers on the offensive side and that has hurt us a bit as well (the past few weeks he has been hurt so I think he's had to defer even more). I actually think the only chance we have at making a run is having Purvis shoot it well and getting more shots for Vance...I don't think we can rely on Jalen being 100% for the remainder of the year.
Agree with struggling to get consistently good performances from more than two players, but the rest of the post isn't backed up by statistics.

When it comes to seniors in the past thirteen games I'm not seeing much difference in who had the better offensive performances between Kentan and Rodney and yet I'd bet the predominate opinion in this forum is similar to yours. That Kentan was far superior to Rodney and far more consistent. And Jalen deferring to Rodney is patently incorrect.

UConn vs SMU ............ ECU vs. UConn ...... UConn vs. USF ........Tulane vs. UConn
Kentan 6-9 1-1 ...........Kentan 4-10 5-5........ Kentan 4-12 4-6.......Kentan 8-15 4-5
Jalen 1-10 1-2 ...........Jalen 8-11 2-2 ....... Jalen 6-14 6-6.......Jalen 3-15 2-2
Rodney 0-4 2-2 .......... Rodney 6-12 3-4 ...... Rodney 4-7 3-5......Rodney 4-9 4-4

UConn vs. Cinci ....... USF vs. UConn......... UConn vs. UCF..........Memphis vs. UConn
Kentan 1-8 0-0 ..... Kentan 3-7 1-2....... Kentan 5-9 2-2........Kentan 2-5 4-6
Jalen 3-9 2-2....... Jalen 6-9 0-0......Jalen 6-11 2-2....... Jalen 8-16 1-2
Rodney 8-14 0-0 ..... Rodney 8-13 1-1 ......Rodney 5-12 3-4 ........Rodney 4-13 0-0
Brimah 6-12 4-6

UConn vs. Temple .......... UConn vs. Houston ......... UConn vs. SMU ..........UConn vs. East Carolina
Kentan 3-5 2-4 ..........Kentan 4-10 1-3........ Kentan 6-9 2-2 ......... Kentan 2-7 8-14
Jalen 5-13 2-2 ....... Jalen 5-14 7-8...........Jalen 1-10 1-2........... Jalen 5-15 1-1
Rodney 7-14 0-0..........Rodney 3-8 3-4......... Rodney o-4 2-2...........Rodney 3-15 3-3
Christian 2-12 2-2


Cinci vs. UConn
Kentan 1-9 6-6
Jalen 2-7 0-0
Rodney 4-11 6-6
Brimah 5-6 1-4
 
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I know you guys hate bringing up the UC women, but watching their game last night, I couldn't help but wonder....WHY are the women such better shooters than the guys? It boggles my mind to think these guys can't just put the ball in the hoop. That is the most basic of basics, isn't it?

Well considering that 99% of the women have zero athleticism, quickness, or hops if they can't shoot from the perimeter what good are they for at the D-1 level. The men's game is played at a much higher intensity level, with better athletes, and better defenders. Put Katie Lou at your local varsity men's high school basketball team and see how well she shoots against the boys. Plus the guys we have aren't exactly shown for being shooters other than Vance. We have mostly slashers and athletes on the team.
 
To all the KO apologists who claim it was injuries that derailed this season, you do realize that KO made a conscious decision to have 11 scholarship players instead of 13 on the roster?

Probably not the greatest decision knowing that Gilbert, Durham and Diarra all had fairly significant injuries prior to coming to UConn.

At some point, there has to be some accountability on the coaching staff.
 
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To all the KO apologists who claim it was injuries that derailed this season, you do realize that KO made a conscious decision to have 11 scholarship players instead of 13 on the roster?

Probably not the greatest decision knowing that Gilbert, Durham and Diarra all had fairly significant injuries prior to coming to UConn.

At some point, there has to be some accountability on the coaching staff.

You do realize they sign commitments in November, right?
 
You do realize they sign commitments in November, right?

And there are no options to bring in additional recruits to round out the roster after November?

Some of you excuse makers astound me?
 
We need a bucket getter. Next year the team will consist of 4 point/combo guards(MAL, Jalen, Gilbert, Vital) and 3 tweener 6 ft 8 combo forwards(Larrier, Vance, Polley). There is no in between 6 ft 5 swingman/wing on this roster that can score like a guard on offense and defend a 3 on defense. It is a poorly constructed roster in this way. It seems like they are obsessed with recruiting these combo forwards that seem miscast as college 3 spots. Ollie usually always reverts to a small 3 guard lineup anyway so why pretend? Versatility is great but having 3 of these guys instead of having at least one true college wing is not a balanced roster.
 
And there are no options to bring in additional recruits to round out the roster after November?

Some of you excuse makers astound me?

Have you even looked at the recruiting rankings?

It is now March. The McD's All-American game hasn't even happened yet.

From 20 to 100, there are 5 uncommitteds. One of them is Zach Brown. 2 are from overseas and probably won't play American ball. I'm sure Ollie would love to have a spring signee like Mohammed Bamba. But the chances are slim.

From 100 to 150, there are 2 uncommitteds. One of them is a kid named Ondigo from Putnam Science. A 6-11 center from Putnam Science who has never even been mentioned on this board.

The point is, there are hardly any kids available in the spring. The kids that were available? Ollie went after them. Jaylen Fisher and Alpha Diallo committed elsewhere in the spring. Taurean Thompson was on UConn's campus for an official in the summer. He committed to Syracuse in July.

But again, Alterique got hurt in the McDs game. Durham was hurt before that, but Durham did not have any injury issues with his knees this year. As for Diarra, can you provide a link that shows we knew there were injury issues last year?

Some of you haters astound me.
 
Have you even looked at the recruiting rankings?

It is now March. The McD's All-American game hasn't even happened yet.

From 20 to 100, there are 5 uncommitteds. One of them is Zach Brown. 2 are from overseas and probably won't play American ball. I'm sure Ollie would love to have a spring signee like Mohammed Bamba. But the chances are slim.

From 100 to 150, there are 2 uncommitteds. One of them is a kid named Ondigo from Putnam Science. A 6-11 center from Putnam Science who has never even been mentioned on this board.

The point is, there are hardly any kids available in the spring. The kids that were available? Ollie went after them. Jaylen Fisher and Alpha Diallo committed elsewhere in the spring. Taurean Thompson was on UConn's campus for an official in the summer. He committed to Syracuse in July.

But again, Alterique got hurt in the McDs game. Durham was hurt before that, but Durham did not have any injury issues with his knees this year. As for Diarra, can you provide a link that shows we knew there were injury issues last year?

Some of you haters astound me.


Pretty simple everyone isn't it:

Haters will hate and apologists will apologize :oops:
 
We need a bucket getter. Next year the team will consist of 4 point/combo guards(MAL, Jalen, Gilbert, Vital) and 3 tweener 6 ft 8 combo forwards(Larrier, Vance, Polley). There is no in between 6 ft 5 swingman/wing on this roster that can score like a guard on offense and defend a 3 on defense. It is a poorly constructed roster in this way. It seems like they are obsessed with recruiting these combo forwards that seem miscast as college 3 spots. Ollie usually always reverts to a small 3 guard lineup anyway so why pretend? Versatility is great but having 3 of these guys instead of having at least one true college wing is not a balanced roster.
Literally said the same thing about the random Polley signing. Guys like him are promising and when they work out are worth gold but most times they are too raw and don't really solve our problems in a weak front court. Let's hope he comes in more polished than advertised.
 
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