Non-Key Tweets

[GG]

Interesting. http://www.ubfan.com/board/index.php?topic=14175.msg162142#msg162142

 

[TerryD]

No problem. At least you get it now

No problem. At least you get it now

No, I don't.

 

[Sea Goat]

I wasn't aware that pointing out that:

1) ND always told the BE that football would never join,

2) The BE was already an unequal revenue and hybrid conference prior to ND joining, and

3) The BE football schools were afraid to use the "card ", could not agree on a split, expansion and were looking to bail

= "Holier than Thou". My bad.

You have a point of view and I respect that. I have to agree that ND only picked the BE because it allowed for flexibility in football. Heck most BE schools didn't even have flag football teams when ND became affiliated. ND got exactly what it wanted to get out of the BE, which was a home for its underachieving (Save Muffet's team) Olympic sports. In the end, the BE was reminiscent of the Holy Roman Empire and suffered a similar fate. (Good reference?) When it was time to skedaddle, ND didn't waste time.

I believe ND will only give up football independence at the point of a gun. The ACC was the only conference to let it come in on a limited basis and keep the big football money to itself. As far as I can tell, the ACC is the only conference that ever let any school have such a special status as a part time member. It is a system that will breed resentment because ND doesn't add squat to the ACC with its Olympic sports, yet it will be hauling in more money than any other member because of its special deal.

In my view, this will haunt the ACC. Perhaps, not initially, but as time goes by and ND doesn't make the playoffs every year and the VT's, FSU's and Clemson's do - it will get old. It will get old because those schools are going to have a hard time stomaching ND being paid more money and put on a pedestal by Swofford and his minions. You're probably right that ND is committed to the ACC for 5 games per year until the mid 20s, but that is probably coincident to the expiration of its separate NBC football contract (or will be). Why would it leave anyways? No other serious conference would let ND cherry pick as it has with the ACC. The only wild card is if the playoff system is changed by the forces of the SEC and/or B1G and require conference membership for playoff participation. I'll guarantee you ND has an out if that occurs and it won't be restricted to join the ACC.

 

[TerryD]

ND's worst case scenario is to be trapped into joining the Big Ten.

I don't think that non-ND fans understand the deep enmity that ND people have for that conference.

All of ND's moves since 1991 (NBC deal, BE deal, ACC deal) have been to stay out of the clutches of Jim Delany and his Big Ten ilk.

If ND football had to join a conference, it would be the ACC over the Big Ten.

ND alumni, fans and administrators would consider Big Ten membership a surrender and a disaster for ND.

 

[btstimpy]

What's ND basketball worth? The courts will have fun deciding that one. If bball rights are the reported 10-15% of the pie, ND would be out $2 million a year. Otherwise known as: peanuts. They are probably worth more than that. But the ACC is getting $17m per school. How much is the average school worth for bball?

The ACC is getting $20 million per school. The $17 million number was before Notre Dame joined and before the GOR. The Basketball is worth 20%.

 

[upstater]

The ACC is getting $20 million per school. The $17 million number was before Notre Dame joined and before the GOR. The Basketball is worth 20%.

So, $4m a year?

That's not nearly enough to dissuade ND.

I think Kyle is right on this one. If ND is forced to choose a conference because of D4, the GOR with the ACC does not prevent it from doing whatever the heck it wants.

 

[specialisthusky]

So, $4m a year?

That's not nearly enough to dissuade ND.

I think Kyle is right on this one. If ND is forced to choose a conference because of D4, the GOR with the ACC does not prevent it from doing whatever the heck it wants.

Wouldn't the 3m increase for 14 teams mean that ND Olympics and 2 or 3 of the games played in Acc football venues are worth 42 million? How'd you get to 4?

 

[billybud]

What the ACC got from Notre Dame was five football games a year.....matches good for exposure (when is the last time an Irish game was not televised?).

This bolsters the scheduling which may become important as more conferences go to 9 game conference schedules.

In 2014..this gives FSU a slate of Oklahoma State, Notre Dame, and Florida in OOC.

 

[billybud]

So, $4m a year?

That's not nearly enough to dissuade ND.

I think Kyle is right on this one. If ND is forced to choose a conference because of D4, the GOR with the ACC does not prevent it from doing whatever the heck it wants.

The ACC has a separate contract with Notre Dame that stipulates that iof the Irish joim a conference before 2027, it will be the ACC.

A suit for breach would result in claims for huge damages. It ain't going to happen, anyway.

 

[Exit 4]

Interesting. http://www.ubfan.com/board/index.php?topic=14175.msg162142#msg162142

Yes, interesting indeed. Buffalo Lion is certainly our most articulate and supportive 'non-fan' message board booster. As for SUNY Buffalo, yes - it has size and AAU status, but hard to see the B1G going down that rabit hole in the end. Unlike most states, NY's regional interests have competed and diluted the state brand across all big four university campuses and smaller colleges in the system. While I could see the B1G overlooking the lack of athletic accomplishments, its hard to ignore the state's long history of mixed/tangled support for its schools. When you ask NYers about the SUNY system you'll get seven different answers about which school is the flagship and I dont think there is any real will in state politics to change that. In other words, if I were the B1G, I wouldnt want a school which doesnt have clear political support/policy to be the state's flagship.

 

[woomba]

Yes, interesting indeed. Buffalo Lion is certainly our most articulate and supportive 'non-fan' message board booster. As for SUNY Buffalo, yes - it has size and AAU status, but hard to see the B1G going down that rabit hole in the end. Unlike most states, NY's regional interests have competed and diluted the state brand across all big four university campuses and smaller colleges in the system. While I could see the B1G overlooking the lack of athletic accomplishments, its hard to ignore the state's long history of mixed/tangled support for its schools. When you ask NYers about the SUNY system you'll get seven different answers about which school is the flagship and I dont think there is any real will in state politics to change that. In other words, if I were the B1G, I wouldnt what a school which doesnt have clear political support/policy to be the state's flagship.

He's probably the one who fed the Dude the info - he's been hyping that up for over a year now but there's too many factors working against it to make it a plausible target.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

ND's worst case scenario is to be trapped into joining the Big Ten.

I don't think that non-ND fans understand the deep enmity that ND people have for that conference.

All of ND's moves since 1991 (NBC deal, BE deal, ACC deal) have been to stay out of the clutches of Jim Delany and his Big Ten ilk.

If ND football had to join a conference, it would be the ACC over the Big Ten.

ND alumni, fans and administrators would consider Big Ten membership a surrender and a disaster for ND.

I live out here in Midwest retirementville.
I can tell you my B1G fans friends feel the same way about ND
In sports hatred is a good thing.
Its like Yanks and Sox.

 

[btstimpy]

So, $4m a year?

That's not nearly enough to dissuade ND.

I think Kyle is right on this one. If ND is forced to choose a conference because of D4, the GOR with the ACC does not prevent it from doing whatever the heck it wants.

If ND is forced to join or chooses to join a conference for football between now and 2026-2027, it has to be the ACC by contract. There is no alternative conference available to Notre Dame until 2026-2027. If you ask anyone associated with Notre Dame, they are perfectly comfortable with this. They do not wish to join fully at this point in time, but understand where they will join if they have to.

 

[Husky25]

Besides Academics, what does Buffalo really bring to the table. To quote Coach Winters from The Program, "Yeah, but when was the last time 80,000 people showed up to watch a kid do a damm chemistry experiment? Why don't you stick the bow-tie up your ?"

UConn certainly has more to offer and has a higher ceiling. Nationally recognized athletics, tremendous state gov't support, increasing academia prestige and can complete the delivery of the an attentive portion of the largest TV market in the country. Buffalo can offer a contiguous state. Why that is important, I don't know.

Say all you want about TV markets and DMAs, Massachusetts, New York, and New Jersey are all pretty much professional sports markets, where college and amateur sports are an after thought. Connecticut brings attentive viewers of the college, amateur, and minor leagues. Of course this is my impression more than based on anything really concrete...

 

[btstimpy]

Besides Academics, what does Buffalo really bring to the table. To quote Coach Winters from The Program, "Yeah, but when was the last time 80,000 people showed up to watch a kid do a damm chemistry experiment? Why don't you stick the bow-tie up your ?"

UConn certainly has more to offer and has a higher ceiling. Nationally recognized athletics, tremendous state gov't support, increasing academia prestige and can complete the delivery of the an attentive portion of the largest TV market in the country. Buffalo can offer a contiguous state. Why that is important, I don't know.

Say all you want about TV markets and DMAs, Massachusetts, New York, and New Jersey are all pretty much professional sports markets, where college and amateur sports are an after thought. Connecticut brings attentive viewers of the college, amateur, and minor leagues. Of course this is my impression more than based on anything really concrete...

The ability for the Big Ten Network to extort more money from the Cable Boxes that Time Warner Cable has in that part of New York State. It's the same thing they are looking for with Rutgers and Maryland. SUNY Buffalo's AAU status gets past the screeners on the Big Ten Council of Presidents.

 

[Husky25]

The ability for the Big Ten Network to extort more money from the Cable Boxes that Time Warner Cable has in that part of New York State. It's the same thing they are looking for with Rutgers and Maryland. SUNY Buffalo's AAU status gets past the screeners on the Big Ten Council of Presidents.

Neither cows, nor the farmers and cowboys who tend to them are big cable tv subscribers.

 

[specialisthusky]

The ability for the Big Ten Network to extort more money from the Cable Boxes that Time Warner Cable has in that part of New York State. It's the same thing they are looking for with Rutgers and Maryland. SUNY Buffalo's AAU status gets past the screeners on the Big Ten Council of Presidents.

Just because a team from NY is on a network does nut mean the population is going to pay for it. The big ten is going to learn thus with NJ soon. If psu could not get full rates in Philly/SJ ru is not going to deliver North Jersey and NYC.

Heck last time I drove through the city I heard a commercial that time Warner is dropping showtime and CBS. Yet NYC is going to increase its TV fees for University of Buffalo?

 

[Sea Goat]

The ability for the Big Ten Network to extort more money from the Cable Boxes that Time Warner Cable has in that part of New York State. It's the same thing they are looking for with Rutgers and Maryland. SUNY Buffalo's AAU status gets past the screeners on the Big Ten Council of Presidents.

You had me believing for awhile. But you have lost it!

 

[btstimpy]

He's probably the one who fed the Dude the info - he's been hyping that up for over a year now but there's too many factors working against it to make it a plausible target.

The Dude gets his information from E. Gordon Gee, former President of West Virginia University. Soon to be former President of The Ohio State University. Does he talk with BuffaloLion? Maybe. But most of what he gets comes from Ohio State. He's not very well tapped into the ACC. I can assure you. But he has some good sources in the Big Ten.

 

[btstimpy]

You had me believing for awhile. But you have lost it!

I don't think SUNY Buffalo is a good choice myself. But I can understand why the Big Ten might. AAU and Cable Boxes in a big state. It fits their model perfectly.

 

[FDNY99]

The one thing CT can boast is that when SNY started carrying UCONN sports they were able to get a pretty high suscriber fee based on fans asking for their cable system to carry the channel. Same thing with the BTN...if the B1G dream ever came true having the BTN in CT would be like having a dedicated UCONN sports station. They broadcast a lot of sports year 'round. And for that UCONN fans will be willing to pay a pretty penny.

 

[TerryD]

I live out here in Midwest retirementville.

I can tell you my B1G fans friends feel the same way about ND"

In sports hatred is a good thing.

Its like Yanks and Sox.

I certainly agree. It is an intense mutual disdain and dislike.

In this case, though, it is not a good thing. That is why the "ND belongs in the Big Ten" crowd is dead wrong.

Other than being located in the Midwest, ND has nothing much in common with the Big Ten.

ND will not join the Big Ten, even though it could earn the most TV dollars and cut its travel costs the most by doing so.

The Big Ten is the absolute last place ND ever wants to be.

It thinks it will be "regionalized" there as a Midwest school.

Many of ND's students, fans and alumni and located in the Northeast. It wants Northeast exposure for that reason and Southeast exposure for recruiting and access to major markets there (Atlanta, Miami).

ND would be a bad fit in the Big Ten, being only one of two private schools in a huge, land grant public school conference.

ND believes that joining the Big Ten would place it under the thumb of Ohio State and especially Michigan (who rule the Big Ten), the latter school being considered the mortal enemy of ND.

ND doesn't want to join any conference in football. But, if it had to, it much prefers the ACC.

 

[btstimpy]

Just because a team from NY is on a network does nut mean the population is going to pay for it. The big ten is going to learn thus with NJ soon. If psu could not get full rates in Philly/SJ ru is not going to deliver North Jersey and NYC.

Heck last time I drove through the city I heard a commercial that time Warner is dropping showtime and CBS. Yet NYC is going to increase its TV fees for University of Buffalo?

I think you are right. But the Big Ten thinks that they can, and they convinced Dr. Wallace Loh at the University of Maryland that they can. That is explicitly why they added Rutgers and Maryland. Cable Boxes. A secondary reason was to appease Penn State with eastern schools.

I don't think SUNY Buffalo would have an affect on NYC, but it might in much of the rest of New York State. There are a lot of cable boxes in New York State. Now the Big Ten needs to be smart enough to know that SUNY Buffalo without any athletic tradition or history would be a development effort in football and basketball. But if the BTN can get the cable boxes? Who knows. SUNY Buffalo could hire some high profile coaches and build programs.

This is the downside of thinking like a Cable Network rather than an Athletic Conference.

 

[Dooley]

If adding Buffalo makes UCONN contiguous (I agree, I have no idea why a 16 mile gap between NJ and CT is important but whatever), then I'm all for it. One less hurdle for UCONN going B1G!

 

[Sea Goat]

I don't think SUNY Buffalo is a good choice myself. But I can understand why the Big Ten might. AAU and Cable Boxes in a big state. It fits their model perfectly.

Here's the deal - whatever people think of the 3.6 mm people in CT, they mostly all are UConn fans and will watch UConn sports on cable (and demand that UConn sports be carried on their systems). That brings in the wealthiest portion of the NYC metro area and more to fray according to Mike Tranghese. (See Below) I am familiar with Buffalo - people will only watch SUNY Buffalo upon bribery, deep intoxication or a gun to their head. IMO, there will be zero following of SUNY Buffalo sports in NYC (and zero demand to add BTN to a cable system for SUNY sports).

Here's what Tranghese said:

Rutgers was accepted into the Big Ten last fall, with the widespread belief that the conference wanted a foothold in the New York metropolitan area. But while intending no disrespect to Rutgers, Tranghese said: “A lot of people don’t understand what makes New York tick. The two schools with the biggest impact in the New York market have been Syracuse and Connecticut.”

Is this true? Don't know for sure, but I have a multitude of friends in Fairfield County who are loyal, well-healed Husky fans and who follow the Huskies religiously.