Not Geno's Best Look (merged thread) | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Not Geno's Best Look (merged thread)

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I probably shouldn't post the article that Deadspin just put out...
 
HopJim said:
Not sure why working to motivate players in a collaborative way means you are giving up control. While coaching styles are different, so are some players and what works best for one may not work for others. If you can motivate you have the ability to manage their performance.
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Uhhhh , motivation needed ? At this skill level ? At this level of competition ?

I am the father of 2 daughters, 1 of which was highly recruited from her freshman year of High School, who got full boat offers (in a non-athletic disciple, and BTW in a field that is significantly more misogynistic than WBB), the other was an athlete, borderline D2, played D3 in 3 sports.

I have seen all manner of bad behavior by coaches and "fans".

I have also seen this played out across an entire set of skill levels.

Geno is 100% spot on about the "new normal".

There will always exist that 1 player who needs no motivation, whose self motivated drive exceeds anything that any coach could provide.

The rest --- they are blessed with extraordinary skills --- but the environment they come from today is SOFT.

And its not the kids --- its the parents and educational environment that produces them.

Daughter #1 also teaches --- believe me, every teacher knows whose kid's parent is a lawyer before day 1 of class. The rules today, fashioned by lawsuits, are extraordinarily restrictive in what you can say or do. And she is very very selective on who she takes on as private students.

The "old schoolers" are a dying breed. And today the recruiting landscape works against them.

This has been escalating for years -- a few years back a local HS here had a coach who won a state championship - she was an excellent coach ---- and was not rehired the following year because parents didnt like who she played and how she spoke --- she was not a "yeller" per se.

I know quite a few guys who would love and are well qualified to coach HS --- none of them think its worth it today --- I mean who wants the crap.
 
Orangutan said:
I probably shouldn't post the article that Deadspin just put out...
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Not even Muffet is spared.

Muffett McGraw, coach of the defending NCAA champion Notre Dame Fighting Irish, said that players now are also “not tolerant” of being treated like shit, which is quite the take:

I think this generation is not tolerant. That’s not a bad thing. But back in the day, coaches could pretty much do anything, say anything. Nobody really complained. Now [players] know better. They’re demanding to be treated better. [But] kids are going to get yelled at. They need to be able to take a little bit of that.​
Both McGraw and Auriemma are clearly upset that coaches can’t treat players however they want anymore, and the idea of being forced to not be balloon knots to people they see as underlings terrifies them. Since that’s obviously a good thing, complaining about having to be nicer to players is an impressive feat of telling on oneself.
 
FanHam said:
I'm liking that this subject has the potential for discussion, however, I want to make it clear I posted this story because it was listed among the "Top Headlines" on the ESPN home page.

Rarely is WCBB the subject of a story listed there, so when I saw "Auriemma: most coaches 'afraid' of their players, I took notice.

I adore Geno. I just wish he'd think before he speaks to someone who is going to publish what he says and spin it in any way they want.

Transparency is the new reality. Everything is open to public scrutiny. Have some sense. His comments make one wonder, "What behavior is he defending? Why is he hostile toward player rights?".
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your first question is exactly the question I have.
 
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UConnCat said:
Not even Muffet is spared.

Muffett McGraw, coach of the defending NCAA champion Notre Dame Fighting Irish, said that players now are also “not tolerant” of being treated like # 2, which is quite the take:

I think this generation is not tolerant. That’s not a bad thing. But back in the day, coaches could pretty much do anything, say anything. Nobody really complained. Now [players] know better. They’re demanding to be treated better. [But] kids are going to get yelled at. They need to be able to take a little bit of that.​
Both McGraw and Auriemma are clearly upset that coaches can’t treat players however they want anymore, and the idea of being forced to not be scalitoholes. to people they see as underlings terrifies them. Since that’s obviously a good thing, complaining about having to be nicer to players is an impressive feat of telling on oneself.
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There are two other contributing factors here too, that I have seen regularly - and this is mostly on the parents --

1. Overestimation of the talent --- sometimes grossly
2. Underestimation of the work required to develop that talent

The best coaches know the talent AND what is required to move to the next level.

Not so good coaches know the talent, but don't have their entire toolbag full to know how to develop it fully.

Bad coaches don't know talent, and think they can just "whip it" up --- these are the guys who think "trying harder" fixes stuff. They have their fans though, who love the rah rah sis boom bah. Love the hard ass stuff, love the emotion, like it can substitute for talent.
 
Glad to see this thread started. Some weeks ago I posted that an episode of the Geno show on SNY, where he was screaming at Squeaky in the middle of a game, made me uncomfortable. If I recall, most of the replies thought it was OK for the coach to do this. Frankly, I thought the harangue was harsh enough to become a meme. So this morning I'm watching the last half hour of the Dan LeBatard & Stugotz show on ESPNU, and lo and behold, these guys actually talked about women's basketball for a segment-- the only time in the several years I've followed it. They were talking about Izzo vs Geno's remarks thereupon. What caught my attention was a remark they all seemed to agree on: that if Geno ranted at one of his players like Izzo he would be out the door in a New York minute. Which suggests to me that they don't watch women's college bball all that religiously -- although stick around for Mike the producer's Dirty Demon spot where he sounds like an indignant Bone Yard fan. I don't use Twitter or Instagram, but someone ought to send the show a link to the SNY episode.

A tape of the show can be found on WatchESPN/ESPN3 if ESPN is part of your cable package. The day's show hangs around for about 24 hours on the site. This morning the show was split between ESPNNEWS with the last half hour on ESPNU, and the segment is in the last half hour, which is posted separately and occurs around 15:08 of the 20 minute recording. (The long recording ends before the last half hour)

Will take a look at Deadspin when I get a chance. Go for the clickbait, stay for the comments.
 
It's not the fault of "the NCAA, athletic directors, or society". Sorry, Geno, but coaches, trainers, teachers, and others have stepped way over the line, as we all know. The number of authority figures who have been caught is probably just the tip of the iceberg. The NCAA and administrators may be having problems distinguishing between loud, profane coaches, and real abusers, but it's become clear that students and athletes(especially young women) need protections to be in place. Anyone who has had first-hand experience with authority figures taking advantage of their positions is a bit more sensitive to these things. Rather than coaches being afraid of athletes, I like to think of it as athletes, students, and others who are no longer afraid speak up. And more strength to them.
 
j66kicker said:
Total sensationalized misrepresentation of what he (and Muffet) said. Garbage and totally in character for Deadspin.
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You will notice that after Geno Auriemma: for some reason there are no quotation marks around what he supposedly said. Imagine that, the author of basically a tabloid article craves attention so much that he makes the actual quotes with context into whatever fits his agenda. Who woulda thunk it?
For the people who practice this type of “journalism” I hope their “gene pool” has a lifeguard.
 
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boontonbomber said:
It's not the fault of "the NCAA, athletic directors, or society". Sorry, Geno, but coaches, trainers, teachers, and others have stepped way over the line, as we all know. The number of authority figures who have been caught is probably just the tip of the iceberg. The NCAA and administrators may be having problems distinguishing between loud, profane coaches, and real abusers, but it's become clear that students and athletes(especially young women) need protections to be in place. Anyone who has had first-hand experience with authority figures taking advantage of their positions is a bit more sensitive to these things. Rather than coaches being afraid of athletes, I like to think of it as athletes, students, and others who are no longer afraid speak up. And more strength to them.
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Geno doesn't really disagree with you. He says in the article that this situation has arisen because "some people have abused the role of a coach." Seems like he gets it, but it's frustrating for those who AREN'T abusers, who are interested in coaching kids up to their best, to figure out how not to cross a line that seems to be shifting.
 
Orangutan said:
Oh, totally. I find it to be entertaining garbage as I find much of Deadspin's writing. But yeah, this is the kind of extreme take that is right in their wheelhouse.
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It's garbage, all right, but at least the guy included a link to the original article. Gotta give him that - although I don't know how many Deadspinners would actually take to time to click on it.
 
It must be so hard to be paid millions of dollars each year and have too be nice to other people.
 
One of the reasons why I retired from the Army after 24 years is because we were getting a younger group of people who didn't like the way things were done, to include the officers. In the early 70's I joined the all volunteer Army just after the ending of the draft. In basic you had the "Old Drill Sergeants" and they ran things like it had been done for generations. About 5 to 8 years after the all volunteer had been in place, the numbers of Senior leaders especially Senior enlisted started to retire because they were not liking what they saw. Some of it was of President Carter with his gutting the military and the other was because the Brass was adjusting to the volunteer Armed services. Then later in early 90's the military was changing because of the people enlisting were more open to complain about Senior leadership (Enlisted mostly) were "mean and didn't listen" and we had junior officers that were part of that group. It used to be that we (Senior Enlisted) told and they (Lower Enlisted) listened. If they didn't then there were consequences, like Article 15's, restrictions to base, or extra duty. When I had to start going into the barracks to "Wake up" the troops, (Babysitting) in lieu of they being out in formation on time on their own, or being told that we have to make sure that the enlisted are NOT yelled at in front of others, that we had to console them in public and criticize them in private, I knew it was time to hang it up.
 
NO attack on the OP here but since when has Geno or the fans worried about his best look? :confused:
Geno being Geno is half the show!!! Anyone catch the scruff this year?
Geno tells it like it is, the day that stops nobody, fans or recruits will believe in him. There is not a thing he said that is not the truth and just something those in our pansy soft society have a hard time with.
As for Muffet taking the diplomatic way out, hogwash. She took the easy way out and that just might cost her down the road. ;)
 
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"We’ve wandered into the ridiculous here, folks. We’re lost. Maybe I’ll sound 81 instead of 41 in stating this, but the 21st century college sports world is a soft one, where a responsibility to teach and a willingness to learn sport and life lessons is compromised by the increasing necessity for an environment of uninhibited comfort.

How sad. It’s almost embarrassing."

Geno started it. Anthony weighs in.

"There’s a difference between abuse and challenge. We’ve come a long way, thankfully, but even today a blurry line exists between pushing to get the most out of a student-athlete and demoralizing or harming one. But what is clear — clear to me, anyway — is that there is room on the right side of that line for a coach to be a relentless, unforgiving presence that has everything to do with love and life prep and winning. "

We're lucky to have him. he knows how to write. More importantly, he knows how to think.

Mike Anthony: Geno Auriemma says coaches are scared of players, Tom Izzo is facing criticism and it’s all embarrassing
 
buddy said:
Geno's look is reflected in the type of player/woman he recruits. No bad actors. Solid citizens. Compare Geno's girls with the ND gang. Muffett will take anyone and their behavior controls her, not the other way around.
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besides Arike, who, over the years, would you include in ND's "gang"?
 
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j66kicker said:
Geno's take was that Izzo's players love him, would go through wall for him, and aren't complaining.
- "Players still love you & come back for more" - OK
- "Players feel abused" - NOT OK

Geno yells, cusses, taunts and publicly criticizes. He has a reputation for "knowing what buttons to push" for each individual player, and he also seems to know the limits for being tough on each player as an individual.

He employs 3 ethnically and age diverse females on his coaching staff who represent 3 different generations (big sister, mother, grandmother?), and each of whom was a high-level/elite WCBB player in her day. These ladies are close to the players (often playing the "good cop"), and I'm sure they give him plenty of feedback if they think he's getting close to the line.

Geno definitely passes the "players still love you" test.
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My company hired Izzo for one of the more interesting talks and Q&A sessions I have heard. His take was that while he hasn't changed his in game style, he has embraced the new normal and relates to his players better than most. He mentioned several times that while this team understands he is the ONLY decision maker, he works with each as an individual and that the evolving motivational needs of today's players help, not hurt, his recruiting and in season success.
 
I'm not sure it's a good idea to generalize about the "soft" cultural climate based on player transfers, which Mike Anthony seems to be doing. We don't generally know why players transfer -- isn't it usually confidential? -- and it seems evident that players don't all transfer for the same reason. Did EDD transfer because she was "soft" or for compassionate reasons? Maybe Destiny Slocum left Maryland because her mother was ill. Was Azure Stevens "soft" because she wanted to develop her playing skills? And playing time: if it's clear you're going to be riding the bench for the duration of your college career and you want to play college basketball, it seems to me it's perfectly acceptable to seek an environment where there is a reasonable chance of playing a lot more , e.g. Ekmark. Conversely -- Stevens again -- you're a starter but you're willing to be on another team because you have a better chance of playing in the national tournament -- isn't this ambition and initiative?

As to "abuse," the definition and scope have evolved. Most cultural changes have positives and negatives. I don't think it's a good idea to see it as one or the other.
 
Considering that the NCAA Men's Basketball tournament wraps up this weekend, The Masters is a week away, the AAF is folding, MLB is just getting into full swing, The Patriots Owner continues to be news, the NFL Pro Days are in full final swing before the Draft, and the NHL is in its final Pre-Stanley-Cup positioning weekend, I am pleased to see Women's college Basketball getting this much attention.
 
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DO NOT CALL PEOPLE DIRTY. It’s middle school caliber name calling. Criticize the play all you want but stop ranting about the ND players being “dirty”. Otherwise, we’ll all be calling others stupid because they made a stupid post. Get it?

No more time outs. The next batch of bans are permanent
 
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