Nerlens Noel cleared by NCAA...

[upstater]

I guess that shows just how bogus...but again, it isn't hard to comply even without fake classes and fake grades. Nobody has accused Syracuse of offering Fake classes and grades...they complied. Nobody accused Ohio State or Indiana of having fake classes and fake grades, they both complied. UConn took its eye off the ball, mainly because hathaway was inept and calhoun didn't care, and it now is paying the price. On the other hand, Noel apparently didn't violate NCAA rules. So what do you want them to do, hold him out because some UConn fans think he did based on zero evidence? Last year the NCAA did in fact rule against Kentucky and Kanter. So were they out to get kentucky? They ruled against providence on someone, can't remember the name...were they out to get Ed Cooley, and if so, why on earth were they?

It's all fake. Don't you get it?
Harvard and Cal Tech. They can't seem to meet the APR rules. What does that tell you?

 

[WestHartHusk]

It's all fake. Don't you get it?
Harvard and Cal Tech. They can't seem to meet the APR rules. What does that tell you?

Kentucky is an underrated academic institution?

 

[freescooter]

It's all fake. Don't you get it?
Harvard and Cal Tech. They can't seem to meet the APR rules. What does that tell you?

come on uppy...Harvard and Cal Tech (though I don't believe APR applies to Cal Tech) actually expect their players to attend and pass classes. If UConn didn't make the APR for that reason, I'd be thrilled. That isn't why we failed...That is a simple minded comparison.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Calipari being named head coach at UConn? I don't even want to contemplate that one. I have no Idea what I'd do.

In response to TheChamps990411, why on earth would any Husky fan be jealous of Kentucky or the squid? 3 NCAA championships in 13 years vs. 1. How dare you call out your Boneyard Brethren. I'm not sure if you know this, though it has been mentioned on here numerous times, but many of us have disliked Calipari going back to his UMass days. No jealousy here, my friend.

 

[upstater]

come on uppy...Harvard and Cal Tech (though I don't believe APR applies to Cal Tech) actually expect their players to attend and pass classes. If UConn didn't make the APR for that reason, I'd be thrilled. That isn't why we failed...That is a simple minded comparison.

Those schools failed to meet APR standards. You argue that schools should try to meet these standards no matter the methods.

 

[freescooter]

I didn't say that. i said it isn't hard to meet the standards if you want to meet them. Calhoun and Hathaway couldn't be bothered. Obviously Harvard doesn't care that much. they are more concerned with other things like how many Nobel winners they produce not how many NBA draft picks they have.. UConn does care supposedly but they didn't bother to try and meet the standard. Again I don't believe they apply in D3.

 

[upstater]

I didn't say that. i said it isn't hard to meet the standards if you want to meet them. Calhoun and Hathaway couldn't be bothered. Obviously Harvard doesn't care that much. they are more concerned with other things like how many Nobel winners they produce not how many NBA draft picks they have.. UConn does care supposedly but they didn't bother to try and meet the standard. Again I don't believe they apply in D3.

You've totally twisted it.
The reason Cal Tech and Harvard don't meet the APR is because meeting the standards damages education.
Stop beating around the bush and say it.

 

[TheChamps990411]

I think you really got it wrong using this one as an example. I hate Coach K, but if he were to suddenly coach UConn, I would change my tune as you imply. I hate Pitino, but if he were to coach UConn I would be a very conflicted individual, not sure which way I would go. If Calipari coached UConn my currently growing discontent with college basketball would reach a tipping point and I would stop watching, without being the least conflicted.

i support the name on the front of the jersey regardless of who the coach is. id have no problem with calipari as head coach. in case some of you forgot coach calhoun was no choir boy either. get off your high horses.

 

[diggerfoot]

i support the name on the front of the jersey regardless of who the coach is. id have no problem with calipari as head coach. in case some of you forgot coach calhoun was no choir boy either. get off your high horses.

Wow! I did not consider myself to be on a "high horse," but I'll get on one now. By all accounts Calhoun was in fact a "choir boy" in the sense that he cared about individuals as well as basketball players. Very few schools, if any, have the track record of former players staying in the "family" because of the love they felt. Coach K seems to have this concern for the individual; Calipari seems to be simply all about himself, period. Pitino seems to be all about himself as well, but with enough ambiguity that I still might support him as our coach, thus most people would not consider my position as being on a nonnegotiable "high horse."

If you consider Calhoun's imperfections the same as Calipari and Pitino that's just dumb, though it puts you in a great position to resent people for being on their high horse.

 

[freescooter]

You've totally twisted it.
The reason Cal Tech and Harvard don't meet the APR is because meeting the standards damages education.
Stop beating around the bush and say it.

But not having players go to class or bother completing courses so maybe they can land a job in the NBA D-league helps education...

 

[upstater]

But not having players go to class or bother completing courses so maybe they can land a job in the NBA D-league helps education...

Hmmm, so Ted Taigen ran a dept. in which players didn't go to class. That's what you're saying? Have any evidence for that?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I'm far from a Freescooter apologist, but the idea that anyone can even try to justify UConn's embarrassing performance under the APR at this point is beyond me. Say it "damages education," whatever that means .... say anything you want, but for ****'s sake look at the list of schools that couldn't comply.

Every single basketball mill in America seemed to figure out a way to deal with the APR except UConn. That's not reflective of some pie in the sky philosophical split regarding the education of college athletes, it's malpractice. That's it.

 

[Scot-e]

All threads that start with Kentucky turn into hot steamy piles.

 

[upstater]

I'm far from a Freescooter apologist, but the idea that anyone can even try to justify UConn's embarrassing performance under the APR at this point is beyond me. Say it "damages education," whatever that means .... say anything you want, but for ****'s sake look at the list of schools that couldn't comply.

Every single basketball mill in America seemed to figure out a way to deal with the APR except UConn. That's not reflective of some pie in the sky philosophical split regarding the education of college athletes, it's malpractice. That's it.

Harvard and Cal tech couldn't comply.

How did UConn APR figure it out the last 3 years? How did Kentucky figure it out?

Ever ask those questions.

If you think I'm the only one that noticed the APR is a huge step backwards in education, you haven't been paying attention.

Many people mention this privately, some go off publicly on APR, like Jay Bilas.

Like me he think APR is a huge step backward.

Have you really not been following this?

 

[Huskymaniac]

Hmmm, so Ted Taigen ran a dept. in which players didn't go to class. That's what you're saying? Have any evidence for that?

He doesn't. I actually have evidence that they DID attend classes...REAL classes...not fabricated UNC classes but classes that satisfy the core requirements of just about every degree the university issues. My wife was a graduate assistant at UConn and had basketball players in the classes she taught. That was a "few" years ago but well within the Calhoun era. Our players probably take fake classes now because that is what you have to do in order to have MOST highly ranked D1 athletes stay eligible according to the APR requirements. Anyone that thinks UNC is alone is hopelessly delusional. UNC did what they did for a reason and every other highly successful D1 program that accepts marginal students have the same reason. Cal Tech and Harvard failed to meet the APR because their students also take real classes. To say they failed to meet the APR because they didn't care about it is handwaiving Stop at its best. Caring is required but not a sufficient condition. And the argument that schools that "care" somehow force their students to continue to take classes when they know they are leaving is just crazy. Do people really think UConn said, don't worry about going to classes guys. We won't meet the APR requirements but that's OK. We just want you to focus on your transfer or D-league tryouts or draft workouts. Yeah, the squid "strongly encourages" his kids to stay in classes to the end but Calhoun just said, duck-it...who cares. Good god, turn in your UConn Nation fan card right now!!!

What exactly do you self-loathing folks think was THE MAIN ISSUE between Hathaway and Calhoun? Seriously, step back from the ledge and just THINK about it for a second. Look at every part of the big picture and piece them together in the only way that makes sense.

And can someone see if BigEarMcCrackhead is another alias used by our friend Clothy? I bet it is. There is no way this dope isn't a closet umess fan........

 

[StongingtonBob]

^^ You gotta be kidding me!

 

[StongingtonBob]

^^ You gotta be kidding me!

 

[Huskymaniac]

^^ You gotta be kidding me!

Too funny. I get this image of a zit faced unbathed troll-like figure, flies circling his body, hitting the refresh button on this thread waiting...HOPING...for me to comment on it so he could post..."SEE, HE IS OBSESSED WITH JOHN CALIPARI...JUST LOOK AT HIS AVATAR!" You are so my little bitch........

 

[TheChamps990411]

Wow! I did not consider myself to be on a "high horse," but I'll get on one now. By all accounts Calhoun was in fact a "choir boy" in the sense that he cared about individuals as well as basketball players. Very few schools, if any, have the track record of former players staying in the "family" because of the love they felt. Coach K seems to have this concern for the individual; Calipari seems to be simply all about himself, period. Pitino seems to be all about himself as well, but with enough ambiguity that I still might support him as our coach, thus most people would not consider my position as being on a nonnegotiable "high horse."

If you consider Calhoun's imperfections the same as Calipari and Pitino that's just dumb, though it puts you in a great position to resent people for being on their high horse.

"Calipari seems to be simply all about himself, period"

So youve met him? Did you play for him? Did he recruit you? If not, then how do you know who he is as a person? You dont. these are all your opinion and shared by many but it doesnt make any of it true the same way the perception shared by many outside of connecticut that jim calhoun is a cheat who doesnt care about academics just wins and losses.
Im not going to get into a debate on who is a better person or who cares more about their players. the point i was making is
1. Uconn fans spend way to much time and energy on hating calipari and whatever program he may be at and whether or not they would like to admit it it does have something to do with jealousy. sure there are other reasons but jealousy plays a part. If he were coaching at prairie view and winning 5 games a year no one would care. but since he is pulling in recruiting classes that we can only dream of as fans and hes won a national title and seems set up to possibly win more some fans just have to try to knock his success by trying to invalidate it with criticism.
I personally couldnt care less if he wins or loses my only concern is uconn. And although it would never happen but hypothetically speaking if he were to become head coach at uconn he would have my full support.
and

 

[caw]

"Calipari seems to be simply all about himself, period"

So youve met him? Did you play for him? Did he recruit you? If not, then how do you know who he is as a person? You dont. these are all your opinion and shared by many but it doesnt make any of it true the same way the perception shared by many outside of connecticut that jim calhoun is a cheat who doesnt care about academics just wins and losses.
Im not going to get into a debate on who is a better person or who cares more about their players. the point i was making is
1. Uconn fans spend way to much time and energy on hating calipari and whatever program he may be at and whether or not they would like to admit it it does have something to do with jealousy. sure there are other reasons but jealousy plays a part. If he were coaching at prairie view and winning 5 games a year no one would care. but since he is pulling in recruiting classes that we can only dream of as fans and hes won a national title and seems set up to possibly win more some fans just have to try to knock his success by trying to invalidate it with criticism.
I personally couldnt care less if he wins or loses my only concern is uconn. And although it would never happen but hypothetically speaking if he were to become head coach at uconn he would have my full support.
and

I met him three times when he was at UMass. He didn't coach me, he didn't recruit me. He was a from my somewhat limited interaction with him, all in non-basketball settings.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Harvard and Cal tech couldn't comply.

How did UConn APR figure it out the last 3 years? How did Kentucky figure it out?

Ever ask those questions.

If you think I'm the only one that noticed the APR is a huge step backwards in education, you haven't been paying attention.

Many people mention this privately, some go off publicly on APR, like Jay Bilas.

Like me he think APR is a huge step backward.

Have you really not been following this?

I'm not going to get in a drawn out debate with you, other than to note that whether or not the APR is a "huge step backwards in education" or whether Jay Bilas has spoken out against the APR are completely besides the point. The point is that UConn was one of among a handful of schools - and not one other prominent basketball school - that found itself unable to comply with the rules. Period. I would hope you're not trying to explain away the embarrassment of being relegated to the company of the also-rans who found themselves similarly out in the cold as some kind of principled stand by UConn.

 

[Donyell]

Man, I still have this mental picture in my mind of that press conference after a Temple-Umass game when Chaney wanted to kick Cal's ass and had to be restrained. Ol' John was playing for keeps and that would have been nice to see. Calapari on his ass.

 

[upstater]

I'm not going to get in a drawn out debate with you, other than to note that whether or not the APR is a "huge step backwards in education" or whether Jay Bilas has spoken out against the APR are completely besides the point. The point is that UConn was one of among a handful of schools - and not one other prominent basketball school - that found itself unable to comply with the rules. Period. I would hope you're not trying to explain away the embarrassment of being relegated to the company of the also-rans who found themselves similarly out in the cold as some kind of principled stand by UConn.

The other schools sufficiently downgraded their educational mission, and they did it swiftly enough. About the time this was going down with the bad scores at UConn, Ted Taigen resigned his position, but did not retire. He was a faculty member. I have no idea why he did that, but he was replaced by a professional staffer, not a faculty member. At that point, UConn's scores started rising. Susan Herbst is on record that the changes included mandating 3 short summer classes and intersession classes at Christmas. This keeps the players eligible but does little toward helping them proceed toward a degree. That's good, because there is absolutely nothing in the APR that has anything to do with graduation or graduation rates. Take several short intersession courses (that obviously do not help you advance toward your major) and maintain eligibility. In other words, make college a total sham. Harvard doesn't make its APR score because it doesn't go along with the sham. Neither does Cal Tech. As for UConn, they did it another way under Taigen--a faculty member--and got low scores. They changed under the new director--a non-faculty member--and are getting higher scores. If you think that means things have improved when it comes to academics, you're deluded. Essentially you're arguing that UConn's ability to participate in the NCAA's public relations project was not sufficiently rigorous.

Personally, I prefer the UNC approach where you just make scores up and send them to the NCAA. At least they are being blatantly direct about the whole enterprise.

 

[upstater]

He doesn't. I actually have evidence that they DID attend classes...REAL classes...not fabricated UNC classes but classes that satisfy the core requirements of just about every degree the university issues. My wife was a graduate assistant at UConn and had basketball players in the classes she taught. That was a "few" years ago but well within the Calhoun era. Our players probably take fake classes now because that is what you have to do in order to have MOST highly ranked D1 athletes stay eligible according to the APR requirements. Anyone that thinks UNC is alone is hopelessly delusional. UNC did what they did for a reason and every other highly successful D1 program that accepts marginal students have the same reason. Cal Tech and Harvard failed to meet the APR because their students also take real classes. To say they failed to meet the APR because they didn't care about it is handwaiving bull**** at its best. Caring is required but not a sufficient condition. And the argument that schools that "care" somehow force their students to continue to take classes when they know they are leaving is just crazy. Do people really think UConn said, don't worry about going to classes guys. We won't meet the APR requirements but that's OK. We just want you to focus on your transfer or D-league tryouts or draft workouts. Yeah, the squid "strongly encourages" his kids to stay in classes to the end but Calhoun just said, duck-it...who cares. Good god, turn in your UConn Nation fan card right now!!!

What exactly do you self-loathing folks think was THE MAIN ISSUE between Hathaway and Calhoun? Seriously, step back from the ledge and just THINK about it for a second. Look at every part of the big picture and piece them together in the only way that makes sense.

And can someone see if BigEarMcCrackhead is another alias used by our friend Clothy? I bet it is. There is no way this dope isn't a closet umess fan........

As I said, I had absolutely no inside sources, but I noted Taigen's resignation coincided with the bad scores.

I also know that the chances of these kids attending classes in the spring is minimal at best. I know that from first hand experience. It doesn't happen. AT ANY SCHOOL. The NCAA should force schools to accept 4 year schollies, up entrance requirements, and allow less than half-time status for students in the Spring. It should also give athletes more support beyond their 4 years (maybe an extra year or two of scholarship for players who want it because it's harder and harder for regular students to graduate in 4 years these days). That would mean the schools actually care about education.

 

[ctchamps]

The other schools sufficiently downgraded their educational mission, and they did it swiftly enough. About the time this was going down with the bad scores at UConn, Ted Taigen resigned his position, but did not retire. He was a faculty member. I have no idea why he did that, but he was replaced by a professional staffer, not a faculty member. At that point, UConn's scores started rising. Susan Herbst is on record that the changes included mandating 3 short summer classes and intersession classes at Christmas. This keeps the players eligible but does little toward helping them proceed toward a degree. That's good, because there is absolutely nothing in the APR that has anything to do with graduation or graduation rates. Take several short intersession courses (that obviously do not help you advance toward your major) and maintain eligibility. In other words, make college a total sham. Harvard doesn't make its APR score because it doesn't go along with the sham. Neither does Cal Tech. As for UConn, they did it another way under Taigen--a faculty member--and got low scores. They changed under the new director--a non-faculty member--and are getting higher scores. If you think that means things have improved when it comes to academics, you're deluded. Essentially you're arguing that UConn's ability to participate in the NCAA's public relations project was not sufficiently rigorous.

Personally, I prefer the UNC approach where you just make scores up and send them to the NCAA. At least they are being blatantly direct about the whole enterprise.

And that's the problem that people who have attacked UConn don't understand. Many of the other programs had gamed the system and the only reason UConn didn't was because of the animosity between JC and Hathaway and JC and Emmert. UConn will never have that problem again, but I'm more embarrassed that we are joining the crowd than that we did things the "right" way in the past even if it bit us in the butt.

I won't condemn UConn until people can convince me that UNC is not the norm. There is no evidence that the NCAA confirms the results that schools send them. UNC was exposed by somebody who talked and not by the NCAA confirming data sent to them. The NCAA does not verify anything which is why UNC got away with things. Look at how long the Miami fiasco went on and it was only serendipity, a separate case by the FBI, that the NCAA learned of the improprieties.

It is my opinion that the real scandal is that there is no standardizing what constitutes a degree or a credible college course and that there is no verification by the NCAA of the results sent by the universities. I think some of the people embarrassed by the results of the UConn's men's bb team should insist on some modicum of standardization of courses and some verification of data by the NCAA. If the data under this type of scrutiny demonstrates universities are giving athletes a proper education then you and I are wrong. But without this scrutiny, the criticism of JC over the APR matter is lynch mob justice.