New Gampel Court Design

[aceboon]

This is not my theory. This is right from Calhoun's mouth. Kids judge a program based on the chance they have of getting to the NBA. You're right, Boat and Bazz's draft status doesn't matter as much as they are on an NBA roster for openning night of the regular season, the Autumn following leaving school (by either declaring early, or by graduation.)

17 year olds don't care about endowment. They care about how often they will be on TV, if they will make the Tournament, and if the coach's system will allow them to showcase their talent. These kids are absolutely thinking that far ahead. As a college sports fan, I want them thinking like that. I hope they have that much confidence in their game. I want them to have as much as possible so long as it stops just below the point of arrogance...

I understand all of that mumbo jumbo about kids wanting to attend a program that puts guys in the NBA, my point was in reference to Bazz and Boat being 1st round picks(when noone is expecting that) or Samuel, when time will tell if he projects to be a rotation player or a legit starter. UConn can remain relevant without Bazz & Boat being 1st round picks, or Samuel becoming an NBA player. Louisiville has been relevant under Pitino both in terms of on court success and on the recruiting trail and they really haven't put much in the NBA at all during his entire tenure there.

 

[UConnJim]

College basketball success = coaching. Denny Crum had a great career at Louisville, but his last 4 years at Louisville were 62-62 and Pitino came in and righted the ship.

The AAC has schools that can be good with the right coach..Memphis has been off and on good depending on the coach. Houston was good under Guy Lewis and they have struggled to find a replacement since. Cincinnati is a historically good program that went almost a decade of sub 0.500 basketball. Then they hired Bob Huggins and bounced back. Tulsa has had some very good coaches: Nolan Richardson, Tubby Smith, and Bill Self. From 1981 to 2003, Tulsa made 13 NCAA tourney appearances (11 victories) and 5 NIT appearances with 2 NIT championships.

 

[Husky25]

the bottom line here is that we can be a good mid-major. We probably will be. But over time it will be tougher and tougher to be relevant, to keep a pipeline of top players coming and to stay near the top with the real power conferences. If I were a betting man, I'd say Louisville is far more likely to get deep into the NCAA tournament on a regular basis than UConn is over the next decade, assuming we both stay in the leagues we're in. the odds of them remaining a national power are hugely higher than that we will. We'll become what Louisville was between 1990 and 2005,one of those tough out mid-majors with a punchers chance to get to the Final Four in our best seasons. You can list a bunch of schools in the same catagory. Memphis is one. Gonzaga, Butler, Wichita State, maybe to a lesser extent Xavier, Temple and VCU. With the new leagues I think Marquette, Georgetown and us and Cincy get added to that list since both the AAC and Biggish East are more or less comparable now. But now the argument has changed entirely. Its no longer is UConn one of the elite programs like UNC, Duke, etc. The new question is are we one of the top mid-majors? And can we remain one long term?

The Big East is definitely reverting to Mid-Major over the next decade in my opinion. The AAC (I am having a hard time calling it The American) at least sponsors FBS football. That alone keeps the AAC a notch ahead of the traditional Mid-Majors. I agree with what was said above, Major vs. Mid-Major status is really more about athletic budget rather than what conference a school is in.

 

[freescooter]

You didn't respond to the recruiting portion of my post. How does the fact that Rodney Purvis and Daniel Hamilton agreed to come to Uconn despite our conference situation play into your doomsday scenario?

Well I did though probably not directly. As I've said this won't be a fall off the cliff scenario. More like a gradual slide. But despite the hogwash Mike Aresco is giving you, we won't the same exposure. We will be playing in half empty arenas for most of our league games. (Outside the "big 4" the average for the league is under 4000/game. Some draw under 2500! And it isn't like UConn fans can go to Tulane or SMU to sell the place out like they did at Conte or the Garden. For that matter how many are going to Gampel for Tulane and SMU?). If we get highly seeded people will be complaining that UConn is over-rated because they played such a lousy schedule then if we don't get deep it will be confirmed. Over time all that stuff will take a toll. And we really don't know for sure if Kevin Ollie can coach yet on top of it all. it didn't collapse last year which is a big positive, but this year it is experienced, talented and still in a more or less legitimate conference, so he really needs to deliver. And hey, the guy at Memphis recruits like a son of a gun. How many titles do they have?

 

[Husky25]

I understand all of that mumbo jumbo about kids wanting to attend a program that puts guys in the NBA, my point was in reference to Bazz and Boat being 1st round picks(when noone is expecting that) or Samuel, when time will tell if he projects to be a rotation player or a legit starter. UConn can remain relevant without Bazz & Boat being 1st round picks, or Samuel becoming an NBA player. Louisiville has been relevant under Pitino both in terms of on court success and on the recruiting trail and they really haven't put much in the NBA at all during his entire tenure there.

Isn't that the point? Ray Allen was heavily recruited out of S.C. and Rip out of PA, but how heavily was Travis Knight recruited? Jake Voskul? Donny Marshall (who came here all the way from Seattle)? The success of these guys draws the attention of the Okafors, Gordons, Williams', Robinsons, Dysons, and Walkers of the world who grow up behind them.

No one expected Bazz or Boat to be a 1st rounder this year (or even drafted), but doesn't that change upon leading a team deep in the tournament? Don't they at least get a look?

 

[freescooter]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.cgi?college=louisville
http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/colleges.cgi?college=uconn

Denny Crum coach 28 future NBA'ers
Jim Calhoun coached 27 (By my count)

The difference is that Crum's rate of putting players in the NBA seemed to slowed as he aged, while Calhoun's stayed relatively consistent. For a while, Crum could only point to "Never Nervous" Pervis Ellison. Plus they were hit with sactions twice in the 90's. Crum "retired" in 2001.

That's not exactly a complete comparison though for several reasons. One is the size of the league. The NBA of the early 1970s was ranged from 9 to 18 teams and got to 22 around 1980, I think. And "getting to the league" wasn't the same motivator then that it is today. Remember this is a league that came fairly close to bankruptcy and was talking about reducing franchises in the late 70s. That is a more recent phenomenon. Players didn't come out of high school planning to go to the NBA in a year during the 1970s or 80s. Patrick Ewing played 4 years at Georgetown in the mid-1980s. Bird played his senior year at Indiana State despite being drafted by the Celtics after his Junior season, which was allowed by both NBA and NCAA rules at the time. So although they overlapped, Crum was coaching in a different era in terms of motivating recruits for the first half of his career.

 

[Waquoit]

the bottom line here is that we can be a good mid-major. We probably will be. But over time it will be tougher and tougher to be relevant, to keep a pipeline of top players coming and to stay near the top with the real power conferences.

You don't know that. Didn't we just read that conferences don't carry as much sway as they did just a few years ago? Other factors come in to play.

We are at a 30-year nadir as far as conference affiliation goes and we just recruited 2 top guys. And UConn is line for a few more. It looks like we will be good for the next 4 or 5 years. That's a lifetime in college basketball. After that, no one knows nothing, including you.

And to make it all about winning titles is just plain unrealistic. Winning titles is hard, so is making Final Fours. The best you can hope for from your team is to be consistently in the mix. It looks like that's where will be for for the forseeable future. I'm gonna keep going to games and having a good time.

 

[Husky25]

That's not exactly a complete comparison though for several reasons. One is the size of the league. The NBA of the early 1970s was ranged from 9 to 18 teams and got to 22 around 1980, I think. And "getting to the league" wasn't the same motivator then that it is today. Remember this is a league that came fairly close to bankruptcy and was talking about reducing franchises in the late 70s. That is a more recent phenomenon. Players didn't come out of high school planning to go to the NBA in a year during the 1970s or 80s. Patrick Ewing played 4 years at Georgetown in the mid-1980s. Bird played his senior year at Indiana State despite being drafted by the Celtics after his Junior season, which was allowed by both NBA and NCAA rules at the time. So although they overlapped, Crum was coaching in a different era in terms of motivating recruits for the first half of his career.

Crum and Calhoun's career overlapped for 18 out of Calhoun's 30 years. If you read my whole post (or saw the interview), you'll notice I said his original recruiting methkd focused on selling the league. What this proves is that Crum was out of touch later in his career and had limited success coming off probation. Anyway you look at it, that's on Coach Crum more than in what league which Louisville competed.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[upstater]

Crum and Calhoun's career overlapped for 18 out of Calhoun's 30 years. If you read my whole post (or saw the interview), you'll notice I said his original recruiting methkd focused on selling the league. What this proves is that Crum was out of touch later in his career and had limited success coming off probation. Anyway you look at it, that's on Coach Crum more than in what league which Louisville competed.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

He was creepy looking too.

 

[HooperScooper]

According to Dave Telep of ESPN.com (formerly head of Scout) there is no reason UConn can't recruit at a high level. Says conference affiliation doesn't mean anything to today's recruits. I would add that they need to keep winning to attract recruits. But good recruits help to win. So basically they just need to keep doing what they've been doing. But of course freescooter is more plugged into today's recruits than Telep so he knows more.

9. Conference affiliation won’t matter
Realignment is difficult to follow. Even if you’re in the business, you need a reference sheet. Imagine being a recruit. Some unscientific research this spring yielded this conclusion: Recruits no longer care about conference affiliation. They’re making college decisions based on two factors. First, players want to know how and how fast the coach can get them to the NBA. Second, they want a strong relationship with the head coach. The elite players are considering development and the NBA, not conference affiliation. When is the last time you heard a top-25 prospect say the deciding factor was the league? It’s not happening.

10 things to know about the 2014 class (ESPN Insider's article)

 

[Husky25]

According to Dave Telep of ESPN.com (formerly head of ) there is no reason UConn can't recruit at a high level. Says conference affiliation doesn't mean anything to today's recruits. I would add that they need to keep winning to attract recruits. But good recruits help to win. So basically they just need to keep doing what they've been doing. But of course freescooter is more plugged into today's recruits than Telep so he knows more.

9. Conference affiliation won’t matter
Realignment is difficult to follow. Even if you’re in the business, you need a reference sheet. Imagine being a recruit. Some unscientific research this spring yielded this conclusion: Recruits no longer care about conference affiliation. They’re making college decisions based on two factors. First, players want to know how and how fast the coach can get them to the NBA. Second, they want a strong relationship with the head coach. The elite players are considering development and the NBA, not conference affiliation. When is the last time you heard a top-25 prospect say the deciding factor was the league? It’s not happening.

10 things to know about the 2014 class (ESPN Insider's article)

I can't like or agree with this more. Finally some corroboration. I guess a 3-time national Champion Hall-of-Fame Coaching Legend is not a good enough source on his own.

 

[freescooter]

maybe its true if we still had a hall of fame head coach. We don't. And I agree that at the moment recruits are likely to be a bit confused on who is where. heck, I follow this stuff and I get confused about who is in what league when. But that will pass and in a couple of years, the ACC will be on in prime time and the AAC will be on at 10:30 on Wednesday morning (not really so don't go positing that ESPN doesn't carry games then. For all you literalists, its an exaggeration to make a point.) and that will impact recruiting. Being in a mid-major conference has lots and lots of things that hold you back. Money. Rankings. RPI. Tournament seeding. Scheduling (don't be shocked when in a couple of years the UNCs and Kentuckys of the world say we'll play you 2 games. 1 at our place and the 2nd in a neutral site.).

And one more Denny Crum-Pitino comment. Louisville went to the tournament in the tournament in 1999 and 2000 under Crum. They missed in his last year. Pitino came and they returned in 2003 and 2004 but didn't get out of the first weekend. In 2005 they got to the Final Four, but that was aided by a one-and done and some recruiting based on the knowledge they were Big East bound.That was one of those punchers chance Final Fours where life worked out. It really took 4 more (Big East) years before his "righting the ship" took hold and Louisville was truly back. Conferences matter. they might not matter immediately. But over time they just do. they effect everything about a program from SOS to seeding to chance to make a deep run and ultimately recruiting. and while our standards aren't high for basketball players, you do have to meet some minimal standards that are more than Memphis (where you can submit an ap online and be told immediately if you're in...) so we can't recruit a parking meter with a nice j.

 

[upstater]

maybe its true if we still had a hall of fame head coach. We don't. And I agree that at the moment recruits are likely to be a bit confused on who is where. heck, I follow this stuff and I get confused about who is in what league when. But that will pass and in a couple of years, the ACC will be on in prime time and the AAC will be on at 10:30 on Wednesday morning (not really so don't go positing that ESPN doesn't carry games then. For all you literalists, its an exaggeration to make a point.) and that will impact recruiting. Being in a mid-major conference has lots and lots of things that hold you back. Money. Rankings. RPI. Tournament seeding. Scheduling (don't be shocked when in a couple of years the UNCs and Kentuckys of the world say we'll play you 2 games. 1 at our place and the 2nd in a neutral site.).

And one more Denny Crum-Pitino comment. Louisville went to the tournament in the tournament in 1999 and 2000 under Crum. They missed in his last year. Pitino came and they returned in 2003 and 2004 but didn't get out of the first weekend. In 2005 they got to the Final Four, but that was aided by a one-and done and some recruiting based on the knowledge they were Big East bound.That was one of those punchers chance Final Fours where life worked out. It really took 4 more (Big East) years before his "righting the ship" took hold and Louisville was truly back. Conferences matter. they might not matter immediately. But over time they just do. they effect everything about a program from SOS to seeding to chance to make a deep run and ultimately recruiting. and while our standards aren't high for basketball players, you do have to meet some minimal standards that are more than Memphis (where you can submit an ap online and be told immediately if you're in...) so we can't recruit a parking meter with a nice j.

Mid-majors didn't have ESPN contracts like the AAC does. Mid-majors didn't have 12 games shown on NATIONAL CBS TV. The exposure is there, despite what you say.

What you wrote about Louisville makes no sense. They were getting the talent before the BE was a whisper. Bender, Dean, Garcia, Myles were not chopped liver.

 

[aceboon]

Neither of these points are true. Their best players were Francisco Garcia, who was in his final year as a junior, Taquan Dean, a junior, and Ellis Myles, also a junior. Not even sure what one and done you were referring to, Pitino hasn't even had a one and done during his time at Louisivlle to my knowledge. You've skipped the strawman tactics and gone straight to outright lying, applaud yourself.

maybe its true if we still had a hall of fame head coach. We don't. And I agree that at the moment recruits are likely to be a bit confused on who is where. heck, I follow this stuff and I get confused about who is in what league when. But that will pass and in a couple of years, the ACC will be on in prime time and the AAC will be on at 10:30 on Wednesday morning (not really so don't go positing that ESPN doesn't carry games then. For all you literalists, its an exaggeration to make a point.) and that will impact recruiting. Being in a mid-major conference has lots and lots of things that hold you back. Money. Rankings. RPI. Tournament seeding. Scheduling (don't be shocked when in a couple of years the UNCs and Kentuckys of the world say we'll play you 2 games. 1 at our place and the 2nd in a neutral site.).

And one more Denny Crum-Pitino comment. Louisville went to the tournament in the tournament in 1999 and 2000 under Crum. They missed in his last year. Pitino came and they returned in 2003 and 2004 but didn't get out of the first weekend. In 2005 they got to the Final Four, but that was aided by a one-and done and some recruiting based on the knowledge they were Big East bound.That was one of those punchers chance Final Fours where life worked out. It really took 4 more (Big East) years before his "righting the ship" took hold and Louisville was truly back. Conferences matter. they might not matter immediately. But over time they just do. they effect everything about a program from SOS to seeding to chance to make a deep run and ultimately recruiting. and while our standards aren't high for basketball players, you do have to meet some minimal standards that are more than Memphis (where you can submit an ap online and be told immediately if you're in...) so we can't recruit a parking meter with a nice j.

 

[Husky25]

I'm getting off the Louisville / UConn comparison train. It was proven yesterday that Louisville's (mis)fortunes in the 90's had little, if anything, to do with conference affiliation. You can think otherwise, but the facts simply do not support it. A better comparison for Louisville (off the top of my head, and not digging too deeply) is Wake Forest/South Carolina and Dave Odom. Both Wake and SoCar. have been in power house conferences since the 50's.

What makes what Calhoun said any less true if he is not coaching UConn? Recruits care about getting to the NBA in 4 years or (hopefully) less and Ollie has a wealth of personal knowledge on this subject. He can point to the fact that he spent 14 years in the Association with 10 different teams. So not only does he know how to get there, he know how to stay against all odds. with the Draft salary slots, the latter is probably more important at this point than just getting there, as the real money comes in contract #2. There are no more Glenn Robinson's getting max deals right out of college.

UConn still has the exposure. What they don't have is a portion of an obscenely lucrative TV contract. But at the end of the day, recruits don't care about how much a school gets from their TV contract. They care that the school is on TV. UConn will be on TV.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

For a guy who spent an entire off-season posting hundreds of times voicing his negative opinion of coach Ollie being able to handle the reigns, you would think you'd learn your lesson abd just shut up and see what happens.

I'm a realist and recognize the difficulties ahead, but , we fcking get it, give it a rest. holy fcking Christ.