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Chief00

You are a Forrest Gump character ... never know what chocolate we are gonna get and always in the name dropping circus.

I don't ever call my attorney ... but he's a phone call away. Calhoun has a legacy and he (plus 40 others) is near. Maybe not in the strategic meetings ... but not too far. (How far is that beach house? Chief?)

Calhoun had "more than his fair share" of poorly coached teams - you got to be kidding me!! Look at the man's record of consecutive winning seasons and tournament success.

He use to observe both practice and games and give feedback - but since he started his ESPN gig - he no longer does that on a regular basis. This is not exactly a secret - he is on the road doing his ESPN Big10 thing - 9,000 people did not see him in the house yesterday.
 
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My thoughts from the start. Once injured it never heals 100%. One of Geno's assistant, girl with long blonde hair. I recall she injured her leg. Out the whole season, came back and reinjured it . In fact maybe I am wrong, but she injured it a 3rd time and that was it. Isn't this Gilbert's second time?
I have been saying this for the longest time and yet I get a lot of flack for it. If a recruit has a preexisting injury, most of the time, that injury will recur. When it does heal, it is never back to 100%. I don't think UConn fans should hang their hopes on this guy will carry the team next year.
 

Doctor Hoop

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why is it a stupid argument? If we lost that first game, do you think people on the board would give Ollie any rope at all this point? He did a marvelous job with the team in the post season and taking over for Calhoun.

What accounts for such a drop off then? Is it the divorce? Ollie doesnt seem like he has that same fire as when he first started.

Have to wonder if you are right. Some times he is animate on the sidelines like he used to be; other times (a lot) just sitting with sad faces. If this is a big problem I hope he gets help. I just don't know but the body language is really saying something. Grief can be devastating.
There may be another reason. Perhaps the body language on the sideline had more to do with frustration over just not being able to get this group of players to execute the way he wanted, no matter what he tried. There is a dichotomy on this board between those who blame the coaches, and those who fault the players. In watching the games I see many of the players making simple fundamental errors, unable to knock down simple open shots, not seeing the double teams and getting the ball knocked away, unable to box out, unable to put the ball on the floor and go past their man. I don't think the players gave up. Rather, I think this was what they were capable of, that many overrated their abilities, and that Ollie's sometimes morose sideline demeanor had more to do with frustration.

Remember that this current senior class was recruited a) after the departure of Calhoun, b) during the APR tourney ban season and c) before the 2014 NC. That gave us Samuel, Facey and Brimah. Purvis, another senior, was allowed to walk from NC St. Now we know why. He was losing PT to the less heralded Lorenzo Brown while he was there. Of those four only Facey developed more court sense, a more mature game, and significantly improved production, but even he was stunted by bringing in one season of Miller.
 
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There may be another reason. Perhaps the body language on the sideline had more to do with frustration over just not being able to get this group of players to execute the way he wanted, no matter what he tried. There is a dichotomy on this board between those who blame the coaches, and those who fault the players. In watching the games I see many of the players making simple fundamental errors, unable to knock down simple open shots, not seeing the double teams and getting the ball knocked away, unable to box out, unable to put the ball on the floor and go past their man. I don't think the players gave up. Rather, I think this was what they were capable of, that many overrated their abilities, and that Ollie's sometimes morose sideline demeanor had more to do with frustration.

Remember that this current senior class was recruited a) after the departure of Calhoun, b) during the APR tourney ban season and c) before the 2014 NC. That gave us Samuel, Facey and Brimah. Purvis, another senior, was allowed to walk from NC St. Now we know why. He was losing PT to the less heralded Lorenzo Brown while he was there. Of those four only Facey developed more court sense, a more mature game, and significantly improved production, but even he was stunted by bringing in one season of Miller.

I think this is a well thought out post. I like KO. I want him to succeed as much as anyone. From 2012 to 2014 he had a swagger and exhibited confidence. That truly seems to be missing since Bazz left.

I truly hope that things come together next season with a full, healthy roster. I am not looking for miracles or another national championship, although that would be fantastic. I am simply looking to have a team that at least contends for an AAC regular season title and is somewhat relevant on the national stage. Given UConn's history since 1988, I dont think that is unreasonable.
 

HuskyHawk

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There may be another reason. Perhaps the body language on the sideline had more to do with frustration over just not being able to get this group of players to execute the way he wanted, no matter what he tried. There is a dichotomy on this board between those who blame the coaches, and those who fault the players. In watching the games I see many of the players making simple fundamental errors, unable to knock down simple open shots, not seeing the double teams and getting the ball knocked away, unable to box out, unable to put the ball on the floor and go past their man. I don't think the players gave up. Rather, I think this was what they were capable of, that many overrated their abilities, and that Ollie's sometimes morose sideline demeanor had more to do with frustration.

Remember that this current senior class was recruited a) after the departure of Calhoun, b) during the APR tourney ban season and c) before the 2014 NC. That gave us Samuel, Facey and Brimah. Purvis, another senior, was allowed to walk from NC St. Now we know why. He was losing PT to the less heralded Lorenzo Brown while he was there. Of those four only Facey developed more court sense, a more mature game, and significantly improved production, but even he was stunted by bringing in one season of Miller.

Yeah I've heard this argument and...I'm not really buying this. Purvis was a McD AA and 5 star recruit. He has played very well at times. Adams was a five star recruit who has looked transcendent at times, and clumsy at others. Brimah has great days, but is indeed limited. Facey has actually been much better than anyone hoped. So have Vital and Vance as Freshmen. Enoch has some clear offensive skill, more than any big man in years honestly. So what happened...all of these guys just suddenly, en masse became unable to shoot or rebound or pass or dribble without it going off their foot? Unable to defend a 3 point shot or block out? Occam's razor tells me that isn't likely. No more likely than a team with Obi at safety being unable to stop Syracuse's passing game.

I don't think they were put in a position to succeed. I think that was true even before the two big injuries hit. I think they are running an offense that is archaic and easily defended. An offense that relies much too heavily on individual ability to break down an opponent. Let's be fair to Ollie, that's based on Calhoun's offense, and it did work for years, and in particular in years when we had exceptional one on one players. We don't this year and won't next year. They cannot keep running that offense. It needs to go to the scrap heap. A better PG isn't a magic cure either. It was obvious all year that nobody on that team has any real role on offense...constantly waving each other this way and that, weaving pointlessly out beyond the arc. Did you see other teams doing that? Who? Watch the better coached teams play offense and tell me you see anything that looks as sloppy and ill-defined as what we run. This isn't new. The offense sucked last year too, but at least the D was decent.

Defense, that's where the injuries hurt most. UConn D has always been a very high level of effort man. Purvis played it that way most of the year. Vital seemed to catch on. Adams...not so much. Vance...he got better but isn't there, and I wouldn't expect him to be. So they went to zone that they honestly looked like they didn't know how to play. In short, the lack of depth and inability to sub meant that the D had to too take too many pauses, during which opponents went on runs. If the offense wasn't garbage, maybe we withstand those runs.
 
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Calhoun had "more than his fair share" of poorly coached teams - you got to be kidding me!! Look at the man's record of consecutive winning seasons and tournament success.

He use to observe both practice and games and give feedback - but since he started his ESPN gig - he no longer does that on a regular basis. This is not exactly a secret - he is on the road doing his ESPN Big10 thing - 9,000 people did not see him in the house yesterday.

Seriously ... are you developmentally disabled.

Read the sequence of words. Then you impute something ... add words ... and go off on some idiosyncratic tangent. Where did you ever find this "more than his fair share" concept?
 
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Crazy theories.

It was Bazz? How about it was Stephanie and the divorce?

You can't have all these things in a stew. Ollie didn't correctly and skillfully mix Daniels-Napier-Giffey-Kromah-Boatright-Brimah into a bulldozer in 2014; and then have zero feel for forming roles in a Team the last two years. And that Zone? I don't think, necessarily, it is because our kids cannot play defense ... as much as we were forced to play several zones we really have never taught in Storrs before due to - injuries. I do not think Ollie suddenly was exposed as much as the system that succeeded for so many years cannot juggle deficiencies throughout the play of 30 games. Long year. And hard few months to re-boot. Given the kids showing up for next October's Husky Run, we have all we need - save one solid Big. Yup ... crucial year.
 
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Yeah I've heard this argument and...I'm not really buying this. Purvis was a McD AA and 5 star recruit. He has played very well at times. Adams was a five star recruit who has looked transcendent at times, and clumsy at others. Brimah has great days, but is indeed limited. Facey has actually been much better than anyone hoped. So have Vital and Vance as Freshmen. Enoch has some clear offensive skill, more than any big man in years honestly. So what happened...all of these guys just suddenly, en masse became unable to shoot or rebound or pass or dribble without it going off their foot? Unable to defend a 3 point shot or block out? Occam's razor tells me that isn't likely. No more likely than a team with Obi at safety being unable to stop Syracuse's passing game.

I don't think they were put in a position to succeed. I think that was true even before the two big injuries hit. I think they are running an offense that is archaic and easily defended. An offense that relies much too heavily on individual ability to break down an opponent. Let's be fair to Ollie, that's based on Calhoun's offense, and it did work for years, and in particular in years when we had exceptional one on one players. We don't this year and won't next year. They cannot keep running that offense. It needs to go to the scrap heap. A better PG isn't a magic cure either. It was obvious all year that nobody on that team has any real role on offense...constantly waving each other this way and that, weaving pointlessly out beyond the arc. Did you see other teams doing that? Who? Watch the better coached teams play offense and tell me you see anything that looks as sloppy and ill-defined as what we run. This isn't new. The offense sucked last year too, but at least the D was decent.

Defense, that's where the injuries hurt most. UConn D has always been a very high level of effort man. Purvis played it that way most of the year. Vital seemed to catch on. Adams...not so much. Vance...he got better but isn't there, and I wouldn't expect him to be. So they went to zone that they honestly looked like they didn't know how to play. In short, the lack of depth and inability to sub meant that the D had to too take too many pauses, during which opponents went on runs. If the offense wasn't garbage, maybe we withstand those runs.

Killer post. You raise a number of valid points that the apologists won't like.
 

Mr. French

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Killer post. You raise a number of valid points that the apologists won't like.

Expect that our offense is archaic and based heavily on Calhoun's offenses, with the implication that Calhoun could run it properly and with the right players, whereas Ollie can't.

Other than that 60% of the entire post, the thing was spot on....i guess, I dno.
 

ctchamps

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Killer post. You raise a number of valid points that the apologists won't like.
Which points. In one paragraph he points out that they were put in a position not to succeed (I'm assuming he was pointing to KO). In another he cites injuries impacting defense. Seems contradictory.

In another he points to stars but his analysis does not discuss positional players. From the newbies I would expect this but he follows football and understands positional players and how missing positional players is key to the overall functioning of the team. The intricacies of following a football team are far more difficult than basketball and yet hawk's analysis with regards to this basketball team are superficial at best.

The only contention I can remotely consider is why did everything seem to go wrong? Why did so many players miss so many shots? But even this point loses validity because players were extremely inconsistent. You'd get good games from different players throughout the season. If KO was in some way unable to motivate his players than you would not have expected games where Vital did well and Jackson disappeared and vice versa.

The inconsistency is more likely something about the players than the coaches and that doesn't necessarily imply the players are anything but human. I'm sure the horrible start to the season caused them to lose confidence in themselves and that the injuries to two starters exacerbated the problem. But even with this explanation I, like @HuskyHawk, cannot believe how so much went so wrong over this season. I just don't buy his razor. That it's on the coaches. Sometimes life deals us blows that are outside our control. I know many people who went through a period of one bad thing happening to them after another and they were blameless for all of it. There is only so much that is under our control whether we like it or not.
 
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Ollie's offense is painful to watch when he doesn't have a dynamic PG to bail out the other 4 guys. There's simply not enough motion in the offense, it's largely an NBA one on one offense. Without a true PG, and athletic swing man, this team never had a chance.

The expectations for this team changed in November. Everyone outside the program said it would be incredibly difficult to make the tournament without Larrier and Gilbert. Ollie has been very underwhelming after inheriting his national championship team. He was critical to keeping it together. But he's got to show the ability to recruit well on the court, not on paper.

The next two years are critical, if we are healthy, and not in the NCAA tourney, then people have every right to question whether or not we should move on. Ollie had to overcome the recruiting sanctions, going from the Big East to the AAC, and now injuries. Those aren't excuses, those are facts.

The next couple years (barring injuries) will show us whether or not he can get it done, but he has been behind the 8 ball from the very beginning.
 

ctchamps

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Ollie's offense is painful to watch when he doesn't have a dynamic PG to bail out the other 4 guys. There's simply not enough motion in the offense, it's largely an NBA one on one offense. Without a true PG, and athletic swing man, this team never had a chance.

The expectations for this team changed in November. Everyone outside the program said it would be incredibly difficult to make the tournament without Larrier and Gilbert. Ollie has been very underwhelming after inheriting his national championship team. He was critical to keeping it together. But he's got to show the ability to recruit well on the court, not on paper.

The next two years are critical, if we are healthy, and not in the NCAA tourney, then people have every right to question whether or not we should move on. Ollie had to overcome the recruiting sanctions, going from the Big East to the AAC, and now injuries. Those aren't excuses, those are facts.

The next couple years (barring injuries) will show us whether or not he can get it done, but he has been behind the 8 ball from the very beginning.
You are not an apologista. You are a KotO.
 

ctchamps

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Okay, i guess. What is a KotO?

(My apologista tag refers to Edsall 1.0, the original best-worst head coach ever)
I'm familiar with you and the football forum and Randy 2.0.

A lot of us in this forum have pointed to the APR and how that plus injuries have put a stranglehold on Kevin Ollie's ability to have success. So we get tagged with being called apologists.

I argue against that. I apologize to no one regarding my position. Instead I consider myself and likewise posters as KotO - Knights of the Ollie. We are defenders of his situation and not excuse makers.
 

Doctor Hoop

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Yeah I've heard this argument and...I'm not really buying this. Purvis was a McD AA and 5 star recruit. He has played very well at times. Adams was a five star recruit who has looked transcendent at times, and clumsy at others. Brimah has great days, but is indeed limited. Facey has actually been much better than anyone hoped. So have Vital and Vance as Freshmen. Enoch has some clear offensive skill, more than any big man in years honestly. So what happened...all of these guys just suddenly, en masse became unable to shoot or rebound or pass or dribble without it going off their foot? Unable to defend a 3 point shot or block out? Occam's razor tells me that isn't likely. No more likely than a team with Obi at safety being unable to stop Syracuse's passing game.

I don't think they were put in a position to succeed. I think that was true even before the two big injuries hit. I think they are running an offense that is archaic and easily defended. An offense that relies much too heavily on individual ability to break down an opponent. Let's be fair to Ollie, that's based on Calhoun's offense, and it did work for years, and in particular in years when we had exceptional one on one players. We don't this year and won't next year. They cannot keep running that offense. It needs to go to the scrap heap. A better PG isn't a magic cure either. It was obvious all year that nobody on that team has any real role on offense...constantly waving each other this way and that, weaving pointlessly out beyond the arc. Did you see other teams doing that? Who? Watch the better coached teams play offense and tell me you see anything that looks as sloppy and ill-defined as what we run. This isn't new. The offense sucked last year too, but at least the D was decent.

Defense, that's where the injuries hurt most. UConn D has always been a very high level of effort man. Purvis played it that way most of the year. Vital seemed to catch on. Adams...not so much. Vance...he got better but isn't there, and I wouldn't expect him to be. So they went to zone that they honestly looked like they didn't know how to play. In short, the lack of depth and inability to sub meant that the D had to too take too many pauses, during which opponents went on runs. If the offense wasn't garbage, maybe we withstand those runs.
Well, since it's my post you're responding to, I'll respond to you directly, though I've seen others do so above. And I hate that you're going to force me to write things I wish I didn't have to about players whom I like and who have been dedicated to the team.

Re: Purvis, can anyone point to a single moment, either at NC St., or here, when he's played consistently like the 5* McDAA he was in high school? That, my friends, is being over-rated. He's a solid athlete, a good defender on the perimeter and plays hard. But at 6'3"-6'4" he needs to handle the rock and pass better. He needs to be a much more consistent outside shooter, not just having moments when he gets red hot, then throws up a 1-10 his next couple games. How many times was he stripped clean on the way to the hoop, or did he throw up an off-balance heave when he wasn't? And he needs to have much better court sense - he doesn't see the court that well. Too many times I've seen him unable to locate the open area and give himself the extra half second to get his shot off. He's a stand-still jump shooter who doesn't get his feet and hands ready to shoot before the ball arrives. So while he holds the credentials, he's never played to the label. Just ask yourself, would you rather have Purvis or Troy Caupain for the last 3 years?

No all of those guys didn't just suddenly forget how to dribble and shoot. Most of them, save Jackson and Adams, weren't reliable shooters to begin with. And Jackson is a freshman who wasn't being counted upon initially. Adams is a sophomore. (And you recall Walker and Napier as sophomores, don't you?) Save for Adams no one could ever beat their guy off the dribble. And then he got injured late in the season, with big games approaching. I've written in other threads that I thought Ollie should have instituted a more structured offense rather than the pro-style dribble drive and dish with this group. But I think that became apparent during the season, rather than before the season, once the other two guys who could dribble-drive got injured. That's tough sledding.

Vital was a freshman. He showed it at times, and he shone at times, as freshman do. He's tough and plays hard. But he's a freshman. You conveniently ignored Enoch's defensive limitations and propensity to foul, which kept him from a much bigger role even with the better offensive skills. Great with baby hooks and short jumpers, but at 6'11" he also had some trouble finishing at the hoop. As I wrote, Facey was perhaps the most consistent and reliable performer, but remember that in the first 4-5 games even that wasn't the case. And in the first half yesterday he was 0-8. Is that on Ollie? As for defense, they actually played the zone pretty well, though didn't rebound well out of it. Heck, they didn't rebound much better against strong front lines in the man, either.

The senior class is what they are, and that's why their record is what it is. But they gave their all and played hard, and I like that. I like last years recruit class, and I like next years class. This will build.
 
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I believe what some of this year's issues have boiled down to is the fact that KO seems to run his offense through his more senior players (Purvis, Facey and Brimah). Unfortunately, 2 out of these 3 guys just aren't consistent. If you look back at some of the stats, we haven't had very many games where 2 players on our team have had a good game on the same night (I'm defining "good" as making 50% of your shots and scoring over 15 points). In fact, the biggest reason has been Purvis' poor shooting. He was consistently a 43-44% shooter during his previous 3 years, and this year he has shot 36%. Some of this is likely a result of having to take more shots and be more of a focus of the offense rather than getting his shots in the flow of the offense. When he is on and we get contributions from either Jackson or Vital, we're usually in a good position, but he hasn't been on very much. I think Jalen often defers on the offensive side and that has hurt us a bit as well (the past few weeks he has been hurt so I think he's had to defer even more). I actually think the only chance we have at making a run is having Purvis shoot it well and getting more shots for Vance...I don't think we can rely on Jalen being 100% for the remainder of the year.
 
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Why did so many players miss so many shots?
I know you guys hate bringing up the UC women, but watching their game last night, I couldn't help but wonder....WHY are the women such better shooters than the guys? It boggles my mind to think these guys can't just put the ball in the hoop. That is the most basic of basics, isn't it?
 

pj

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I know you guys hate bringing up the UC women, but watching their game last night, I couldn't help but wonder....WHY are the women such better shooters than the guys? It boggles my mind to think these guys can't just put the ball in the hoop. That is the most basic of basics, isn't it?

Hard to compare with the smaller ball.
 
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It doesn't matter. Without Ollie, UConn basketball is OVER.
I could not disagree with you more... Was North Carolina over when Dean Smith retired? UCLA /Wooden (granted it took a while for them to get back to relevance), Pitino/Kentucky? If we do happen to move on from KO, we'll find another coach who can get the program back to prominence.
 
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Not trying to compare....just wondering how athletes can get to that level and not be able to make the ball go through the cylinder.
 
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I could not disagree with you more... Was North Carolina over when Dean Smith retired? UCLA /Wooden (granted it took a while for them to get back to relevance), Pitino/Kentucky? If we do happen to move on from KO, we'll find another coach who can get the program back to prominence.

UConn in the AAC. Compared to North Carolina in the ACC, UCLA in the Pac012, and Kentucky! And I'm the one being called out?

Wow.
 

HuskyHawk

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Which points. In one paragraph he points out that they were put in a position not to succeed (I'm assuming he was pointing to KO). In another he cites injuries impacting defense. Seems contradictory.

In another he points to stars but his analysis does not discuss positional players. From the newbies I would expect this but he follows football and understands positional players and how missing positional players is key to the overall functioning of the team. The intricacies of following a football team are far more difficult than basketball and yet hawk's analysis with regards to this basketball team are superficial at best.

The only contention I can remotely consider is why did everything seem to go wrong? Why did so many players miss so many shots? But even this point loses validity because players were extremely inconsistent. You'd get good games from different players throughout the season. If KO was in some way unable to motivate his players than you would not have expected games where Vital did well and Jackson disappeared and vice versa.

The inconsistency is more likely something about the players than the coaches and that doesn't necessarily imply the players are anything but human. I'm sure the horrible start to the season caused them to lose confidence in themselves and that the injuries to two starters exacerbated the problem. But even with this explanation I, like @HuskyHawk, cannot believe how so much went so wrong over this season. I just don't buy his razor. That it's on the coaches. Sometimes life deals us blows that are outside our control. I know many people who went through a period of one bad thing happening to them after another and they were blameless for all of it. There is only so much that is under our control whether we like it or not.

I'm not all or nothing. My argument doesn't say "it's all on the coaches". But I absolutely reject the "it's all on the players, these guys are just dumb and can't be coached". Really? The whole group? Even just the seniors? Not probable. Not possible if we're honest. It's a cop out.

So in essence I said that Ollie's use of his roster, especially on offense, and his offensive system is not good. It stinks. In particular, that system is a bad fit for these players, and it's on Ollie to adjust to them, and get the most out of them. That's his job. Did injuries hurt? Of course! But I think they hurt much more on defense, where we lost any real ability to substitute, meaning we couldn't play UConn's defense. That system is good. It's proven. It works.

So we have an ineffective offensive system, which was not very good before the injuries (contributing to two losses to terrible teams and much too close win to a third bad team) and was dreadful after them. We have a very good defensive system and team, but which could only play that level of defense 15-20 minutes a game due to inability to substitute.
 
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Let me give you some AAC related big man problems that UConn is having.

We lost 2 bigs to BE teams over the last couple of years. Both of these kids like Ollie and liked UConn, and UConn was even leading for them, and on them early, but both Omari Spellman and Jesse Govan went to the BE teams that couldn't sniff UConn's jock for 20 years in the BE. And Spellman signed with Nova BEFORE it went on a national championship run. In fact, the last time Spellman saw Nova compete against UConn was when UConn blew Nova out in the tourney 2nd round.

These are AAC style problems that UConn is having.

Govan and Spellman weigh like 260 pounds.
 

ctchamps

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I know you guys hate bringing up the UC women, but watching their game last night, I couldn't help but wonder....WHY are the women such better shooters than the guys? It boggles my mind to think these guys can't just put the ball in the hoop. That is the most basic of basics, isn't it?
And yet Katie Lou was in a slump prior to that game shooting about 30% from three. And some people on the women's forum were getting concerned. So even the best sometimes struggle.
 

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