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SubbaBub
Your stupidity is ruining my country.
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Would be the minimal amount of credible if he addressed the Ok St issue or said Tx/OU or Missou/Vandy. Of course if he actuality said Missou/Vandy he'd be laughed off the internet.
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What are criteria the B1G has named:
- AAU. UConn is close, Oklahoma far, far away.
- Contiguous state. UConn is for all practical purposes contiguous, Oklahoma is not.
- Market size. UConn and Oklahoma are equal sized states but UConn brings penetration into New York and Massachusetts.
- Brand. UConn is a national basketball brand, Oklahoma a national football brand. Football is more valuable than basketball, but not by as much as people think.
If Oklahoma separates from Texas, Oklahoma's football plummets. So much is based on the Red River Rivalry and access to Texas recruiting grounds. Oklahoma is more valuable in the Big XII than in the B1G, unless Texas and Kansas come with it.
SubbaBub
Your stupidity is ruining my country.
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Nebraska would lobby for OU to the point of banging the table with a shoe. Iowa too.
For all the academic talk this is still predominantly about FB and if OU is available they're in. Forgetting for a second that if they are available it means Texas has already decided to go with them.
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For all the academic talk this is still predominantly about FB and if OU is available they're in. Forgetting for a second that if they are available it means Texas has already decided to go with them.
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Texas and Oklahoma have only been in the same conference for the past 20 years - the Red River Rivalry won't go away regardless of which team leaves the Big 12.
I do agree that there's very little in common between OU and Big Ten schools as academic institutions though....then again, Nebraska joined so there's that.
I do agree that there's very little in common between OU and Big Ten schools as academic institutions though....then again, Nebraska joined so there's that.
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I would agree, the B1G would put aside AAU (FYI, US news has Michigan #29, Texas #46, Ohio St #56, UConn #63, Oklahoma #101, Oklahoma St #139, Texas Tech #165) in a heartbeat for the money that Oklahoma and Texas would bring. The big questions is 1) would Texas be willing to share control with Ohio St, Michigan, etc. for the B1G World and 2) would the B1G be willing to take on Texas Tech and Oklahoma State for political reasons as part of the package.
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- Oklahoma is exempt of the AAU requirement. Just as Nebraska was (remember the B1G presidents cast the deciding votes against Nebraska). Just as ND is. No other schools are.
- Uconn and Oklahoma may have equal sized states, and Uconn may draw parts of NYC and Boston, but you forgot to mention that Oklahoma draws from every city and state. Mich, Neb, OSU, PSU, Wisky, Iowa vs Oklahoma are all national games.
- Football is about 10x more valuable than basketball, at least per the TV contracts.
Oh, and we are talking about OKLAHOMA. They are one of only a few teams that have an unofficial open invite to join any conference they desire.
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100% agree here...UCONN hoops is great but vs OU football it's a no brainer. Football drives the bus and OU football is blue blood so...doesn't take much to figure that one out. If you look at ratings regular season football games far exceed regular season bball bball games. Heck even crappy lower bowls draw comparable if not better tv ratings than say duke/unc in hoops. The only thing bball has that draws huge ratings in is March Madness...and that's it.
Really the lack of "getting it" concerning the importance of football vs basketball is what doomed the BE...imo anyway.
Look at the last BE expansion. Cincy wasn't invited to the BE because of hoops; the BE didn't need Cincy hoops. We got in becasue of football. In our case at that time, it was the potential of football, but football none the less. UC was taken over Memphis. Why? Cincy had made a large investment to football (Varsity Village) and Memphis didn't. Look at today...why is UC spending 80 mil to upgrade and expand Nippert? Because they hope to get an invite to a P5 conference. In fact our AD Whit Babcock (came from Mizzou) was told by the B12 if we do this Nippert expansion/upgrade and keep winning in football it should "be enough" to get in.
So if you have a choice of taking OU football or UCONN hoops you pick OU football 100 times out of a 100.
Not a knock on UCONN...I root for you guys being in same conference and all and think you deserve a P5 invite along with UC. Just my input...
We can agree re: deserving a P-5 invite. If Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, BC "deserved" a P-5 invite then we sure as hell do too!
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PJ is a good uconn fan. We need more like him, from time to time we all overstate the value of our team/program regardless of who our team/program is. Like upitt said above, there is a reason nebraska was grabbed ahead of umd/ru the first time. Anytime you can grab a truly premium football brand you do it.
All that said, OU is in GOR bind, we are not. Fun to speculate but I'm not packing suitcases to big 10 towns anytime soon.
All that said, OU is in GOR bind, we are not. Fun to speculate but I'm not packing suitcases to big 10 towns anytime soon.
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Except the Pac10.
The Pac10 didn't want them.
And not because of Okie St.
Oh, and the B1G doesn't want them either.
Just curious, how are you so sure that the B1G doesn't want Oklahoma? I am not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking for your insight.
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Outside of Louisville in what world is newcomer in D1FB UConn more worthy of P-5 than the rest of the schools who all offer something unique (Market,history,cache)to a major conference? Just curious!!It takes more than 10 years of mediocre bigboy football to those conferences outside of our east coast bubble!Some of those hicks couldn't pick Connecticut out on a map!Just look at frankthetanks perception (and he's educated) of us!!
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If Seagoat had said "as worthy" it would have seemed a reasonable post!!But "more worthy"???
Where did he say "more worthy"? You used the phrase "more worthy".
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@I have to reread the post....I absorbed it as "belonging ahead of"?
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I see it now(as worthy)...my mistake jostar !!
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Believe me I certainly think UConn is gonna get the next B1G call if they can find a partner but I think the ACC always changes their standards when it comes to UConn and don't have any faith in them! Nor do I trust them!
I respect PJ as well. He just about always puts things into a good perspective and I respect him for taking a fair minded approach. I just disagree with his opinion on Oklahoma, and this may be due to our different backgrounds. I grew up in Pittsburgh, PA with no NBA team and a couple weak college BB teams. For most of my region (western PA, Eastern OH, WV) it was football, football, football. Football was year round and High Schools football games would routinely draw larger crowds than college BB. I respect that much of CT/NYC/NE and Uconn fans put a larger emphasis on BB than some of the other regions. Uconn's success in BB is why I have followed Uconn and respect the newly developed rivalry between Pitt and Uconn. Maybe it is a cultural difference between myself (and Frank and a few others from the midwest) and many of the Uconn fans that live in the NE, but I honestly think that some of the Uconn posters are short sighted when sighting BB and WBB as the reasons that Uconn will and should be invited to join the P5 while downplaying the importance of football. I agree that BB has had an influence in realignment with the ACC and NBE, but in general football has trumped BB due to the structure of TV contracts (10 to 1, football to BB money). I think many Uconn posters fail to give the Uconn football program the credit it deserves with respect to realignment because they feel BB is a stronger talking point. Uconn took big strides in 10 years of BE football and has put the school in a position to receive and invite to the P5. Without these big strides, Uconn may have considered joining the NBE and dumping football in CUSA, or MAC or DII. Instead we are discussing Uconn joining the B1G and ACC which would have been a pipe dream only 10 years ago, but seems more likely than not today. I would like nothing more than to see Uconn in the ACC because I enjoy watching the BB games. I would also welcome them to the B1G as well, although I would be disappointed personally because they would lose a few rivals in the ACC.
NN,
Read my post - I don't say "more worthy" and I was responding to Bearcat so I was thinking Cincy too. To be clear, if the schools I listed "deserve" a P-5 nod then UConn and Cincy do too. That's it - no more, no less.
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I wasn't stating a value in the sense most here may be thinking of it. Agreed, Oklahoma football is worth a great deal. But how much of B1G expansion decisions are driven by the monetary value of football, and how much by other criteria (contiguity for cultural and geographic stability and rivalries; AAU - collaboration for mutual research support; year-round content for the BTN; large markets to bring increased exposure and value of Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, etc)? The relative weights are not completely clear, but the B1G has made it clear that all of the other factors matter. While other conferences like the ACC, SEC, and B12 seem to value football above all else, the B1G has taken a broader view due to its significant BTN revenues and its emphasis on cultural compatibility and cooperation above and beyond athletics.
Using the stated B1G criteria, Oklahoma as a lone entrant, without Missouri or Kansas to provide geographic continuity, is not a fit for stated B1G criteria. Nebraska is not a good model because it was contiguous to B1G states and also is a stronger research (near-AAU) institution. Moreover, Nebraska has not set the world on fire since joining the B1G. I think you have to wonder if that national football brand may decline with a move from a southern/regional conference with great recruiting grounds to a northern conference with weaker recruiting grounds. Loss of geographical contiguous opponents would certainly diminish rivalries and diminish local Oklahoma fan interest.
The B1G has been very cautious about expansion that might jeopardize its culture. I think to take Oklahoma, they would need Kansas or Texas, maybe Missouri, but that's doubtful. Whereas to take UConn, they only need a good #16 from anywhere in the country. AAU is the only major hurdle for us, and even that would probably not be necessary if our football program were stronger.
Yes, Oklahoma is an attractive school no doubt, in the right mix of additions. But Oklahoma + Oklahoma State - Kansas/Texas/Missouri is not a good add for the B1G. Oklahoma alone without Kansas Texas or Missouri is not a good add according to the B1G's stated criteria.