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- Thread starter The Viking
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Putting aside the gossip, my own included, the one false fact here is the 'rumored' value of any future XII (or any other conference) TV contract. Right now no one has a clue what the next media contracts will be with all of the moving parts and the media's changing landscape. Heck, the next media contract could be a fight between Apple, Amazon, and Netflix instead of Fox, NBS and ABC/ESPN. Who knows.
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Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Sports Biz Daily had an article on possible future expansion. It was all conjecture except this quote:
“My sense is that nobody wants to upset the applecart this time around,” one executive said.”
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
What that means is simple. ESPN and Fox want the Big 12 intact. They will pay to keep the conf at 10 or allow Arizona & Arizona State move over. Increases money for both B12 & P12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
No expansion happens without the blessing of TV partners. Both ESPN & Fox have made it clear that they will not pay for or sanction the SEC or B1G approaching UT or OU.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
The Sports Biz Daily story also referenced diminishing returns for expansion. That means if the B1G or SEC would add any B1G school that everyone in the conference would see their share decrease. Profits are so high now that only UT or ND would produce a ROI.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
So the next time some yahoo claims a B1G exec told him that the B1G will target OU or UT remember the people who pay for expansion do not want either to leave the Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
The days of cable carriage fees paying for expansion are over.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
One caveat to this expansion stuff... I understand SEC would take OU and ESPN wants WVU in the ACC. There’s a slim chance the B12 adds the Arizona schools & WVU leaves for the ACC while Baylor gets dropped. OU doesn’t have much interest in SEC unless Texas does something stupid
Billy @TxBornSooner 5h5 hours ago
Why Would OU stay in the Texas League if they could Leave?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @TxBornSooner
Money. Playoffs, big dog in conference with much sway. You want less money?
Billy @TxBornSooner 5h5 hours ago
They would have Money anywhere. They are a Big draw. The power is a big deal. But it cant be harder to win the Pac than the Big12
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Look at the P12. OU complains about 11 am kickoffs.
Billy @TxBornSooner 5h5 hours ago
11am kickoffs every week when youre in CST trying to recruit West Coast kids is a pain. 11am PST is cool. Its 2 hrs later. 3 for East coast kids.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Try 9 am kickoffs. Think coverage maps & timezones.
samnite @Novasheikh 5h5 hours ago
Has the ACC reconsidered its anti-WVU stance? I thought WVU's academics were a deal breaker last go around
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @Novasheikh
That was before the UNC scandal, adding Louisville & the fact that WVU’s existing rivalries with a host of ACC schools is one way ESPN can justify paying so much for ACCN.
JayBirdLewis @WestBGVirginian 3h3 hours ago
ESPN wasn’t in favor of WVU to ACC the first go round. I’m curious as to your take on what has changed since.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Yes they were. It was UNC & Duke that blocked WVU. ESPN thought that WVU & Pitt going to the ACC would have killed the Big East. ESPN is the primary reason why WVU is in the Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @Novasheikh
Plus since then WVU has achieved top tier research status & Jim Clements became Prez at Clemson.
samnite @Novasheikh 4h4 hours ago
So you think they push for ND and WVU to become the 15th and 16th all-sports members?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
ND is key. The fact ND made the playoffs hurts WVU, but the money ESPN would make with WVU in the ACC is undeniable.
samnite @Novasheikh 4h4 hours ago
ND made it but had to go undefeated. I don't think that will be sustainable long term for them with their schedule especially with no CCG bump available. Maybe ND becomes more receptive to joining fulltime by the time expansion comes up again.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
ND will refuse because it benefits WVU. Hopefully ACCN struggles early and ESPN gets nervous and makes ACC go to 15.
samnite @Novasheikh 4h4 hours ago
You mean make the ACC add WVU before convincing ND to become an all-sports 16th member?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Just my wishful thinking.
samnite @Novasheikh 3h3 hours ago
I thought you said ESPN wanted to keep the B12 intact though. Wouldn't pushing WVU to the ACC destabilize the B12 too much?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Nope. The Big 12 is OU & UT. Don’t get me wrong the B12 has been good to WVU & its been mutually beneficial but WVU in the ACC means resumption of old BE rivalries & matchups with regional foes that translates into ratings & butts in seats.
OU Boom!!! @asbell_tony 5h5 hours ago
AZ and ASU will never move to the Big12. Never.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Why do you think that?
OU Boom!!! @asbell_tony 5h5 hours ago
They identify w the PAC. I live in AZ. Not a single ASU or UA fan that I know would accept such a move. They don’t want to travel to the Midwest for away games. PAC has higher academic standards and more athletic sports. Won’t happen. They would revolt.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @asbell_tony
I suggest you look at Maryland. Both Arz schools are upset with the P12. P12N is a bust & they get treated like red-headed step children.
OU Boom!!! @asbell_tony 4h4 hours ago
I suggest you interact w their fans and boosters.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Ask Maryland’s alums, fans & boosters how they felt leaving the ACC.
OU Boom!!! @asbell_tony 4h4 hours ago
Irrelevant
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
How is it irrelevant? UM’s base didnt want to leave the ACC either.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
You don’t know who will pay for expansion. 2023 will be a much different environment than right now with
. In fact, expansion could leverage BTN into a rival network for all college sports programming and FOX owns half. Takes half the financial risk instead of all like ESPN
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Except ESPN owns UT’s rights until 2035.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
Look at Oklahoma’s noncon schedules if you want to see the B10 tie. Playing Nebraska 4 times, Michigan twice and OSU twice in the next 10 years
Doug @NebGradDubDub 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
OU improves ROI with OK City/Dallas area and annual games with Texas and Nebraska
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub
No. Thats not true. There’s not enough cable subscribers in OK to justify adding the Sooners without network approval.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 4h4 hours ago
OU like Nebraska is a national brand that always brings in good ratings.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub
And OU isnt in Texas. Regional coverage maps means the conf with a team in the market gets on TV there unless its a national broadcast.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 4h4 hours ago
BTN is always a national broadcast, FYI
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub
Thats not how it works.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub
The math says the market share has to justify the outlay of money. The math says expansion is no longer economically feasable.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 3h3 hours ago
Oklahoma is economically feasible.............that's the absolute truth. In a divisionless league it's even more true. Especially if you can buy two teams for less money than paying out the rear end for the other 6 that have no value and 2 whose only value is expansion content
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago
Think about it. If the networks are against expansion & Oklahoma lacks enough cable subscribers to justify it what is the ROI?
Coliseum PRT Station @PrtStation 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
Nobody wants to upset the apple cart but.. There is always one guy that says to himself “I’ll just take this one apple, it’s only one, it won’t matter” Next thing you know it’s a great big ol’ apple riot and flying everywhere. I just hope the cart doesn’t land on our nuts
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @PrtStation
Except contracts are already so expensive they are shared.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @PrtStation
The networks want the B12 to exist because if it fails it means they will end up paying NFL like rights fees in the future. They will pay more for less inventory forcing them to pay more for less desirable inventory.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
The networks want the B12 to exist because if it fails it means they will end up paying NFL like rights fees in the future. They will pay more for less inventory forcing them to pay more for less desirable inventory.
The Real Bob Mayhew @HabibHaddad 4h4 hours ago
Arizona and Arizona State to the Big 12 makes sense. Then the PAC 12 can go back to the PAC 10 and the Big 12 can actually have 12 members. Brilliant!
Doug @NebGradDubDub 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @HabibHaddad @theDudeofWV
Having spent plenty of time in Arizona I can assure that the cultural fit is with the P12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago
Cultural fit? BC, Pitt & Cuse in the ACC? Nebraska & Maryland in the B1G. I would say that WVU is a better fit in the Big 12 than any of those.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 1h1 hour ago
Nebraska is a cultural fit to the B10. It was not to the southern B12. Nebraska, iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Illinois is corn and soybean country. What's left of the B12 is not.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago
ACC needs WVU more than WVU needs the ACC.
T @Rifleman4WVU 2h2 hours ago
Yea, not buying that one.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @Rifleman4WVU @MartinisNCognac @HabibHaddad
The game changed with ESPN giving in to the ACCN. The ACC has a problem. Three schools account for 95% of football ratings. 8 (or 9 private schools) with demographics trending to alumni who dont care about football unlikely to care about ACCN.
Dtzak @dtzak 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
Fox wants Texas/OU in B1G, to swing their clout in ESPNs face. ESPN is failing badly right now.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Really? You know this how? Have you bothered to check TV ratings?
Dtzak @dtzak 1h1 hour ago
When you spend too much on NBA, NFL, MLB, SEC,...then low ball other CFB conferences....karma
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 58m58 minutes ago
My friend ESPN is better positioned to withstand changing viewing habits than Fox. ABC/ESPN has more reach commanding more money than Fox & its fledgling FS1 & FS2. It has the exclusive rights to SECN & the SEC giving it ownership of the vast majority of markets that watch.
Dtzak @dtzak 56m56 minutes ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
Really? Is that why they are back to showing cornhole tournaments and more poker events? Is that why they are shedding on air talent? Disney would love to unload ESPN.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @dtzak
There is no way UT can go to the B1G as ESPN owns an option on all of UT’s rights until 2035.
Dtzak @dtzak 1h1 hour ago
It's happening. The Longhorn network is failing, ESPN would be foolish to not listen to exit plans.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Your data is as flawed as your understanding.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @dtzak
Plus if the B12 fails the networks will eventually be forced to pay more $ for less content and at the same time be forced to pay more for content that less valuable to fill the gap.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @dtzak
Networks are publicly traded corporations legally required to return as much profit as possible to investors. They are not charities handing out free money. And ESPN in turn is owned by Disney which has the fiduciary responsibility to return profits to its investors.
Dtzak @dtzak 1h1 hour ago
ESPN is hemoraging money. Fox wants the knockout.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @dtzak
Really? ESPN made a profit. Whereas Fox is selling off its regional networks. ESPN had a $2.4 billion profit. The entire Fox entertainment enterprise $894M profit.
Sports Biz Daily had an article on possible future expansion. It was all conjecture except this quote:
“My sense is that nobody wants to upset the applecart this time around,” one executive said.”
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
What that means is simple. ESPN and Fox want the Big 12 intact. They will pay to keep the conf at 10 or allow Arizona & Arizona State move over. Increases money for both B12 & P12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
No expansion happens without the blessing of TV partners. Both ESPN & Fox have made it clear that they will not pay for or sanction the SEC or B1G approaching UT or OU.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
The Sports Biz Daily story also referenced diminishing returns for expansion. That means if the B1G or SEC would add any B1G school that everyone in the conference would see their share decrease. Profits are so high now that only UT or ND would produce a ROI.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
So the next time some yahoo claims a B1G exec told him that the B1G will target OU or UT remember the people who pay for expansion do not want either to leave the Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
The days of cable carriage fees paying for expansion are over.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
One caveat to this expansion stuff... I understand SEC would take OU and ESPN wants WVU in the ACC. There’s a slim chance the B12 adds the Arizona schools & WVU leaves for the ACC while Baylor gets dropped. OU doesn’t have much interest in SEC unless Texas does something stupid
Billy @TxBornSooner 5h5 hours ago
Why Would OU stay in the Texas League if they could Leave?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @TxBornSooner
Money. Playoffs, big dog in conference with much sway. You want less money?
Billy @TxBornSooner 5h5 hours ago
They would have Money anywhere. They are a Big draw. The power is a big deal. But it cant be harder to win the Pac than the Big12
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Look at the P12. OU complains about 11 am kickoffs.
Billy @TxBornSooner 5h5 hours ago
11am kickoffs every week when youre in CST trying to recruit West Coast kids is a pain. 11am PST is cool. Its 2 hrs later. 3 for East coast kids.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Try 9 am kickoffs. Think coverage maps & timezones.
samnite @Novasheikh 5h5 hours ago
Has the ACC reconsidered its anti-WVU stance? I thought WVU's academics were a deal breaker last go around
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @Novasheikh
That was before the UNC scandal, adding Louisville & the fact that WVU’s existing rivalries with a host of ACC schools is one way ESPN can justify paying so much for ACCN.
JayBirdLewis @WestBGVirginian 3h3 hours ago
ESPN wasn’t in favor of WVU to ACC the first go round. I’m curious as to your take on what has changed since.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Yes they were. It was UNC & Duke that blocked WVU. ESPN thought that WVU & Pitt going to the ACC would have killed the Big East. ESPN is the primary reason why WVU is in the Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @Novasheikh
Plus since then WVU has achieved top tier research status & Jim Clements became Prez at Clemson.
samnite @Novasheikh 4h4 hours ago
So you think they push for ND and WVU to become the 15th and 16th all-sports members?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
ND is key. The fact ND made the playoffs hurts WVU, but the money ESPN would make with WVU in the ACC is undeniable.
samnite @Novasheikh 4h4 hours ago
ND made it but had to go undefeated. I don't think that will be sustainable long term for them with their schedule especially with no CCG bump available. Maybe ND becomes more receptive to joining fulltime by the time expansion comes up again.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
ND will refuse because it benefits WVU. Hopefully ACCN struggles early and ESPN gets nervous and makes ACC go to 15.
samnite @Novasheikh 4h4 hours ago
You mean make the ACC add WVU before convincing ND to become an all-sports 16th member?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Just my wishful thinking.
samnite @Novasheikh 3h3 hours ago
I thought you said ESPN wanted to keep the B12 intact though. Wouldn't pushing WVU to the ACC destabilize the B12 too much?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Nope. The Big 12 is OU & UT. Don’t get me wrong the B12 has been good to WVU & its been mutually beneficial but WVU in the ACC means resumption of old BE rivalries & matchups with regional foes that translates into ratings & butts in seats.
OU Boom!!! @asbell_tony 5h5 hours ago
AZ and ASU will never move to the Big12. Never.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Why do you think that?
OU Boom!!! @asbell_tony 5h5 hours ago
They identify w the PAC. I live in AZ. Not a single ASU or UA fan that I know would accept such a move. They don’t want to travel to the Midwest for away games. PAC has higher academic standards and more athletic sports. Won’t happen. They would revolt.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @asbell_tony
I suggest you look at Maryland. Both Arz schools are upset with the P12. P12N is a bust & they get treated like red-headed step children.
OU Boom!!! @asbell_tony 4h4 hours ago
I suggest you interact w their fans and boosters.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Ask Maryland’s alums, fans & boosters how they felt leaving the ACC.
OU Boom!!! @asbell_tony 4h4 hours ago
Irrelevant
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
How is it irrelevant? UM’s base didnt want to leave the ACC either.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
You don’t know who will pay for expansion. 2023 will be a much different environment than right now with
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Except ESPN owns UT’s rights until 2035.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
Look at Oklahoma’s noncon schedules if you want to see the B10 tie. Playing Nebraska 4 times, Michigan twice and OSU twice in the next 10 years
Doug @NebGradDubDub 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
OU improves ROI with OK City/Dallas area and annual games with Texas and Nebraska
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub
No. Thats not true. There’s not enough cable subscribers in OK to justify adding the Sooners without network approval.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 4h4 hours ago
OU like Nebraska is a national brand that always brings in good ratings.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub
And OU isnt in Texas. Regional coverage maps means the conf with a team in the market gets on TV there unless its a national broadcast.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 4h4 hours ago
BTN is always a national broadcast, FYI
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub
Thats not how it works.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub
The math says the market share has to justify the outlay of money. The math says expansion is no longer economically feasable.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 3h3 hours ago
Oklahoma is economically feasible.............that's the absolute truth. In a divisionless league it's even more true. Especially if you can buy two teams for less money than paying out the rear end for the other 6 that have no value and 2 whose only value is expansion content
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago
Think about it. If the networks are against expansion & Oklahoma lacks enough cable subscribers to justify it what is the ROI?
Coliseum PRT Station @PrtStation 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
Nobody wants to upset the apple cart but.. There is always one guy that says to himself “I’ll just take this one apple, it’s only one, it won’t matter” Next thing you know it’s a great big ol’ apple riot and flying everywhere. I just hope the cart doesn’t land on our nuts
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @PrtStation
Except contracts are already so expensive they are shared.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @PrtStation
The networks want the B12 to exist because if it fails it means they will end up paying NFL like rights fees in the future. They will pay more for less inventory forcing them to pay more for less desirable inventory.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
The networks want the B12 to exist because if it fails it means they will end up paying NFL like rights fees in the future. They will pay more for less inventory forcing them to pay more for less desirable inventory.
The Real Bob Mayhew @HabibHaddad 4h4 hours ago
Arizona and Arizona State to the Big 12 makes sense. Then the PAC 12 can go back to the PAC 10 and the Big 12 can actually have 12 members. Brilliant!
Doug @NebGradDubDub 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @HabibHaddad @theDudeofWV
Having spent plenty of time in Arizona I can assure that the cultural fit is with the P12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago
Cultural fit? BC, Pitt & Cuse in the ACC? Nebraska & Maryland in the B1G. I would say that WVU is a better fit in the Big 12 than any of those.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 1h1 hour ago
Nebraska is a cultural fit to the B10. It was not to the southern B12. Nebraska, iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Illinois is corn and soybean country. What's left of the B12 is not.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago
ACC needs WVU more than WVU needs the ACC.
T @Rifleman4WVU 2h2 hours ago
Yea, not buying that one.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @Rifleman4WVU @MartinisNCognac @HabibHaddad
The game changed with ESPN giving in to the ACCN. The ACC has a problem. Three schools account for 95% of football ratings. 8 (or 9 private schools) with demographics trending to alumni who dont care about football unlikely to care about ACCN.
Dtzak @dtzak 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
Fox wants Texas/OU in B1G, to swing their clout in ESPNs face. ESPN is failing badly right now.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Really? You know this how? Have you bothered to check TV ratings?
Dtzak @dtzak 1h1 hour ago
When you spend too much on NBA, NFL, MLB, SEC,...then low ball other CFB conferences....karma
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 58m58 minutes ago
My friend ESPN is better positioned to withstand changing viewing habits than Fox. ABC/ESPN has more reach commanding more money than Fox & its fledgling FS1 & FS2. It has the exclusive rights to SECN & the SEC giving it ownership of the vast majority of markets that watch.
Dtzak @dtzak 56m56 minutes ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
Really? Is that why they are back to showing cornhole tournaments and more poker events? Is that why they are shedding on air talent? Disney would love to unload ESPN.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @dtzak
There is no way UT can go to the B1G as ESPN owns an option on all of UT’s rights until 2035.
Dtzak @dtzak 1h1 hour ago
It's happening. The Longhorn network is failing, ESPN would be foolish to not listen to exit plans.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Your data is as flawed as your understanding.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @dtzak
Plus if the B12 fails the networks will eventually be forced to pay more $ for less content and at the same time be forced to pay more for content that less valuable to fill the gap.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @dtzak
Networks are publicly traded corporations legally required to return as much profit as possible to investors. They are not charities handing out free money. And ESPN in turn is owned by Disney which has the fiduciary responsibility to return profits to its investors.
Dtzak @dtzak 1h1 hour ago
ESPN is hemoraging money. Fox wants the knockout.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 1h1 hour ago
Replying to @dtzak
Really? ESPN made a profit. Whereas Fox is selling off its regional networks. ESPN had a $2.4 billion profit. The entire Fox entertainment enterprise $894M profit.
Hence non-key
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2014
- Messages
- 1,427
- Reaction Score
- 1,848
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 11h11 hours ago
I would like to know how many years AAC Commish Aresco is asking for in the GOR? If I was Houston, Cincinnati, UCF or USF I would not sign anything that takes be further than 2025. For UCONN it gets complicated with Big East possibilities for MBB/WBB.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 11h11 hours ago
Some people are not going to like this tweet. Aresco’s attempt to get AAC schools to sign GOR in return for those particular schools to receive bit more $ is more about giving Aresco more leverage to deal with Big 12 as a whole if/when Big 12 gets poached than its about B12 Exp.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 11h11 hours ago
People are talking. Gaining Leverage is everything. Aresco trying to establish future stability. Bowlsby and 5-6 other Big 12 schools will be doing the same shortly..requesting future stability from OU/UT. Hang on. Bumpy ride ahead.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 10h10 hours ago
Frank the Tank Retweeted Pat Forde
AAC trying to seek a grant of rights agreement is a classic prisoner’s dilemma scenario. Individual schools have an interest in not accepting it even though the league overall would benefit from everyone cooperating.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 5h5 hours ago
Frank the Tank Retweeted Joe Ho Ho Hovies
Key part of the AAC grant of rights story: there would be unequal revenue sharing in favor of UCF, USF, Cincinnati, Memphis and Houston since they are the most likely Power 5 expansion targets. (Note that UConn isn't on that list, which is probably why there's Big East talk.)
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 5h5 hours ago
Greg Flugaur Retweeted John Ourand
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ourand_SBJ/status/1072208578252034048 …
FS1 overtakes ESPN2
As BTM told us 9 days ago FOX Sports is extremely happy with Big Ten Content.
You should expect ruthless aggression.#marksilverman
Doug @NebGradDubDub 3h3 hours ago
Happens the same year the B10 content comes on board. Not shocking
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub
It took 2 years..but yes.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 5h5 hours ago
Oooh boy...
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
I don’t see Danny White signing any GOR with the American Athletic Conference. No UCF, no AAC GOR. Take a little less Conference Media $ than it highest potential earnings (GOR inclusion) in exchange to keep it’s options (keep freedom) open is the prudent move for UCF.
Erich Keithly @ekeithly_1 3h3 hours ago
The problem is how long will UCF be relevent...USF faded, Boise St. is fading... UCF probably wont be able to keep its pace
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @ekeithly_1
UCF, unlike Boise State, is home to a big market. Unlike USF it comes in 1st in its big market (Orlando)
#HtownTakeover @sjcHTX 2h2 hours ago
I disagree. Maximize your earning potential now. Guaranteed $ > hypotheticals. A GOR sets the exit fee + buyout. Top AAC schools can elect to eat that cost in future realignment much like other expansion teams have done in past.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Replying to @sjcHTX
Big misconception that GOR = Exit Fee. It does not. Maryland ate Exit Fee....not ACC GOR for it wasn’t in place at the time. UCF should not sign GOR...too expensive of meal.
Mark Kochenderfer @MarkKochenderfe 30m30 minutes ago
Even if you quadruple the AAC contract you’re still looking at 8 million per school. With unequal sharing say the top teams get 12 million/yr. To put that in perspective pay out for the T1 and T2 content for big 12 was 36 million last year per team. That is a vast difference.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 5m5 minutes ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @frankthetank111
I suppose the devil is in the details but I can’t imagine any top valued AAC schools would sign AAC GOR. It would be interesting to see the difference, the gap Aresco is presenting between AAC GOR included Media deal for top AAC schools vs deal that does not include GOR.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 3h3 hours ago
@theDudeofWV hmm......why would AAC need a grant of rights?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub @joeovies
To try get more money out of ESPN. They say it openly. Its an attempt to be more attractive.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @JuliusJ85224635
Look, its simple. ESPN & Fox are competitors. They are not going to break up the Big 12 because doing so would not only cause them to pay more but one or the other would have a huge advantage.
Mark Kochenderfer @MarkKochenderfe 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV @JuliusJ85224635
Detente. What do you think of the AAC Trying to sign GO R. I think it reaffirms the fact that there may be no movement in the near future.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
ESPN & Fox made it clear to the B12 that if they expand with G5 schools they could forget about a new TV deal. An AAC GoR is a show pony only. AAC says openly its to make us more attractive to try & get a better deal.
Mark Kochenderfer @MarkKochenderfe 3h3 hours ago
Before the old Big East blew up wasn’t there talk about a gor ?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Yes.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @JuliusJ85224635
I wish there was a forum to discuss the many issues at play. Like the Alston class action lawsuit that could have half the ACC drop out of P5 football.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @JuliusJ85224635
99% of the people I respond to about expansion come from the standpoint of a fan with an extremely limited understanding of the issues at play. They have no idea of the history or what motivates expansion. The old model that caused B1G & SEC expansion is dead.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @JuliusJ85224635
Duke, Wake, Pitt, BC and GT will drop P5 football if the NCAA loses the Alston law suit.
Seanbo Sengo @SeanboSengo 3h3 hours ago
Why pay for 2 when you can pay for all 10
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @SeanboSengo
Think diminishing returns... pay more for less.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @JuliusJ85224635
AAC should see revenue jump from $2M per school per year to as much as $8M. WVU’s most profitable year in the BE was $9.5M. But AAC will not have equal revenue sharing.
I would like to know how many years AAC Commish Aresco is asking for in the GOR? If I was Houston, Cincinnati, UCF or USF I would not sign anything that takes be further than 2025. For UCONN it gets complicated with Big East possibilities for MBB/WBB.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 11h11 hours ago
Some people are not going to like this tweet. Aresco’s attempt to get AAC schools to sign GOR in return for those particular schools to receive bit more $ is more about giving Aresco more leverage to deal with Big 12 as a whole if/when Big 12 gets poached than its about B12 Exp.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 11h11 hours ago
People are talking. Gaining Leverage is everything. Aresco trying to establish future stability. Bowlsby and 5-6 other Big 12 schools will be doing the same shortly..requesting future stability from OU/UT. Hang on. Bumpy ride ahead.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 10h10 hours ago
Frank the Tank Retweeted Pat Forde
AAC trying to seek a grant of rights agreement is a classic prisoner’s dilemma scenario. Individual schools have an interest in not accepting it even though the league overall would benefit from everyone cooperating.
Frank the Tank @frankthetank111 5h5 hours ago
Frank the Tank Retweeted Joe Ho Ho Hovies
Key part of the AAC grant of rights story: there would be unequal revenue sharing in favor of UCF, USF, Cincinnati, Memphis and Houston since they are the most likely Power 5 expansion targets. (Note that UConn isn't on that list, which is probably why there's Big East talk.)
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 5h5 hours ago
Greg Flugaur Retweeted John Ourand
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ourand_SBJ/status/1072208578252034048 …
FS1 overtakes ESPN2
As BTM told us 9 days ago FOX Sports is extremely happy with Big Ten Content.
You should expect ruthless aggression.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 3h3 hours ago
Happens the same year the B10 content comes on board. Not shocking
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub
It took 2 years..but yes.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 5h5 hours ago
Oooh boy...
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 4h4 hours ago
I don’t see Danny White signing any GOR with the American Athletic Conference. No UCF, no AAC GOR. Take a little less Conference Media $ than it highest potential earnings (GOR inclusion) in exchange to keep it’s options (keep freedom) open is the prudent move for UCF.
Erich Keithly @ekeithly_1 3h3 hours ago
The problem is how long will UCF be relevent...USF faded, Boise St. is fading... UCF probably wont be able to keep its pace
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @ekeithly_1
UCF, unlike Boise State, is home to a big market. Unlike USF it comes in 1st in its big market (Orlando)
#HtownTakeover @sjcHTX 2h2 hours ago
I disagree. Maximize your earning potential now. Guaranteed $ > hypotheticals. A GOR sets the exit fee + buyout. Top AAC schools can elect to eat that cost in future realignment much like other expansion teams have done in past.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Replying to @sjcHTX
Big misconception that GOR = Exit Fee. It does not. Maryland ate Exit Fee....not ACC GOR for it wasn’t in place at the time. UCF should not sign GOR...too expensive of meal.
Mark Kochenderfer @MarkKochenderfe 30m30 minutes ago
Even if you quadruple the AAC contract you’re still looking at 8 million per school. With unequal sharing say the top teams get 12 million/yr. To put that in perspective pay out for the T1 and T2 content for big 12 was 36 million last year per team. That is a vast difference.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 5m5 minutes ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @frankthetank111
I suppose the devil is in the details but I can’t imagine any top valued AAC schools would sign AAC GOR. It would be interesting to see the difference, the gap Aresco is presenting between AAC GOR included Media deal for top AAC schools vs deal that does not include GOR.
Doug @NebGradDubDub 3h3 hours ago
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @NebGradDubDub @joeovies
To try get more money out of ESPN. They say it openly. Its an attempt to be more attractive.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @JuliusJ85224635
Look, its simple. ESPN & Fox are competitors. They are not going to break up the Big 12 because doing so would not only cause them to pay more but one or the other would have a huge advantage.
Mark Kochenderfer @MarkKochenderfe 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV @JuliusJ85224635
Detente. What do you think of the AAC Trying to sign GO R. I think it reaffirms the fact that there may be no movement in the near future.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
ESPN & Fox made it clear to the B12 that if they expand with G5 schools they could forget about a new TV deal. An AAC GoR is a show pony only. AAC says openly its to make us more attractive to try & get a better deal.
Mark Kochenderfer @MarkKochenderfe 3h3 hours ago
Before the old Big East blew up wasn’t there talk about a gor ?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Yes.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @JuliusJ85224635
I wish there was a forum to discuss the many issues at play. Like the Alston class action lawsuit that could have half the ACC drop out of P5 football.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @JuliusJ85224635
99% of the people I respond to about expansion come from the standpoint of a fan with an extremely limited understanding of the issues at play. They have no idea of the history or what motivates expansion. The old model that caused B1G & SEC expansion is dead.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @JuliusJ85224635
Duke, Wake, Pitt, BC and GT will drop P5 football if the NCAA loses the Alston law suit.
Seanbo Sengo @SeanboSengo 3h3 hours ago
Why pay for 2 when you can pay for all 10
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @SeanboSengo
Think diminishing returns... pay more for less.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 3h3 hours ago
Replying to @MarkKochenderfe @JuliusJ85224635
AAC should see revenue jump from $2M per school per year to as much as $8M. WVU’s most profitable year in the BE was $9.5M. But AAC will not have equal revenue sharing.
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I always find it interesting that folks never seem to consider that the players might behave strategically.
Eg, Oklahoma may have no intention of leaving the B12, but if they put out that they are actively talking with the B10, the little 8 immediately fall in line.
I'm not saying that's happening, but strategic behavior never seems to enter the analysis.
Eg, Oklahoma may have no intention of leaving the B12, but if they put out that they are actively talking with the B10, the little 8 immediately fall in line.
I'm not saying that's happening, but strategic behavior never seems to enter the analysis.
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nelsonmuntz
Point Center
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The Big 12 without Texas and Oklahoma is virtually worthless to TV. I don't like the American, but I certainly wouldn't want to join the Flyover Conference, or whatever that league would be called. My gut is that UT and OU like being in the Big 12, and have no plans to leave, but I have to say that I would enjoy the karma of WVU trying to beg their way back into the American if UT and OU do leave.
Also, does anyone remember the team that UConn and the other Big East football schools threw out a lifeline to Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Baylor when it looked like those schools were getting left behind if Texas, Tech, OU and Okie Lite went to the Pac 12? I do. Still waiting for the payback for that solid.
Also, does anyone remember the team that UConn and the other Big East football schools threw out a lifeline to Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Baylor when it looked like those schools were getting left behind if Texas, Tech, OU and Okie Lite went to the Pac 12? I do. Still waiting for the payback for that solid.
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Are you crazy?
K St, Kan, Ok St still have more cachet than any team in the American. The little 8 wouldn't be much, but it would still be bigger than the AAC.
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I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Nelson. If you remove Texas and Oklahoma from the football side of The Big 12, I don't see the schools left behind moving the needle anymore than the top programs of The AAC.
The appeal of a program like Ok State or Texas Tech is in watching them match up against UT or OU. Outside of a very concentrated area of the country the average college football fan would be no more inclined to watch OSU match up with Baylor, than they would be to watch UCF versus USF, or Boise State versus Utah State. You could say the same thing about most conferences, but the fate of The Big 12 is more tied to these two programs than any other.
If UT and OU did bolt for The B1G it might be to the benefit of the left behind programs to seek their best deals including to and up to forming new smaller regional conferences. Hypothetically 9 teams playing an 8 game round robin. These conferences could coordinate to have their champions face off in a playoff for a NY6 auto bid.
Hypothetical Realignment-
East Conference: Army, Navy, WVU, CT, Temple, Cincy, Memphis, UCF, USF
West Conference: KU, KSU, ISU, OSU, TT, Baylor, TCU, UH, SMU.
I included independents like Army because they bring TV Value, The AAC because their mulling of a GOR could cause programs to look elsewhere in a few years, and The Big 12 which would essentially be a loosely affiliated group of teams without UT and OU. I left out schools like Tulsa, Tulane, and ECU because their total athletic departments are more in line with programs in Conference USA and The Sunbelt.
Play 8 games within your conference and schedule the other 4 from P5's, Regional G5's, FCS, etc.
A UConn schedule like this makes more sense to me. 8 Home 4 Away some years, 7 Home 5 Away others. Short of getting into The B1G or ACC something like this would probably stir up more interest than what is currently happening.
H-FCS Regional
A-Cincy
H-FBS Regional (Rutgers)
H G5 Regional (Umass)
A-USF
A-Army
H-Memphis
H-Navy
H-UCF
A-TCU
A-WVU
H-Temple
Last edited:
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If our future is non-P4, I’m ok with this.
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Greg Flugaur @flugempire 8h8 hours ago
Big 12 is not expanding. AAC Commish attempting to get a GOR among its schools is too gain a little more leverage when negotiating next AAC Media deal + give AAC major leverage if/when Big 12 needs to backfill from being poached (B1G).
Ray Borelli @Ray_Borelli 8h8 hours ago
Replying to @flugempire
Agree. Although could be motivating factor for Big 12 to consider adding 2 now as a counter to that leverage. Move would backfire on Aresco in that case. Risky in that sense + unequal revenue is never good.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 8h8 hours ago
ESPN paid Big 12 more money not to expand. FOX has zero interest..for reasons I have touched upon. Big 12 won’t be expanding..and I don’t think AAC GOR gets done.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Most important and lasting mark OU President James Gallogly will leave is that his Presidency happened at all. Oklahoma’s BOR wanted to make a clean cut from past. Oklahoma is going into a different direction. If Gallogly lasts 1 more year or 6 more it’s “change” that won.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
it looks as if the Big 12 and Pac 12 are working on some type of arrangement where they combine their TV rights for the their next media deals and create a new type of conference network out of the ashes of P12N. 1 of 2
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
But don't call it a merger... both the B12 and P12 would retain their separate conference identities. They would just combine media rights and play each other a lot... like a whole lot.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
And the talk right now is LHN would remain separate with the hope the Longhorns would eventually join the new joint T3 media offering.
Tim Riordan @Plain_Old_Tim 8h8 hours ago
hmmm... I guess it would be attractive given the time zone coverage, you're literally buying 18 straight hours of football. But I'm not sure if the whole would be worth more than the sum of the parts.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
Replying to @Plain_Old_Tim
My take is that ESPN would go for it... cross conference matchups would be must see TV. Even more of an indicator that WVU needs to land in the ACC though.
Janet Currie @currie2 7h7 hours ago
Sorry, I wasn’t clear, what I intended to ask was what are the chances of WVU moving to a different conference? The increased travel further west would be a killer for us, in my opinion, and I’ve really come to dislike the Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 7h7 hours ago
The Big 12 has been very good for WVU. A scheduling arrangement with the Pac 12 might not effect WVU at all as I'm certain P12 schools would be as reluctant to head east as WVU is to head west.
Janet Currie @currie2 7h7 hours ago
Thanks. I don’t disagree with you and I’m happy to know that they can do this agreement without forcing increased travel on us. I still have some concerns about the conference, but you brought up changing conferences first. Why?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 7h7 hours ago
Ancillary reasons... ACC is a better fit, closer, thus more fans at ways games, more local interest in games with local teams and long established rivalries, more sponsorship opportunities (think Backyard Brawl & Black Diamond Trophy).
Julius Johnson @JuliusJ85224635 4h4 hours ago
I still don’t understand why Notre Dame would want to join the ACC and why the other Power 5 Programs would want to try to force Notre Dame to join the ACC. No incentives that I can see from any direction except from our own here at WVU.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago
ND, as a wild card, potentially steals a playoff spot from the P5 schools.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
Any Big 12 - Pac 12 deal would not benefit WVU, but such a deal would effectively freeze out ND and put more pressure on the Irish to go full in with the ACC.
Jay Brown @JayTLonghorn 7h7 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
The irony of this is pretty funny. ND has a scheduling agreement with ACC. ESPN helps broker a scheduling agreement (but not merge) between B12/PAC to force ND to 'merge' with a conf...
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 7h7 hours ago
Imagine that... ESPN moving pieces to add value to its holdings.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
What the Big 12 and Pac 12 want to do - their "scheduling agreement" is simply in the best interests of both conferences and likely their best shot at keeping within shouting distance of the SEC.
Big 12 is not expanding. AAC Commish attempting to get a GOR among its schools is too gain a little more leverage when negotiating next AAC Media deal + give AAC major leverage if/when Big 12 needs to backfill from being poached (B1G).
Ray Borelli @Ray_Borelli 8h8 hours ago
Replying to @flugempire
Agree. Although could be motivating factor for Big 12 to consider adding 2 now as a counter to that leverage. Move would backfire on Aresco in that case. Risky in that sense + unequal revenue is never good.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 8h8 hours ago
ESPN paid Big 12 more money not to expand. FOX has zero interest..for reasons I have touched upon. Big 12 won’t be expanding..and I don’t think AAC GOR gets done.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Most important and lasting mark OU President James Gallogly will leave is that his Presidency happened at all. Oklahoma’s BOR wanted to make a clean cut from past. Oklahoma is going into a different direction. If Gallogly lasts 1 more year or 6 more it’s “change” that won.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
it looks as if the Big 12 and Pac 12 are working on some type of arrangement where they combine their TV rights for the their next media deals and create a new type of conference network out of the ashes of P12N. 1 of 2
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
But don't call it a merger... both the B12 and P12 would retain their separate conference identities. They would just combine media rights and play each other a lot... like a whole lot.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
And the talk right now is LHN would remain separate with the hope the Longhorns would eventually join the new joint T3 media offering.
Tim Riordan @Plain_Old_Tim 8h8 hours ago
hmmm... I guess it would be attractive given the time zone coverage, you're literally buying 18 straight hours of football. But I'm not sure if the whole would be worth more than the sum of the parts.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
Replying to @Plain_Old_Tim
My take is that ESPN would go for it... cross conference matchups would be must see TV. Even more of an indicator that WVU needs to land in the ACC though.
Janet Currie @currie2 7h7 hours ago
Sorry, I wasn’t clear, what I intended to ask was what are the chances of WVU moving to a different conference? The increased travel further west would be a killer for us, in my opinion, and I’ve really come to dislike the Big 12.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 7h7 hours ago
The Big 12 has been very good for WVU. A scheduling arrangement with the Pac 12 might not effect WVU at all as I'm certain P12 schools would be as reluctant to head east as WVU is to head west.
Janet Currie @currie2 7h7 hours ago
Thanks. I don’t disagree with you and I’m happy to know that they can do this agreement without forcing increased travel on us. I still have some concerns about the conference, but you brought up changing conferences first. Why?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 7h7 hours ago
Ancillary reasons... ACC is a better fit, closer, thus more fans at ways games, more local interest in games with local teams and long established rivalries, more sponsorship opportunities (think Backyard Brawl & Black Diamond Trophy).
Julius Johnson @JuliusJ85224635 4h4 hours ago
I still don’t understand why Notre Dame would want to join the ACC and why the other Power 5 Programs would want to try to force Notre Dame to join the ACC. No incentives that I can see from any direction except from our own here at WVU.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 2h2 hours ago
ND, as a wild card, potentially steals a playoff spot from the P5 schools.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
Any Big 12 - Pac 12 deal would not benefit WVU, but such a deal would effectively freeze out ND and put more pressure on the Irish to go full in with the ACC.
Jay Brown @JayTLonghorn 7h7 hours ago
Replying to @theDudeofWV
The irony of this is pretty funny. ND has a scheduling agreement with ACC. ESPN helps broker a scheduling agreement (but not merge) between B12/PAC to force ND to 'merge' with a conf...
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 7h7 hours ago
Imagine that... ESPN moving pieces to add value to its holdings.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 8h8 hours ago
What the Big 12 and Pac 12 want to do - their "scheduling agreement" is simply in the best interests of both conferences and likely their best shot at keeping within shouting distance of the SEC.
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Greg Flugaur @flugempire 8h8 hours ago
Greg Flugaur Retweeted Nicole Auerbach
https://mobile.twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1072874177596719104 … Playoff Expansion is happening, and it should.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 7h7 hours ago
Greg Flugaur Retweeted Brett McMurphy
https://mobile.twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1072896077274206208 … This is incorrect. Expansion to 8 would not have to end CCG’s. Actually..it would increase the value of CCG’s..making them auto bids to 8 team playoffs.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 7h7 hours ago
“Neinas’ eight-team model would include five Power 5 conference champions, top Group of 5 champion and two at-large spots. Conference championship games would be eliminated. The regular season would end the weekend after Thanksgiving, with quarterfinal games played on campuses”
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 7h7 hours ago
How would SEC, B1G, PAC & ACC determine a conference champion without a CCG? Ridiculous notion. CCG’s are not leaving the landscape of College Football.
shoobie doobie doowah @Expansion_Crush 2h2 hours ago
They've already been sold well past the end of the current CFB playoff deal
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Replying to @Expansion_Crush
Very true.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 7h7 hours ago
If this new 8 team playoff did pass with *best* G5 team receiving a slot in new playoff system I wonder if this would push AAC and ESPN to attempt to expand AAC footprint to BYU & Boise State? Something to ponder.
Josh Johnson @jsjohnson78 7h7 hours ago
Josh Johnson Retweeted Greg Flugaur
A change to an 8 team playoff would probably push ND to the ACC and BYU to either the AAC or back to the MWC. But until access to the playoff, not just a meaningless NY6 exhibition game, is actually viable there's no reason for BYU to move.
Grizzfan @ImaDepper 6h6 hours ago
Replying to @flugempire
AAC and Aresco should be doing this already, can't figure out why they haven't moved on this. BYU will never get a P5 invite, and their ESPN deal ends soon. 2 good football schools. Figure out the Olympic sports and get it done.
former benchwarmer ‘tec @davidmarcus__ 6h6 hours ago
Replying to @flugempire
SDSU & Boise? They were the ones who were supposed to join but Boise balked last time when Tulane was added.
W. Jackson @WesJacksonUSF 6h6 hours ago
Replying to @ImaDepper @flugempire
All dependent of TV deal. Right nowBYU makes much more than current AAC contract. Boise about the same with uneven revenue from MWC. AAC strikes s deal that is worth 8-10 mil all that changes for sure.
Matt Smith @MattSmithCFB 5h5 hours ago
In an 8-team playoff in 2016, 12-0 Alabama would be locked into a top 4 seed, so it could rest starters for the SEC Championship Game, and then 8-3 Florida could steal an automatic bid against backups. So stupid.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @MattSmithCFB
The same scenario was alive this year in SEC CCG. But Bama wanted to win SEC and did not fold up. I think you are seeing ghosts where there is none.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @MattSmithCFB
These schools want to win their Conference titles. There won’t be any folding up. HC’s make too much in bonuses in their contracts for Conference Championships. You can’t eliminate CCG’s and playoffs will expand to 8.
Greg Flugaur Retweeted Nicole Auerbach
https://mobile.twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1072874177596719104 … Playoff Expansion is happening, and it should.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 7h7 hours ago
Greg Flugaur Retweeted Brett McMurphy
https://mobile.twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1072896077274206208 … This is incorrect. Expansion to 8 would not have to end CCG’s. Actually..it would increase the value of CCG’s..making them auto bids to 8 team playoffs.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 7h7 hours ago
“Neinas’ eight-team model would include five Power 5 conference champions, top Group of 5 champion and two at-large spots. Conference championship games would be eliminated. The regular season would end the weekend after Thanksgiving, with quarterfinal games played on campuses”
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 7h7 hours ago
How would SEC, B1G, PAC & ACC determine a conference champion without a CCG? Ridiculous notion. CCG’s are not leaving the landscape of College Football.
shoobie doobie doowah @Expansion_Crush 2h2 hours ago
They've already been sold well past the end of the current CFB playoff deal
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 2h2 hours ago
Replying to @Expansion_Crush
Very true.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 7h7 hours ago
If this new 8 team playoff did pass with *best* G5 team receiving a slot in new playoff system I wonder if this would push AAC and ESPN to attempt to expand AAC footprint to BYU & Boise State? Something to ponder.
Josh Johnson @jsjohnson78 7h7 hours ago
Josh Johnson Retweeted Greg Flugaur
A change to an 8 team playoff would probably push ND to the ACC and BYU to either the AAC or back to the MWC. But until access to the playoff, not just a meaningless NY6 exhibition game, is actually viable there's no reason for BYU to move.
Grizzfan @ImaDepper 6h6 hours ago
Replying to @flugempire
AAC and Aresco should be doing this already, can't figure out why they haven't moved on this. BYU will never get a P5 invite, and their ESPN deal ends soon. 2 good football schools. Figure out the Olympic sports and get it done.
former benchwarmer ‘tec @davidmarcus__ 6h6 hours ago
Replying to @flugempire
SDSU & Boise? They were the ones who were supposed to join but Boise balked last time when Tulane was added.
W. Jackson @WesJacksonUSF 6h6 hours ago
Replying to @ImaDepper @flugempire
All dependent of TV deal. Right nowBYU makes much more than current AAC contract. Boise about the same with uneven revenue from MWC. AAC strikes s deal that is worth 8-10 mil all that changes for sure.
Matt Smith @MattSmithCFB 5h5 hours ago
In an 8-team playoff in 2016, 12-0 Alabama would be locked into a top 4 seed, so it could rest starters for the SEC Championship Game, and then 8-3 Florida could steal an automatic bid against backups. So stupid.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @MattSmithCFB
The same scenario was alive this year in SEC CCG. But Bama wanted to win SEC and did not fold up. I think you are seeing ghosts where there is none.
Greg Flugaur @flugempire 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @MattSmithCFB
These schools want to win their Conference titles. There won’t be any folding up. HC’s make too much in bonuses in their contracts for Conference Championships. You can’t eliminate CCG’s and playoffs will expand to 8.
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MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Have been away doing holiday related things and was going to update you all on some things and then this broke. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/12/12/two-reasons-college-football-is-making-playoff-expansion-push/amp/ … told you so
https://nypost.com/2018/12/12/two-reasons-college-football-is-making-playoff-expansion-push/
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Antitrust and collusion suits were being prepared spearheaded by UCF and Aresco. 8 team playoff will have auto bids for P5 champs. It’s the only way they will agree to it.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 Nov 20
My former Big East contact is telling me that as soon as the Playoff committee makes there final selections and excludes UCF(if they are still unbeaten) then Aresco will be pursuing anti-trust litigation.
Duke Silver @Goazendons Dec 7
This still happening?
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Replying to @Goazendons
It is most def still happening but the push for an 8 team playoff is very much about stifling these suits. Also keeps Ohio State happy
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
In other rumblings I’m hearing B12 expansion will be a heated topic between presidents and ADs this offseason with many now favoring adding 4 (assuming AZ schools are coming) and scaling back to 8 conference games.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
UCF is a clear favorite to be included due to state population, recruiting opportunities, alumni size, and recent success on field.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Number 4 is still a who’s who of previous candidates but don’t rule out another Pac12 school to join the AZ duo.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
In expanded playoff selection look for highest ranked G5 conference champ to get auto bid as well leaving 2 at large bids that along with seeding will keep ranking committee relevant
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
This is the plan that has been presented already to espn.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
At large bids Keeps SEC and ND happy with the latter able to retain their independent status and not be forced to join a conference.
josh hammer @Josh_A_Hammer 6h6 hours ago
so AZ, ASU, UCF, UC?
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Replying to @Josh_A_Hammer
Really no clue who the 4th would be until discussions start in earnest. And UCF could get shuffled out if Pac12 raiding picks up steam: B10 still wants more schools and UT and OU have said no.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Just a reminder where you heard it first
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Also do not believe what you hear of B12 and P12 trying to jointly leverage their tv rights in the next go round. B12 is going for blood and will not help to boost the value of P12 at the expense of their own.
David #BeatUtah @Taquineur 6h6 hours ago
Why on earth would the AZ schools join the Big12? I'm just not seeing it.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @Taquineur
Money. Both schools would make substantially more now and projected $10-$15 million more per year after the next tv contract is negotiated.
Zach Mauch @zachmauch 5h5 hours ago
Where would the first round be played? I would think you would have to give home games to the top 4 seeds. Too much travel once you pass 4 teams. Also, that would mean that you could keep everything else the same (new years bowls).
MH ver3 @MH ver3 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @zachmauch
That’s something I haven’t heard a lot about. Home playoff games would be a HUGE revenue creator for schools
Have been away doing holiday related things and was going to update you all on some things and then this broke. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/12/12/two-reasons-college-football-is-making-playoff-expansion-push/amp/ … told you so
https://nypost.com/2018/12/12/two-reasons-college-football-is-making-playoff-expansion-push/
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Antitrust and collusion suits were being prepared spearheaded by UCF and Aresco. 8 team playoff will have auto bids for P5 champs. It’s the only way they will agree to it.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 Nov 20
My former Big East contact is telling me that as soon as the Playoff committee makes there final selections and excludes UCF(if they are still unbeaten) then Aresco will be pursuing anti-trust litigation.
Duke Silver @Goazendons Dec 7
This still happening?
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Replying to @Goazendons
It is most def still happening but the push for an 8 team playoff is very much about stifling these suits. Also keeps Ohio State happy
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
In other rumblings I’m hearing B12 expansion will be a heated topic between presidents and ADs this offseason with many now favoring adding 4 (assuming AZ schools are coming) and scaling back to 8 conference games.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
UCF is a clear favorite to be included due to state population, recruiting opportunities, alumni size, and recent success on field.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Number 4 is still a who’s who of previous candidates but don’t rule out another Pac12 school to join the AZ duo.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
In expanded playoff selection look for highest ranked G5 conference champ to get auto bid as well leaving 2 at large bids that along with seeding will keep ranking committee relevant
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
This is the plan that has been presented already to espn.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
At large bids Keeps SEC and ND happy with the latter able to retain their independent status and not be forced to join a conference.
josh hammer @Josh_A_Hammer 6h6 hours ago
so AZ, ASU, UCF, UC?
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Replying to @Josh_A_Hammer
Really no clue who the 4th would be until discussions start in earnest. And UCF could get shuffled out if Pac12 raiding picks up steam: B10 still wants more schools and UT and OU have said no.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Just a reminder where you heard it first
MH ver3 @MH ver3 6h6 hours ago
Also do not believe what you hear of B12 and P12 trying to jointly leverage their tv rights in the next go round. B12 is going for blood and will not help to boost the value of P12 at the expense of their own.
David #BeatUtah @Taquineur 6h6 hours ago
Why on earth would the AZ schools join the Big12? I'm just not seeing it.
MH ver3 @MH ver3 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @Taquineur
Money. Both schools would make substantially more now and projected $10-$15 million more per year after the next tv contract is negotiated.
Zach Mauch @zachmauch 5h5 hours ago
Where would the first round be played? I would think you would have to give home games to the top 4 seeds. Too much travel once you pass 4 teams. Also, that would mean that you could keep everything else the same (new years bowls).
MH ver3 @MH ver3 5h5 hours ago
Replying to @zachmauch
That’s something I haven’t heard a lot about. Home playoff games would be a HUGE revenue creator for schools
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Just a week ago, the CFP Exec. Director stated that there had been zero conversation about expanding the playoff...
"There's been no talk about a format change in the meetings of the commissioners and the presidents who manage the CFP," Hancock told ESPN. "This was the kind of debate we wanted when we created the playoff. We wanted diverse opinions, we wanted people who wouldn't hesitate to state their feelings, and man, we got it."
"There's been no talk about a format change in the meetings of the commissioners and the presidents who manage the CFP," Hancock told ESPN. "This was the kind of debate we wanted when we created the playoff. We wanted diverse opinions, we wanted people who wouldn't hesitate to state their feelings, and man, we got it."
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Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Ya'll should know by now I don't say what's popular just to be liked by any fan base. The chatter about the Big 12's regret at not adding UCF is coming from Big 12 contacts.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
You should not be surprised to learn that the Big 12 would love to have that Oklahoma - Texas CCG each and every year. What's the best way to accomplish that?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
I would be shocked if the Big 12 doesn't seriously consider expansion again in 2025.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
And this is where I remind you that the Big 12 paid Bevilacqua Helfant Ventures a ton of money to do a market analysis of G5 schools and was told that UCF/USF combo was the most valuable.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
And while I'm at it let me also remind you that the Big 12 hired Navigate Research and was told it 62% chance of reaching the playoffs if it stays at 10 members & a 75% with 12 members and two divisions.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
If UCF can continue to be successful they will be just as attractive in 2025 as Arizona and Arizona State if not more attractive due to the recruiting base in Florida.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
The odds are stacked against UCF or any G5 school, but at least what was considered not possible may be possible in 2025.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Now I have to make two sets of fans mad. Cincinatti and UCONN will never be on the Big 12's radar. WVU does not want to elevate UC to P5 status. UCONN... football...
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Remember the Big 12 is made up of two factions... schools that line up behind what Texas wants and schools that line up behind what OU wants. You have TTU, TCU and WVU usually voting with Texas. That's enough votes to blackball anyone.
Julius Johnson @JuliusJ85224635 4h4 hours ago
I want UCF and USF. But the main problem I see with expanding into Florida is ESPN. ESPN would have little incentive to push those two programs into Power 5 status in Florida. But I say we do for it as long as we don’t cause injury to Big 12 my getting ESPN pissed.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Yes, ESPN already has the SEC Fla market and the ACC Fla market. They do not want the Big 12 in Fla.
Julius Johnson @JuliusJ85224635 4h4 hours ago
So you are thinking a different Media company moves in for Big 12. Gotcha. I like where you are going with this.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @JuliusJ85224635
No, I think the Big 12 damaged its relationship with Fox and that it will resign with ESPN and an online distributer.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @JuliusJ85224635
I also think that if FSU and Miami continue to struggle that UCF's value to ESPN will increase... IF... big ifs...
GREG SW AIM SHOW @GSw aim 23h23 hours ago
Conference realignment sabre rattling begins, as#FightOn, #UCLA, #SunDevils, #BearDown among the #Pac12 schools making Commish Larry Scott and other conference members nervous with "quiet early talks" with the #Big12. Schools very concerned about TV deals and the #CFBPlayoff
Ya'll should know by now I don't say what's popular just to be liked by any fan base. The chatter about the Big 12's regret at not adding UCF is coming from Big 12 contacts.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
You should not be surprised to learn that the Big 12 would love to have that Oklahoma - Texas CCG each and every year. What's the best way to accomplish that?
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
I would be shocked if the Big 12 doesn't seriously consider expansion again in 2025.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
And this is where I remind you that the Big 12 paid Bevilacqua Helfant Ventures a ton of money to do a market analysis of G5 schools and was told that UCF/USF combo was the most valuable.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
And while I'm at it let me also remind you that the Big 12 hired Navigate Research and was told it 62% chance of reaching the playoffs if it stays at 10 members & a 75% with 12 members and two divisions.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
If UCF can continue to be successful they will be just as attractive in 2025 as Arizona and Arizona State if not more attractive due to the recruiting base in Florida.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
The odds are stacked against UCF or any G5 school, but at least what was considered not possible may be possible in 2025.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Now I have to make two sets of fans mad. Cincinatti and UCONN will never be on the Big 12's radar. WVU does not want to elevate UC to P5 status. UCONN... football...
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 5h5 hours ago
Remember the Big 12 is made up of two factions... schools that line up behind what Texas wants and schools that line up behind what OU wants. You have TTU, TCU and WVU usually voting with Texas. That's enough votes to blackball anyone.
Julius Johnson @JuliusJ85224635 4h4 hours ago
I want UCF and USF. But the main problem I see with expanding into Florida is ESPN. ESPN would have little incentive to push those two programs into Power 5 status in Florida. But I say we do for it as long as we don’t cause injury to Big 12 my getting ESPN pissed.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Yes, ESPN already has the SEC Fla market and the ACC Fla market. They do not want the Big 12 in Fla.
Julius Johnson @JuliusJ85224635 4h4 hours ago
So you are thinking a different Media company moves in for Big 12. Gotcha. I like where you are going with this.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @JuliusJ85224635
No, I think the Big 12 damaged its relationship with Fox and that it will resign with ESPN and an online distributer.
Christopher Lambert @theDudeofWV 4h4 hours ago
Replying to @JuliusJ85224635
I also think that if FSU and Miami continue to struggle that UCF's value to ESPN will increase... IF... big ifs...
GREG SW AIM SHOW @GSw aim 23h23 hours ago
Conference realignment sabre rattling begins, as
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The P5 likely are taking a very close look at how Louisville, Rutgers, and to a lesser extent Maryland have ended up being poor additions in certain capacities. RU is obviously a competitive disaster for the B1G and has not moved the TV needle. UL has been a PR disaster for the ACC, while being competitively average. MD hasn't caused major headaches, outside of the Durkin situation, but also hasn't really added much to the B1G.
I think the P5 are now very wary of the adds that they consider and want to be sure the additions realistically will bring a return on and off the court instead of being speculative and an attempt to "get into a TV market." That's not necessarily a positive for UConn, too.
I think the P5 are now very wary of the adds that they consider and want to be sure the additions realistically will bring a return on and off the court instead of being speculative and an attempt to "get into a TV market." That's not necessarily a positive for UConn, too.
The B1G doesn't care if Rutgers or Maryland succeed or not. It was all about money and to a lesser extent recruiting territory and AAU. If either program can become a powerhouse with B1G resources, that would just be icing on the cake, but it's not why they were added. Rutgers has sucked at most sports, as they always have. However, lumping Maryland in with Rutgers is wrong. Maryland is middle of the pack in football and one of the more tradition rich basketball schools in the B1G. Maryland is also a powerhouse in several Olympic sports and has won several national championships in a few different Olympic sports since joining the B1G, including men's lacrosse, women's lacrosse (twice) and just a couple weeks ago - men's soccer. Maryland has also won 17 B1G Conference Championships across all sports since joining the B1G, while Rutgers has not won any B1G Conference Championships in any sport. You cannot lump Rutgers and Maryland together in terms of on the field performance.
Will he be joining BTM for dinner with Fluguer the fantastic. ? Could be a real “ Mensa moment “
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If they are now saying that they'll adding UCF in 2025, what happens if UCF hire a Bob Draco type coach in 2022 and goes 0-22 in '23 and '24? And UConn goes 22-0?
It could happen...
It could happen...
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Exactly, if Louisville was still in the AAC today instead of the ACC, would any conference even take their call right now?