Not Geno's Best Look (merged thread)

[FanHam]

Here's an article from today's espn.com home page by Mechelle Voepel. It's an interview from a conference call with the Final Four coaches. Geno bit on the question, which was about the recent spate of charges/investigations into abuses by coaches in WCBB programs.

The other Final Four coaches saw the train headlight in the tunnel, Geno didn't.

Instead of taking the diplomatic approach, like Muffet, "I think this generation is not tolerant. That's not a bad thing.".

Not old Geno. He had to rant about Tom Izzo being criticized for (I'm not sure what) sideline behavior, and how coaches now have their hands tied and players "can get away with anything".

He seemed to sense the drift of the consensus and did some equivocating, as in "I get we have to keep an eye on things. We don't want people to abuse the system. I get that. I'm all in favor of that."

Auriemma: Most coaches 'afraid' of their players

 

[oldude]

Geno is who he is, and he’s not changing at this point in his life. If you ask him a question he answers it and tells you exactly what he thinks. In a world beset by liars and double-talk, I find Geno to be a breath of fresh air.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Me personally, I thought Geno came off thoughtful and eloquent, and got the point in a way that the others kind of glossed over: whether a coach is a "bad coach" is now dependent on what the players think, so the difference between a coach who went "over the line" and a coach who is "passionate" is simply what the players say.

"People gave [Michigan State men's coach] Tom Izzo a lot of grief for something he did on the sideline," Auriemma said. "His players loved that. He doesn't have to care what you think of it. He just has to care what his players think of it. If his players all transferred, if his players all quit on him, then he went over the line. If his players play really hard for him, they keep winning, they love him, they keep coming back to the program, then that's passion."

Geno's point is that it has become subjective and entirely dependent on the players. The coach no longer has the authority - the players do. Look what happened at Tennessee. Now I do think Holly Warlick needed to go, but man, Evina Westbrook says something about "staff changes need to happen," and less than a week later, Holly is out. What message will that send to the next coach? You're one player revolt away from getting canned.

A similar conversation about Geno's remarks has been going on in the transfers thread, and several involved in teaching have remarked similar experiences, that the channels of authority have now reversed: the teacher is afraid of the students complaining and getting him fired, so the teacher has to mollify the students.

This is a real phenomenon, and one that I think is troubling. Young people are no longer deferential to authority figures, are increasingly convinced they are right, and expect to have their views parroted back at them. They don't want to be challenged, they don't want to be pushed, and they don't want to face consequences for their actions from above. Young people no longer have to "stick it out" or "fight through adversity." They complain, they rebel, they transfer. There's precious little personal accountability.

Personally, I think this "look" is exactly what I love about Geno, precisely why I'm a big UConn Huskies fan even though I went to Stanford, and much of why I think Geno produces player (and All-American) after player (and All-American) who's humble, driven, ethical, hold themselves accountable and let their actions speak for themselves.

 

[UConnNick]

Why does Geno's opinion about something have to match some arbitrary consensus among other coaches? He's got his own opinion, they've got theirs. I see nothing wrong with his remarks.

 

[FanHam]

I'm liking that this subject has the potential for discussion, however, I want to make it clear I posted this story because it was listed among the "Top Headlines" on the ESPN home page.

Rarely is WCBB the subject of a story listed there, so when I saw "Auriemma: most coaches 'afraid' of their players, I took notice.

I adore Geno. I just wish he'd think before he speaks to someone who is going to publish what he says and spin it in any way they want.

Transparency is the new reality. Everything is open to public scrutiny. Have some sense. His comments make one wonder, "What behavior is he defending? Why is he hostile toward player rights?".

 

[iri10]

It's obvious from the comments he's made over the last 5 years or so (Geno show, etc.) that he's felt this way for a while. He stated it more bluntly than he usually does here, but I suppose there's more context for that than usual, with the recent coaching controversies in WCBB.

To his credit, he did acknowledge that not all the coaches were innocent earlier in the discussion than the OP mentioned:

"Coaches, they have to coach with one hand behind their back. Why? Because some people have abused the role of a coach."

 

[FanHam]

It's obvious from the comments he's made over the last 5 years or so (Geno show, etc.) that he's felt this way for a while. He stated it more bluntly than he usually does here, but I suppose there's more context for that than usual, with the recent coaching controversies in WCBB.

To his credit, he did acknowledge that not all the coaches were innocent earlier in the discussion than the OP mentioned:

"Coaches, they have to coach with one hand behind their back. Why? Because some people have abused the role of a coach."

that's when he started to equivocate. He even says, "We don't want people to abuse the system. I get that. I'm all in favor of that."

But he couldn't unsay what he said earlier.

 

[phil sampieri]

that's when he started to equivocate. He even says, "We don't want people to abuse the system. I get that. I'm all in favor of that."

But he couldn't unsay what he said earlier.

I'm liking that this subject has the potential for discussion, however, I want to make it clear I posted this story because it was listed among the "Top Headlines" on the ESPN home page.

Rarely is WCBB the subject of a story listed there, so when I saw "Auriemma: most coaches 'afraid' of their players, I took notice.

I adore Geno. I just wish he'd think before he speaks to someone who is going to publish what he says and spin it in any way they want.

Transparency is the new reality. Everything is open to public scrutiny. Have some sense. His comments make one wonder, "What behavior is he defending? Why is he hostile toward player rights?".

Cmon folks, I am the father of five with 15 grandchildren who I love,love but if you close your eyes to the new era of entitlement you had better prepare for the consequences.

 

[Twolf]

Here's an article from today's espn.com home page by Mechelle Voepel. It's an interview from a conference call with the Final Four coaches. Geno bit on the question, which was about the recent spate of charges/investigations into abuses by coaches in WCBB programs.

The other Final Four coaches saw the train headlight in the tunnel, Geno didn't.

Instead of taking the diplomatic approach, like Muffet, "I think this generation is not tolerant. That's not a bad thing.".

Not old Geno. He had to rant about Tom Izzo being criticized for (I'm not sure what) sideline behavior, and how coaches now have their hands tied and players "can get away with anything".

He seemed to sense the drift of the consensus and did some equivocating, as in "I get we have to keep an eye on things. We don't want people to abuse the system. I get that. I'm all in favor of that."

Geno has looked better.

Auriemma: Most coaches 'afraid' of their players

I respect your take on the article, but I didn’t interpret Geno’s remarks on Izzo as a rant, as much as an observation on the current state of college sports, and of society as a whole. Your take does expose the reason that programs with coaches like Geno or Tom Izzo have a smaller pool of athletes to recruit from, who have the combination of natural ability, desire to be challenged to reach their absolute best, and a work ethic that will allow that to happen. There is also a smaller pool of parents who want their child to face the challenges of a program like these two run, and want them to actually be “coached up”. Their idea is to have them managed through their career, and allowed to display their natural creativity.

Each to their own, but in sports you are where you are as a player, coach, or program for a reason, and talent is never enough to make you you consistently successful for any of those three. You can question methods, lack of political correctness, or personalities, but there is a reason both of these coaches have a team in the Final Four, and their programs have a long term track record of excellence. The changes in society are definitely going to make their styles of coaching a challenge to continued success, but IMHO if either of the two have to compromise their core beliefs about what coaching really is, they will ride off into the sunset and not look back, satisfied with what they were able to build and accomplish.

 

[oldude]

I’m certain that I’m not the only one that has noticed a marked change in Geno’s public comments about his players this season. After last year, when he made a number of caustic remarks about his freshmen and particularly AEH, Geno has been far more complementary of his team. What little public criticism he does extend is almost serene in nature. “For someone who hates to practice, Liv played really well today.”

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Me personally, I thought Geno came off thoughtful and eloquent, and got the point in a way that the others kind of glossed over: whether a coach is a "bad coach" is now dependent on what the players think, so the difference between a coach who went "over the line" and a coach who is "passionate" is simply what the players say.



Geno's point is that it has become subjective and entirely dependent on the players. The coach no longer has the authority - the players do. Look what happened at Tennessee. Now I do think Holly Warlick needed to go, but man, Evina Westbrook says something about "staff changes need to happen," and less than a week later, Holly is out. What message will that send to the next coach? You're one player revolt away from getting canned.

A similar conversation about Geno's remarks has been going on in the transfers thread, and several involved in teaching have remarked similar experiences, that the channels of authority have now reversed: the teacher is afraid of the students complaining and getting him fired, so the teacher has to mollify the students.

This is a real phenomenon, and one that I think is troubling. Young people are no longer deferential to authority figures, are increasingly convinced they are right, and expect to have their views parroted back at them. They don't want to be challenged, they don't want to be pushed, and they don't want to face consequences for their actions from above. Young people no longer have to "stick it out" or "fight through adversity." They complain, they rebel, they transfer. There's precious little personal accountability.

Personally, I think this "look" is exactly what I love about Geno, precisely why I'm a big UConn Huskies fan even though I went to Stanford, and much of why I think Geno produces player (and All-American) after player (and All-American) who's humble, driven, ethical, hold themselves accountable and let their actions speak for themselves.

Yes, you and I agree that @FanHam read a different article than the one we read. Geno was trying to be real and express nuances of coaching and the difficulty of working with young people today. He's all but said on occasion that it is the changes in kids that will one day have him hang it up. The other 3 pretty much ducked for cover.

 

[meyers7]

I thought it was a pretty good look.

 

[terif831]

I don't see anything wrong with what he said. He was honest, and Voepel says he acknowledged the changing culture, along with the other three.

And I certainly don't think it's clear that he "did some equivocating" after "sensing the drift of the consensus." Looks to me like Voepel organized her reporting of what was said by topic, not by order in which it was said.

 

[huskeynut]

This entitlement by students, encouraged by their parents in many cases, has been coming for a while. It was there when I was teaching and I retired 10 years ago.

Geno's comments are accurate and on point.

 

[Bama fan]

Me personally, I thought Geno came off thoughtful and eloquent, and got the point in a way that the others kind of glossed over: whether a coach is a "bad coach" is now dependent on what the players think, so the difference between a coach who went "over the line" and a coach who is "passionate" is simply what the players say.



Geno's point is that it has become subjective and entirely dependent on the players. The coach no longer has the authority - the players do. Look what happened at Tennessee. Now I do think Holly Warlick needed to go, but man, Evina Westbrook says something about "staff changes need to happen," and less than a week later, Holly is out. What message will that send to the next coach? You're one player revolt away from getting canned.

A similar conversation about Geno's remarks has been going on in the transfers thread, and several involved in teaching have remarked similar experiences, that the channels of authority have now reversed: the teacher is afraid of the students complaining and getting him fired, so the teacher has to mollify the students.

This is a real phenomenon, and one that I think is troubling. Young people are no longer deferential to authority figures, are increasingly convinced they are right, and expect to have their views parroted back at them. They don't want to be challenged, they don't want to be pushed, and they don't want to face consequences for their actions from above. Young people no longer have to "stick it out" or "fight through adversity." They complain, they rebel, they transfer. There's precious little personal accountability.

Personally, I think this "look" is exactly what I love about Geno, precisely why I'm a big UConn Huskies fan even though I went to Stanford, and much of why I think Geno produces player (and All-American) after player (and All-American) who's humble, driven, ethical, hold themselves accountable and let their actions speak for themselves.

I agree with much of what you convey here. And I compliment you on your excellent word choices. This is the second time in a week where I have heard someone use the word mollify in the correct context. Ms Stacey Abrams , who is a gifted and eloquent public speaker, used it in an interview I saw on television. It is a fine word, and I am pleased to see it used well. A lagniappe of a surprise in a conversation about basketball. Thanks.

 

[Geew1992]

I had a parent from my daughter's college basketball team tell me he didn't really like the coach. Why you ask?? He yelled at the girls. I looked at him like he had 3 heads. I don't remember a time when my daughter wasn't get yelled at. Maybe when she was 9. Soft i tell you. Just soft!

 

[Bama fan]

Here's an article from today's espn.com home page by Mechelle Voepel. It's an interview from a conference call with the Final Four coaches. Geno bit on the question, which was about the recent spate of charges/investigations into abuses by coaches in WCBB programs.

The other Final Four coaches saw the train headlight in the tunnel, Geno didn't.

Instead of taking the diplomatic approach, like Muffet, "I think this generation is not tolerant. That's not a bad thing.".

Not old Geno. He had to rant about Tom Izzo being criticized for (I'm not sure what) sideline behavior, and how coaches now have their hands tied and players "can get away with anything".

He seemed to sense the drift of the consensus and did some equivocating, as in "I get we have to keep an eye on things. We don't want people to abuse the system. I get that. I'm all in favor of that."

Auriemma: Most coaches 'afraid' of their players

As with most "interviews" that are reported out, but not heard in their full context, it is difficult to get an accurate depiction. While you draw the conclusion which you have drawn, I do not quite read it that way. I do not see Geno equivocate. And the reporter /interviewer seems to have arranged her retelling in such a way as to pique interest rather than to simply regurgitate the coaches' comments. This is standard fare in reporting, and I do not fault her for it. But it colors the dialogue in ways that we cannot verify.
I would like to have heard the full interview as it was recorded.

 

[msf22b]

Geno's point is that it has become subjective and entirely dependent on the players. The coach no longer has the authority - the players do. Look what happened at Tennessee. Now I do think Holly Warlick needed to go, but man, Evina Westbrook says something about "staff changes need to happen," and less than a week later, Holly is out. What message will that send to the next coach? You're one player revolt away from getting canned.
FarmFan

I don't remember much from my logic class 50+ years ago but I'm sure that this statement would be considered a fallacious argument.

It is highly unlikely that we have cause and effect here...there are a myriad of reasons that Holly got canned... let me innumerate a few:

Inept, repetitive, unknowledgeable, ignorant press conferences after losses...

A propensity for breaking negative records; conference losses, # of games won per season.

Losses to lower ranked teams...losing streaks

Even to the complete laymen: the absence of any coherent structure (especially on offense).
But on D, the absence of help D rendering their sometimes effective press, useless when broken.

Attendance (and probably financial support) dropping like a stone.

Absence of success in the NCAA's...and yes, an apparent player revolt.

These are just a few reasons that come to mind...Elvina's (seemingly) cry for help from the admin is just as likely the result as the team having been told..."don't bolt just yet....we're going to fix this thing."

Yes, it's not good for the inmates to be running the asylum; but in this case, the player merely articulated the breadth of the disaster, that anyone could see with their naked eye.

 

[HopJim]

Not sure why working to motivate players in a collaborative way means you are giving up control. While coaching styles are different, so are some players and what works best for one may not work for others. If you can motivate you have the ability to manage their performance.

 

[pspr11]

What you see is what you get. Geno speaking his mind. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[hussybulldog]

[QUOTE="TheFarmFan, post: 3111051, member:]Look what happened at Tennessee. Now I do think Holly Warlick needed to go, but man, Evina Westbrook says something about "staff changes need to happen," and less than a week later, Holly is out. What message will that send to the next coach? You're one player revolt away from getting canned..[/QUOTE]
I would give the player the benefit of the doubt in this case. One can be sure that she was not the only player that shared that view. Holly is lack of coaching or/and leadership skills obviously and players are not signed up for this. If Westbrook were the only player who feels that way, she would have simply asked for a transfer and she would know better that she would get canned instead of Holly.

 

[Orangutan]

It is highly unlikely that we have cause and effect here...there are a myriad of reasons that Holly got canned... let me innumerate a few:

Yep. Let's be clear - that ship was already sinking. Evina just said "Hey, we're taking on water over here!"

 

[Bama fan]

Yep. Let's be clear - that ship was already sinking. Evina just said "Hey, we're taking on water over here!"

As per your nautical analogy, it occurred to me that the whole thing would have played better at the other Tennessee school.

 

[ABCDFE]

Everyone respects Geno even if they don't like him because he is authentic and says things other coaches won't. I have no problems with what he said. The majority of coaches agree with him, I guarantee you that...

 

[j66kicker]

Geno's take was that Izzo's players love him, would go through wall for him, and aren't complaining.
- "Players still love you & come back for more" - OK
- "Players feel abused" - NOT OK

Geno yells, cusses, taunts and publicly criticizes. He has a reputation for "knowing what buttons to push" for each individual player, and he also seems to know the limits for being tough on each player as an individual.

He employs 3 ethnically and age diverse females on his coaching staff who represent 3 different generations (big sister, mother, grandmother?), and each of whom was a high-level/elite WCBB player in her day. These ladies are close to the players (often playing the "good cop"), and I'm sure they give him plenty of feedback if they think he's getting close to the line.

Geno definitely passes the "players still love you" test.