Non-Key Tweets

[Dooley]

I certainly agree. It is an intense mutual disdain and dislike.

In this case, though, it is not a good thing. That is why the "ND belongs in the Big Ten" crowd is dead wrong.

Other than being located in the Midwest, ND has nothing much in common with the Big Ten.

ND will not join the Big Ten, even though it could earn the most TV dollars and cut its travel costs the most by doing so.

The Big Ten is the absolute last place ND ever wants to be.

It thinks it will be "regionalized" there as a Midwest school.

Many of ND's students, fans and alumni and located in the Northeast. It wants Northeast exposure for that reason and Southeast exposure for recruiting and access to major markets there (Atlanta, Miami).

ND would be a bad fit in the Big Ten, being only one of two private schools in a huge, land grant public school conference.

ND believes that joining the Big Ten would place it under the thumb of Ohio State and especially Michigan (who rule the Big Ten), the latter school being considered the mortal enemy of ND.

ND doesn't want to join any conference in football. But, if it had to, it much prefers the ACC.

I'm a homer, but this is exactly why UCONN has so much value in CR! If UCONN were to go B1G, it gives ND (and/or whoever) another foot in the door in NYC while also opening the door into Boston as well. If you pick up a Boston Globe or Herald, UCONN is covered fairly well. Low hanging fruit just bursting with flavor!

 

[FDNY99]

If adding Buffalo makes UCONN contiguous (I agree, I have no idea why a 16 mile gap between NJ and CT is important but whatever), then I'm all for it. One less hurdle for UCONN going B1G!

IF the B1G added Buffalo I can't see UCONN being added as well. I'm a born and bred Husky fan to the core...but Buffalo to the B1G leaves us out for good..isolated on an island!

 

[UConn9604]

Proof? Other than your own unsupported speculation, that is?

Any links? Any documents? Any reputable source?

Fair enough, although obligations are generally voided in the event of a material breach under just about every contract.

I see no evidence that Notre Dame is unhappy about their decision to join the ACC.

Of course there's no evidence of it, and you'd be hard pressed to find evidence that they were ever unhappy with their relationship with the Big East. They only left because they saw the league taking a nosedive and because they got a better deal. They're happy wherever they go, because they hold all of the cards.

 

[Dooley]

IF the B1G added Buffalo I can't see UCONN being added as well. I'm a born and bred Husky fan to the core...but Buffalo to the B1G leaves us out for good..isolated on an island!

You may be right. It certainly follows the "whatever kicks UCONN fans in the nutz the hardest will happen" model. UCONN playing in a mid-major while the likes of Buffalo, BC, RU, Fruit, DePaul, Seton Hall, and Providence all have stable and better conference homes would create chaos in Connecticut.

 

[btstimpy]

Here's the deal - whatever people think of the 3.6 mm people in CT, they mostly all are UConn fans and will watch UConn sports on cable (and demand that UConn sports be carried on their systems). That brings in the wealthiest portion of the NYC metro area and more to fray according to Mike Tranghese. (See Below) I am familiar with Buffalo - people will only watch SUNY Buffalo upon bribery, deep intoxication or a gun to their head. IMO, there will be zero following of SUNY Buffalo sports in NYC (and zero demand to add BTN to a cable system for SUNY sports).

Here's what Tranghese said:

Rutgers was accepted into the Big Ten last fall, with the widespread belief that the conference wanted a foothold in the New York metropolitan area. But while intending no disrespect to Rutgers, Tranghese said: “A lot of people don’t understand what makes New York tick. The two schools with the biggest impact in the New York market have been Syracuse and Connecticut.”

Is this true? Don't know for sure, but I have a multitude of friends in Fairfield County who are loyal, well-healed Husky fans and who follow the Huskies religiously.

I hear you. And that is how the ACC thinks and why I want the ACC to add UConn. We don't yet have an ACC Network.

The Big Ten's model is cable boxes. The BTN contract with the Cable Provider says that the BTN gets more subscriber fees from ALL the cable boxes in the area if the Big Ten has a school located in the area. They don't care if no one watches the BTN, just that they pay for the BTN when they pay for their cable box.

You have 3.6 million in Connecticut. How many are in New York State? They don't have to watch SUNY Buffalo. They just have to have a cable box. That's why they added a failing Athletic department in Maryland and a struggling one in Rutgers. New Jersey and Maryland have lots of cable boxes.

Some here are suggesting that the Northeast Cable Companies will fight this model. I know that the Big Ten Network thinks it can force these fees on the Cable Companies.

An again, I don't think anyone wants to watch Michigan play SUNY Buffalo in football or basketball. At least not at the level of disparity we'll find today.

 

[specialisthusky]

You may be right. It certainly follows the "whatever kicks UCONN fans in the nutz the hardest will happen" model. UCONN playing in a mid-major while the likes of Buffalo, BC, RU, Fruit, DePaul, Seton Hall, and Providence all have stable and better conference homes would create chaos in Connecticut.

Wait...we still haven't reached the point of chaos?!?!?

 

[metsfan2323]

You have to really be gullible to take this Buffalo nonsense seriously.

 

[woomba]

The Dude gets his information from E. Gordon Gee, former President of West Virginia University. Soon to be former President of The Ohio State University. Does he talk with BuffaloLion? Maybe. But most of what he gets comes from Ohio State. He's not very well tapped into the ACC. I can assure you. But he has some good sources in the Big Ten.

Lol. Name one thing he got right about the Big Ten. You're absolutely right he knows nothing about ACC but he's batting zeros all around.

 

[Husky25]

I don't think SUNY Buffalo is a good choice myself. But I can understand why the Big Ten might. AAU and Cable Boxes in a big state. It fits their model perfectly.

Those red blotches in central to Western NY are Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse.

New York State's population density is just over 400 people per square mile and that big red blotch on the lower right hand part of the map drastically brings that number up to 400 ppsm. There are relatively few "cable boxes in a big state" say as compared to Connecticut, which has over 700 people per square mile.

 

[Sea Goat]

Fair enough, although obligations are generally voided in the event of a material breach under just about every contract.




Of course there's no evidence of it, and you'd be hard pressed to find evidence that they were ever unhappy with their relationship with the Big East. They only left because they saw the league taking a nosedive and because they got a better deal. They're happy wherever they go, because they hold all of the cards.

ND does what best suits ND. There is no room for charity or sentimentalism in college sports - it is too profitable. My original point was that the 26-27 end date must somehow be related to ND's NBC contract termination date (or will be related thereto when it comes up). This is not happenstance. ND has a sweetheart deal with the ACC and it will never join the ACC as a full member while it can enjoy this special treatment. The one caveat is that ND most likely has an "out" if it must join a conference before that date because the playoff system changes and requires conference membership to participate. Then ND will probably be able to survey the landscape and pick the best conference for it's purposes. That may end up being the ACC, but I doubt if there is such a change in circumstances that ND would necessarily be required to do so.

 

[ctchamps]

I wasn't aware that pointing out that:

1) ND always told the BE that football would never join,

2) The BE was already an unequal revenue and hybrid conference prior to ND joining, and

3) The BE football schools were afraid to use the "card ", could not agree on a split, expansion and were looking to bail

= "Holier than Thou". My bad.

Regarding business, ND and the BE did exactly what they felt was necessary at the time. ND was in a strong position in football and needed a home for its olympic sports. The BE was new and needed cache. So they made a deal that was mutually beneficial.

What many of us are warning our ACC friends about is the combination of purely business attitude and arrogance that ND has towards other entities. There was a loose cultural federation of universities in the BE that was beginning to develop stronger bonds. Had any of a number of things taken place the BE could have reached the level of other conferences. Those included ESPN offering more in the way of $$, the BE bb and football schools resolving their enmity and/or ND offering to go all in the conference. Any of those plays and the BE would not be just a bunch of Catholic schools.

There was/is a stronger cultural federation of alliance in the ACC. It was the four North Carolina schools, Virginia, and Maryland. If someone included GT in this cultural mix I wouldn't argue. The remainder of the ACC is not nearly as strongly connected culturally. It is why the Maryland's defection hit the ACC so hard. It struck at the cultural underpinning of the conference. It is why the Maryland alumni are so angry. There is definitely a lot of division amongst the various power brokers in that university who are divided over cultural vs. financial issues. How the future plays out for that University and it relationship to the B!G is uncertain.

ND gives an increase financial benefit to the ACC. And it gives the ACC greater exposure nationally. This is offset by the attitude ND has towards everyone else. It wouldn't align itself with universities in it's geographical footprint. It wouldn't align itself with entities that were culturally similar, the Catholic schools. It will never align itself with schools that have a different geographic footprint and religious perspective.

ND was not entirely innocent in the BE's demise. The are very capable of playing the business game that benefits them. They astutely evaluated the disharmonies within the BE and they utilized those disharmonies to their advantage. It would be correct to state that the individuals who are making decisions at ND are astute business people. It would also be correct to say that ND is exploitive and is burning a lot of bridges.

Entities that are me, myself and I can benefit others but they can be very dangerous if people are unaware of their nature. So ACC be aware of what the B!G already knows! Delaney would offer Buffalo a bid before ND. And those ND alumni that love sports should be aware of the future as well. There could come a time when ND's actions will create a backlash that will relegate the University as a backwater in sports. Personally I think the individuals making decisions at ND either don't believe this or believe that they can always do a mea culpa and cause those animosities to change before the situation for them reaches this point. Maybe they can, but that is an equally dangerous stance as the ACC believing ND will help them relative to the other power conferences.

 

[FDNY99]

Here's the deal - whatever people think of the 3.6 mm people in CT, they mostly all are UConn fans and will watch UConn sports on cable (and demand that UConn sports be carried on their systems). That brings in the wealthiest portion of the NYC metro area and more to fray according to Mike Tranghese. (See Below) I am familiar with Buffalo - people will only watch SUNY Buffalo upon bribery, deep intoxication or a gun to their head. IMO, there will be zero following of SUNY Buffalo sports in NYC (and zero demand to add BTN to a cable system for SUNY sports).

Here's what Tranghese said:

Rutgers was accepted into the Big Ten last fall, with the widespread belief that the conference wanted a foothold in the New York metropolitan area. But while intending no disrespect to Rutgers, Tranghese said: “A lot of people don’t understand what makes New York tick. The two schools with the biggest impact in the New York market have been Syracuse and Connecticut.”

Is this true? Don't know for sure, but I have a multitude of friends in Fairfield County who are loyal, well-healed Husky fans and who follow the Huskies religiously.

Having grown up in eastern CT and now living in Port Chester NY right next to Greenwich..working in mid-town Manhattan..I can tell you that Rutgers and UCONN are the local schools that have NYC's attention. Rutgers has replaced Syracuse.

 

[Husky25]

I certainly agree. It is an intense mutual disdain and dislike.

In this case, though, it is not a good thing. That is why the "ND belongs in the Big Ten" crowd is dead wrong.

Other than being located in the Midwest, ND has nothing much in common with the Big Ten.

ND will not join the Big Ten, even though it could earn the most TV dollars and cut its travel costs the most by doing so.

The Big Ten is the absolute last place ND ever wants to be.

It thinks it will be "regionalized" there as a Midwest school.

Many of ND's students, fans and alumni and located in the Northeast. It wants Northeast exposure for that reason and Southeast exposure for recruiting and access to major markets there (Atlanta, Miami).

ND would be a bad fit in the Big Ten, being only one of two private schools in a huge, land grant public school conference.

ND believes that joining the Big Ten would place it under the thumb of Ohio State and especially Michigan (who rule the Big Ten), the latter school being considered the mortal enemy of ND.

ND doesn't want to join any conference in football. But, if it had to, it much prefers the ACC.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: You can kid yourself with all the demographic justification as you so choose, but the bottom line is the ACC gives Notre Dame 5 easier wins on average than the Big Ten would over have time. It's an easier route to the Playoff...period. They went from being affiliated with the "6th best" (Big East) conference to being affiliated with the 5th best conference. ND is like water in that respect. It will find the path of least resistance to relevancy, and who can blame them? It was afforded to them long ago...

 

[Exit 4]

quote]

Upstate NY -when including Orange and Putnam County as upstate NY (which is debatable) has something like 7 million people. Roughly 12MM of the states 19MM live in NYC, Rockland, Westchester, Suffolk and Nassau Counties.

 

[Dooley]

Wait...we still haven't reached the point of chaos?!?!?

An equally good point. I guess it depends on the tint and the shade of said tint of the glasses that you wear!

 

[whaler11]

You can bash ND all you like but they always play one of the toughest schedules in the country. They aren't ducking anyone.

 

[btstimpy]

Regarding business, ND and the BE did exactly what they felt was necessary at the time. ND was in a strong position in football and needed a home for its olympic sports. The BE was new and needed cache. So they made a deal that was mutually beneficial.

What many of us are warning our ACC friends about is the combination of purely business attitude and arrogance that ND has towards other entities. There was a loose cultural federation of universities in the BE that was beginning to develop stronger bonds. Had any of a number of things taken place the BE could have reached the level of other conferences. Those included ESPN offering more in the way of , the BE bb and football schools resolving their enmity and/or ND offering to go all in the conference. Any of those plays and the BE would not be just a bunch of Catholic schools.

There was/is a stronger cultural federation of alliance in the ACC. It was the four North Carolina schools, Virginia, and Maryland. If someone included GT in this cultural mix I wouldn't argue. The remainder of the ACC is not nearly as strongly connected culturally. It is why the Maryland's defection hit the ACC so hard. It struck at the cultural underpinning of the conference. It is why the Maryland alumni are so angry. There is definitely a lot of division amongst the various power brokers in that university who are divided over cultural vs. financial issues. How the future plays out for that University and it relationship to the B!G is uncertain.

ND gives an increase financial benefit to the ACC. And it gives the ACC greater exposure nationally. This is offset by the attitude ND has towards everyone else. It wouldn't align itself with universities in it's geographical footprint. It wouldn't align itself with entities that were culturally similar, the Catholic schools. It will never align itself with schools that have a different geographic footprint and religious perspective.

ND was not entirely innocent in the BE's demise. The are very capable of playing the business game that benefits them. They astutely evaluated the disharmonies within the BE and they utilized those disharmonies to their advantage. It would be correct to state that the individuals who are making decisions at ND are astute business people. It would also be correct to say that ND is exploitive and is burning a lot of bridges.

Entities that are me, myself and I can benefit others but they can be very dangerous if people are unaware of their nature. So ACC be aware of what the B!G already knows! Delaney would offer Buffalo a bid before ND. And those ND alumni that love sports should be aware of the future as well. There could come a time when ND's actions will create a backlash that will relegate the University as a backwater in sports. Personally I think the individuals making decisions at ND either don't believe this or believe that they can always do a mea culpa and cause those animosities to change before the situation for them reaches this point. Maybe they can, but that is an equally dangerous stance as the ACC believing ND will help them relative to the other power conferences.

ND has already helped the ACC. They have helped the ACC upgrade the ACC's bowl partner list. They have helped in making FSU happy and getting the GOR in place. The 3 ND football games in even years and 2 ND football games in odd years has added $1.5 million per year to each school. The GOR has added $2 million per year more to each school. ND being a nationally recognized brand makes an ACC Network more likely.

The only negative I see, and I hope it is only temporary, is that without fully joining in football, ND has the ACC in a holding pattern with 15 members in all sports and 14 in football. A 14 member league creates scheduling difficulty when it comes to playing the schools in the opposite division when you only have 8 games and a designated crossover. It will take 12 years to see the other teams at your home stadium. I don't like this. 16 members is much better. But if ND is to be one of the 16, the ACC has to sit in a holding pattern waiting on them. We'll do it for a while, but I don't like this longer term. If we go ahead and add 2 other schools, then we'll have to go to 20 eventually if ND decides to join.

 

[btstimpy]

Lol. Name one thing he got right about the Big Ten. You're absolutely right he knows nothing about ACC but he's batting zeros all around.

If you listen to E Gordon Gee, he doesn't get much right either as far as who will join the Big Ten. But E Gordon Gee does have visibility to what the Big Ten is thinking, and he has ties to that West Virginia bunch that Chris Lambert , the Dude of WV, is part of. Gee used to live in Morgantown, WV and is well known in that community.

 

[Sea Goat]

ND has already helped the ACC. They have helped the ACC upgrade the ACC's bowl partner list. They have helped in making FSU happy and getting the GOR in place. The 3 ND football games in even years and 2 ND football games in odd years has added $1.5 million per year to each school. The GOR has added $2 million per year more to each school. ND being a nationally recognized brand makes an ACC Network more likely.

The only negative I see, and I hope it is only temporary, is that without fully joining in football, ND has the ACC in a holding pattern with 15 members in all sports and 14 in football. A 14 member league creates scheduling difficulty when it comes to playing the schools in the opposite division when you only have 8 games and a designated crossover. It will take 12 years to see the other teams at your home stadium. I don't like this. 16 members is much better. But if ND is to be one of the 16, the ACC has to sit in a holding pattern waiting on them. We'll do it for a while, but I don't like this longer term. If we go ahead and add 2 other schools, then we'll have to go to 20 eventually if ND decides to join.

Beware of the Irish, they do things to suit themselves only. If they perceive an advantage elsewhere at the right moment they will drop you like a bad habit. I'm OK with that - but don't delude yourself into thinking that they will ever join the ACC unless the ACC can do more for them than they can do for the ACC.

 

[woomba]

If you listen to E Gordon Gee, he doesn't get much right either as far as who will join the Big Ten. But E Gordon Gee does have visibility to what the Big Ten is thinking, and he has ties to that West Virginia bunch that Chris Lambert , the Dude of WV, is part of. Gee used to live in Morgantown, WV and is well known in that community.

You need to prove the Dude's link to Gee - not why Gee would know something about conference realignment. His link to any credible sources, if any, stops at their secretary.

 

[btstimpy]

Beware of the Irish, they do things to suit themselves only. If they perceive an advantage elsewhere at the right moment they will drop you like a bad habit. I'm OK with that - but don't delude yourself into thinking that they will ever join the ACC unless the ACC can do more for them than they can do for the ACC.

I'm sort of used to schools doing things to suit themselves after being around North Carolina and Duke for so long. They do too. I don't see that as a big issue. Will I feel differently down the road? Who knows?

 

[btstimpy]

You need to prove the Dude's link to Gee - not why Gee would know something about conference realignment. His link to any credible sources, if any, stops at their secretary.

I don't have any taped conversations or email trails. But Gee's the only West Virginia guy I know in the Big Ten other than the coach of Michigan basketball, and Labert's alluded to his Ohio State Source before, not Michigan. You can believe as you wish.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

The Buffalo to the B1G is sheer lunacy.

Their athletic programs suck and they play in high school grade facilities.

We're talking about a bottom feeding MAC program that most everyone would be up in arms if they got an AAC invite and now people are talking them up to the B1G?

 

[upstater]

Wouldn't the 3m increase for 14 teams mean that ND Olympics and 2 or 3 of the games played in Acc football venues are worth 42 million? How'd you get to 4?

$20m in TV rights x .20% = $4m

 

[woomba]

I don't have any taped conversations or email trails. But Gee's the only West Virginia guy I know in the Big Ten other than the coach of Michigan basketball, and Labert's alluded to his Ohio State Source before, not Michigan. You can believe as you wish.

If Gee really wanted to spread random rumors to spread panic to another conference he could easily do so via more legit channels than twitter - that would be a heck lot more effective as well.