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Non-Key Tweets

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If the Big12 falls apart, Uconn may be stuck in a slightly better league made up of the Big12 leftovers not going to BIG or Pac... Iowa St., K-State, Baylor, Texas Tech, TCU, and WVU...

At that point, its Big4 and the 5th should just grab the best programs:
BYU, Boise, Houston, TCU, WVU, Cincy, Temple, Uconn, USF, UCF, Memphis, K-State, Baylor and Texas Tech...


There is an opportunity for UConn to go B1G if the Big 12 falls apart as long as Delany and the B1G presidents have the vision to take a risk on it and try to make it happen.

The B1G takes Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas placing them in the B1G west giving the B1G 17 schools and need for one additional school to even the divisions.

B1G west: Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin (5 "old" B1G schools) + Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas (4 "new" B1G schools from the west).

B1G east: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue (5 "old" B1G schools) + Maryland, Penn State, Rutgers, ? (4 "new" B1G schools from the east).

UConn is invited in this scenario given ACC GOR and your status as a basketball brand and opportunity for additional penetration into the NYC market for the BTN.

This scenario then provides for 3 football brands west (Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas) and 3 football brands east (Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State) providing "balance".

This is a concern at the moment with the future east/west B1G alignment. As the plan stands now, Nebraska will be the only brand in the B1G west compared to Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State in the B1G east.

This scenario also provides additional basketball brands (Kansas and UConn) to compete with the ACC as well as provide important inventory for the BTN.

A B1G conference consisting of these 18 teams could certainly be an outstanding end point.
 
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There is an opportunity for UConn to go B1G if the Big 12 falls apart as long as Delany and the B1G presidents have the vision to take a risk on it and try to make it happen.

The B1G takes Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas placing them in the B1G west giving the B1G 17 schools and need for one additional school to even the divisions.

B1G west: Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin (5 "old" B1G schools) + Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas (4 "new" B1G schools from the west).

B1G east: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue (5 "old" B1G schools) + Maryland, Penn State, Rutgers, ? (4 "new" B1G schools from the east).

UConn is invited in this scenario given ACC GOR and your status as a basketball brand and opportunity for additional penetration into the NYC market for the BTN.

This scenario then provides for 3 football brands west (Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas) and 3 football brands east (Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State) providing "balance".

This is a concern at the moment with the future east/west B1G alignment. As the plan stands now, Nebraska will be the only brand in the B1G west compared to Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State in the B1G east.

This scenario also provides additional basketball brands (Kansas and UConn) to compete with the ACC as well as provide important inventory for the BTN.

A B1G conference consisting of these 18 teams could certainly be an outstanding end point.
OK. You convinced us. We'll take it. :)
 

pj

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There is an opportunity for UConn to go B1G if the Big 12 falls apart as long as Delany and the B1G presidents have the vision to take a risk on it and try to make it happen.

The B1G takes Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas placing them in the B1G west giving the B1G 17 schools and need for one additional school to even the divisions.

B1G west: Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin (5 "old" B1G schools) + Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas (4 "new" B1G schools from the west).

B1G east: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue (5 "old" B1G schools) + Maryland, Penn State, Rutgers, ? (4 "new" B1G schools from the east).

UConn is invited in this scenario given ACC GOR and your status as a basketball brand and opportunity for additional penetration into the NYC market for the BTN.

That's what I think makes the most sense too. My concern would be that the Midwestern/plains state influence on the choice would be strong, in particular Texas and Oklahoma and Kansas would have a lot of influence on #18, and they might want to bring in Missouri to recreate the old Big XII rivalries. Missouri is AAU and a bigger state than Connecticut. If it had the opportunity to join the B1G with Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas, Missouri would probably say yes.

Like I said, I think entering New England and building mass in NYC would be more valuable for the B1G than adding Missouri, it would make the Rutgers and Maryland adds worth more and strengthen the Michigan/Ohio State/PSU brands, but I'm not sure that's how B1G presidents would see things.
 
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That's what I think makes the most sense too. My concern would be that the Midwestern/plains state influence on the choice would be strong, in particular Texas and Oklahoma and Kansas would have a lot of influence on #18, and they might want to bring in Missouri to recreate the old Big XII rivalries. Missouri is AAU and a bigger state than Connecticut. If it had the opportunity to join the B1G with Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas, Missouri would probably say yes.

Like I said, I think entering New England and building mass in NYC would be more valuable for the B1G than adding Missouri, it would make the Rutgers and Maryland adds worth more and strengthen the Michigan/Ohio State/PSU brands, but I'm not sure that's how B1G presidents would see things.

This is an understandable concern from the UConn perspective.

However, a couple of arguments one could make against inclusion of Missouri as the #18 team.

First, the B1G has passed on Missouri on multiple occasions.

Second, taking Missouri as #18 would require shifting one of Illinois or Northwestern into the B1G east since Wisconsin would prefer to be in division with Iowa and Minnesota. The B1G has indicated a willingness to split in state rivals based on the current (Illinois and Northwestern split) and future (Indiana and Purdue split) division alignments; however, if there is a way to keep in state rivals together I think that would be preferable. An additional issue with adding Missouri as #18 and into the B1G west is then you have 5 "new" B1G teams with 4 "old" B1G teams in a B1G west division. The balance obtained by the scenario I proposed for consideration, in which there are 5 "old" B1G teams and 4 "new" B1G teams in each division, would then be lost.

Third, would Missouri move from the SEC to the B1G if offered? As you understandably qualified "probably" but certainly not guaranteed. Administration, booster and fan anger toward the B1G from passing on them before could prevent a move. Access to SEC recruiting grounds and the prestige of being an SEC football team, albeit not top tier, could prevent a move. Anticipated revenue from the SEC network could prevent a move.

Of course, trying to understand how and why decisions are made by university leaders and conference commissioners is the challenge for all of us as we consider realignment. The scenario I proposed seems logical to me but could easily be shredded by anyone from other posters on this board to the very university leaders and conference commissioners who ultimately make the decision. Depending upon whose tweet you read there is no way in hell Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas will ever be in the B1G or all three are packing the moving vans for the B1G as we post.

I will say this. The statement in the article from Dennis Dodd and the series of tweets from the Dude of WV et al. come as no surprise to me. As Delany said with respect to B1G expansion being dead: "dead is a strong word". I think the interest for further expansion still exists in the B1G and imagine Delany would love to be able to accomplish this heading into negotiations for the new B1G media rights. However, a further expansion will only take place if the B1G can expand with universities it desires and believes will make it a better conference. Of course, there is a difference between what the B1G would like do and what is feasible given the current state of conference realignment and the GOR. That said, whenever I think about barriers to conference realignment such as GOR, exit fees, etc., I think back to this article.

http://sports.omaha.com/2013/04/22/realignment-expansion-not-out-of-the-question/#.Uf7ReVvD-Ul

Realignment, expansion not out of the question
Don’t slam the door on future college conference expansion and realignment just yet.
The trendy instant reaction Monday to news that members of the Atlantic Coast Conference agreed to a “grant of rights” clause for its television and media was that it would halt realignment.
By the schools “granting” media rights to the conference for 14 years, the theory is that it would be too costly for a school to change leagues because it wouldn’t have much of value to “carry” to a new league.
Several old friends in the business of college athletics I talked to Monday said they wouldn’t bet their own money on that.
These people — from conference offices and major-college athletic departments — all agreed that any number of lawyers would be delighted to challenge those deals in court.
The ACC, Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac-12 have such deals.
As one buddy with a wicked sense of humor said, “Do you really think Texas would sign up for something it couldn’t get out of?”
As a sidenote, two sources have told The World-Herald that the Big Ten has done prior “homework” on Oklahoma, Kansas and Vanderbilt among other schools who might some day be expansion targets.
The Big 12 grant-of-rights deal didn’t stop a look-see for OU and KU.
Besides a legal challenge, the potential future TV money available could still make it profitable for a school to move.
So what do you take from all this? When the most powerful people in college athletics want something, there are ways to do it, regardless of the contracts and paperwork in place.
 
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The Dude of WV@theDudeofWV3h
@NebGradDubDub @MarkBurrage Disney has control of ESPN’s Wallet & told them to hold off on ACC network & to not renew the LHN.

UTDrew6@UTDrew61h
@theDudeofWV @NebGradDubDub @MarkBurrage What do you mean "not renew LHN?" They signed a 20 yr agreement. Your take/source on UT is awful.

The Dude of WV@theDudeofWV56m
@UTDrew6 They have look-in windows built in.

The Dude of WV@theDudeofWV58m
@MarkBurrage the big appeal to ESPN was high school sports in Texas. Once that was nixed the LHN lost value to ESPN.
 
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sure, it works for me too. wouldn't love adding Texas so much if I were Wisc or even Penn St...or even Michigan.
@Have you followed UT's LACK of success with all that talent available? Texas myth knows no bounds!Their not exactly Alabama/LSU good in recent years!Mack Browns job is even on the line this year!No wonder midwesterners think so little of us in the NE...yet in the east the Texas myth lives on !!Of course there brand like ND's can overcome lack of onfield success indefinitely but they're not the "juggernaut" we think !
 
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UT won't recruit fringe players like the SEC teams and a few others. Hard to compete when LSU is next door poaching players.

@Have you followed UT's LACK of success with all that talent available? Texas myth knows no bounds!Their not exactly Alabama/LSU good in recent years!Mack Browns job is even on the line this year!No wonder midwesterners think so little of us in the NE...yet in the east the Texas myth lives on !!
 
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@Have you followed UT's LACK of success with all that talent available? Texas myth knows no bounds!Their not exactly Alabama/LSU good in recent years!Mack Browns job is even on the line this year!No wonder midwesterners think so little of us in the NE...yet in the east the Texas myth lives on !!

I've always considered Texas to be somewhat of an underachieving athletic department. Flagship of huge state. Fertile recruiting everywhere. Yet hoops has done nothing ever, and football has one title in the last 45 years which Pete Carroll gifted to them.

I guess they have some good baseball history - will tip my 10-gallon hat to them for that one.
 
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@Have you followed UT's LACK of success with all that talent available? Texas myth knows no bounds!Their not exactly Alabama/LSU good in recent years!Mack Browns job is even on the line this year!No wonder midwesterners think so little of us in the NE...yet in the east the Texas myth lives on !!Of course there brand like ND's can overcome lack of onfield success indefinitely but they're not the "juggernaut" we think !

Come on! This gets so blown out of proportion. They won a national title with Vince Young at QB recently, and they played for another one and played respectable with Colt McCoy before he got hurt against Alabama. For comparison's sake when has your school had similar success? My school, never? Any school in the Big 10? The closest is Ohio State. They're not Alabama? Neither is anyone else right now. Texas Football is one of the "it" programs, and they know it.
 
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So, to summarize, there are two B1G questions should the consolidation of the P5 to the P4 under the D4 breakaway cause massive conference realignment (again) versus just some periphery adds/subtracts 1) will the B1G target the XII or the ACC, and 2) will the B1G go to 18 schools (2x divisions of 8 football – 9 conf games, 7 intra division, 2 intra-conference or) 20 schools (4x pods of 5 – 9 conf games, 4 division, 3 intra-pod, and 2 flex).

How does this help UConn?

If the B1G goes after Texas (which may have competing bids from PAC and SEC), UConn has a good chance as team #18 with #16 being Oklahoma (money outweighs AAU) and #17 Kansas (AAU, basketball). UConn would likely be competing with Missouri (history issues), and the unwanted little brothers (Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Texas Tech), all of whom have academic issues and maybe Baylor (#77 in US news, access to Texas, which could be good or bad depending how UT reacts).

If the B1G goes after the ACC and beats the SEC for some key pieces, UConn is likely out of luck if the B1G goes to just 18 schools as UNC #15 (AAU, brand name, basketball, academic [cough, cough]), UVA #16 (DC/VA market, AAU), G-Tech #17 (AAU, Atlanta market), and Florida State #18 (football, FL market) are likely the first four in. UConn would likely be competing with Duke, BC, Miami, in the east (somewhat good as none are public flagships), ND if they join, and possibly a fill-in such as Missouri and/or Kansas to appease the B1G’s western flank.
 

Exit 4

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Come on! This gets so blown out of proportion. They won a national title with Vince Young at QB recently, and they played for another one and played respectable with Colt McCoy before he got hurt against Alabama. For comparison's sake when has your school had similar success? My school, never? Any school in the Big 10? The closest is Ohio State. They're not Alabama? Neither is anyone else right now. Texas Football is one of the "it" programs, and they know it.
thanks for the perfect rebuttal.
 
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So, to summarize, there are two B1G questions should the consolidation of the P5 to the P4 under the D4 breakaway cause massive conference realignment (again) versus just some periphery adds/subtracts 1) will the B1G target the XII or the ACC, and 2) will the B1G go to 18 schools (2x divisions of 8 football – 9 conf games, 7 intra division, 2 intra-conference or) 20 schools (4x pods of 5 – 9 conf games, 4 division, 3 intra-pod, and 2 flex).

How does this help UConn?

If the B1G goes after Texas (which may have competing bids from PAC and SEC), UConn has a good chance as team #18 with #16 being Oklahoma (money outweighs AAU) and #17 Kansas (AAU, basketball). UConn would likely be competing with Missouri (history issues), and the unwanted little brothers (Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Texas Tech), all of whom have academic issues and maybe Baylor (#77 in US news, access to Texas, which could be good or bad depending how UT reacts).

If the B1G goes after the ACC and beats the SEC for some key pieces, UConn is likely out of luck if the B1G goes to just 18 schools as UNC #15 (AAU, brand name, basketball, academic [cough, cough]), UVA #16 (DC/VA market, AAU), G-Tech #17 (AAU, Atlanta market), and Florida State #18 (football, FL market) are likely the first four in. UConn would likely be competing with Duke, BC, Miami, in the east (somewhat good as none are public flagships), ND if they join, and possibly a fill-in such as Missouri and/or Kansas to appease the B1G’s western flank.

You could summarize by saying there are so many moving parts and possible outcomes that there is no sense trying to make sense of it all.
 
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Texas is like Notre Dame... they are out for themselves. I just don't see them being part of the pack in the B1G. That being said I would say this is a great power move for the B1G if it happens. Are we to believe that we are #16. I doubt it though a big football team would help pave the way for our school with less griping. The bigger question sfor Uconn fans is whether this alleged back door Texas may have can work for other schools. That will play a huge role in whether Uconn gets an invite or keeps waiting by the punch bowl. But if this to come to pass here are the options as I see it for the B1G and Big 12...

1. B1G goes to 16 with either Uconn and Vandy as the only non-GOR schools who fits the majority of the B1G profile.
2. B1G could take #16 of Uconn, Oklahoma, Kansas, or Vandy if GOR off the table for Big 12
3. B1G goes 18 with a combination of 3 of these 4 schools Vandy least likely since in good position with SEC. 9 team divisions good for football scheduling witha more clear east west divisional split)
4. Big 12 loses Oklahoma and Kansas to Pac12 for their own conference security
5. Big 12 takes a combo of teams from Cincy, UCF, USF, and even Temple (or a Uconn if not already taken to get to 12) They wont go more then 12.
6. ACC could but would never bring in West Virginia... unless they turn in what shred of soul they still have left.

It could work for us but what do I know... we keep getting screwed!

Vandy? Does B1G need another Northwestern?
 
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You could summarize by saying there are so many moving parts and possible outcomes that there is no sense trying to make sense of it all.

Out comes the anchor.
 
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Come on! This gets so blown out of proportion. They won a national title with Vince Young at QB recently, and they played for another one and played respectable with Colt McCoy before he got hurt against Alabama. For comparison's sake when has your school had similar success? My school, never? Any school in the Big 10? The closest is Ohio State. They're not Alabama? Neither is anyone else right now. Texas Football is one of the "it" programs, and they know it.
Yeah they are an "it" program but are they team players?The B1G is a conference whose best quality is everyones treated as an equal AND paid that way whereas for some reason Texas looks down on everybody whether justified or not!I'd prefer the Oklahoma type school except for there much smaller population and recruiting pool but at least no headache's with a complex state government complicating every move not pro-Texas and Deloss D expecting all kinds of concessions!I'd hope the B1G would weigh that heavily the next time the music play's!Even in my military years the Texan's all (most)seemed to have a superiority complex!!
 
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zzzzzz. Start a new thread please. I come here to have my fantasy life come together through the Dude (kind of like my thinking about my beautiful girlfriend of 20 years ago at work). If I feel like reading about the value of various programs, which does interest me, I would go to a thread about that school.
 

CL82

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This is an understandable concern from the UConn perspective.

However, a couple of arguments one could make against inclusion of Missouri as the #18 team.

First, the B1G has passed on Missouri on multiple occasions.

Second, taking Missouri as #18 would require shifting one of Illinois or Northwestern into the B1G east since Wisconsin would prefer to be in division with Iowa and Minnesota. The B1G has indicated a willingness to split in state rivals based on the current (Illinois and Northwestern split) and future (Indiana and Purdue split) division alignments; however, if there is a way to keep in state rivals together I think that would be preferable. An additional issue with adding Missouri as #18 and into the B1G west is then you have 5 "new" B1G teams with 4 "old" B1G teams in a B1G west division. The balance obtained by the scenario I proposed for consideration, in which there are 5 "old" B1G teams and 4 "new" B1G teams in each division, would then be lost.

Third, would Missouri move from the SEC to the B1G if offered? As you understandably qualified "probably" but certainly not guaranteed. Administration, booster and fan anger toward the B1G from passing on them before could prevent a move. Access to SEC recruiting grounds and the prestige of being an SEC football team, albeit not top tier, could prevent a move. Anticipated revenue from the SEC network could prevent a move.

Of course, trying to understand how and why decisions are made by university leaders and conference commissioners is the challenge for all of us as we consider realignment. The scenario I proposed seems logical to me but could easily be shredded by anyone from other posters on this board to the very university leaders and conference commissioners who ultimately make the decision. Depending upon whose tweet you read there is no way in hell Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas will ever be in the B1G or all three are packing the moving vans for the B1G as we post.

I will say this. The statement in the article from Dennis Dodd and the series of tweets from the Dude of WV et al. come as no surprise to me. As Delany said with respect to B1G expansion being dead: "dead is a strong word". I think the interest for further expansion still exists in the B1G and imagine Delany would love to be able to accomplish this heading into negotiations for the new B1G media rights. However, a further expansion will only take place if the B1G can expand with universities it desires and believes will make it a better conference. Of course, there is a difference between what the B1G would like do and what is feasible given the current state of conference realignment and the GOR. That said, whenever I think about barriers to conference realignment such as GOR, exit fees, etc., I think back to this article.

http://sports.omaha.com/2013/04/22/realignment-expansion-not-out-of-the-question/#.Uf7ReVvD-Ul

Realignment, expansion not out of the question
Don’t slam the door on future college conference expansion and realignment just yet.
The trendy instant reaction Monday to news that members of the Atlantic Coast Conference agreed to a “grant of rights” clause for its television and media was that it would halt realignment.
By the schools “granting” media rights to the conference for 14 years, the theory is that it would be too costly for a school to change leagues because it wouldn’t have much of value to “carry” to a new league.
Several old friends in the business of college athletics I talked to Monday said they wouldn’t bet their own money on that.
These people — from conference offices and major-college athletic departments — all agreed that any number of lawyers would be delighted to challenge those deals in court.
The ACC, Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac-12 have such deals.
As one buddy with a wicked sense of humor said, “Do you really think Texas would sign up for something it couldn’t get out of?”
As a sidenote, two sources have told The World-Herald that the Big Ten has done prior “homework” on Oklahoma, Kansas and Vanderbilt among other schools who might some day be expansion targets.
The Big 12 grant-of-rights deal didn’t stop a look-see for OU and KU.
Besides a legal challenge, the potential future TV money available could still make it profitable for a school to move.
So what do you take from all this? When the most powerful people in college athletics want something, there are ways to do it, regardless of the contracts and paperwork in place.

Right now it is a convenient fiction for conferences to treat GORs as ironclad, but it is a fiction, nonetheless. I don't think they'll give up the apparent stability they've created without significant value being generated by doing so. So my guess is you'll only see a GOR challenged for revolutionary, and not evolutionary, change. Just what that might be, I have no idea.
 
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Right now it is a convenient fiction for conferences to treat GORs as ironclad, but it is a fiction, nonetheless. I don't think they'll give up the apparent stability they've created without significant value being generated by doing so. So my guess is you'll only see a GOR challenged for revolutionary, and not evolutionary, change. Just what that might be, I have no idea.

With the B1G GOR expiring with the contract, could the B1G look to a different method for locking up the B1G teams. This would allow the B1G to challenge GOR without backlash. But, I think finding another method to lock up teams is unlikely because the GOR also doubles as a security blanket for TV contracts.
 
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You could summarize by saying there are so many moving parts and possible outcomes that there is no sense trying to make sense of it all.

But of course, which is why there is a board, to try and make sense of this, vent, conspire, drink even more…
 
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With the B1G GOR expiring with the contract, could the B1G look to a different method for locking up the B1G teams. This would allow the B1G to challenge GOR without backlash. But, I think finding another method to lock up teams is unlikely because the GOR also doubles as a security blanket for TV contracts.


The T1 TV contract is up in 2017, not the GoR.

Big Ten's GoR is auto-renewed on a rolling basis every 2-3 years for a ~20 year period or so. Jim Delany even made a joke once how he's not even sure when the current expiration date is because no one has checked up on it but I can't find the quote.
 
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With the B1G GOR expiring with the contract, could the B1G look to a different method for locking up the B1G teams. This would allow the B1G to challenge GOR without backlash. But, I think finding another method to lock up teams is unlikely because the GOR also doubles as a security blanket for TV contracts.
Unlike the ACC the B1G don't have to worry about team's leaving as the payouts and "no special status" or primadonna teams keep teams loyal!When was the last time a team been poached from the B1G ?Wishful thinking UPitt...thinking PSU?LOL !
 
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Unlike the ACC the B1G don't have to worry about team's leaving as the payouts and "no special status" or primadonna teams keep teams loyal!When was the last time a team been poached from the B1G ?Wishful thinking UPitt...thinking PSU?LOL !

Actually, I have never expected anyone to leave the B1G. But, most people have speculated that no one from a GOR conference would poach another GOR conference on principle. So, if the B1G used an alternative method to protect inventory, then they could more easily look at conferences with GORs in place. But if the B1G was so confident that no one would leave, then why have a GOR and brag about it.

And say what you want about ND, they bring in an additional 2-3 million per school per year as a partial member, and games against ND are always fun to attend. Although this deal likely hurts Pitt because ND was on the Pitt schedule just about every year. But I understand if you would prefer not to play ND, as Rutgers has really struggled against ND losing in all four meetings by scores of 48-0, 62-0, 45-17, and 42-0.
 
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A GoR is a necessity in order to have a proper conference network - it was originally created in order to facilitate the operations of BTN. This is the same reason why the Pac-12 also signed one.

The idea that a GoR can be used as a purely defensive move was first thought up by the B12 and later the ACC which is why they signed them despite them not having a conference network.

I fully expect SEC to announce one once they finish buying back all the T3 rights but maybe they don't need one because they have no ownership in the planned network and they already signed a contract with ESPN.

edit:expanded the post a bit
 

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